Gap after Rapture & before Tribulation - Your thoughts?

RonJohnSilver

Well-Known Member
Some include the Psalms 83 war as something that must occur before the Tribulation. I'm not totally convinced that there actually is a Psalms 83 war. That conflict was never considered before Bill Salus highlighted it in one of his books, Israelistine, I think. There may be an actual war, I'm just not convinced of it. Salus is, I think, a solid believer and not someone just trying to sell a book. And he may be right, someone has to be the first to discover something. I'm just not sure that his conclusions are correct. That said, the areas that are mentioned in the Psalm 83 passage are the strongholds of today's terrorist groups...ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. And, it's possible that the destruction of Damascus mentioned in Isaiah is part of that, after all, Israel just days ago, bombed Syria, so that could explode quickly. I guess my point is that this Psalm conflict seems to me to be part of the ongoing battle that Israel and the Arabs are having and shouldn't have any bearing or relation to the other events in the Bible. Rather, it's part of the wars and rumors of wars. I think I've gotten off track here so I'll conclude with saying I think there's a gap, maybe significant and the Gog/Magog war is post rapture but pre Trib and the Psalms conflict has no bearing.
 

Ghoti Ichthus

Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20
I don't think there's much, if any, gap.

I think Satan indwells AC and raises him from the dead right after the Rapture because the Restrainer is gone and satan then has no opposition to raise AC from the dead in the counterfeit resurrection. I also think AC will be revealed right at the beginning of the Tribulation. I think if there's any gap between Rapture and Tribulation, it'll be at most 3 days. I also think the Rapture could occur at the moment of the first sacrifice in the Third Temple (even if The Third Temple is only the cornerstone or a temporary Tabernacle or maybe a prefab that can be put up in just a couple of days). So how's that for a busy day or two or three!

The point being, the Church leaves in the Rapture and God always has a way of Salvation for people. If they get saved after the Rapture, they'll be part of the Tribulation Church, so the Tribulation has to start immediately. The OT Covenant and NT Covenant cannot both be at the same time because the veil was rent in two when Jesus died. So the Church cannot be here when Jewish sacrifice resumes. But I think the Church has to be here until the moment the sacrifice does resume.

Wish I could draw a timeline on the screen so what I'm trying to say would be clearer.
 

newtofaith

Well-Known Member
Townerka, are you saying that there might be a gap of six months between the rapture and trib? Autumn to Spring?
I'm not sure I have understood you correctly.
 

townerka

Well-Known Member
Townerka, are you saying that there might be a gap of six months between the rapture and trib? Autumn to Spring?
I'm not sure I have understood you correctly.
No one knows for sure. It's all speculation. The Seven year tribulation is defined in scripture and we know it'll run seven years. Jesus returns at the end or right after that period. I don't know the exact date and no one ones it for sure except the Father.

According to some scholars, Jesus's first coming fulfilled three Jewish holidays in the Spring. Pentecost (festival of weeks) is after these holidays and is the "interruption" between the spring and fall festivals. Pentecost was the day the Church was born. There is some extra-bibicial from Jewish traditions that suggests Enoch was born and taken on the day we know as Pentecost (again not scripture).

If Christ's first coming fulfilled these three spring festivals, there's a good chance His second coming will fulfill the fall festivals. What's extremely interesting to me, is that if we assume Christ will indeed return in the fall timeframe, the AC would have to confirm the covenant some seven years before that (Daniel 9:24-27). Since we KNOW that the treaty is seven years long. If the AC signs this covenant in the fall period (September-October), the 3 1/2 period where the AC defiles the temple (Matthew 24) would put in right around Passover.

Think of it, the newly rebuilt temple is going to have one of it's first sacrifices on Passover in two millennial (the world would be watching), instead of allowing it to happen he stops it and demands the worship himself. Many people would see this and the Jews would realize he isn't their Messiah.

Since we know the rapture is imminent and has no requirements except a specific number (Romans 11:25), I lean that they'll be a gap (probably small one) between the Church being taken and the AC confirming the covenant. Since there's good evidence that this confirming the covenant might happen in the fall, I would say that weighs against the rapture happening then.
 

Patreesha

Active Member
I believe the Tribulation will start a few day after the Rapture. I get there by following the Jewish feasts.
1. Passover = Jesus' Death
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread = Jesus' Burial
3. Feast of Firstfruits = Jesus' Resurrection
4. Pentecost = Start of the Church
5. Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hoshanah) = Rapture
6. Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) = Tribulation
7. Feast of Tabernacles = Millennial Kingdom
Now whether it's the Yom Kippur in the same year as the Rapture, who knows? However, due to the total chaos of the Rapture, the Antichrist will need to step in quickly to explain the lie and "fix" the world.
 

RonJohnSilver

Well-Known Member
I believe the Tribulation will start a few day after the Rapture. I get there by following the Jewish feasts.
1. Passover = Jesus' Death
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread = Jesus' Burial
3. Feast of Firstfruits = Jesus' Resurrection
4. Pentecost = Start of the Church
5. Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hoshanah) = Rapture
6. Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) = Tribulation
7. Feast of Tabernacles = Millennial Kingdom
Now whether it's the Yom Kippur in the same year as the Rapture, who knows? However, due to the total chaos of the Rapture, the Antichrist will need to step in quickly to explain the lie and "fix" the world.
As often noted, if the rapture is imminent, which many believe, then it cannot, cannot be tied to any event, festival, date or anything else. The fall feast are, I think, fulfilled in Jesus' second coming, but the rapture is not fixed to anything.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I believe the Tribulation will start a few day after the Rapture. I get there by following the Jewish feasts.
1. Passover = Jesus' Death
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread = Jesus' Burial
3. Feast of Firstfruits = Jesus' Resurrection
4. Pentecost = Start of the Church
5. Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hoshanah) = Rapture
6. Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) = Tribulation
7. Feast of Tabernacles = Millennial Kingdom
Now whether it's the Yom Kippur in the same year as the Rapture, who knows? However, due to the total chaos of the Rapture, the Antichrist will need to step in quickly to explain the lie and "fix" the world.
Maybe, but then I wonder why the rapture of the church, would line up with any Jewish holiday?
 

BlessedAssurance

Well-Known Member
Maybe, but then I wonder why the rapture of the church, would line up with any Jewish holiday?
Good question. Perhaps it's not for the church so much as it would be for Israel? Could it be a way to get their attention and put special significance on the event? As far as I can see, God works by the Jewish calendar and many signs and wonders line up according to their holidays and timelines, not ours.

I have no idea though. Just tossing out a thought. :) But I definitely agree that the rapture wouldn't be "imminent" if tied to a particular holiday.
 

Batfan7

Well-Known Member
I tend to think that any gap would be small. Isn't the purpose of the Rapture either as a "rescue" (get the Church out of there before the Wrath of God Falls) or as a "remove the dam" situation (the Restrainer is removed and now evil can gush forth). Either way, it seems like the Rapture allows the End Times events to start, and I can't see our gracious God removing the Church (ending the possibility of others to join the Church) before the last second (this giving as much opportunity to people as possible).

The Gap idea seems like it arises mostly as a way to fit all End Times stuff in AND say that the Rapture can be the next second. Like, using the rebirth of Israel as an example, if someone two hundred years ago said that Israel would have to be back in her land before the Trib could start (they would have been right), but looking at the world around them, where that wasn't a reality yet, they could have said that a Rapture gap would explain things. The Church is Raptured, then a gap where Israel is reformed, and ta-da! Problem solved! The idea if a gap allows things like a rebuilding of Babylon, or a rise of a Ten-king gov't.

So, if you believe in a gap, it's a lot easier to see the Rapture as "any second". Since I tend to not think there's much of a gap (months, at most), I look around and think "the Rapture is close...but maybe not yet."

I'm not sure I described that well. Basically, it seems like the Gap idea is more a creation that springs out of the idea that the Rapture could be "right now!", but knowing the world isn't perfectly staged for the Trib, rather than something that holds up Biblically on it's own. If there's a tiny gap, then a person is stuck with the unhappy idea that the Rapture might not be as soon as we'd like.

The Doctrine of Imminence says there is nothing that prevents the Rapture from happening now, as it is signless. The Gap theory allows the Rapture to be divorced from the Tribulation far enough that the necessary things for the Trib (such as a ten-kingdom gov't) don't need to be in place first, so when you live at a time where that's not in place, you can still hope for the Rapture. Otherwise, you look around and say, "well, soon hopefully, but not yet."
 

Flyfisher

Well-Known Member
I tend to think that any gap would be small. Isn't the purpose of the Rapture either as a "rescue" (get the Church out of there before the Wrath of God Falls) or as a "remove the dam" situation (the Restrainer is removed and now evil can gush forth). Either way, it seems like the Rapture allows the End Times events to start, and I can't see our gracious God removing the Church (ending the possibility of others to join the Church) before the last second (this giving as much opportunity to people as possible).
Keep in mind the bold statement is not biblically sound. The rapture is based on a specific number of Christians being reached. As soon as that number is reached the rapture happens. If you are on the wrong side of that number, it doesn’t matter what happens or how long after the rapture the trib happens. The church age is over when a specific number of Christians is reached not a specific time stretched out to allow as a many as possible to become true believers.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Keep in mind the bold statement is not biblically sound. The rapture is based on a specific number of Christians being reached. As soon as that number is reached the rapture happens. If you are on the wrong side of that number, it doesn’t matter what happens or how long after the rapture the trib happens. The church age is over when a specific number of Christians is reached not a specific time stretched out to allow as a many as possible to become true believers.
Well said, as I was mentally preparing a similiar response, but your post captures it better than I would have.

When the numbers are in, its go time!
 
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Flyfisher

Well-Known Member
Well said, as I was mentally preparing a similiar response, but your post captures it better than I would’ve!

When the numbers are in, its go time!
This is why I can see a gap. Not saying there is one but not saying there isn’t. Only two requirements. 1. Rapture happens before tribulation and 2. The number of Christians is a finite number. The Bible is not clear if there is a gap or not. But I am certain that God’s timing on the rapture is perfect we just may not think so due to what we might have to go through.

I still like the discussion though as it does make me have to think.
 

usoutpost31

Well-Known Member
Keep in mind the bold statement is not biblically sound. The rapture is based on a specific number of Christians being reached. As soon as that number is reached the rapture happens. If you are on the wrong side of that number, it doesn’t matter what happens or how long after the rapture the trib happens. The church age is over when a specific number of Christians is reached not a specific time stretched out to allow as a many as possible to become true believers.
That also implies that if tomorrow, every living man, women and child repented and turned to God, he'd either put a cap on his grace or try and cattle prod the Rapture in there somewhere.

A specific number of Christians before the Rapture is how some have interpreted Romans 11:25. That is not a widely held interpretation.
 

Randy - Saved by Grace

Well-Known Member
Believe you me, once they see it come to pass as God's word had predicted so long ago in the book of Daniel and Revelation, they will not only be mind blown at the total accuracy of the Bible, but be saved as a result. For those of us who are here to witness it all come to pass who are already believers, it would definitely increase our Faith like never before.

If I were to hazard a guess as to how long it will take for this 10 king empire to form, it would take 5-10 years tops if things continue as they are or gets worse.

Several months ago I googled "will the EU divide the world into 10 kingdoms" and a sight came up that showed a world map that the EU has already drawn up dividing the world into 10 regions.
 

Len

Well-Known Member
That also implies that if tomorrow, every living man, women and child repented and turned to God, he'd either put a cap on his grace or try and cattle prod the Rapture in there somewhere.

A specific number of Christians before the Rapture is how some have interpreted Romans 11:25. That is not a widely held interpretation.
I had always held that view of Romans 11:25 as does Jack Kelly but I had no idea there was another differing view ........ until I googled it and was quite surprised to read a couple of interesting articles on the subject, particularly one by the Jewish Awareness Ministries (whoever they are) that was different and interesting,
 
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