Gog/Antichrist..

aldanielle

Well-Known Member
Oh for sure it could happen before the tribulation too, but I've heard from a few different pastors that the covenant with the many likely includes permission to build the new temple, and that answer is what sits best with me. But I'm not dogmatic, and the answer doesn't really affect me apart from curiosity--praise God who saves us from the coming wrath
Is that covenant after the rapture and during the tribulation? Thank you for sharing! I think that makes sense that it would be a part of the peace treaty.
 

Salluz

Well-Known Member
Is that covenant after the rapture and during the tribulation? Thank you for sharing! I think that makes sense that it would be a part of the peace treaty.
Daniel 9:27
He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

The covenant is what starts the tribulation. The covenant is for 7 years, and the those seven years are the tribulation (and the last "week" of 70 weeks of years ie 70×7=490, 483 of which were from the time the agreement to rebuild the wall of Jerusalem to Jesus the messiah being "cut off," and the last 7 being the tribulation). The antichrist defiles the temple in the middle of the week of years (3.5 years in)

Make sense? I can search for more verses if ya have another question
 

aldanielle

Well-Known Member
Daniel 9:27
He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

The covenant is what starts the tribulation. The covenant is for 7 years, and the those seven years are the tribulation (and the last "week" of 70 weeks of years ie 70×7=490, 483 of which were from the time the agreement to rebuild the wall of Jerusalem to Jesus the messiah being "cut off," and the last 7 being the tribulation). The antichrist defiles the temple in the middle of the week of years (3.5 years in)

Make sense? I can search for more verses if ya have another question
That makes complete sense other than the weeks. Thank you!! In your opinion since it is up for speculation when do you believe God/Magog will take place?
 

Salluz

Well-Known Member
That makes complete sense other than the weeks. Thank you!! In your opinion since it is up for speculation when do you believe God/Magog will take place?
Daniel 9 bold is mine
24 Seventy weeks [one "week" of years =seven years. 70x7 = 490 years in total] are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [Notice this is a messianic prophecy that wasn't fully fulfilled at Jesus' first coming]
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

7 weeks + 62 (one score = 20 years like the Abraham Lincoln speech "four score and seven years ago") equals 69 weeks of years for the messiah to arrive, with the thing determining when to count being the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, specifically including the walls. You can also find this date in the bible, and it is what people used to know when Jesus was going to arrive (and how the magi knew to look for the sign that would point to Jesus)

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

After the Messiah died for our sins, not his own, the clock stopped for the 70 weeks, leaving one week, the tribulation (Daniel's 70th week). The Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, so from that we know that the antichrist will be from that people, and it's why prophecy folks are on the lookout for a revived roman empire, that's where the antichrist has to come from

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

And that is the verse talking about the timing of the covenant and the abomination that causes desolation in the middle

I just realized I accidentally quoted from the king james version, hence the odd language like the scores of years. You can easily read those verses in whatever version and look at the context too!

I believe Gog and Magog will take place between the rapture and tribulation, and it is one of the reasons the antichrist needs to confirm a covenant. But I'm not dogmatic about that, and I'm certainly not an authority on the timing of future events in bible prophecy.

Was that helpful?
 

aldanielle

Well-Known Member
Daniel 9 bold is mine
24 Seventy weeks [one "week" of years =seven years. 70x7 = 490 years in total] are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [Notice this is a messianic prophecy that wasn't fully fulfilled at Jesus' first coming]
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

7 weeks + 62 (one score = 20 years like the Abraham Lincoln speech "four score and seven years ago") equals 69 weeks of years for the messiah to arrive, with the thing determining when to count being the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, specifically including the walls. You can also find this date in the bible, and it is what people used to know when Jesus was going to arrive (and how the magi knew to look for the sign that would point to Jesus)

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

After the Messiah died for our sins, not his own, the clock stopped for the 70 weeks, leaving one week, the tribulation (Daniel's 70th week). The Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, so from that we know that the antichrist will be from that people, and it's why prophecy folks are on the lookout for a revived roman empire, that's where the antichrist has to come from

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

And that is the verse talking about the timing of the covenant and the abomination that causes desolation in the middle

I just realized I accidentally quoted from the king james version, hence the odd language like the scores of years. You can easily read those verses in whatever version and look at the context too!

I believe Gog and Magog will take place between the rapture and tribulation, and it is one of the reasons the antichrist needs to confirm a covenant. But I'm not dogmatic about that, and I'm certainly not an authority on the timing of future events in bible prophecy.

Was that helpful?

This is very helpful! It is perfect! Thank you! I appreciate this so much! I am going to study this a bit tonight. You are wonderful for breaking this down for me.
 

katt

Well-Known Member
I've always believed the way for the Temple to be built will happen after the Psalms 83 war..they will be at peace..all thier immediate surrounding enemies will be defeated..making it possible to build the Temple..might even be one of the reasons the coalition comes down on them..
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
If it is a prophecy of a war, and it hasn't already been fulfilled as some teach, at the wars of Independance (1948) or the 67-- 6 Day War and 73 Yom Kippur wars then it would put a Psalm 83 war BEFORE Ez 38.

Bill Salus makes some very good points, but there are good teachers who say if that was a prophecy (and that is up for debate too) then it was done in these earlier wars.

However in Bill's defense, there are more passages that deal with wars in that area that would align with the Ps 83 war.

Destruction of Damascus is in Isaiah 17 but also Jeremiah 49: 23-27 --really all of Jeremiah 49, and Amos 1:3-5 and within the context of those passages we see a lot of other nations involved in the same time frame. Ez 32;17-32 lists a lot of them again.

There's an intriguing reference to a disaster in Elam which is in south west Iran on the shores of the Persian Gulf that is in Jer 49, along with the Damascus event, and another twin reference in Ez 32.

I think there are some wars that Israel goes thru in the near future that have her coming back as Ez 38 says in v 8 from some war AND IS SETTLED securely in the Mountains of Israel.

Whenever you see that phrase MOUNTAINS OF ISRAEL this is referring to the exact same area the muslims claim as their West Bank. In Bible Times it was Judea and Samaria.

I began really paying attention to that phrase when Benjamin Netanyahu declared that Israel was going to extend it's legal authority over this area which they won BACK in the war of 67.

They were granted that area by their UN Charter in 1948 but the surrounding nations invaded, and Jordan kicked all the Jews out, destroyed their homes, took their land and destroyed their synagogues.

When Israel took it's land BACK in 67 a short 19 years later, they allowed the so called Palestinians to remain on the land they stole, in the homes they built and left their mosques intact.

The "self rule" of the West Bank and the Gaza has been a disaster for both Arabs and Jews. The so called Settlers, who claimed land that was theirs to begin with, and built there are considered interlopers, while the entitled muslim invaders think of themselves as the rightful owners.

In those Bible passages above, the references to Edom and Moab and Ammon (the city of Amman, the capitol of Jordan is named from that) are all referring to modern day Jordan. References to the West Bank are "The Mountains of Israel".

At some point Israel will take back more of her land, and this may well be in response to another limited Middle East War on Israel.

Ez 32 has an unusual repetition of a phrase that God repeats over and over. These people are being destroyed because they CAUSED TERROR IN THE LAND OF THE LIVING.

Yep. Terrorism. It's a major reason for this war. Including Elam, which is in modern day Iran.
 
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Spartan Sprinter 1

Well-Known Member
If it is a prophecy of a war, and it hasn't already been fulfilled as some teach, at the wars of Independance (1948) or the 67 and 73 wars then it would put a Psalm 83 war BEFORE Ez 38.
Yeah that's a hard one isn't it, logically it kinda makes sense that it happened between the 67- 73 wars as the rhetoric of the countries lining up at the borders of Israel was to make Israel a nation no more, but Bill Salus also puts a good argument that not all the players mentioned in Psalm 83 have all lined up against Israel.

Got me stumped LOL !!!!
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
I think we are currently seeing Jordan getting irritated with Israel by the day over the Temple Mount and Egypt is trying to help Israel with the Gaza crisis but considering the roots of the Gaza situation go right back to Egypt's attempts to wipe Israel out in 1948, I think something happens to suck Egypt into that conflict, because that passage in Ez 32 that mentions all the others causing terrorism, doesn't say it about Egypt, yet they get sucked in somehow. And somehow Egypt is comforted by the fact that the others, who did cause terror are lying dead alongside them.

Right now Egypt is struggling to contain the Muslim Brotherhood (the terrorists of their own) and remain a moderate muslim nation and stay friendly with Israel. I keep wondering if something will blow.
 

katt

Well-Known Member
Israel in it's history since 1948 has never been at peace....because of this they built the wall...Ezekiel says the coalition comes down on a peaceful land of unwalled villages.....the only way Isreal can become a peaceful land of unwalled villages is to win a war that causes it's surrounding enemies to be null and void....Israel will be doing quite well at the time of the Gog war..which consists of Israel's enemies from much further away from her than syria...therefore IMHO...none of the wars Isreal has fought since 1948 can be the Psalms 83 war...
 

antitox

Well-Known Member
Oh for sure it could happen before the tribulation too, but I've heard from a few different pastors that the covenant with the many likely includes permission to build the new temple, and that answer is what sits best with me. But I'm not dogmatic, and the answer doesn't really affect me apart from curiosity--praise God who saves us from the coming wrath
That wouldn't be improbable. He'll make a 7 yr agreement: Dan 9:27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

I see the agreement being a peace deal the AC mediates to his credit supposedly between Israel and their enemies. I figure this will impress everyone since they never have been able to get a valid agreement made and it will give everyone a temporary awe inspired view of him. Then everyone will hail him as the wonderful leader and negotiator. It's possible that the success with the agreement could cause the people of Islam to allow the temple to be built without interference.
 
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