Gog-Magog invasion timing

[GEOINTAnalyst]

Damascus was conquered once already when Assyria invaded Syria and northern Israel in 734 BC. Some Bible teachers say that the destruction of Damascus has already happened and that it is not a future event. However Damascus was not made a "Ruinous Heap" then. The Prophet Jeremiah also predicted that Damascus would be destroyed. Jeremiah gave his prophecy about one hundred years after Assyria conquered Damascus so the destruction of Damascus is definitely a yet future event again led by the Assyrians or better the remnant of them. Today is modern Turkey, parts of Iran and most of Egypt.

 

[sawas]

Damascus was conquered once already when Assyria invaded Syria and northern Israel in 734 BC. Some Bible teachers say that the destruction of Damascus has already happened and that it is not a future event. However Damascus was not made a "Ruinous Heap" then. The Prophet Jeremiah also predicted that Damascus would be destroyed. Jeremiah gave his prophecy about one hundred years after Assyria conquered Damascus so the destruction of Damascus is definitely a yet future event again led by the Assyrians or better the remnant of them. Today is modern Turkey, parts of Iran and most of Egypt.

Thanks for the response, but even given the past (734 BC) Assyrian attack, I'm not following how/why you believe that they must be involved in the yet future destruction of Damascus. Are you referring to a specific scripture that you've not cited?

 

[Basscat]

I am not. Some guy I was listening to was, though.

You know how sometimes you hear a claim, and know instinctively that there's something not right about it, even if the person making the claim is using compelling argumebts backed up with evidence?

That is what I am investigating.

I believe that forming an opinion to quickly on such a complex matter as this only leads to problems.
I believe that God's word is true, the answers are there. Were the ones that have to study to show ourselves approved and when you think you have it figured out. Start over again. I'm sure you missed something.
Brother Chuck

 

[Basscat]

Damascus was conquered once already when Assyria invaded Syria and northern Israel in 734 BC. Some Bible teachers say that the destruction of Damascus has already happened and that it is not a future event. However Damascus was not made a "Ruinous Heap" then. The Prophet Jeremiah also predicted that Damascus would be destroyed. Jeremiah gave his prophecy about one hundred years after Assyria conquered Damascus so the destruction of Damascus is definitely a yet future event again led by the Assyrians or better the remnant of them. Today is modern Turkey, parts of Iran and most of Egypt.

Be assured Damascus is going up in smoke and never to be rebuilt. I personally think that it will happen during the Psalm 83 war. Just before the Trib. Creating a need for the treaty.

 

[GEOINTAnalyst]

I believe that forming an opinion to quickly on such a complex matter as this only leads to problems.
I believe that God's word is true, the answers are there. Were the ones that have to study to show ourselves approved and when you think you have it figured out. Start over again. I'm sure you missed something.
Brother Chuck

Sorry posted this under wrong person have not been able to figure out to delete it

Israel's Neighbors
Psalm 83, Amos 1, Micah 5:5-6 and Isaiah 13-23 prophesy against Israel's neighbors including Edom (southern Jordan), Moab (south-central Jordan), Ammon (central Jordan), Philistia (Gaza), Tyre (Lebanon), Assyria (Iraq), Damascus, Egypt and Arabia. In the days of old most of those place were under the Assyrian Empire before they finally fell. This is why I believe Damascus will fall again by the remnants of the old Assyrian Empire, this time it will be a big pile of rocks. Damascus is the oldest continually inhabited city on planet Earth, and has yet to be made a "Ruinous Heap", Damascus has been conquered several times, but people always have lived there.

 

[GEOINTAnalyst]

Thanks for the response, but even given the past (734 BC) Assyrian attack, I'm not following how/why you believe that they must be involved in the yet future destruction of Damascus. Are you referring to a specific scripture that you've not cited?

Israel's Neighbors
Psalm 83, Amos 1, Micah 5:5-6 and Isaiah 13-23 prophesy against Israel's neighbors including Edom (southern Jordan), Moab (south-central Jordan), Ammon (central Jordan), Philistia (Gaza), Tyre (Lebanon), Assyria (Iraq), Damascus, Egypt and Arabia. In the days of old most of those place were under the Assyrian Empire before they finally fell. This is why I believe Damascus will fall again by the remnants of the old Assyrian Empire, this time it will be a big pile of rocks. Damascus is the oldest continually inhabited city on planet Earth, and has yet to be made a "Ruinous Heap", Damascus has been conquered several times, but people always have lived there.

 

[Basscat]

Sorry posted this under wrong person have not been able to figure out to delete it

Israel's Neighbors
Psalm 83, Amos 1, Micah 5:5-6 and Isaiah 13-23 prophesy against Israel's neighbors including Edom (southern Jordan), Moab (south-central Jordan), Ammon (central Jordan), Philistia (Gaza), Tyre (Lebanon), Assyria (Iraq), Damascus, Egypt and Arabia. In the days of old most of those place were under the Assyrian Empire before they finally fell. This is why I believe Damascus will fall again by the remnants of the old Assyrian Empire, this time it will be a big pile of rocks. Damascus is the oldest continually inhabited city on planet Earth, and has yet to be made a "Ruinous Heap", Damascus has been conquered several times, but people always have lived there.

There only two players in this theater that have nuclear weapons, besides USA. That's Russia and Israel

 

[GEOINTAnalyst]

There only two players in this theater that have nuclear weapons, besides USA. That's Russia and Israel

The U.S. currently has an estimated 50 of its nuclear weapons deployed to Turkey as part of the NATO Western military alliance's nuclear sharing policy. The weapons, located at Incirlik Base, are under U.S. control, but some have raised concerns as to their safety there amid regional instability and political differences.

Ankara recently defied Washington's warnings by accepting Moscow's state-of-the-art S-400 surface-to-air missile system (in July 2019), which the Turkish Defense Ministry (Erdogan) said its personnel had started training on in the Russian town of Gatchina.

President Donald Trump hit back at Turkey's acquisition in July by suspending the country's planned participation in the advanced F-35 fifth-generation fighter jet program, but Russian President Vladimir Putin responded by showing off his nation's own fifth-generation Su-57 and modernized Su-35 during Erdogan's visit to the International Aviation and Space Show (MAKS) at the Zhukovsky International Airport outside Moscow. After inspecting the Su-57, Erdogan asked if it was for sale and Putin said "yes, you can buy it" as they both laughed.

 

[Basscat]

The U.S. currently has an estimated 50 of its nuclear weapons deployed to Turkey as part of the NATO Western military alliance's nuclear sharing policy. The weapons, located at Incirlik Base, are under U.S. control, but some have raised concerns as to their safety there amid regional instability and political differences.

Ankara recently defied Washington's warnings by accepting Moscow's state-of-the-art S-400 surface-to-air missile system (in July 2019), which the Turkish Defense Ministry (Erdogan) said its personnel had started training on in the Russian town of Gatchina.

President Donald Trump hit back at Turkey's acquisition in July by suspending the country's planned participation in the advanced F-35 fifth-generation fighter jet program, but Russian President Vladimir Putin responded by showing off his nation's own fifth-generation Su-57 and modernized Su-35 during Erdogan's visit to the International Aviation and Space Show (MAKS) at the Zhukovsky International Airport outside Moscow. After inspecting the Su-57, Erdogan asked if it was for sale and Putin said "yes, you can buy it" as they both laughed.

The U.S. currently has an estimated 50 of its nuclear weapons deployed to Turkey as part of the NATO Western military alliance's nuclear sharing policy. The weapons, located at Incirlik Base, are under U.S. control, but some have raised concerns as to their safety there amid regional instability and political differences.

Ankara recently defied Washington's warnings by accepting Moscow's state-of-the-art S-400 surface-to-air missile system (in July 2019), which the Turkish Defense Ministry (Erdogan) said its personnel had started training on in the Russian town of Gatchina.

President Donald Trump hit back at Turkey's acquisition in July by suspending the country's planned participation in the advanced F-35 fifth-generation fighter jet program, but Russian President Vladimir Putin responded by showing off his nation's own fifth-generation Su-57 and modernized Su-35 during Erdogan's visit to the International Aviation and Space Show (MAKS) at the Zhukovsky International Airport outside Moscow. After inspecting the Su-57, Erdogan asked if it was for sale and Putin said "yes, you can buy it" as they both laughed.

It's rumored that the were moved last year. I hope that it's true.

 

[GEOINTAnalyst]

Bump

 

[GEOINTAnalyst]

It's rumored that the were moved last year. I hope that it's true.

To fly them out of Incirlik would be to mark the de facto end of the Turkish-American alliance. The 39 Operations Support Squadron leads world-class airfield & support operations to orchestrate and control US, Turkish, and coalition forces operating at Incirlik Airbase in the execution of full-spectrum airpower and nuclear deterrent operations. The weapons are still there. The 50 bombs are for use by US jets, even though Turkey never allowed the US Air Force to permanently base fighter-squadrons at Incirlik. Jets would have to fly in during a crisis to pick up the weapons or they would have to be shipped to other locations before use. As a result, the nuclear posture at Incirlik has been more a storage site than a fighter-bomber base during the past two decades. See
https://www.incirlik.af.mil/About-U...icle/724847/39th-operations-support-squadron/

Plus it is not necessary to use a nuke when you can use a few Thermobaric Weapons and accomplish the same thing which is a type of explosive that uses oxygen from the surrounding air to generate a high-temperature explosion. In practice, the blast wave typically produced by such a weapon is of a significantly longer duration than that produced by a conventional condensed explosive. The fuel-air explosive (FAE) is one of the best-known types of thermobaric weapons. According to a U.S. Central Intelligence Agency study, "the effect of an FAE explosion within confined spaces is immense. Those near the ignition point are obliterated. Those at the fringe are likely to suffer many internal, and thus invisible injuries, including burst eardrums and crushed inner ear organs, severe concussions, ruptured lungs and internal organs, and possibly blindness." Another Defense Intelligence Agency document speculates that because the "shock and pressure waves cause some damage to brain tissue ... it is possible that victims of FAEs are not rendered unconscious by the blast, but instead suffer for several seconds or minutes while they suffocate".

The US has MOAB (Mother of all Bombs) which we dropped in Afghanistan on an ISIS held town and it obliterated it, the Russians has FOAB (Father of all Bombs) basically the same thing only a little bigger 4 times stronger to be exact.

 

[sawas]

Israel's Neighbors
Psalm 83, Amos 1, Micah 5:5-6 and Isaiah 13-23 prophesy against Israel's neighbors including Edom (southern Jordan), Moab (south-central Jordan), Ammon (central Jordan), Philistia (Gaza), Tyre (Lebanon), Assyria (Iraq), Damascus, Egypt and Arabia. In the days of old most of those place were under the Assyrian Empire before they finally fell. This is why I believe Damascus will fall again by the remnants of the old Assyrian Empire, this time it will be a big pile of rocks. Damascus is the oldest continually inhabited city on planet Earth, and has yet to be made a "Ruinous Heap", Damascus has been conquered several times, but people always have lived there.

I'm sorry, I probably should have been more clear above. I do see why one would think that a remnant of the Assyrian empire might be involved (among others). Rather, what is eluding me is your reasoning behind your earlier assertion (in Post #61) that the destruction of Damascus would result from an attack led by this remnant of the Assyrian empire. Even making that case, I would have to assume that you'd presently be looking at non-state proxies that seem to have run of the territory.

 

[Basscat]

To fly them out of Incirlik would be to mark the de facto end of the Turkish-American alliance. The 39 Operations Support Squadron leads world-class airfield & support operations to orchestrate and control US, Turkish, and coalition forces operating at Incirlik Airbase in the execution of full-spectrum airpower and nuclear deterrent operations. The weapons are still there. The 50 bombs are for use by US jets, even though Turkey never allowed the US Air Force to permanently base fighter-squadrons at Incirlik. Jets would have to fly in during a crisis to pick up the weapons or they would have to be shipped to other locations before use. As a result, the nuclear posture at Incirlik has been more a storage site than a fighter-bomber base during the past two decades. See
https://www.incirlik.af.mil/About-U...icle/724847/39th-operations-support-squadron/

Plus it is not necessary to use a nuke when you can use a few Thermobaric Weapons and accomplish the same thing which is a type of explosive that uses oxygen from the surrounding air to generate a high-temperature explosion. In practice, the blast wave typically produced by such a weapon is of a significantly longer duration than that produced by a conventional condensed explosive. The fuel-air explosive (FAE) is one of the best-known types of thermobaric weapons. According to a U.S. Central Intelligence Agency study, "the effect of an FAE explosion within confined spaces is immense. Those near the ignition point are obliterated. Those at the fringe are likely to suffer many internal, and thus invisible injuries, including burst eardrums and crushed inner ear organs, severe concussions, ruptured lungs and internal organs, and possibly blindness." Another Defense Intelligence Agency document speculates that because the "shock and pressure waves cause some damage to brain tissue ... it is possible that victims of FAEs are not rendered unconscious by the blast, but instead suffer for several seconds or minutes while they suffocate".

The US has MOAB (Mother of all Bombs) which we dropped in Afghanistan on an ISIS held town and it obliterated it, the Russians has FOAB (Father of all Bombs) basically the same thing only a little bigger 4 times stronger to be exact.

Thank-you Sir for your service. Glad to know that there's someone keeping an eye on things.
Never served directly but, I've been apart of the manufacturing of a lot of their hahardware, until I retired. Best part of my career is knowing that I gave my best, for the best.

 

[Basscat]

To fly them out of Incirlik would be to mark the de facto end of the Turkish-American alliance. The 39 Operations Support Squadron leads world-class airfield & support operations to orchestrate and control US, Turkish, and coalition forces operating at Incirlik Airbase in the execution of full-spectrum airpower and nuclear deterrent operations. The weapons are still there. The 50 bombs are for use by US jets, even though Turkey never allowed the US Air Force to permanently base fighter-squadrons at Incirlik. Jets would have to fly in during a crisis to pick up the weapons or they would have to be shipped to other locations before use. As a result, the nuclear posture at Incirlik has been more a storage site than a fighter-bomber base during the past two decades. See
https://www.incirlik.af.mil/About-U...icle/724847/39th-operations-support-squadron/

Plus it is not necessary to use a nuke when you can use a few Thermobaric Weapons and accomplish the same thing which is a type of explosive that uses oxygen from the surrounding air to generate a high-temperature explosion. In practice, the blast wave typically produced by such a weapon is of a significantly longer duration than that produced by a conventional condensed explosive. The fuel-air explosive (FAE) is one of the best-known types of thermobaric weapons. According to a U.S. Central Intelligence Agency study, "the effect of an FAE explosion within confined spaces is immense. Those near the ignition point are obliterated. Those at the fringe are likely to suffer many internal, and thus invisible injuries, including burst eardrums and crushed inner ear organs, severe concussions, ruptured lungs and internal organs, and possibly blindness." Another Defense Intelligence Agency document speculates that because the "shock and pressure waves cause some damage to brain tissue ... it is possible that victims of FAEs are not rendered unconscious by the blast, but instead suffer for several seconds or minutes while they suffocate".

The US has MOAB (Mother of all Bombs) which we dropped in Afghanistan on an ISIS held town and it obliterated it, the Russians has FOAB (Father of all Bombs) basically the same thing only a little bigger 4 times stronger to be exact.

https://www.***********/watch?v=C8ONj2vBKmE

I saw a report years ago when the Dupont chemist developed the explosive especial for the Afghan cave dwellers.
Bomb goes in one end then a mile away smoke comes out the other. The shockwave has to be tremendous.

 

[GEOINTAnalyst]

I'm sorry, I probably should have been more clear above. I do see why one would think that a remnant of the Assyrian empire might be involved (among others). Rather, what is eluding me is your reasoning behind your earlier assertion (in Post #61) that the destruction of Damascus would result from an attack led by this remnant of the Assyrian empire. Even making that case, I would have to assume that you'd presently be looking at non-state proxies that seem to have run of the territory.

In any empire of old they did not have set boundaries for their nation as we do now, it was more of a loosely confederated territory held together by military might, Most of the people in that part of the world are still very tribal in their thinking, They consider themselves as Turkomen, Pahsto, Yazidi, Irdo, Amorite, Kurds, etc. before any allegiance to any Nation/State and most of these people want their own territory. Most of these people were once under the Assyrian empire. Right now Syria has cut them off from their tribal relatives and are attacking them. Now we have the Russians in the middle supplying both sides with weapons. One reason the US is pulling out of there, a huge cesspool of infighting which will only lead to death and destruction.

 

[sawas]

In any empire of old they did not have set boundaries for their nation as we do now, it was more of a loosely confederated territory held together by military might, Most of the people in that part of the world are still very tribal in their thinking, They consider themselves as Turkomen, Pahsto, Yazidi, Irdo, Amorite, Kurds, etc. before any allegiance to any Nation/State and most of these people want their own territory. Most of these people were once under the Assyrian empire. Right now Syria has cut them off from their tribal relatives and are attacking them. Now we have the Russians in the middle supplying both sides with weapons. One reason the US is pulling out of there, a huge cesspool of infighting which will only lead to death and destruction.

Yes, but the list of nations included in Psalm 83 include the remnants of the ancient Phoenician, Philistine, Ammonite, Moabite, Midianite, and Ishmaelite peoples, in addition to Ephraim and Assyria. My question stands, why do you assert that this confederation (if that's what it is) would be led by the remnants of the Assyrian people? You've make a lot of good and interesting points, but I don't ever seem to get an answer to that question. It might be a correct assessment, but I'd really be interested in understanding that part of your argument. Seriously.

 

[athenasius]

In any empire of old they did not have set boundaries for their nation as we do now, it was more of a loosely confederated territory held together by military might, Most of the people in that part of the world are still very tribal in their thinking, They consider themselves as Turkomen, Pahsto, Yazidi, Irdo, Amorite, Kurds, etc. before any allegiance to any Nation/State and most of these people want their own territory. Most of these people were once under the Assyrian empire. Right now Syria has cut them off from their tribal relatives and are attacking them. Now we have the Russians in the middle supplying both sides with weapons. One reason the US is pulling out of there, a huge cesspool of infighting which will only lead to death and destruction.

I think the reasoning that the Assyrians are involved because these nations were part of the Assyrian empire at some point is a bit shaky. If that is true, then the Greek empire under Alexander should be considered, or the Romans or the Parthians or some of the other empires that have held sway over the area-- the Ottomans, or the Seleucids.

It's going beyond the scripture there to create a connection and just introduces a bit of confusion.

It's not necessary because the Bible gives the ancient names and explains the reasons for the different prophecies happening.

Personally I see Damascus destruction and Gog and Magog as two separate events - The word ruin is translated from the Hebrew word "Mappalah" which according to Strong’s is only used 3 times in the bible all by Isaiah. The word just mean make a ruin and if one observes the word according to the context it appears to mean piles of rubble like when a building or city wall is destroyed. Contextually only the Assyrians can be responsible for making Damascus a ruinous heap in Isaiah 17. So we now need to know who were the Assyrians - Assyria was the region located in the ancient Near East which, under the Neo-Assyrian Empire, reached from Mesopotamia (modern-day Iraq) through Asia Minor (modern Turkey) and down through Egypt. Russia is not part of Assyria but is part of Magog, hence two completely separate events.

With Russia and Turkey attacking each other I look for Russia to pull out most of it's military soon since the conflict is very unpopular with the Russian citizenry and Putin popularity is going downhill because of Syria. Russia needs the Turkey Pipeline to go through so Russia can send it's natural gas across Turkey to Europe. So I believe Russia will back off leaving Turkey to deal with Syria. The two countries, rival empires since the 16th century and adversaries in multiple wars in the 19th century, have in recent years shown a capacity for brinkmanship followed by de-escalation. Russia has also sold S-400 Air Defense system to Turkey which upset NATO since Turkey is a part of NATO.

I think we all agreed that Damascus' destruction and Gog Magog are separate. The only link might be as a cause-- some aspects of the scriptures involving Damascus may allow it's destruction to be the trigger event. Could be separated by days or years, but some good prophecy scholars have pointed out that Damascus fall may trigger that hook in the jaw.

The wording of Ezek 38:4, suggests that Gog is in the process of turning back to the north, homewards, when God turns him back around to invade.

 

[athenasius]

I saw a report years ago when the Dupont chemist developed the explosive especial for the Afghan cave dwellers.
Bomb goes in one end then a mile away smoke comes out the other. The shockwave has to be tremendous.

That must have been a satisfying day of work for the chemists considering the deadly nature of the Muslim terrorist Afghan cave dwellers. Creating a big bang and a certain effect on the enemy morale!

 

[sawas]

I think the reasoning that the Assyrians are involved because these nations were part of the Assyrian empire at some point is a bit shaky. If that is true, then the Greek empire under Alexander should be considered, or the Romans or the Parthians or some of the other empires that have held sway over the area-- the Ottomans, or the Seleucids.

It's going beyond the scripture there to create a connection and just introduces a bit of confusion.

It's not necessary because the Bible gives the ancient names and explains the reasons for the different prophecies happening.



I think we all agreed that Damascus' destruction and Gog Magog are separate. The only link might be as a cause-- some aspects of the scriptures involving Damascus may allow it's destruction to be the trigger event. Could be separated by days or years, but some good prophecy scholars have pointed out that Damascus fall may trigger that hook in the jaw.

The wording of Ezek 38:4, suggests that Gog is in the process of turning back to the north, homewards, when God turns him back around to invade.

Good points, that last observation is very interesting to consider. While I've been aware of that wording, I'd never thought through the implication. To give @GEOINTAnalyst his due, he did earlier suggest a plausible chain of events that would result in Russia's withdrawal from Syria, leaving Turkey free to do their worst, as it were. Whether or not Turkey would have the desire to move on to Damascus or not is worth thinking about. Since I continue to expect an eventual reconciliation between Russia and Turkey, they seem to have several steps to make.

Also - I'm still working on detailed responses to your earlier post. I just keep getting drawn away from it .

 

[athenasius]

To give @GEOINTAnalyst his due, he did earlier suggest a plausible chain of events that would result in Russia's withdrawal from Syria, leaving Turkey free to do their worst, as it were. Whether or not Turkey would have the desire to move on to Damascus or not is worth thinking about. Since I continue to expect an eventual reconciliation between Russia and Turkey, they seem to have several steps to make.

Sorry, I didn't read @GEOINTAnalyst whole train of thought as thoroughly as he deserved. Yes, Turkey is a key player in here-- as they continue to move away from being an ally of the West, as they pivot towards Russia as an ally in their quest to regain their past glories in the Ottoman empire Caliphate, leading the Muslims around the world.