Gog dispensationalist vs other views

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
Sure no problem! I'll clarify:

Russia (believed to be Magog)
Iran (Persia)
Sudan (Cush)
Libya (Put)
Turkey (Gomer, Meschech, Tubal, and Beth Togarmah)
Possible other nations: the "-Ans" near russia and turkey, chad, and niger (as of right now)

Turkey-Russia-Iran have a partnership called the "Astana Group"

We are waiting more or less for Russia to officially join Turkey and Iran. Russia is still "Friendly" with Israel.

Syria
------------------------------------------
Turkey is in north syria battling the kurds
Russia is in damascus "guarding" the Golan Heights supposedly from Iran via militia that was fighting against Assad earlier (yet Russia supports Assad) - this creates the illusion of a buffer between Israel and Iran in Syria
Iran is in syria providing air support for Assad against Israel
Israel is bombing syrian targets that have anything to do with Iran (the russian presence in the area could make it quite a sensitive issue shortly)
Turkey, Iran, and Russia have called Israel's strikes "destabilizing" in Syria
---------------------------------------------

Lebanon
--------------
Israel has dispatched the IDF to the border to deal with the rising Hezzbollah threat (again).
In my opinion, this mini-war will serve as a distraction to allow time for the other nations to wrap up their wars and assemble.
This mini-war could last a while.
---------------

Turkey
---------
Turkey in the meanwhile is forging military agreements with surrounding Sunni-Islamic nations
This includes Libya, Chad, and Niger (both which are near Libya)
Turkey and Iran are in Iraq doing their deeds there as well.
Restored the Hagia Sophia to a mosque which scored HUGE points in the islamic world

Sudan
---------
Right now I believe it is Sudan's leadership that is questionable at the moment from what I read they want a better relation with Israel.
This could change as Turkey is providing military assistance to almost every surrounding nation.
----------

Other notes
---------------
Egypt's involvement in Libya could stall the process unless Russia and Turkey reach a ceasefire agreement in Libya.

Basically Turkey is supporting one side and Russia the opposing side (but this is the public front). To me this is well orchestrated geopolitical chess game by Putin and Erdogan.

Not to mention Erdogan is flaming mad over the Israeli/Greek/Cyprus pipeline that would cut Russia and Turkey out of the oil game for Europe.
Russia has been seen via satellite (and I verified this) of amassing tanks and such in Crimea (they think its for a Ukrainian invasion - I'm not so sure about that)

There's probably a few more details but that is the current summary as of 7/31/2020 - I was thinking about creating a running log of updates.
Things are shaping up quickly, but the big point is the Israeli / USA elections in november. Everyone involved in Ezekiel 38 is waiting to see what happens.
I'm glad you put friendly in quotations in regards to Russia towards Israel.
;)
They are slithering around and taking ground. Everyone else are just pawns to them.
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
There was an interview with Putin and they asked him "What is your fate sir, do you know?" His answer was "Only God knows our destiny -- yours and mine" this was 2017. I found that fascinating.
I wouldn't of expected that response from him.
We both know he is on a mission and very focused.
However , it will be a futile attempt regarding his decisive plans.
 

Anastacia

Well-Known Member
Sure no problem! I'll clarify:

Russia (believed to be Magog)
Iran (Persia)
Sudan (Cush)
Libya (Put)
Turkey (Gomer, Meschech, Tubal, and Beth Togarmah)
Possible other nations: the "-Ans" near russia and turkey, chad, and niger (as of right now)
Saudi Arabia (Sheba and Dedan)
UK (Tarshish - her young lions being the USA, Australia, Canada??)

Turkey-Russia-Iran have a partnership called the "Astana Group"

We are waiting more or less for Russia to officially join Turkey and Iran. Russia is still "Friendly" with Israel.

Syria
------------------------------------------
Turkey is in north syria battling the kurds
Russia is in damascus "guarding" the Golan Heights supposedly from Iran via militia that was fighting against Assad earlier (yet Russia supports Assad) - this creates the illusion of a buffer between Israel and Iran in Syria
Iran is in syria providing air support for Assad against Israel
Israel is bombing syrian targets that have anything to do with Iran (the russian presence in the area could make it quite a sensitive issue shortly)
Turkey, Iran, and Russia have called Israel's strikes "destabilizing" in Syria
---------------------------------------------

Lebanon
--------------
Israel has dispatched the IDF to the border to deal with the rising Hezzbollah threat (again).
In my opinion, this mini-war will serve as a distraction to allow time for the other nations to wrap up their wars and assemble.
This mini-war could last a while.
---------------

Turkey
---------
Turkey in the meanwhile is forging military agreements with surrounding Sunni-Islamic nations
This includes Libya, Chad, and Niger (both which are near Libya)
Turkey and Iran are in Iraq doing their deeds there as well.
Restored the Hagia Sophia to a mosque which scored HUGE support in the islamic world
Erdogan has stated he wants to restore the Ottoman empire and have an Islamic army
Erdogan has also stated that he would invade Israel and liberate the Al-Asqa

Sudan
---------
Right now I believe it is Sudan's leadership that is questionable at the moment from what I read they want a better relation with Israel.
This could change as Turkey is providing military assistance to almost every surrounding nation.
----------

Other notes
---------------
Egypt's involvement in Libya could stall the process unless Russia and Turkey reach a ceasefire agreement in Libya.

Basically Turkey is supporting one side and Russia the opposing side (but this is the public front). To me this is well orchestrated geopolitical chess game by Putin and Erdogan.

Not to mention Erdogan is flaming mad over the Israeli/Greek/Cyprus pipeline that would cut Russia and Turkey out of the oil game for Europe.
Russia has been seen via satellite (and I verified this) of amassing tanks and such in Crimea (they think its for a Ukrainian invasion - I'm not so sure about that)

There's probably a few more details but that is the current summary as of 7/31/2020 - I was thinking about creating a running log of updates.
Things are shaping up quickly, but the big point is the Israeli / USA elections in november. Everyone involved in Ezekiel 38 is waiting to see what happens.

Saudi Arabia (Sheba and Dedan) is boycotting Turkey (as scripture says they will eventually publicly object to the invasion but do nothing)

The USA does not come to aid Israel in this war. There are tons of theories of why this happens (civil war, covid lockdown, economic meltdown, war with china, EMP attack, martial law, maybe all of them lol)
Thank you so much for this concise and thorough rundown! You explained it in such a way that even I could understand! I hope you do keep a running log of updates and how that affects the Ezekiel 38 scenario.

I knew that pipeline was significant but didn't realize Turkey was also that angry about it, only that Russua is angry!

Interesting how you clarified the facade that Russia is friendly to Israel because I have been confused by that. Either Putin is two faced or indecisive about what move to make, but now I understand he's just being very manipulative.

So many entanglements and ulterior motives that it's difficult to see clearly, much less foresee how things could play out! I only know how it ends up but am curious about all the steps along the way. I love watching these players as it shows how close we are getting, but I really grasp His nearness when I have a better understanding of all these moving pieces!

So if you do post updates, please keep people like me in mind who really truly appreciate detailed explanations and why current happenings are significant to E38!

Thanks again!!
 

Uturn9319

Well-Known Member
Thank you so much for this concise and thorough rundown! You explained it in such a way that even I could understand! I hope you do keep a running log of updates and how that affects the Ezekiel 38 scenario.

I knew that pipeline was significant but didn't realize Turkey was also that angry about it, only that Russua is angry!

Interesting how you clarified the facade that Russia is friendly to Israel because I have been confused by that. Either Putin is two faced or indecisive about what move to make, but now I understand he's just being very manipulative.

So many entanglements and ulterior motives that it's difficult to see clearly, much less foresee how things could play out! I only know how it ends up but am curious about all the steps along the way. I love watching these players as it shows how close we are getting, but I really grasp His nearness when I have a better understanding of all these moving pieces!

So if you do post updates, please keep people like me in mind who really truly appreciate detailed explanations and why current happenings are significant to E38!

Thanks again!!
You're quite welcome! My hope is it doesn't slow down! Come quickly Lord Jesus!

Putin is ex-KGB, so he has the experience of manipulation on his side.
He also has a dual personality so he is able to balance both sides of the coin.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Thank you for posting this.
I'm not to familiar with Andy Woods , but he has an incredible resume.
And he is very much loved here.
My question about the two phase part theory of Ezk.38-39, is if it is placed (the latter 39) at mid-trib there wouldn't be enough time to burn the weapons from that "war".
This is one spot where I disagree with Andy Woods (I normally agree with his thinking) but I can't agree with the mid trib Ezek 38 GM war, because it needs 7 years burning.

Although in Andy's favour there is the verse about beating swords into plowshares during the millennial reign, so if they retool the weapons of war, burning the weapons might fit under that category too.
 

Lynn

Longing for Home
Although in Andy's favour there is the verse about beating swords into plowshares during the millennial reign, so if they retool the weapons of war, burning the weapons might fit under that category too.
Thanks, Athenasius, for mentioning this possibility. Never considered this before. The chronology of the 7 year burning of weapons has never been clear to me. I've done all sorts of mental (mathematical) gymnastics to try and figure out the sequence of events. So, our good friend, Andy, is of the opinion that the Gog-Magog War is mid-trib, eh? :hmmm I didn't realize that. I think the Magog War precedes the Time of Jacob's Trouble. God's focus is clearly back on Israel in MG War, as well as Trib. I wonder what is Andy's rationale for his position?
 

Uturn9319

Well-Known Member
Thanks, Athenasius, for mentioning this possibility. Never considered this before. The chronology of the 7 year burning of weapons has never been clear to me. I've done all sorts of mental (mathematical) gymnastics to try and figure out the sequence of events. So, our good friend, Andy, is of the opinion that the Gog-Magog War is mid-trib, eh? :hmmm I didn't realize that. I think the Magog War precedes the Time of Jacob's Trouble. God's focus is clearly back on Israel in MG War, as well as Trib. I wonder what is Andy's rationale for his position?
Perhaps he didn't factor in the building of the 3rd temple. Once you factor that in, I don't think you can place that war anywhere unless its pre-trib but after the rapture (although it could happen before the rapture and we could be raptured somewhere between the burning of the weapons or right before the revealing of AC).
The Temple Institute has been quoted that although there is support for a 3rd temple, it would really require a spiritual awakening or revival in Israel.
This war is what in my opinion causes the awakening and would be so destructive, it would be a perfect time for a AC peace covenant a little afterwards.

The Temple Institute has been also quoted it would take them approx 1 year to build the temple.


As far as the running log goes, I have some ideas to best do this. I'll keep everyone posted.

Blessings!
 
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Uturn9319

Well-Known Member
Perhaps he didn't factor in the building of the 3rd temple. Once you factor that in, I don't think you can place that war anywhere unless its pre-trib but after the rapture (although it could happen before the rapture and we could be raptured somewhere between the burning of the weapons or right before the revealing of AC).
The Temple Institute has been quoted that although there is support for a 3rd temple, it would really require a spiritual awakening or revival of Israel.
This war is what in my opinion causes the awakening and would be so destructive, it would be a perfect time for a AC peace covenant a little afterwards.

The Temple Institute has been also quoted it would take them approx 1 year to build the temple.


As far as the running log goes, I have some ideas to best do this. I'll keep everyone posted.

Blessings!
Another thing I'll be watching is the strategic city of Idlib in Syria. I viewed a presentation yesterday that said this would be the city that would allow Turkey and Russia to move their military through syria towards the golan heights. Well, turns out today I found this:

"The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights has monitored the entry of a new military column of Turkish forces via Kafr Losin crossing, north of Idlib.
The column consists of 35 armoured vehicles and trucks carrying logistical equipment, heading towards Turkish military bases in the area of “Putin-Erdogan
”.

"The number of military vehicles entered Syrian territory since the start of the new ceasefire has reached 4,990 in addition to thousands of Turkish soldiers. From February 2 to date, the number of Trucks and military vehicles that arrived in “de-escalation zone” rose to more than 8,325 Turkish trucks and military vehicles arrived in Syrian territory, carrying tanks, personnel carriers, armored vehicles and mobile bulletproof guard booths and military radars. While over 11,500 Turkish soldiers deployed in Idlib and Aleppo during this period."

Military buildup in a de-escalation zone? Tall Timbers... what do you think about this?
 

Uturn9319

Well-Known Member
Another thing I'll be watching is the strategic city of Idlib in Syria. I viewed a presentation yesterday that said this would be the city that would allow Turkey and Russia to move their military through syria towards the golan heights. Well, turns out today I found this:

"The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights has monitored the entry of a new military column of Turkish forces via Kafr Losin crossing, north of Idlib.
The column consists of 35 armoured vehicles and trucks carrying logistical equipment, heading towards Turkish military bases in the area of “Putin-Erdogan
”.

"The number of military vehicles entered Syrian territory since the start of the new ceasefire has reached 4,990 in addition to thousands of Turkish soldiers. From February 2 to date, the number of Trucks and military vehicles that arrived in “de-escalation zone” rose to more than 8,325 Turkish trucks and military vehicles arrived in Syrian territory, carrying tanks, personnel carriers, armored vehicles and mobile bulletproof guard booths and military radars. While over 11,500 Turkish soldiers deployed in Idlib and Aleppo during this period."

Military buildup in a de-escalation zone? Tall Timbers... what do you think about this?
Additionally, I had a conversation with a 40-year history professor last night. He is not a believer. I found a way to throw in Ezekiel 38 without mentioning it.

When I said that Israel signed a oil pipeline agreement with Cyprus and Greece, he immediately said to me, "That pipe is going to get sabatoged!"
When I mentioned the islamic coalition army he said "No one has been able to unite the arabs. I don't care if its Turkey, there will be infighting and fighting among themselves! It will be a disaster!"

Ezekiel 38:21 "I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Sovereign Lord. Every man’s sword will be against his brother."

I found it fascinating that an unbeliever would be able to make these observations based on no knowledge of the prophecy. Wait until I mention the Bible prophecy. I can't wait to see his face!
 
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sawas

Well-Known Member
This is one spot where I disagree with Andy Woods (I normally agree with his thinking) but I can't agree with the mid trib Ezek 38 GM war, because it needs 7 years burning.

Although in Andy's favour there is the verse about beating swords into plowshares during the millennial reign, so if they retool the weapons of war, burning the weapons might fit under that category too.
Hi @athenasius - I'd started a response to an associated point you'd raised earlier in this thread, but - sort of per usual of late - was unable to finish it. Seems, most days, by the time I get to sit down to read here, I can barely keep my eyes open, let alone write something that requires research, thought, et al. Sort of just squeezing this in this morning...

You'll recall, perhaps, that I'd considered Andy Wood's mid-trib views in that prior thread. His (and others, such as Dwight Pentecost's) views appear linked to the notion that a final contingent of Jews would return to Israel "in faith", per Ezekiel 39:22-29. You'd cited some/part of this in that earlier post, I recall. Like you (I gather), I believe this is the principal (if not whole) point of the Gog/Magog exercise, highlighting in bright neon God's sovereignty, especially in regard to Israel. In my view, all subsequent ("incidental") events, such as rebuilding of the temple and, even, the AC's treaty itself, would follow.

Nowhere in scripture (that I've been able to determine) does this "return in faith" suggest any recognition of Jesus' Sonship, divinity, and atoning sacrifice. I'd be very interested to hear how Andy Wood's makes that particular leap. As I see it, Jews - fully recognizing the Father's sovereignty and their miraculous delivery from Gog/Magog - would be quite capable of being deceived by the AC (presumably posing as their messiah) and "return in faith". As I understand it, Judaism continues not to recognize God's trinitarian nature, one reason that so many continue to reject Jesus, despite all of the prophetic clues they were given.

As such, the seven-year issue is - to my thinking at least - sort of a minor influence on my thinking. It adds another layer of evidence, but as noted above, could (theoretically at least) be part of the millennium. On this notion, I was interested to note that Jack Kelly makes a similar claim regarding Egypt's 40-year judgement (per Ezekiel 29:13-16) - see this link. Admittedly, that particular (presumably unfulfilled) prophecy would complicate most end-time views held in this camp.
 

Uturn9319

Well-Known Member
Hi @athenasius - I'd started a response to an associated point you'd raised earlier in this thread, but - sort of per usual of late - was unable to finish it. Seems, most days, by the time I get to sit down to read here, I can barely keep my eyes open, let alone write something that requires research, thought, et al. Sort of just squeezing this in this morning...

You'll recall, perhaps, that I'd considered Andy Wood's mid-trib views in that prior thread. His (and others, such as Dwight Pentecost's) views appear linked to the notion that a final contingent of Jews would return to Israel "in faith", per Ezekiel 39:22-29. You'd cited some/part of this in that earlier post, I recall. Like you (I gather), I believe this is the principal (if not whole) point of the Gog/Magog exercise, highlighting in bright neon God's sovereignty, especially in regard to Israel. In my view, all subsequent ("incidental") events, such as rebuilding of the temple and, even, the AC's treaty itself, would follow.

Nowhere in scripture (that I've been able to determine) does this "return in faith" suggest any recognition of Jesus' Sonship, divinity, and atoning sacrifice. I'd be very interested to hear how Andy Wood's makes that particular leap. As I see it, Jews - fully recognizing the Father's sovereignty and their miraculous delivery from Gog/Magog - would be quite capable of being deceived by the AC (presumably posing as their messiah) and "return in faith". As I understand it, Judaism continues not to recognize God's trinitarian nature, one reason that so many continue to reject Jesus, despite all of the prophetic clues they were given.

As such, the seven-year issue is - to my thinking at least - sort of a minor influence on my thinking. It adds another layer of evidence, but as noted above, could (theoretically at least) be part of the millennium. On this notion, I was interested to note that Jack Kelly makes a similar claim regarding Egypt's 40-year judgement (per Ezekiel 29:13-16) - see this link. Admittedly, that particular (presumably unfulfilled) prophecy would complicate most end-time views held in this camp.
Sawas, I was wondering where you went. I notice your posts are usually in the early AM. Glad to see you back!
 

sawas

Well-Known Member
Sawas, I was wondering where you went. I notice your posts are usually in the early AM. Glad to see you back!
Sorry, things are just really hectic lately. I'd love to contribute more, but I'm trying to (at least) keep up with y'all from the side-lines as best I can manage. Sometimes I can read a bit before work and/or a bit later at night. What I'm having a harder time with is taking the time to properly research before throwing ideas out here (not to mention putting a coherent thought together, LOL). Glad you're all keeping at it. I hope to have things under control before too much longer..............................
 

Uturn9319

Well-Known Member
I read Don Stewart's opinion on Ezekiel 38. The whole PDF. I think again, it seems that these aren't really up to date. Perhaps the geographical scene has changed so much in favor of the post-rapture pre-trib view, they won't bother to update their material. I found some interesting material related to Magog's location that nothing I have read have mentioned...

Also Idlib in Syria could be extremely strategic to this prophecy. I find it strange that its the last rebel stronghold and its taking forever for russia/assad to recapture it. Turkey has moved military in, but rumor has it they will concede to russia.
 
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Anastacia

Well-Known Member
I read Don Stewart's opinion on Ezekiel 38. The whole PDF. I think again, it seems that these aren't really up to date. Perhaps the geographical scene has changed so much in favor of the post-rapture pre-trib view, they won't bother to update their material. I found some interesting material related to Magog's location that nothing I have read have mentioned...

Also Idlib in Syria could be extremely strategic to this prophecy. I find it strange that its the last rebel stronghold and its taking forever for russia/assad to recapture it. Turkey has moved military in, but rumor has it they will concede to russia.
I'm not sure what Don Stewart's PDF says, but he was in Jan Markell's show a few days ago and he said he thinks it makes the most sense that E38 happens near the very beginning of the Trib.
He elaborated how it will be the Magog war which destroys the Islamic hold over the area where the 3rd Temple will be rebuilt. And it will be that war which gives the Jews confidence that God is working on their behalf, stirring up their faith in Him (but not yet in Jesus as the Messiah), thus making them determined to rebuild the Temple.
 

Uturn9319

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what Don Stewart's PDF says, but he was in Jan Markell's show a few days ago and he said he thinks it makes the most sense that E38 happens near the very beginning of the Trib.
He elaborated how it will be that war which destroys the Islamic hold over the area where the 3rd Temple will be rebuilt. And it will be that war which gives the Jews confidence that God is working on their behalf, stirring up their faith in Him (but not yet in Jesus as the Messiah, and thus making them determined to rebuild the Temple.
Interesting. In his pdf, he supports a mid trib view. Perhaps he changed his mind. Good to hear!! Its totally possible the Ezekiel 38 war does something to temple location. The belief in Hashem would be fully renewed I agree. I saw a comment from an Israeli that openly stated, "we have forgotten Hashem."
We hope the events keep moving! :cool: :pray

<edit> so I heard the interview, he puts the war at the beginning of the tribulation as stated above. I respect his opinion as others'. I'm still leading towards a post-rapture/pre-tribulation view (the burning of the weapons is what points me towards this view - not to mention how quick these nations are moving along in the middle east presently).
 
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Uturn9319

Well-Known Member
It makes complete sense for it to start right before the Tribulation.
It will be what brings forth the 7 year peace treaty.
It will also create the platform for the AC to build off.
An interesting thought came in my mind today. Suppose Israel does proceed with annexation. The hostility towards Israel worldwide would increase 10 fold giving the islamic world even more incentive to invade if Trump is out of the way. The Dems already said they don't agree with it.

Thoughts?
 
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