Foresake

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
God promises to never foresake us. I do wonder about abused Christian children. I read stories of persecuted Christians and how their children are raped, murdered. How does one reconcile this?

I try not to worry about my children as I know God's promises, yet I wonder if God's best for them would include those tragedies. I know Romans 8 promise of working all things for good, so what would we consider forsaking?

I struggle with not worrying about future persecution because God does allow that for his children. I hope this makes sense. I trust God while also worry that his best for me and my kids could include those evils.

My dad was raped throughout his childhood by various people from family, priests, school admin, etc. He is Christian now but does not believe God interferes with the affairs of man because that would mean God allowed him to be raped when he was a child. I know Romans 8 is applicable here but it's difficult seeing my dad's pain. As a result my dad was vocal against abuse of kids and raised us to be open with him if anything weird was happening. It spared us and that is good. Yet, did God really have to allow that trauma? It's a tough one to answer and hard to accept.
 
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Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
I could write a good bit about this topic but to summarize: Trust Him.

God doesn't promise us all peaches and cream, and over the course of mankind's short history, there have likely been billions of horrible atrocities committed by man against others of mankind. God does tell us, and I'm paraphrasing, that he'll turn those things to good for those who are His.

Additionally, the Word tells us that God did not give us a spirit of fear. How can we parents not fear for our beloved children in this insanely evil world we reside in: Trust Him.

And be protective of your children while being alert to the possible dangers around you.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
I could write a good bit about this topic but to summarize: Trust Him.

God doesn't promise us all peaches and cream, and over the course of mankind's short history, there have likely been billions of horrible atrocities committed by man against others of mankind. God does tell us, and I'm paraphrasing, that he'll turn those things to good for those who are His.

Additionally, the Word tells us that God did not give us a spirit of fear. How can we parents not fear for our beloved children in this insanely evil world we reside in: Trust Him.

And be protective of your children while being alert to the possible dangers around you.
That's where I struggle because I trust him knowing he may allow those things. That's what troubles me. I don't want that to happen to my kids or to me. I just wish I had assurance that it won't.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
That's where I struggle because I trust him knowing he may allow those things. That's what troubles me. I don't want that to happen to my kids or to me. I just wish I had assurance that it won't.

No matter what comes your way, turn to Him. There will never be a better place to be no matter the circumstances.

So many blame God for troubles that occur in their lives and turn away from God. That's the worst possible response a person can make in the face of their troubles.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
No matter what comes your way, turn to Him. There will never be a better place to be no matter the circumstances.

So many blame God for troubles that occur in their lives and turn away from God. That's the worst possible response a person can make in the face of their troubles.
That's true. He is the most important person I have in this evil World.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
That's true. He is the most important person I have in this evil World.
For me, its simple, not simply adhered to by me, yet still simple. Raise your children as best you can, and raising them to have faith in Him. I failed at that with my boys when I was unsaved, but focus on that with my daughter and granddaughter. Parents will always have fears concerning the safety of their kids, but for those who are in Christ, or under the age of accountability (if there is an age of accountability), no matter what happens while in the body, He does not forsake us because He keeps us secure in Him for eternity.

Forsake means to abandon, and that is something He will never do.
 

Wally

Choose your words carefully...
The difficult thing to understand is all sin is bad. We see through human eyes and often assign degrees. We're analog.

God is digital. 1,0... yes, no ... sin, sinless. He is perfect, and when we try to fathom God, well some go mad, some just refuse to believe and embrace chaos.

Why do good suffer? Job didn't know, but we readers of his book saw some of it. God showed us the behind the scenes, yet the actual Why is not given to us.

And what about others who suffer? Paul presents the best notion, and remember he starts with a what if....

Romans 9:22-24 HCSB

22 And what if God, desiring to display His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience objects of wrath ready for destruction? 23 And what if He did this to make known the riches of His glory on objects of mercy that He prepared beforehand for glory— 24 on us, the ones He also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?


Its heartbreaking to even think of kids suffering, even when the state tries misdirected good intentions.
Perhaps God allows it to challenge men to shun evil and to be a terror to it.
The current twisted morality of LGBT takes a sin that needs compassion and help, and turns it into a right and then goes beyond that in lawful corruption of kids.

People who have been brutalized, unloved, and lied to or pushed in to relationships that are unhealthy and certainly not what God intended, must be respected and helped.
There are tons of reasons why gay becomes one's life style.

But to mandate it's acceptance is demonic. Period.

So God weeps, suffers, and extends His hand of forgiveness. For those who receive it, peace flows with the assurance:
The innocent will be delivered
The forgiven will be renewed and gain life

And the evil will incur such wrath that even heaven bows and says AMEN to God's Holy Justice.
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
Great thread!

I really appreciate what Paul says about the inevitable troubles we encounter in this life:

God Offers Comfort to All​

All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is our merciful Father and the source of all comfort. He comforts us in all our troubles so that we can comfort others. When they are troubled, we will be able to give them the same comfort God has given us. For the more we suffer for Christ, the more God will shower us with his comfort through Christ. Even when we are weighed down with troubles, it is for your comfort and salvation! For when we ourselves are comforted, we will certainly comfort you. Then you can patiently endure the same things we suffer. We are confident that as you share in our sufferings, you will also share in the comfort God gives us.

2 Corinthians 1:3-7 - NLT

The rest of the chapter is a great read in that Paul also speaks of how those troubles also bring us to places of complete dependence and trust in God. And how we get to see how He will move on our behalf.


And of course we know about Joseph who endured much in prison but God used for His glory and the great good of the world and Joseph's family.

Cheeky, I came from an abused background myself. It was interesting in that I knew God was with me and for some reason was allowed to go through. But where God didn't take me out, He brought me through. This has shaped me to be of use to Him in very unique ways and with the capacity for a knowledgeable comfort to others that points to Christ and His merciful, compassionate work and care in my life. God has used the pain and experience for His wonderful, good purposes. To come alongside others, with compassionate understanding.

When you think of it, Jesus Himself suffered and as a result He is our compassionate, understanding High Priest, Who constantly intercedes on our behalf. One who provides eternal life through placed faith in Him.

Because of His suffering we have been blessed. And God can use ours and other's suffering to also bless others as He directs. :)
 

Kerbluey

Well-Known Member
The only thing I can think is the glory that awaits us will make it all seem irrelevant. If we remember at all.

I went through a stage where I too believed God doesn’t interfere. I rejected that, but then I have so many questions. Some people believe God allows for the free will of these rapists, but then that means He doesn’t allow for the free will of the victims. I reject the free will argument.

Below are the only answers I have.

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us (Rom. 8:18).

For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal. (2 Cor. 4:17-18)
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
Great thread!

I really appreciate what Paul says about the inevitable troubles we encounter in this life:

God Offers Comfort to All​

All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is our merciful Father and the source of all comfort. He comforts us in all our troubles so that we can comfort others. When they are troubled, we will be able to give them the same comfort God has given us. For the more we suffer for Christ, the more God will shower us with his comfort through Christ. Even when we are weighed down with troubles, it is for your comfort and salvation! For when we ourselves are comforted, we will certainly comfort you. Then you can patiently endure the same things we suffer. We are confident that as you share in our sufferings, you will also share in the comfort God gives us.

2 Corinthians 1:3-7 - NLT

The rest of the chapter is a great read in that Paul also speaks of how those troubles also bring us to places of complete dependence and trust in God. And how we get to see how He will move on our behalf.


And of course we know about Joseph who endured much in prison but God used for His glory and the great good of the world and Joseph's family.

Cheeky, I came from an abused background myself. It was interesting in that I knew God was with me and for some reason was allowed to go through. But where God didn't take me out, He brought me through. This has shaped me to be of use to Him in very unique ways and with the capacity for a knowledgeable comfort to others that points to Christ and His merciful, compassionate work and care in my life. God has used the pain and experience for His wonderful, good purposes. To come alongside others, with compassionate understanding.

When you think of it, Jesus Himself suffered and as a result He is our compassionate, understanding High Priest, Who constantly intercedes on our behalf. One who provides eternal life through placed faith in Him.

Because of His suffering we have been blessed. And God can use ours and other's suffering to also bless others as He directs. :)
I don't know if this is blasphemy to say but how can Jesus relate to rape? That's something I've always wondered. It just seems like a sin that goes to an entirely different level, especially when endured as a child. Murder seems much more bearable.
 

Belle of Grace

Longing for Home
God does tell us, and I'm paraphrasing, that he'll turn those things to good for those who are His.

Additionally, the Word tells us that God did not give us a spirit of fear. How can we parents not fear for our beloved children in this insanely evil world we reside in: Trust Him.
And be protective of your children while being alert to the possible dangers around you
Excellent points! I can't add much, except to say this: when God's Word says all things work together for good for His children, the 'good' that is mentioned may happen in two ways. First, in your dad's case @cheeky200386, look at the good wisdom your dad demonstrated as you were growing up, and this likely kept some possibly bad things from happening to his children. Secondly, the 'good' that we don't yet see while still here on the earth will be seen in heaven as our Lord points it out to us. Thirdly, there will be rewards given to us at the Bema Seat for enduring difficult trials. We kept trusting Him, and hanging on to our faith in Him at these difficult times brings great honor to Him. Others in the family or friends may not be aware of what some people are going through, because their faith is steadfast and sure. This will be rewarded, and God's honor will be seen in this as it's revealed at the Bema. It's God who helps the Christians to endure.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I don't know if this is blasphemy to say but how can Jesus relate to rape? That's something I've always wondered. It just seems like a sin that goes to an entirely different level, especially when endured as a child. Murder seems much more bearable.
Do you believe nothing happens without approval from God, or that God allows mankind to continue to live as we do, but at times, He intervenes?
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
The only thing I can think is the glory that awaits us will make it all seem irrelevant. If we remember at all.

I went through a stage where I too believed God doesn’t interfere. I rejected that, but then I have so many questions. Some people believe God allows for the free will of these rapists, but then that means He doesn’t allow for the free will of the victims. I reject the free will argument.

Below are the only answers I have.

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us (Rom. 8:18).

For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal. (2 Cor. 4:17-18)
I was almost raped as a kid when I was 6 years old by a family friend who was 15 years old. I hated being around him as he had crossed the line in another bullying behavior. I remember crying out to God in praying asking him to help me. Then one day, his eldest sister came up to me and told me I didn't have to do anything I didn't want to do.

That teen boy approached me wanting to play house and laid next to me while I was napping while grabbing my waist. I turned to him with anger and told him how his sister told me what she said. He looked afraid, got up and left.

I still wonder why God interfered on my behalf but I give him thanks every day for that. He answered my prayer that day and spared me. I don't know why he doesn't do that for other kids.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
Do you believe nothing happens without approval from God, or that God allows mankind to continue to live as we do, but at times, He intervenes?
I believe God allows everything that happens. It's my father who believes God doesn't interfere. I found this out when we were talking about leaders and I mentioned how God raises them up and takes them down. My dad disagreed and said God doesn't meddle with human affairs and used the example of how God wouldn't allow his many rapes as a child. He kept talking over me and ended the conversation.
 
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Andy C

Well-Known Member
Good info from brother Jack

Question: I hear a lot from people with Reformation background that God disciplines you through hardship and suffering. They claim this in the name of their definition of Sovereignty. They claim that God is in control of everything so if you are suffering he actually designed it for you to suffer for his cause. This doesn’t really sit well with me, because I grew up knowing that God is a loving God, so I never associated suffering with him, and as his form of disciplining. I always associate suffering with the sinfulness of this world, not something orchestrated by God to teach some form of a lesson. Can you please share your thoughts on this?
Answer: This is one of several great errors in reform theology and has done more harm to the body of Christ than we will ever know. First, because it has transferred the blame for all the pain and suffering in the world from sin, and therefore Satan, to God. Second, it has caused the gift of healing to be suppressed in some circles because those who teach that illness comes from God for His purposes caution their followers not to ask Him for healing.

Saying God is in control of everything is also a direct contradiction of claims by Jesus who called Satan the prince (ruler) of this world (John 14:30), by Paul who called him the god of this age (2 Cor. 4:4), and by John who said the whole world is under the control of the evil one (1 John 5:19).

It’s also an attack on the character of God who loved us enough to die for us so we could live with Him. For what purpose would God afflict us after we declare our love for Him? To make us better Christians? To Him we’re already perfect (Hebrews 10:12-14), a new creation (2 Cor. 5:17) as righteous as He is (2 Cor. 5:21). All this was made so by His shed blood. And when He takes us to be with Him, no part of our earthly self will enter heaven with us.

Isaiah 53:4-5 tells us that one purpose of the Lord’s suffering and death was so we could be healed. It doesn’t make any sense to me that the same God who went through all that for us would also strike us with illness whenever it suited Him to do so.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/god-cause-illnesses-suffering/
 

Wally

Choose your words carefully...
John 3:19 HCSB
“This, then, is the judgment: The light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil.



That evil actions happen is a part of this fallen world. That men and governments support such evil is where the condemnation of mankind has its strongest voice.
They hate God and are afraid of man.

Oh how this world is cowed by satan. And certainly some of us feel powerless when we see such unrighteousness ruling.

But we have prayer, and hearts quickened by the Gospel. We have more power that we know. Stand for what is right , what is Godly.
 
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