Gog-Magog invasion timing

sawas

Well-Known Member
@athenasius - OK, I'm making some progress on this "homework assignment". Whew, lot's to process here, but I'm slowly building up my understanding of some elements that I've had too little exposure to as yet. Anyway...here's a start.

Brace for confusion and murk. If you or anybody else wants to play with this jigsaw puzzle I’m all ears.
Braced and ready to play. :wild :thumbup And, yeah, for sure this is complicated stuff.

I don’t fully rule out the destruction of Damascus being a trigger to the Ezekiel 38 war.

The reason I say that still might be related is there is one spot in Isaiah 17: 7-8. It says in that day man will have regard for his maker and his eyes will look to the holy one of Israel. He will not have regard for the altars, the work of his hands, nor will he look to that which his fingers have made, even the Asherim and incense stands.

When you see that kind of wording it suggests that Israel is starting to turn towards God and that is the purpose of Ezekiel 38&39 as well as the Tribulation. So if we use the dispensational principle (that a lot of prophecy teachers use) that God’s program is either on the church or on Israel then we are looking at a period of time when the church is absent or that we are very close to the rapture.
So, OK, yes, some good insights there, I think. Let's ponder it for a moment.

I'm still struggling for context related to two prior phrases "the glory of the children of Israel" and "the glory of Jacob" (Isaiah 17:3-4). This was, in part, the reason I'd earlier expressed curiosity about how some of this might be related to the Northern/Southern Kingdom divisions. Clearly, the Ephraim reference of Isaiah 17:3 would provide additional support. Either way, the following references to "gleaning grapes", et al, - which precedes your area of focus - makes me wonder about remnants of the Northern Kingdom being in the mix and who might be subject to the impulse to turn to "the holy one of Israel".

In regard to your other point (that such would logically occur only after the church would be removed), that makes some sense to me as well.

General Question - Who, in your opinion, is the "he" in the last verse? (Isaiah 17:14).

Edit Note - Also, in regard to issues relating to the Northern Kingdom, I spent a little time looking at how these passages (Psalm 83, Isaiah 17, Jeremiah 49, Zechariah 9) appear to pertain to geographies that (more-or-less) conform to Isreal's biblical boundaries. Of course, Salus has previously noted the obvious proximity of these combatants, but it seems curious and possible that these conflicts relate to a fulfillment of God's promise to Israel regarding the whole of their territory. Just throwing that out for consideration.

As for the psalm 83 thesis of Bill Salus yes I think there is a STRONG connection.

3 passages that seem connected. Isaiah 17, Jeremiah 49 & the LAST HALF of Ezekiel 32. Plus Amos 1:3-5 and Zechariah 9:1-8. I’m using Damascus as my key. Isaiah 17 deals with the destruction of Damascus as well as Jeremiah. Jeremiah also deals with the destruction of Elam and Damascus. Ezekiel 32 has the destruction of Elam as well as a number of Psalm 83 combatants.
OK, this is the part that's been causing much of my delay. I'm not entirely certain that I've digested it all, but here are a few thoughts.
  • Ezekiel 32:17-32 appears (to my reading) to be a "post-game wrap-up" of sorts...perhaps almost an epitaph for Egypt, representing a (more-or-less) complete listing of those with the common fate of Sheol (the grave, the pit). These include victims from what, from what I've been accustomed to think, would include Ez 38/39 and (presumably prior events of) Psalm 83.
  • To your (anyone's) knowledge, is there a prophecy related to the final destruction of Egypt?
  • The Assyrian presence in Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 32:17-32 along with Elam in Jeremiah 49 and Ezekiel 32:17-32 appear also to "blur" the distinction with Ezekiel 38. These northern places extend eastward, ostensibly, into Persia/Iran. Still evaluating that.
  • Observation - Most of the places noted in Zech 9:1 lie within the (biblical) boundaries of Israel. These would include the northern areas of Phoenicia/Lebanon, Ephraim (inside modern Israel), and Philistia/Gaza/So. Canaan.
(Note: in a subsequent post, I'll attempt to provide a table showing the people and places noted in each of these passages.)

so Ezekiel 32:17-32 is my connection to the Psalm 83.

CAUTION: first off before running with this I should caution that I do NOT know if these were fulfilled in the past in someway that prevents them being connected just by being neighbours in Jeremiah 49, and repeating the destruction of Damascus & Elam. (South western Iran, shores of the Persian Gulf). So I may be using puzzle pieces that belong to some other prophetic picture by accident.

They do seem to connect the destruction of Damascus in Jeremiah 49 versus 23 through 27 with the destruction of the area of Iran called Elam. Verses 34-39.

and they might well BOTH be fulfilled in the tribulation. During the wars of the antichrist.
Yes, I (too) want to take care that we're only dealing with unfulfilled prophesy here, another reason for some of my delay. As noted above, I share the same (potential) confusion regarding Elam. Let's save this for future discussion.

Read Ezekiel 32:17-32. That passage seems related to the passage in Jeremiah 49. You will see Elam mentioned in both. And in the Ezekiel passage it gives the reason for the destruction. It is terrorism. I got onto this passage through Bill Salus....

if Ezekiel is the key that holds the whole thing together then it’s a possibility that the destruction of the area of Iran called Elam and Damascus are related to terrorism that somehow manages to involve Egypt and Jordan in some war that begins over terrorism
.
Yes, this would clear up some of the confusion I expressed above. How (and when) is Egypt involved exactly?

Yet the Damascus passages which also include Amos 1:3-5 and Zechariah 9:1-8 are about plunder— and that is similar to Ezekiel 38 again. Along with the way it’s worded about God using the events to turn Israel back to Him. And they also mention Gaza & Lebanon via the Tyre & Sidon mentions.

Once I took Ezekiel 32 as the key- the other nations mentioned next to Damascus & Elam look an awful lot like Bill Salus’s Psalm 83 players.
We'll see if my table can be presented in the following post...perhaps that will illuminate this.

Thanks for the homework assignment. I'll keep working through it. ::)
 
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sawas

Well-Known Member
As noted in the prior post, these are the peoples and locations identified for judgement/destruction in the discussed passages. Also added those in Ezekiel 38 for contrast. To the best of my ability, they are organized geographically.

Obviously, these are open for discussion, suggested revisions, et al.

Ps 83
Is 17
Jer 49
Zech 9:1-8
Ez 32:17-32
Ez 38-39
To the North
Syria
X​
Damascus​
X​
X​
Hamath (city in west central Syria)​
X​
X​
Arpad (City in NW Syria)​
X​
Phoenician States
Gebal (Lebanon)​
X​
Tyre (Lebanon)​
X​
X​
Sidon (Lebanon)​
X​
X​
Assyria (extending into W. Iraq)
X​
X​
Elam (Persia/Iran)
X​
X​
X​
Gog - Prince of Rosh, Meshech, Tubal
X​
Meshech & Tubal (Turkey?)​
X​
X​
Togarmah (Anatolia)​
X​
Inside (Modern) Israel / Canaan
Ephraim
X​
Kishon​
X​
En-dor (Galilee)​
X​
Hazor (Upper Galilee)​
X​
Jabin (King of Hazor)​
X​
Sisera (Commander of King Jabin of Hazor)​
X​
Ashkelon ?​
X​
Asdod ?​
X​
Philistia (inc. Gaza)
X​
X​
Ai (Canaan, West Bank)​
X​
Amalek (Sons of Esau) Southern Canaan​
X​
Ekron (SW Canaan)​
X​
To the East
Ammon
X​
X​
Rabbah (Amonite city)​
X​
Heshbon (Ammonite/Jordan)​
X​
Moab (South of Ammon)
X​
Aroer (or possible alternate area near to Damascus?)​
X​
To the South
Edom (Transjordan) immediately south of Judah
X​
X​
X​
Teman (Edomite clan at Petra)​
X​
Dedan (wandering people of Arabia, with t/w Sheba)​
X​
Observer​
Esau (projenitor of the Edomites)​
X​
Bozrah (Jordan city, north Edom)​
X​
Ishmaelites (North/NW Arabia)
X​
Hagrites (Sons of Agar, associated with Ishmaelites​
X​
Kedar (wandering tribe of Arabia?​
X​
Midian (NW Arabia)​
X​
Oreb & Zeeb (Midianite Princes)​
X​
Zebah & Zalmunna (Midianite Kings)​
X​
Egypt
X​
Etheopia
X​
Put (Libya)
X​
 
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athenasius

Well-Known Member
As noted in the prior post, these are the peoples and locations identified for judgement/destruction in the discussed passages. Also added those in Ezekiel 38 for contrast. To the best of my ability, they are organized geographically.

Obviously, these are open for discussion, suggested revisions, et al.

Ps 83
Is 17
Jer 49
Zech 9:1-8
Ez 32:17-32
Ez 38-39
To the North
Syria
X​
Damascus​
X​
X​
Hamath (city in west central Syria)​
X​
X​
Arpad (City in NW Syria)​
X​
Phoenician States
Gebal (Lebanon)​
X​
Tyre (Lebanon)​
X​
X​
Sidon (Lebanon)​
X​
X​
Assyria (extending into W. Iraq)
X​
X​
Elam (Persia/Iran)
X​
X​
X​
Gog - Prince of Rosh, Meshech, Tubal
X​
Meshech & Tubal (Turkey?)​
X​
X​
Togarmah (Anatolia)​
X​
Inside (Modern) Israel / Canaan
Ephraim
X​
Kishon​
X​
En-dor (Galilee)​
X​
Hazor (Upper Galilee)​
X​
Jabin (King of Hazor)​
X​
Sisera (Commander of King Jabin of Hazor)​
X​
Ashkelon ?​
X​
Asdod ?​
X​
Philistia (inc. Gaza)
X​
X​
Ai (Canaan, West Bank)​
X​
Amalek (Sons of Esau) Southern Canaan​
X​
Ekron (SW Canaan)​
X​
To the East
Ammon
X​
X​
Rabbah (Amonite city)​
X​
Heshbon (Ammonite/Jordan)​
X​
Moab (South of Ammon)
X​
Aroer​
X​
To the South
Edom (Transjordan) immediately south of Judah
X​
X​
X​
Teman (Edomite clan at Petra)​
X​
Dedan (wandering people of Arabia, with t/w Sheba)​
X​
Observer​
Esau (projenitor of the Edomites)​
X​
Bozrah (Jordan city, north Edom)​
X​
Ishmaelites (North/NW Arabia)
X​
Hagrites (Sons of Agar, associated with Ishmaelites​
X​
Kedar (wandering tribe of Arabia?​
X​
Midian (NW Arabia)​
X​
Oreb & Zeeb (Midianite Princes)​
X​
Zebah & Zalmunna (Midianite Kings)​
X​
Egypt
X​
Etheopia
X​
Put (Libya)
X​
That is ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL AND THANK YOU! Very very helpful. I’m having some health problems so I might be late in answering but this is outstanding. Thank you.
 

sawas

Well-Known Member
That is ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL AND THANK YOU! Very very helpful. I’m having some health problems so I might be late in answering but this is outstanding. Thank you.
You're welcome. Take your time and be well. I worried too that you might think I'd left you hanging, but working through this stuff takes time and, well, life is happening too. :)
 
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GEOINTAnalyst

Well-Known Member
Rev 20 7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

So this battle is after the 1000 year reign of Christ
 

sawas

Well-Known Member
Rev 20 7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

So this battle is after the 1000 year reign of Christ
Yes, I think this was discussed earlier in this thread in regard to the various appearances of the demonic "personage" of Gog, concluding in the final appearance in Rev 20. I'll peak back and check.

OK, yes, @cavalier973 stated in the OP and subsequent posts that he was looking for clarification on this issue (confusion between Ezekiel 38 and Revelation 20) in evaluating claims made by a third party.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Coming on briefly (testing out the new HEPA filter in the study, so trying to be brief) but you brought up some delightful and interesting observations that are irresistable
@athenasius - I'm still struggling for context related to two prior phrases "the glory of the children of Israel" and "the glory of Jacob" (Isaiah 17:3-4). This was, in part, the reason I'd earlier expressed curiosity about how some of this might be related to the Northern/Southern Kingdom divisions. Clearly, the Ephraim reference of Isaiah 17:3 would provide additional support. Either way, the following references to "gleaning grapes", et al, - which precedes your area of focus - makes me wonder about remnants of the Northern Kingdom being in the mix and who might be subject to the impulse to turn to "the holy one of Israel".
Look at the passage as a see saw, a back and forth comparison -- God is addressing Israel but first dealing with Damascus. Wiping them out, and their surrounding "strong cities". Then God is addressing Israel in correction and pruning. It is a passage of contrasts between Damascus and Israel. Much like Jeremiah's question in Jer 49:11 where he asks about the city of Jerusalem in contrast to the smoking ruins of Damascus. It ends with the comment that this is what happens to those who plunder Israel.

Ok I am struck by the repetition, 3X no less!!! in Isaiah 17: 3-4. The phrases "The fortified city will disappear from Ephraim", then "the remnant of Aram will be like the glory of the Israelites" and then "In that day the glory of Jacob will fade; the fat of his body will waste away" and if you consider the Valley of the Rephaim, a 4RTH time no less in verse 5. That remnant of Aram-- Aram is Syria as a whole, I think, so there are a few left in Syria-- but Damascus and the strong cities belonging to it are gone. So this remnant will be like the rather feeble and tarnished glory of Israel at this point. Damascus is gone, Jerusalem survives, but Syria is almost destroyed leaving a few. And in Israel, the northern parts are decimated, leaving a gleaning.

It seems to me that Isaiah is using a sing song repetition comparing and contrasting Israel (these all belong to Israel) with the territory and fate of Damascus and region of Syria. Even though Israel takes a serious hit, they survive, but as for Damascus and surrounding area "This is the portion of those who loot us, the lot of those who plunder us."

Important point about Ephraim and the Valley of the Rephaim:

Israel's NORTHERN DEFENCES in the area of Ephraim are described as disappearing, if fortified cities means defence positions. These are IMPORTANT as they are just above the territory of Judah and Benjamin, and just above JERUSALEM. BELOW the area around the Sea of Galilee from looking at the maps online. This is the area that is over run in the fight. THIS is the area of the Valley of the Rephaim which today is the site of a main railway connecting Tel Aviv to Jerusalem! Wikipedia says this:"The Tel Aviv – Jerusalem railway, originally known as the Jaffa–Jerusalem railway, uses the entire length of the Valley of the Rephaim from Jerusalem to its junction with Nahal Sorek."

This appears to be an invasion for plunder that Syria's leaders in Damascus plan, but the IDF retaliates and causes the destruction (not God but "the Israelites" in v 9-- contrast that with the situation in Ez 38&39) although God is behind the whole process in order to bring Israel back from their unbelief. Damascus gets as far as the Valley of the Rephaim-- that railway zone, before they are decimated. The whole thing takes place in a 24 hour period or less. V 14 in the evening sudden terror, before morning they are gone.

It doesn't seem to imply that Israel means to do away with Damascus quite so completely. That isn't the IDF style. They usually hit back just enough to make their enemy back off. They don't want to wipe their enemies off the map. Just make them behave. So something goes sideways and Damascus is destroyed. God is in ultimate control of these events, not the IDF and certainly not Syria.

Israel is pictured as gleanings remaining after the grain is harvested, or after the olives are harvested. A few remain. Contrasted to the utter desolation of Damascus and region. If the cities of Aroer are as Grotius here https://biblehub.com/commentaries/isaiah/17-2.htm sees them, they are suburbs of Damascus or nearby area. V 2 and V 9 chime in and repeat V 1-- the utter desolation, that these cities are in, a heap of ruins, where flocks will dwell without fear of man, a place abandoned to the wild growth of thickets and undergrowth.


In regard to your other point (that such would logically occur only after the church would be removed), that makes some sense to me as well.
There is another repetition 3X of "in that day" in v 4, 7 and 9. It is tied together as the day that Damascus is destroyed, but it immediately turns to the problem with Israel that the LORD sees and is referencing here in verse 10&11. In v 7&8 we see Israel's attention turn to God their maker. V 9 is an interspersed comment on the abandoned, people free zone of Damascus so the people in v 7&8 are Israel. And in 10& 11 God is explaining to Israel, what just happened to them. That v 9 is part of the back and forth, it belongs to the contrast of Damascus and her "strong cities" -- having become a place of total desolation. IN THAT DAY is often referring to the time of Jacobs trouble, when God's attention is once again devoted to Israel. I'm not saying it HAS to be after we are gone, but it might fit best in that after the Rapture period whether after the Rapture means right into the Tribulation right away or whether it may have a period of time between the Rapture and the Tribulation which kicks off with the signing of the covenant not the Rapture. Not sure, but leaving that open.

Verses 10 & 11 are really horrifying and instructive too.
10 You have forgotten God your Savior;
you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress.
Therefore, though you set out the finest plants
and plant imported vines,
11 though on the day you set them out, you make them grow,
and on the morning when you plant them, you bring them to bud,
yet the harvest will be as nothing
in the day of disease and incurable pain.

And again, the reference is to Israel doing things on her own strength and initiative, possibly "plant IMPORTED vines" is indicating planting imported religions-- I'm thinking of Pope Francis's new religion he is cooking up at the Vatican, the allowing of Muslim stuff, and other Imported vines.

For a long time, prophecy teachers have been thinking that possibly that final peace covenant will involve a deal where if the Jews get to build their Temple on the Temple Mount, while in exchange the other religions (trample underfoot) get their piece of Jerusalem, or the Mount or both. The gentiles have been trampling both underfoot for millennia now, and the process continues. The implication is that Israel imported these vines though, so unlike the last 2K years, this is something Israel invites in.

This "planting" process, will have quick growth (that Temple is already prefabricated, ready to GO IF that is the price of peace under the AC for example) BUT

The HARVEST will be as nothing (Israel thought to benefit, but doesn't get any benefit) and here's the kicker that references the Tribulation period again (IN THE DAY OF DISEASE AND INCURABLE PAIN). That to me speaks of the Tribulation period (not any current plague).

HOWEVER if it is NOT in the Tribulation period, it is certainly stage setting towards it. I don't know what the IMPORTED VINES are at all. I'm guessing here as a possible fit.

It might also mean any of the many peace processes that Israel has allowed that give away the Land that GOD owns, and gave to them (but forbade them from selling it or giving it away). Imported vines might be the "Palestinian" Arabs who came from their own lands surrounding Israel and have set down roots.

The CONTRAST to this state of forgetting about God, and planting stuff that doesn't belong in Israel was introduced above in v 7&8

In that day people will look to their Maker
and turn their eyes to the Holy One of Israel.
8 They will not look to the altars,
the work of their hands,
and they will have no regard for the Asherah poles
and the incense altars their fingers have made.

Which suggests that no matter which side of the Rapture or Tribulation that this destruction of Damascus lands on, it's part and parcel of Israel turning BACK to the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, their MAKER!

General Question - Who, in your opinion, is the "he" in the last verse? (Isaiah 17:14).
14 And behold at eveningtide trouble; and before the morning he is not. This is the portion of them that spoil us, and the lot of them that rob us.
In that back and forth this would indicate Damascus as the "he" that tried to spoil Israel and rob them. The passage begins with Damascus and ends with the affirmation, that even if Israel is troubled (to lead them back to their God) those that try to rob them will be no more. The HE is the one who invaded, the one who started the fight, in other words Damascus.

And if Damascus IS the trigger for the Gog Magog invasion of Ez 38 & 39, then this is a direct warning to Russia and allies that are about to descend on Israel AGAIN with intent to rob them. In that invasion, Israel seems unable to come to their own defense and nobody else steps up, so GOD is shown as their defender, provider and protector. And again IF Damascus is the trigger or comes just before the Gog Magog thing, it would be in keeping with God's character to have provided fair warning to all those who want to plunder HIS LAND. AND it would also serve to show Israel that they can't do it themselves-- they nearly wipe themselves out in the Damascus situation. They are completely unable to respond to the invasion force of Ezekiel 38 & 39

Edit Note - Also, in regard to issues relating to the Northern Kingdom, I spent a little time looking at how these passages (Psalm 83, Isaiah 17, Jeremiah 49, Zechariah 9) appear to pertain to geographies that (more-or-less) conform to Isreal's biblical boundaries. Of course, Salus has previously noted the obvious proximity of these combatants, but it seems curious and possible that these conflicts relate to a fulfillment of God's promise to Israel regarding the whole of their territory. Just throwing that out for consideration.
It's why I think they might actually be related, or the same event.


OK, this is the part that's been causing much of my delay. I'm not entirely certain that I've digested it all, but here are a few thoughts.
  • Ezekiel 32:17-32 appears (to my reading) to be a "post-game wrap-up" of sorts...perhaps almost an epitaph for Egypt, representing a (more-or-less) complete listing of those with the common fate of Sheol (the grave, the pit). These include victims from what, from what I've been accustomed to think, would include Ez 38/39 and (presumably prior events of) Psalm 83.
  • To your (anyone's) knowledge, is there a prophecy related to the final destruction of Egypt?
  • The Assyrian presence in Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 32:17-32 along with Elam in Jeremiah 49 and Ezekiel 32:17-32 appear also to "blur" the distinction with Ezekiel 38. These northern places extend eastward, ostensibly, into Persia/Iran. Still evaluating that.
  • Observation - Most of the places noted in Zech 9:1 lie within the (biblical) boundaries of Israel. These would include the northern areas of Phoenicia/Lebanon, Ephraim (inside modern Israel), and Philistia/Gaza/So. Canaan.
(Note: in a subsequent post, I'll attempt to provide a table showing the people and places noted in each of these passages.).
Your table is EXCELLENT and I find it VERY helpful to see at a glance.

I like the post game wrap up idea. Yes that is exactly what it is. The common thread is terrorism "causing terror in the land of the living". While Egypt isn't accused of that in this passage, it seems like they get sucked in. The Jordanian elements always interest me. One of the related passages has Edom involved in terrorism, but it was another passage, can't remember which for the time being.

Think of the Assyrian as more mid to northern Syria and Iraq in it's ancient boundaries. Blurs boundaries but not too much overlap with Persia.

I agree about the biblical boundaries of Israel. This war or wars might involve (as Bill suggests) Israel gaining land as God has arranged whenever anyone invades them and they must fight for their lives.


Yes, I (too) want to take care that we're only dealing with unfulfilled prophesy here, another reason for some of my delay. As noted above, I share the same (potential) confusion regarding Elam. Let's save this for future discussion.
Ok Elam is interesting but I find it helpful to keep Elam somewhat separated from Persia (Iran). It's part of modern day Iran, but the fact that it has well known boundaries in the past and even today it is separated geographically by the mountain range rising from the shores of the Gulf, makes it a separate entity, but tied up with Persia (Iran). Stuff that happens in Elam like Vegas, might stay in Elam while Elam's refugees are scattered to the 4 winds.


Yes, this would clear up some of the confusion I expressed above. How (and when) is Egypt involved exactly?

We'll see if my table can be presented in the following post...perhaps that will illuminate this.
Yes, final destruction of Egypt IS in the Bible, but it's a 40 year disaster, not final doom sort of thing. it's the Tower of Syene that Gary Stearman talks about here https://prophecywatchers.com/the-tower-of-syene-a-prophetic-wonder/ and that looks like it might be in the Tribulation period. Egypt survives and thrives in the Millennial Reign of Christ. Ken Johnson always uses the destruction of the Nile river as his snappy comeback to anyone suggesting we are in the Tribulation asking them if the Nile has run dry yet. Gary sheds light on just how that might happen.

I don't think that is the same event as the Tower of Syene thing that Ez 32 is referring to though.

That is another rabbit trail and maybe we should just open another thread for rabbit trails. We can drag stuff over thru quotes.

@cavalier973 Apologies for sidetracking your wonderful thread.
 
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Spartan Sprinter 1

Formerly known as Shaun
As noted in the prior post, these are the peoples and locations identified for judgement/destruction in the discussed passages. Also added those in Ezekiel 38 for contrast. To the best of my ability, they are organized geographically.

Obviously, these are open for discussion, suggested revisions, et al.

Ps 83
Is 17
Jer 49
Zech 9:1-8
Ez 32:17-32
Ez 38-39
To the North
Syria
X​
Damascus​
X​
X​
Hamath (city in west central Syria)​
X​
X​
Arpad (City in NW Syria)​
X​
Phoenician States
Gebal (Lebanon)​
X​
Tyre (Lebanon)​
X​
X​
Sidon (Lebanon)​
X​
X​
Assyria (extending into W. Iraq)
X​
X​
Elam (Persia/Iran)
X​
X​
X​
Gog - Prince of Rosh, Meshech, Tubal
X​
Meshech & Tubal (Turkey?)​
X​
X​
Togarmah (Anatolia)​
X​
Inside (Modern) Israel / Canaan
Ephraim
X​
Kishon​
X​
En-dor (Galilee)​
X​
Hazor (Upper Galilee)​
X​
Jabin (King of Hazor)​
X​
Sisera (Commander of King Jabin of Hazor)​
X​
Ashkelon ?​
X​
Asdod ?​
X​
Philistia (inc. Gaza)
X​
X​
Ai (Canaan, West Bank)​
X​
Amalek (Sons of Esau) Southern Canaan​
X​
Ekron (SW Canaan)​
X​
To the East
Ammon
X​
X​
Rabbah (Amonite city)​
X​
Heshbon (Ammonite/Jordan)​
X​
Moab (South of Ammon)
X​
Aroer​
X​
To the South
Edom (Transjordan) immediately south of Judah
X​
X​
X​
Teman (Edomite clan at Petra)​
X​
Dedan (wandering people of Arabia, with t/w Sheba)​
X​
Observer​
Esau (projenitor of the Edomites)​
X​
Bozrah (Jordan city, north Edom)​
X​
Ishmaelites (North/NW Arabia)
X​
Hagrites (Sons of Agar, associated with Ishmaelites​
X​
Kedar (wandering tribe of Arabia?​
X​
Midian (NW Arabia)​
X​
Oreb & Zeeb (Midianite Princes)​
X​
Zebah & Zalmunna (Midianite Kings)​
X​
Egypt
X​
Etheopia
X​
Put (Libya)
X​
An A for effort well done!!!!
 

GEOINTAnalyst

Well-Known Member
Personally I see Damascus destruction and Gog and Magog as two separate events - The word ruin is translated from the Hebrew word "Mappalah" which according to Strong’s is only used 3 times in the bible all by Isaiah. The word just mean make a ruin and if one observes the word according to the context it appears to mean piles of rubble like when a building or city wall is destroyed. Contextually only the Assyrians can be responsible for making Damascus a ruinous heap in Isaiah 17. So we now need to know who were the Assyrians - Assyria was the region located in the ancient Near East which, under the Neo-Assyrian Empire, reached from Mesopotamia (modern-day Iraq) through Asia Minor (modern Turkey) and down through Egypt. Russia is not part of Assyria but is part of Magog, hence two completely separate events.

With Russia and Turkey attacking each other I look for Russia to pull out most of it's military soon since the conflict is very unpopular with the Russian citizenry and Putin popularity is going downhill because of Syria. Russia needs the Turkey Pipeline to go through so Russia can send it's natural gas across Turkey to Europe. So I believe Russia will back off leaving Turkey to deal with Syria. The two countries, rival empires since the 16th century and adversaries in multiple wars in the 19th century, have in recent years shown a capacity for brinkmanship followed by de-escalation. Russia has also sold S-400 Air Defense system to Turkey which upset NATO since Turkey is a part of NATO.
 

sawas

Well-Known Member
Personally I see Damascus destruction and Gog and Magog as two separate events - The word ruin is translated from the Hebrew word "Mappalah" which according to Strong’s is only used 3 times in the bible all by Isaiah. The word just mean make a ruin and if one observes the word according to the context it appears to mean piles of rubble like when a building or city wall is destroyed. Contextually only the Assyrians can be responsible for making Damascus a ruinous heap in Isaiah 17. So we now need to know who were the Assyrians - Assyria was the region located in the ancient Near East which, under the Neo-Assyrian Empire, reached from Mesopotamia (modern-day Iraq) through Asia Minor (modern Turkey) and down through Egypt. Russia is not part of Assyria but is part of Magog, hence two completely separate events.

With Russia and Turkey attacking each other I look for Russia to pull out most of it's military soon since the conflict is very unpopular with the Russian citizenry and Putin popularity is going downhill because of Syria. Russia needs the Turkey Pipeline to go through so Russia can send it's natural gas across Turkey to Europe. So I believe Russia will back off leaving Turkey to deal with Syria. The two countries, rival empires since the 16th century and adversaries in multiple wars in the 19th century, have in recent years shown a capacity for brinkmanship followed by de-escalation. Russia has also sold S-400 Air Defense system to Turkey which upset NATO since Turkey is a part of NATO.
Interesting thoughts, although I'm not seeing the Assyrian link as you've described. Perhaps you could clarify on that point.

On the other hand, I too expect reconciliation between Russia and Turkey (at some point) and the reasons you offer could play a key role in that happening. Oh, this too (which I might give further consideration to when I'm able to respond to @athenasius): You just prompted me wonder whether or not there is any (scriptural) reason that the ruin/destruction of Damascus couldn't result from natural (i.e. earthquake) causes? Hmmm.
 
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