First Four Trumpets

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Butch

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I have searched for several years (to no avail) for evidence of someone else seeing this: If what happens relating to the "third part" of the earth during the sounding of the first four trumpets is concentrated rather than cumulative, what John beheld at this time could be the destruction of what is in our Western Hemisphere. An asteroid big enough to effect this would be prevented by the earth's mass from having the same effect on its opposite side. Geographically, the hemisphere of which the United States is a part represents one-third of the earth to within less than one percentage point (the continents of North and South America and 1/2 of Antarctica). If what is on our side of the earth is at this time taken out of the picture, this would lend to the focus being brought to bear upon the Bible lands for Daniel's 70th Week. Also, this would take the mystery away from how "every eye" will be able to simultaneously behold Christ at His Second Coming. Has anyone else out there ever seen or thought about this? What do ya'll (I'm from Western Ky.!) think???
 

Batfan7

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Eh, while the cold math works out, anything taking out that much of the landmass of the Earth certainly wouldn't be neatly confined like that. Unless you think there will be supernatural shields protecting the rest of the planet, such an event would destroy far more than just a third of the Earth. So I don't think I'd hold to that theory.
 

Butch

Well-Known Member
It is easy to wonder if smartphones and our present technology will be able to sustain all that will happen between now and Christ's Second Coming, but perhaps it will. If this is the way that Jesus will be seen by "every eye," I struggle with the thought that a hemisphere of people may not be aware that He has come again until they awake and look at their phones or TV. I know much more could be said, but food for thought.
On the math, according to Wikepedia, these are the percentages of the continents: Our hemisphere---N. America 16.5%, S. America 12.0%, and half of Antarctica 4.6%, for a total of 33.1%. Israel's hemisphere---Asia 29.5%, Africa 20.4%, Europe 6.8%, Australia 5.9%, and the other half of Antarctica 4.6%, for a total of 67.2%. The three-tenths discrepancy (33.1+67.2=100.3%) is with Wikepedia's numbers, but it is easy to see that our side is "a third part" to within less that 1%. Of course, God gets to choose His star (asteroid?), where it hits, at what angle, and at what velocity. In my concept, if "Wormwood" falls upon the rivers and fountains of waters, this means it hits land. According to the account, it may be preceded by other smaller meterors or fragments that are responsible for their fair share of the cataclysm. And the "great mountain burning with fire" certainly makes a contribution. It may be a mountain range like the Rockies, being hurled into the Pacific by nuclear explosions. As far as what protection would be afforded the rest of the planet, it's not hard to imagine that great tidal waves would occur in both the Pacific and the Atlantic, but there's a lot of distance, ocean, and land between the Bible lands and what would be happening in our hemisphere. In my thinking, only Israel and the Bible lands may be spared, kinda like a stage reset of the Bible days. Said another way, if this is what is slated to occur, what is in our hemisphere was not known about at Christ's First Coming, and will not factor in His Second Coming.
Absolutely, I may be wrong. But, the thought that the destruction relating to the first four trumpets may be concentrated rather than cumulative has been an engaging one for me. Either possibility is equally as legit for discussion---I just haven't heard anyone ever address the possibility of concentrated. A curious thought for me.
 

Kaatje

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I believe that the reason why every eye will see our Our Lord Jesus when He comes,
will be because He will show Himself to everyone at the same time.
There will be no need for televisions, smartphones, computers or whatever.
He will be there, plain site, for every to eye to see, and at the same time.
Because He is not restricted to our law of physics.

Just like on Pentacost, when every man heard with own ears the great works of God.
 

LiCaMi

Well-Known Member
I believe that the reason why every eye will see our Our Lord Jesus when He comes,
will be because He will show Himself to everyone at the same time.
There will be no need for televisions, smartphones, computers or whatever.
He will be there, plain site, for every to eye to see, and at the same time.
Because He is not restricted to our law of physics.

Just like on Pentacost, when every man heard with own ears the great works of God.
These verses I pasted below is what cames to mind when "all eyes will see"; I noticed that nobody even bible scholars can clearly explain how exactly God divided waters from waters in Gen 1:6-8. Paul mentioned third heaven which brings to my attention that we only see two heaven which is blue sky we breathed and space that we required to wear spacesuit. Where is this third heaven? If you pay attention carefully, in Gen 1:14-19, that God put sun, star n moon on forth day right after He planted fields of green herbs, plants and trees: imagining that those greens does not depend on lights. Go back to beginning on first day that God say let there be light clearly saying that He is that light and He does not need sun, star and moon to show lights.

Imagine that we look at the sky at night, remove those stars n moon and just look at the blackness. Could this blackness as black matter is waters that God with His words spoken to separate waters from waters? Again imagine how God will open part of waters like a scroll to send Jesus to hazpo us away with Him to His heaven. That is just me anyway.

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Genesis 1:6‭-‬8 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/gen.1.6-8.KJV

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.
2 Corinthians 12:2‭-‬6 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/2co.12.2-6.KJV
 
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Len

Well-Known Member
But, the thought that the destruction relating to the first four trumpets may be concentrated rather than cumulative has been an engaging one for me. Either possibility is equally as legit for discussion---I just haven't heard anyone ever address the possibility of concentrated. A curious thought for me.
I think it was a very interesting thought too, but an earthquake or yellowstone taking out the US would be just as effective, but I do think something that big is going to effect the rest of the world that would probably take out more than a third ....
 

Mikedexion

Well-Known Member
I have searched for several years (to no avail) for evidence of someone else seeing this: If what happens relating to the "third part" of the earth during the sounding of the first four trumpets is concentrated rather than cumulative, what John beheld at this time could be the destruction of what is in our Western Hemisphere. An asteroid big enough to effect this would be prevented by the earth's mass from having the same effect on its opposite side. Geographically, the hemisphere of which the United States is a part represents one-third of the earth to within less than one percentage point (the continents of North and South America and 1/2 of Antarctica). If what is on our side of the earth is at this time taken out of the picture, this would lend to the focus being brought to bear upon the Bible lands for Daniel's 70th Week. Also, this would take the mystery away from how "every eye" will be able to simultaneously behold Christ at His Second Coming. Has anyone else out there ever seen or thought about this? What do ya'll (I'm from Western Ky.!) think???
Well you kinda have to think like an ancient man for this to make more sense. In John’s day everyone knew the earth was flat, that the sky above was covered by a solid dome (funny enough the Hebrew word for firmament which is “Raqia” does explicitly say a solid substance.) So it wouldn’t be hard to reckon the waters on top of the dome-firmament and God’s throne would literally be right on top of the earth (and him looking at us like grasshoppers)

If the human population is reduced by the time of trouble and the “sky is rolled back like a scroll” it’s not hard to imagine this with that type of reckoning. However with the modern reckoning of earth it does pose issues. :idunno
 

Butch

Well-Known Member
I think it was a very interesting thought too, but an earthquake or yellowstone taking out the US would be just as effective, but I do think something that big is going to effect the rest of the world that would probably take out more than a third ....
 

Butch

Well-Known Member
I'm new at all of this and still trying to learn my way around! My post concerning the first four trumpets is the first post I've made on any kind of forum ever, so bear with me.
Of course, other things might be effective in taking out the U.S., but it is what John saw that took out "the third part," not something else. Whether the third part is the U.S. (and what is in this hemisphere), we will not know before the fact. But one thing is very certain---John saw a third part took out, and this is HUGE, VERY HUGE! My interest is in trying to understand more fully what it is that he saw, whether it's possible in our present concept or not. Like with the fourth trumpet, my present concept would be that the resultant dust, vapor, and smoke from such a cataclysm could fill the atmosphere to the point of affecting day and nighttime light by one-third. Perhaps my concept is lacking, but it is an effort to align my understanding with what it is that John saw, not something else.
Concerning the flat earth concept that people had back then, my first thought is that John got a little different perspective on things from his vantage point:) (Rev. 4:1)! I would certainly think that what he saw was more on the order of what astronauts get to see and what we are blessed to be able to see on our televisions and computers. We have what John wrote, but I bet he was thinking WHEW!
 
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Butch

Well-Known Member
When I think of the moral decline of our nation and how God has shed His grace on it, it does not surprise me that the entire nation of those left behind over here will face destruction on the level of my thoughts concerning the "third part." When Sodom and Gomorrah (which our nation is rightfully likened to) was destroyed, the account from Genesis 19 reads thus: "And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he had stood before the LORD: And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace" (vss. 27-28).
 

Butch

Well-Known Member
https://www.raptureforums.com/forums/threads/the-sun-and-the-son.149602/

Because of Matt's reply to my above thread, I despair of having him (and possibly Chris) or other brothers and sisters in Christ to think that I may be trying to bend the Bible some. The above thread stems from this thread, which was my first ever. My only threads so far relate to my thoughts concerning the possibility of the "third part" (Rev. 8:7-12) being a concentrated cataclysm. So, I thought it would be good to come back here and more fully clarify.

How ever it is that Christ will be seen simultaneously by "every eye" at His Second Coming, this will be no problem for Him! He can effect this in any way that He wants! :nod But, a lot of what He wants or intends to do is revealed in Scripture. We just have to try to interpret it correctly.

I absolutely believe that EVERY person on the face of the earth will simultaneously behold Christ at His Second Coming! My thinking concerns the possibility that the only people left on earth at the time of His Second Coming will be those in Israel's hemisphere. The only reason I would even "go there" is because of what John saw relating to the sounding of the first four trumpets. To me, it is very simple---the destruction of "the third part" could be a cumulative destruction, OR, it could be a concentrated destruction. I grew up with no concept of the latter possibility. Growing up, my only concept was that the third part destruction would result in a swiss cheese pattern of destruction occurring all around the earth, equaling 1/3 total, or what I have referred to as cumulative.

Growing up, I also liked globes, and the third part of pies!:amen Even in my school age years, when looking from time to time at globes, I remember thinking, there's about 1/3 of the land area that is on our side of the earth, and about twice that much, or 2/3's on the other side. Back then, for me, the other side was China's side! I never thought about it also being Israel's side. Annnyway, years later, when studying The Revelation, it occurred to me that the destruction of the third part during the sounding of the first four trumpets might not be a global swiss cheese pattern of destruction after all. What if it was a cataclysm focused on ONE SIDE of the earth, or what I have referred to as a concentrated destruction? Then, it occurred to me that if that was so, what if it was to OUR SIDE of the earth that this happened? The wheels of my mind were really spinning now. When I looked up the facts and figures concerning the land areas of our side versus the other side and found that our side equaled ONE-THIRD to within less than ONE PERCENTAGE POINT, the wheels of my mind about spun out of control! I thought, the Apostle John must have been pretty sharp on those fractions! Of course, I then wondered if anybody that will be left behind on our side of the earth will even survive to the time of Christ's Second Coming. For me, the thought that the only remaining people (or eyes!) upon the face of the earth at the time of Christ's Second Coming might be those in Israel's hemisphere, took some of the mystery away from how that every eye would simultaneously see Him at that time. I really feel that I may have been overboard redundant on this. I just want to MAKE SURE I am understood. I fully understand that the possibility of our hemisphere (and more importantly, the population of it) being taken out is very huge. But, "the third part" of the earth is very huge also. And the worldwide flood was very huge. I think we have to allow for VERY HUGE. I have even wondered if the reason for my not having been understood is because my thoughts are so novel on this, and novel does not seem to be very popular when it comes to views relating to the end times. I think I may understand. I have enjoyed searching Rapture Forums. It is a very extensive and informative website. I wish I could spend more time here learning from and sharing with other brothers and sisters in Christ that I may never meet till we get to glory. Very respectfully and prayerfully submitted---Butch.

P.S. I am still curious if any body else out there has had similar thoughts on this subject.
 

Hidden

Well-Known Member
I think towards the end of the tribulation, all humanity will be concentrated in one geographic area, and that is around Jerusalem. Everyone will see the Second Coming, and what follows after is carnage of Armageddon and the FP and the AC thrown into the Lake of Fire. Then the Lord will separate the wheat and the tares among the remaining survivors.
 

GotGrace

Well-Known Member
I believe that the reason why every eye will see our Our Lord Jesus when He comes,
will be because He will show Himself to everyone at the same time.
There will be no need for televisions, smartphones, computers or whatever.
He will be there, plain site, for every to eye to see, and at the same time.
Because He is not restricted to our law of physics.

Just like on Pentacost, when every man heard with own ears the great works of God.
I think you’re right. Everyone will see him at the same time. My mind does not know how, but the God that said “let there be light” can do this. There is NOTHING too difficult for Him.
 

InsuranceGuy

Well-Known Member
I think towards the end of the tribulation, all humanity will be concentrated in one geographic area, and that is around Jerusalem. Everyone will see the Second Coming, and what follows after is carnage of Armageddon and the FP and the AC thrown into the Lake of Fire. Then the Lord will separate the wheat and the tares among the remaining survivors.

I agree with this. I personally believe many nations, even continents, in existence today will be gone by the end of the Great Trib. Between wars, 100lb hailstones, earthquakes and other major natural disasters, I'm thinking as it nears the 7 year mark of the Tribulation, the planet will not resemble what it is today. I heard a scientist speaking of the 100lb hailstones on a broadcast one day. The damage of just one would be astounding. God will level mountains, cities and even those in underground shelters will not be safe. Some believe the end of Revelation 6 is describing a polar shift, so we could literally have continents moved from their current location. Even if it is something else, the massive earthquakes are very likely to re-shape the land masses.
 

Hidden

Well-Known Member
Interesting thought Hidden.
One verse that comes to mind is Matthew 24:28 "Where the carcass is there the vultures will gather." There have been several interpretations of this verse to date. Some think it's a reference to the carcasses of the casualties in the Armageddon. Some believe it refers to our Lord, and everyone will be gathered around Him. Anyway, whatever interpretation holds true, I think the general idea is that all humanity at this point will have gathered at one specific place, to be slain or to be judged. Keep in mind that after the seals and the trumpets and bowls, the population on earth will have dramatically reduced, perhaps to less than 500 million, so it's not far-fetched to think that everyone will be around right where the action is towards the very end.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
I have searched for several years (to no avail) for evidence of someone else seeing this: If what happens relating to the "third part" of the earth during the sounding of the first four trumpets is concentrated rather than cumulative, what John beheld at this time could be the destruction of what is in our Western Hemisphere. An asteroid big enough to effect this would be prevented by the earth's mass from having the same effect on its opposite side. Geographically, the hemisphere of which the United States is a part represents one-third of the earth to within less than one percentage point (the continents of North and South America and 1/2 of Antarctica). If what is on our side of the earth is at this time taken out of the picture, this would lend to the focus being brought to bear upon the Bible lands for Daniel's 70th Week. Also, this would take the mystery away from how "every eye" will be able to simultaneously behold Christ at His Second Coming. Has anyone else out there ever seen or thought about this? What do ya'll (I'm from Western Ky.!) think???
I think I get what you are saying, and it's a very interesting possibility.

Let's leave out the every eye see Him part -- because that does have current technological aspects, and just focus on your very interesting and very plausible idea that a concentrated judgement, happening in rapid sequence, takes out some part of the planet, leaving Israel on the exact OTHER side of the planet relatively untouched.

You make an extremely good case with regards to the water in particular. I live in BC Canada, north of Washington State. Our west coast we nickname the Wet Coast, has much of the fresh water reserves in the West, and especially when combined with the other Wet Coast, just below us in Washington's western side, west of the Cascades. The eastern part of the state is dry belt, near desert in some places and that desert extends north to our interior where I live. Oregon goes from a wet rain forest to dry forest, then California goes from dry forest, to hot desert. Water reserves are scarce from midway thru California down thru western central South America. Leaving out the Panama and surrounding areas of wet jungle it goes back to desert regions along that coast. So for this model to work, the hit would be somewhere near Yellowstone.

Meteor, good ol' Jellystone erupting, Nuke attack from Korea's dumpling of doom or China having a fit and lobbing something deadly (although they tend to want to sell stuff, not nuke their customer base) but a good solid hit of a meteor, knocking on Yellowstone's cranky belly might just do something spectacular.

That burning star called Wormwood is fascinating. As Erika (Kaatje) points out, the word in Ukrainian is Chernobyl, which is fascinating in itself. We had a thread a while back talking about the name Artemis (of the Ephesians) and Artemisia (the plant known as Wormwood) and the fact that Artemis of the Ephesians has a black meteorite that the Ephesians worshipped in her honour. Much like the Black Stone of Kabaa that is at the heart of Mecca and is an integral part of the practice of Islam. Another meteorite.

It leads to some interesting thoughts that you bring into the discussion.
 
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