Family, church seek to bring 2-year-old girl back to life through prayer, song and praise

Mish

Well-Known Member
you are so right!

I think their new PR guy, spin doctor has been hard at work spinning the new story to cover over the apostasy and the obvious glaring faults coming from the gnostic heresy they preach.
I agree with you completely!

I don’t understand why so much money continues to roll in for their GoFundMe page? 63k? All I can think of is how truly helpful and needed that amount of money would be for persecuted Christians or any organization that spreads the True Gospel of God’s inerrant Word! :pray The money donated to this grieving mother is not my business- and I do realize that, intellectually... but on a personal level, it just bugs me. :(
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
I agree with you completely!

I don’t understand why so much money continues to roll in for their GoFundMe page? 63k? All I can think of is how truly helpful and needed that amount of money would be for persecuted Christians or any organization that spreads the True Gospel of God’s inerrant Word! :pray The money donated to this grieving mother is not my business- and I do realize that, intellectually... but on a personal level, it just bugs me. :(
I think it bugs you for the reason it bugs me. And that would be the validation that money flowing in, gives to that church's evil teaching. And the idea that money will help make the pain go away. Their baby won't have incurred huge medical costs. And the idea of money being given almost as a consolation prize to help them adjust to God's allowing Olive to die.

There are people who lose their precious children every day of the year, who are grieving and hurting and suffering financially who aren't getting this massive outpouring of support.

If the parents were NOT Bethelites, in high visibility "worship ministry" we wouldn't see those types of funds flowing in. I saw a YouTube appeal for parent's who lost their only child after a very long, expensive (American) battle for life. Heart wrenching. They raised about 10K on that Go Fund Me for the aide to the parents. That was because one of their friends had a YouTube channel and she was encouraging people to donate if they felt like it. We didn't, didn't feel led, but I observed.

The contrast is big. And most families enduring this kind of pain, go it alone, without help, without Go Fund Me appeals that hit the mainstream across America.

I'd be a lot happier to see if once the medical bills are paid, that this family donates the excess to something that helps grieving families adjust to losing a child.
 
Last edited:

Mish

Well-Known Member
:thankyou , Athenasius! You did a far superior job of articulating our:) thoughts and I appreciate your response! :hug

So many families have endured the immense pain of losing a child; I can’t imagine the agony. This is a guess, but I’d imagine 98% of these families do not receive any financial assistance. Our hope and comfort comes from our belief in Jesus, in His finished work on the Cross and Truth given to us by God in His Word.

It bothers me that a church that teaches another gospel has acquired millions of followers:( and have used their notoriety to spread such horrific falsehoods and the public happily devours the lies, most likely sharing them with others in a never-ending cycle of apostasy.

And as you so well stated, the money serves to increase the validity of their false message!

I sincerely pray :pray that the Holy Spirit prick their personal pride, convict them of the falsehoods they preach and embrace the Truth that is God !
 

Mike Evans

Well-Known Member
I wonder if the Lord is using this extreme situation to help shake people awake from their slumber, to get out of the apostate, gnostic heretical mess that Bethel Redding is, and begin to grasp reality and the Word of God in it's proper context.

Some will turn to bitterness and hate and mock Christianity not realizing that Bethel is a GNOSTIC CULT even if it began as a church. It has drifted far far away. The early church had problems with various gnostics. At this point in church history, we are plagued again.

But others, perhaps they will wake up and realize how crazy this is and look more carefully at what they've been taught, and turn to Jesus fully and properly to deliver them from that evil.

Certainly if the parents truly love and know the Jesus of the Bible-- they'd know that Olive has been with Him for a week now, and it would be cruel to drag her back from heaven just for more time on earth.

The fact that they see earth as the best place for Olive, even after heaven speaks VOLUMES about what they really believe.

Like Joel Osteen, who famously titled his book and many a sermon Living Your Best Life NOW-- they see their lives here, and Olive's life here as better than what Jesus promised.

Now the parents thru friends and this go fund me appeal are asking for funds, and like @Hsmommy I also question why--- if they believe Jesus will raise this child from the dead, why they also believe He would only go part way and leave her with deficits, health problems. We are talking Jesus who was part of the Trinity that brought the universe into being in a moment, and by whose power the universe holds together.

OR are they operating on THEIR power, which they know is less than perfect, and are afraid that if they do raise her from the dead, there will be medical issues to overcome?

Bill Johnson the head pastor of Bethel church in Redding CA has a pastoral responsibility to help the grieving parents understand what has happened, not raise false hope. But if he did, he would have to admit his teaching is based on lies and purposeful misunderstandings of the Bible. Instead he throws the church open to conduct services that he knows won't bear fruit and will expose Christianity to ridicule.

In EVERY incident of the dead being raised in both Old and New Testament, it was to prove who Jesus was (the Son of God, very God and very man in the flesh) or to testify to God's approval of the Old Testament Prophets as speaking for Him, in His name. When Jesus brought Lazarus out of his tomb, raised up the 12 year old daughter of a synagogue official, or had people come up out of their graves to speak to those in and around Jerusalem after the Cross, these were all pointing to God. When the prophets did it and when Peter and Paul did it, those were validating their ministry as sent from God.

To encourage this kind of thing is wrong on so many levels.
The GoFundMe appeal is, to me, tasteless and mercenary in the extreme. If she had lived, what need would there be for the money? Are there outstanding medical debts?
Do they need it for funeral expenses? If so, why start it when they are in (futile) hope of a ressurrection?
The apostate church is proficient in raising money via heresy, but using a dead child to do so is horrendous and a new low. The church is huge and makes millions from its heretical school of False Miracles. Could they not have just taken up an offering for the family during a service?
The gift they most need, ie. being delivered from this blasphemous false cult, costs nothing beyond time, research, teachability and repentance.
 
Last edited:

Mish

Well-Known Member
The GoFundMe appeal is, to me, tasteless and mercenary in the extreme. If she had lived, what need would there be for the money. Are there outstanding medical debts?
Do they need it for funeral expenses? If so, why start it when they are in (futile) hope of a ressurrection?
The apostate church is proficient in raising money via heresy, but using a dead child to do so is horrendous. The church is huge and makes millions from its heretical school of False Miracles. Could they not have just taken up an offering for the family during a service?
The gift they most need, ie. being delivered from this blasphemous false cult, costs nothing beyond time, research, teachability and repentance.
:scoregoodAmen! I completely agree with everything that you wrote!
 

JSTyler

Well-Known Member
An interesting aside;

Doesn't it seem like GOD is allowing the wide spread use of social media to more frequently "out" the apostasy these days? I hate avoid social media myself, but can appreciate the knowledge is sheds, tragic or not, about the current state of cristian culture.
 

Anewcreationinjesus

Well-Known Member
Watched Chris Roseborough on fighting on the faith, not allowed to post you tube vid, but he does an excellent study on apostolic signs and wonders including raising the dead, I believe he looks at Matthew 10 re Jesus’ instructions to the 12 disciples (Matthew 10:8) and the Acts (of the apostles) including Paul’s raising of the young lad who fell out of the window during Paul’s sermon....and Roseborough concludes that Johnson is indeed a false apostle ....

Actually while on the subject of Matthew 10 ....here’s something to compare, take Matthew 10:2 in the KJV or NASB ...then compare the same verse in the “Passion translation” ...also looking at the Greek ....

Matthew 10:2

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+10:2&version=TPT

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/mat/10/2/t_conc_939002

Now am no Greek scholar but the Greek “dodeka apostolos” has no hint of “first” whatsoever!!!! As I remember, proton is Greek for first ....

So why does Simmons add “first” into the text ...the “first” apostles...is this so someone like Bill Johnson can stand up, read out Simmons text and say ah ha, they were only the first apostles and we can raise the dead too ....as the elite end times church Jesus has been waiting for made up of “apostles” and “apostolic authority” because “we were born for greatness” and are “little christs” yadda yadda yadda ....

Just a thought ....
 
Last edited:

Anewcreationinjesus

Well-Known Member
An interesting aside;

Doesn't it seem like GOD is allowing the wide spread use of social media to more frequently "out" the apostasy these days? I hate avoid social media myself, but can appreciate the knowledge is sheds, tragic or not, about the current state of cristian culture.
Such a great point ...even yesterday was praying for people to come out of Bethel even through something as sad as this ....and more pastors and church leaders to see that Bethel isn’t sound and to join Andy Woods in calling out dominionism and social justice false gospels for what they are ....
 

Kerbluey

Well-Known Member
Some will turn to bitterness and hate and mock Christianity.......

But others, perhaps they will wake up and realize how crazy this is and look more carefully at what they've been taught, and turn to Jesus fully and properly to deliver them from that evil.

I did both. After I left WoF and Name It Claim It I hated God and His followers. If people had been killing Christians I’d have been first in line with the noose. Eventually I came back. God never turned His back on me. I’m glad to be back in the fold, but it took years. In fact, I still struggle with fearing God and holding Him at arm’s length due to that fear.

Those poor parents. They‘re child is dead, and their beliefs will die when God doesn’t raise her up.
 

SpaceBum

Member
As some of you have observed, losing a child is a terrible, terrible blow to any family. I should know, having experienced a similar tragedy first hand. And yes, the financial fallout in my family's case was significant. Full disclosure: one of my daughter's teachers set up a GoFundMe appeal for us, which ultimately helped cover our funeral and health insurance co-pay costs. I never would have opened the appeal myself, however.

I understand all too well the overwhelming anguish Olive's parents' must be going through, but it seems this church has taken advantage of them in their grief-stricken state.

It is so incredibly difficult to accept the death of a child. Even now, after almost two years, I still struggle daily with the loss of my beloved daughter. I often pray, if it is His will, that the Lord might reach back in time to prevent her death from ever happening. Irrational, I know, and fueled no doubt from watching too many science fiction shows and movies about time travel. Still, as someone else already mentioned, it doesn't hurt to ask. I make no demands of God, only that He look upon our grief with mercy and love and help to heal our terribly broken hearts. Time does not heal wounds like this, and there's simply no getting over it. I must carry this burden with me for the rest of my days or until the Rapture, whichever comes first. If God chooses not to reverse this tragedy, then I can still focus my hope on the knowledge that my little girl and I will someday be reunited. Joy is no longer possible in this life, but it absolutely will be in the next. I pray Olive's parents come to this realization, too.
 

Anewcreationinjesus

Well-Known Member
As some of you have observed, losing a child is a terrible, terrible blow to any family. I should know, having experienced a similar tragedy first hand. And yes, the financial fallout in my family's case was significant. Full disclosure: one of my daughter's teachers set up a GoFundMe appeal for us, which ultimately helped cover our funeral and health insurance co-pay costs. I never would have opened the appeal myself, however.

I understand all too well the overwhelming anguish Olive's parents' must be going through, but it seems this church has taken advantage of them in their grief-stricken state.

It is so incredibly difficult to accept the death of a child. Even now, after almost two years, I still struggle daily with the loss of my beloved daughter. I often pray, if it is His will, that the Lord might reach back in time to prevent her death from ever happening. Irrational, I know, and fueled no doubt from watching too many science fiction shows and movies about time travel. Still, as someone else already mentioned, it doesn't hurt to ask. I make no demands of God, only that He look upon our grief with mercy and love and help to heal our terribly broken hearts. Time does not heal wounds like this, and there's simply no getting over it. I must carry this burden with me for the rest of my days or until the Rapture, whichever comes first. If God chooses not to reverse this tragedy, then I can still focus my hope on the knowledge that my little girl and I will someday be reunited. Joy is no longer possible in this life, but it absolutely will be in the next. I pray Olive's parents come to this realization, too.
We can’t imagine the pain you and your family have been through, Spacebum, there are no words....:bighug
 

kjay11

Member
September 16, 2018, my entire life changed. My 10 year old daughter, Sophia, never woke up while at a friend's house. Three days later she was pronounced brain dead. Perhaps you saw her on the news. Somehow, I believe because she had Type 1 diabetes and her death was related to such, she made national and worldwide news.
That being said, I can relate to to their story. At the beginning, I was convinced that somehow God would raise her from the dead. I even had fantasies where we would have to flee where we lived and go into hiding because scientists would want to study the "miracle girl". But I recognized them as what they were. Fantasies. The thoughts of a grieving mother. My brain trying to process the trauma.
During our stay in the hospital, we had so many people praying over her bedside. Multiple pastors from our church, family, and friends congregated at her bedside throughout most of every day, pleading for God to wake my child up. Before each meeting with the myriad of doctors, our pastors prayed with us for a glimmer of positive news, and when there was none, they prayed that it did not harden our hearts to the point that we lost hope. After she was pronounced brain dead, these people still prayed at her bedside. So essentially, yes. They prayed for God to raise her from the dead.
Miracles DO happen. And while the way this family approached it may have been misguided, I can understand, from the depths of my soul, how they got to this point.
Many have posted about the GoFundMe account. We too had one. It was set up while we were in the hospital by a friend. Full disclosure, between the GoFundMe and multiple other donations, we received around $47,000. This was a God thing. We had medical and life insurance for Sophia, so those expenses were minimal. This outpouring of support helped us to focus on our daughter in the short term, and ourselves and our other 2 daughters in the long term. It went towards counseling for all of us. It allowed my husband and I to not return to work for months, so we could properly grieve and work on our own mental health issues that were a result of this tragedy. I still haven't returned to work due to anxiety and PTSD. Some went to a huge memorial birthday party that we threw and somehow got through less than 2 months after her death. So while some may view the money this family received as extravagant, I am 100% certain that they would return every penny if they could have their child back. It is a very humbling experience to receive large sums of money from people, a lot of whom are complete strangers. We felt very undeserving. A family member explained it perfectly though. People want to help. Let them.
The money is a donation to show support, and noone has the right to dictate how the family should use a donation
 
Last edited:

LisaJoe1986

Well-Known Member
The apostate church that my husband and I had our family at many years ago had a situation similar to this. The pastor's wife and another female member of the church went to the mortuary to raise him from the dead (or at least try)after a 2 year old little guy has been killed when he was hit by a car. After several years at that church, I had a "Paul experience". My eyes were dramatically opened to this apostasy and it was terrifying to me. It was terrifying that I had been so deceived.

After studying the new testament non-stop for a week with virtually no sleep, I realized that a HUGE portion of it warned against the stuff our pastor was promoting. We were constantly being scolded for not having testimonies of people being raised from the dead or healed of illness. Oftentimes, we would worship exclusively for the entire service with no message or pastor would invite guest speakers instead. We had people visit who made peoples legs grow...WOW! Many were sold on this stuff. It was nonsense.

The book of Jude was huge for me. Twenty-Nine packed verses on what the false teachers would look like and do. I did a detailed study on exousia power vs dunamis power and it was very enlightening. It has been 12 years or so since I did this, and it is not fresh in my mind but basically I discovered that the apostles had the same power that Jesus had and to my surprise, so does Satan. We don't have this power much to the dismay of the NAR self-proclaimed apostles. These people seem to forget that this power had a very specific purpose for the time. For Jesus, this was to prove who He was according to scripture. For the apostles, it was to spread the gospel to the Jews and to all of the known world. I guess Satan has this to deceive, and it is our job to discern. Maybe someone can help me better understand why God gave him this incredible power?

What struck me most in Jude was verse 9: "But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” I may be wrong but to me, this spoke volumes against what we were taught to do. If Michael didn't command in his own power, how could I possibly think it was within my jurisdiction to do this. We were told at our church to command Satan to flee and command diseases to be gone rather than humbly ask our Father to do these mighty works for us in His power. In scriptures, we are even told not to assume we have tomorrows but to say, "if the Lord wills" (James 4: 13-15).

I was told at this church that it is never God's will to suffer or ever be sick. If people weren't healed, it was because they did not have enough faith. If people died before their time (I don't know when that was) it was because they had unconfessed sin. Never was it God's will. I think they forgot that Jesus' Kingdom was not of this world and maybe they had never read the Bible at all? We RAN from this place after our eyes were opened. It was heart-breaking for my family as all of our friends were there, but it was a difficult act of obedience. We chose truth over friendship. It has been a difficult journey walking out this faith on Earth, but HE is so worth it and I can't wait to thank and worship Him in person.


I am the kind of person who reads a synopsis of a movie before I watch it to reduce the anxiety I experience. I know what God has on the other side is going to be awesome, but I do struggle with anxiety over not knowing the details. I pray He forgives me for this. I know I am not supposed to be anxious, but trust Him, just like we have to do when someone we love goes on before us. If we truly believe this, why on Earth would we ever want to bring someone back to this messed up, sinful world? It seems utterly selfish to even ask God to do this for our own sake. Maybe these people would better spend their prayers asking the Lord to help them accept the loss and heal their hearts and use the loss for His glory!

Sorry for the ramble. I have forum-posting ADD!
 

Kerbluey

Well-Known Member
The apostate church that my husband and I had our family at many years ago had a situation similar to this. The pastor's wife and another female member of the church went to the mortuary to raise him from the dead (or at least try)after a 2 year old little guy has been killed when he was hit by a car. After several years at that church, I had a "Paul experience". My eyes were dramatically opened to this apostasy and it was terrifying to me. It was terrifying that I had been so deceived.

After studying the new testament non-stop for a week with virtually no sleep, I realized that a HUGE portion of it warned against the stuff our pastor was promoting. We were constantly being scolded for not having testimonies of people being raised from the dead or healed of illness. Oftentimes, we would worship exclusively for the entire service with no message or pastor would invite guest speakers instead. We had people visit who made peoples legs grow...WOW! Many were sold on this stuff. It was nonsense.

The book of Jude was huge for me. Twenty-Nine packed verses on what the false teachers would look like and do. I did a detailed study on exousia power vs dunamis power and it was very enlightening. It has been 12 years or so since I did this, and it is not fresh in my mind but basically I discovered that the apostles had the same power that Jesus had and to my surprise, so does Satan. We don't have this power much to the dismay of the NAR self-proclaimed apostles. These people seem to forget that this power had a very specific purpose for the time. For Jesus, this was to prove who He was according to scripture. For the apostles, it was to spread the gospel to the Jews and to all of the known world. I guess Satan has this to deceive, and it is our job to discern. Maybe someone can help me better understand why God gave him this incredible power?

What struck me most in Jude was verse 9: "But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” I may be wrong but to me, this spoke volumes against what we were taught to do. If Michael didn't command in his own power, how could I possibly think it was within my jurisdiction to do this. We were told at our church to command Satan to flee and command diseases to be gone rather than humbly ask our Father to do these mighty works for us in His power. In scriptures, we are even told not to assume we have tomorrows but to say, "if the Lord wills" (James 4: 13-15).

I was told at this church that it is never God's will to suffer or ever be sick. If people weren't healed, it was because they did not have enough faith. If people died before their time (I don't know when that was) it was because they had unconfessed sin. Never was it God's will. I think they forgot that Jesus' Kingdom was not of this world and maybe they had never read the Bible at all? We RAN from this place after our eyes were opened. It was heart-breaking for my family as all of our friends were there, but it was a difficult act of obedience. We chose truth over friendship. It has been a difficult journey walking out this faith on Earth, but HE is so worth it and I can't wait to thank and worship Him in person.


I am the kind of person who reads a synopsis of a movie before I watch it to reduce the anxiety I experience. I know what God has on the other side is going to be awesome, but I do struggle with anxiety over not knowing the details. I pray He forgives me for this. I know I am not supposed to be anxious, but trust Him, just like we have to do when someone we love goes on before us. If we truly believe this, why on Earth would we ever want to bring someone back to this messed up, sinful world? It seems utterly selfish to even ask God to do this for our own sake. Maybe these people would better spend their prayers asking the Lord to help them accept the loss and heal their hearts and use the loss for His glory!

Sorry for the ramble. I have forum-posting ADD!
I can’t like this enough!! I too was horrified by how I’d been deceived. It was very humbling. I’d been gradually doubting and reading debates on the RR board, but God dropped the scales from my eyes one Sunday morning.
 

LisaJoe1986

Well-Known Member
I can’t like this enough!! I too was horrified by how I’d been deceived. It was very humbling. I’d been gradually doubting and reading debates on the RR board, but God dropped the scales from my eyes one Sunday morning.
Can you imagine how Paul must have felt? He was zealously following God and doing His will, or so he thought and then ZAP, Jesus calls to him on Damascus road and shows him he really was blind. After his conversion, can you imagine how hard it was? He had to run from those who were formerly his friends and those whose side he was on now were probably afraid he was pretending to be changed to catch them. I bet even the apostles were skeptical of his change. Although me and all in my family are NOT apostles by any means, having our eyes opened certainly made us consider how Paul might have felt. We had to forsake the place we formerly called home just like he did. It was a terrifying, painful experience to have scales ripped from your eyes. I am so glad God did that! I think my kids think I am a heresy hunter now, but when you know how easy it is to be deceived, your discernment is on full blast all the time. It really has to be these days.
 

Kerbluey

Well-Known Member
Can you imagine how Paul must have felt? He was zealously following God and doing His will, or so he thought and then ZAP, Jesus calls to him on Damascus road and shows him he really was blind. After his conversion, can you imagine how hard it was? He had to run from those who were formerly his friends and those whose side he was on now were probably afraid he was pretending to be changed to catch them. I bet even the apostles were skeptical of his change. Although me and all in my family are NOT apostles by any means, having our eyes opened certainly made us consider how Paul might have felt. We had to forsake the place we formerly called home just like he did. It was a terrifying, painful experience to have scales ripped from your eyes. I am so glad God did that! I think my kids think I am a heresy hunter now, but when you know how easy it is to be deceived, your discernment is on full blast all the time. It really has to be these days.
Yes, I’ve often thought of Paul. I was deceived, but I didn’t have the history he did. It was hard enough recovering without that!
 
Top