Electric Cars Are Bankrupting the Auto Industry

[lightofmylife]

Minnesota wanted to go all-green by 2030 (no way that could be up and running that fast, especially because of winter). Then it was EVs by 2030. Then it was 2040. Then 2050. Now they're looking at mandating new vehicle sales EVs or plug-in hybrids by 2040. Seems that very frigid temps and the batteries don't mix And there's the giant elephant in the room no one's talking about: used vehicle sales.

Nothing enacted, yet, but it's coming. Some of the things the State's looking at are the infrastructure to support the vehicles, how to make it "affordable," fast charging, mandating minimum ranges, and without messing up the environment to do it. Someone may have learned from what's happening in California and elsewhere (hopefully, anyway).

If we get a Republican President in, this EV nonsense should stop. Hopefully, we won't be here anyway. The way this world is going we should be taken out of here.

 

[Tall Timbers]

If we get a Republican President in, this EV nonsense should stop. Hopefully, we won't be here anyway. The way this world is going we should be taken out of here.

If it's not Trump it would likely be a RINO and most of the madness would continue.

 

[GotGrace]

Wonder if TPTB will go after the bicycles, adult trikes, quads, and e-versions of them to force people into ecars?

I’m a little old to be riding my e bike to Walmart. Especially when it rains. Girly girls don’t like it when our hair doos get wet. Wouldn’t be able to handle an umbrella and steer. Guess I would have to put a Walmart bag on my head. Don’t think saddle bags on a bike will hold much.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

I’m a little old to be riding my e bike to Walmart. Especially when it rains. Girly girls don’t like it when our hair doos get wet. Wouldn’t be able to handle an umbrella and steer. Guess I would have to put a Walmart bag on my head. Don’t think saddle bags on a bike will hold much.

Some of the quads have canopies. There are also rain cover things for bikes and scooters that can be used while riding in the rain or snow.

 

[Tall Timbers]

I’m a little old to be riding my e bike to Walmart. Especially when it rains. Girly girls don’t like it when our hair doos get wet. Wouldn’t be able to handle an umbrella and steer. Guess I would have to put a Walmart bag on my head. Don’t think saddle bags on a bike will hold much.

I'm thinking you need something like a 1970s model Lincoln Continental to get you from place to place. They made some nice luxury cars back then.

 

[JoyJoyJoy]

I'm thinking you need something like a 1970s model Lincoln Continental to get you from place to place. They made some nice luxury cars back then.

I had 2 Oldsmobile 98s. Talk about a good riding car!!

 

[NewWine2020]

Electric Cars Are Bankrupting the Auto Industry
Only a government ban on cars can save them.
By Daniel Greenfield

Ford reported that it’s going to lose $3 billion on electric cars in 2023.

Unlike most automakers, Ford reports its electric vehicle numbers separately, but experts estimate that most car companies are losing similar amounts on the dead end business.

Ford’s investment in Rivian’s electric cars can’t be helping. Last year the startup electric pickup truck maker was spending $220,000 to make the electric vehicles that it sells for $81,000.

That’s bad news for George Soros and for CalPERS: California’s massive public employees retirement fund and a ticking time bomb which owns hundreds of thousands of shares in Rivian.

GM and Ford both project that their electric cars will be profitable in a few years. Ford plans to make 2 million electric cars every year by 2025. That would be impressive considering that Ford only sold 61,575 of them in 2022. It sold 3,624 electric vehicles in Feb 2023.

That’s a long way from 2 million.

GM plans to sell 1 million electric cars by 2025. It sold less than 40,000 in 2022.

Projections like these might make sense if GM and Ford had hot products and untapped market demand. Instead there are too many electric car models chasing a tiny market. Electric car sales have yet to break the million mark. Most of the electric car activity continues to be concentrated in the luxury SUV market which only has so many buyers able to afford them.

Even the “affordable” electric cars, like GM’s Bolt, start at $30,000, and lose as much as $9,000 for the company.

The only way to create demand for electric cars is through government mandates.

After 2035, if you want to buy a new car in California, it’s electric cars or it’s nothing. California’s mandates that fined car manufacturers, forcing them to buy credits from electric car makers like Tesla, financed the electric car industry. By 2035, California will simply eliminate the competition.

New York, New Jersey, Oregon and Washington have also moved to ban the sale of new cars. About a dozen Democrat states have similarly decided to prevent residents from buying cars. Virginia’s House voted to drop its car ban, but the state’s Senate Democrats have kept it in place. Biden has proposed a similar ban nationwide following its adoption by the EU.

By 2040, GM expects to stop making and selling cars on the assumption of such a ban.

George Soros has reportedly lost over $1 billion with his Rivian investment, and his other electric car investments may seem shaky, but in the long term the leftist politicians he has backed are expected to eliminate the competition and clear cars off the roads and highways.

Automakers are spending billions to build electric cars that no one wants and no one can afford because governments have assured them of a captive market. And after all that money flushed down the drain, their lobbyists are aggressively pressuring legislators to impose new bans and keep the existing bans in place. They’ve also been seduced with the promise of subsidies and tax credits that will free them from the pedestrian business of actually turning a profit.

Woke pension funds and party donors have kept the pressure on to see that it pays off.

Detroit’s bet that customers will just accept this as the new normal and just pay higher prices for worse performance is a bad one. The electric car mandates are the work of a Democrat party that is closely tied to a wealthy elite even as Republicans are becoming a working class party. Assuming that half the country will just accept being priced out of the car market when car ownership remains the key to economic and social mobility is as arrogant as it is clueless.

Even assuming that Republicans remain too dysfunctional and outmaneuvered to significantly roll back the leftist agenda, the new car market will drastically shrink. Americans, like Cubans, will desperately work to keep old cars going because for much of the country they will be the only option. The number of illegal cars on the road will dramatically increase. But as brownouts and energy shortages continue to hammer California and other blue states that have also gone all-in on solar and wind power, those will be the only cars that can actually remain on the road.

Woke car companies will have their monopoly handed to them only to find that it’s worthless.

Like their former European counterparts, American automakers will become even more deeply entangled with the government. The inverse spiral of subsidies and sales will climax in bankruptcies. Detroit has failed to innovate and electric car theater is no substitute for actually doing the work to make the cars that people want rather than the ones ad agencies try to make them want.

Letting government mandates instead of consumer demand drive sales is embraced by companies that have given up on even trying to make an appealing product. If electric vehicles were legitimately popular, it wouldn’t take a ban on cars to make them economically viable.

American automakers used to be revolutionary, now they’re the regime.

https://www.raptureforums.com/politics-culture-wars/electric-cars-are-bankrupting-the-auto-industry/

The whole industry is a joke. It couldnt exist unless propped up with money extorted from taxpayers ( govt subsidies) and/ or being "the only choice; EV for you or no car peasant!"

The reality is that our "betters" in the WEF and the brainwashed "young globalist leaders" who get indoctrinated by them don't WANT anyone but the elite to be able to travel any further than they can walk.

 

[NewWine2020]

Minnesota wanted to go all-green by 2030 (no way that could be up and running that fast, especially because of winter). Then it was EVs by 2030. Then it was 2040. Then 2050. Now they're looking at mandating new vehicle sales EVs or plug-in hybrids by 2040. Seems that very frigid temps and the batteries don't mix And there's the giant elephant in the room no one's talking about: used vehicle sales.

Nothing enacted, yet, but it's coming. Some of the things the State's looking at are the infrastructure to support the vehicles, how to make it "affordable," fast charging, mandating minimum ranges, and without messing up the environment to do it. Someone may have learned from what's happening in California and elsewhere (hopefully, anyway).

Hopefully it's all "smoke and mirrors" talk and no action, politicians pandering to their insane leftist voting base, telling them what they think they want to hear...

It's like how the arrival date of "true communism" kept getting shoved back further and further into the future in the old USSR.

 

[Carl]

Minnesota wanted to go all-green by 2030 (no way that could be up and running that fast, especially because of winter). Then it was EVs by 2030. Then it was 2040. Then 2050. Now they're looking at mandating new vehicle sales EVs or plug-in hybrids by 2040. Seems that very frigid temps and the batteries don't mix And there's the giant elephant in the room no one's talking about: used vehicle sales.

Yes the batteries have their own heater in a car. I will see if I can find the power they require.

 

[GHoe]

The worrying part of this article is the line where it says CALPERS owns hundreds of thousand of shares of Rivian. I'd say among other careers like teachers and water management type jobs about 75%+ of police and fire retirements are through Calpers. Its huge. My retirement comes from Calpers. Calpers recently sent out an email bragging about how they invest in ESG stocks (woke). What a bummer to read that. Calpers is huge, if it crashes, California will be over and it'll bring the nation down with it. It's all lining up for a disaster.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

The worrying part of this article is the line where it says CALPERS owns hundreds of thousand of shares of Rivian. I'd say among other careers like teachers and water management type jobs about 75%+ of police and fire retirements are through Calpers. Its huge. My retirement comes from Calpers. Calpers recently sent out an email bragging about how they invest in ESG stocks (woke). What a bummer to read that. Calpers is huge, if it crashes, California will be over and it'll bring the nation down with it. It's all lining up for a disaster.

MOLAGERS sends out a letter every year stating the health of the fund. IIRC, the last letter said they had 95 percent of whatever they would ever pay out on-hand in cash. I think it was 98 percent when I first retired. The information is also available online to members/retirees and employers. I don't get a lot, but still, it makes a difference.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

Hopefully it's all "smoke and mirrors" talk and no action, politicians pandering to their insane leftist voting base, telling them what they think they want to hear...

It's like how the arrival date of "true communism" kept getting shoved back further and further into the future in the old USSR.

No smoke and mirrors. The environment is huge in Minnesota, so there's a lot of interest in this, and lots of activity. At the same time, everyone here, except transplants that haven't been through it, understands winter.

 

[Tall Timbers]

The worrying part of this article is the line where it says CALPERS owns hundreds of thousand of shares of Rivian. I'd say among other careers like teachers and water management type jobs about 75%+ of police and fire retirements are through Calpers. Its huge. My retirement comes from Calpers. Calpers recently sent out an email bragging about how they invest in ESG stocks (woke). What a bummer to read that. Calpers is huge, if it crashes, California will be over and it'll bring the nation down with it. It's all lining up for a disaster.

One of my brothers has a really nice California pension. It enable him to live large. I've talked to him about the possibility of something happening that would cause the pension to either disappear or be greatly reduced and he's sure that could never happen... I think a lot of us are in for a lot of negative surprises down the short road.

 

[Jaybird]

One of my brothers has a really nice California pension. It enable him to live large. I've talked to him about the possibility of something happening that would cause the pension to either disappear or be greatly reduced and he's sure that could never happen... I think a lot of us are in for a lot of negative surprises down the short road.

Never say "never." Anything is possible.

 

[Tall Timbers]

Never say "never." Anything is possible.

I definitely agree with that!... well mostly. Some things are set.

 

[GHoe]

One of my brothers has a really nice California pension. It enable him to live large. I've talked to him about the possibility of something happening that would cause the pension to either disappear or be greatly reduced and he's sure that could never happen... I think a lot of us are in for a lot of negative surprises down the short road.

Agreed.. per Calpers 79% of their 440 billion (as of end of 2022) was tied up in "public markets". Calpers has been away from the fat pensions for about 7-8 years now but yes the 3% @ 50 formula for fire and PD made for some fat pockets among retirees. Now it's something like 2.7% @ 57 (which is still good)

 

[Carl]

If the auto industry is believing the climate change information then they deserve to go busted gearing up to convert their whole enterprise to making electric cars to save the world! Run by educated people that all got better grades than I got. And they can't see the lie?

 

[3 Nails 4 Given]

Yes the batteries have their own heater in a car. I will see if I can find the power they require.

A stage 1 EV charger requires 32 amps, that’s the minimum charger. A stage 2, which is minimum recommended, requires 50 amps. A stage 3 which is equal to a commercial charger requires 300 amps.

So if you find a electrician who would wire a 50 amp charger into a 100 amp service you’ll be lucky. I wouldn’t do it. If one had a 50 amp charger plugged in a 100 amp circuit and someone turned on the AC, dryer, or electric stove, more than likely a breaker will trip. If the breaker didn’t trip something would be in danger of catching fire.

In my humble opinion California has got to be the dumbest state in the union. Their power grid has rolling blackouts in the summer now, because it can’t handle the air conditioning load. Now they’re going to add hundreds of thousands of Electric Vehicles to this same power grid? What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

A stage 1 EV charger requires 32 amps, that’s the minimum charger. A stage 2, which is minimum recommended, requires 50 amps. A stage 3 which is equal to a commercial charger requires 300 amps.

So if you find a electrician who would wire a 50 amp charger into a 100 amp service you’ll be lucky. I wouldn’t do it. If one had a 50 amp charger plugged in a 100 amp circuit and someone turned on the AC, dryer, or electric stove, more than likely a breaker will trip. If the breaker didn’t trip something would be in danger of catching fire.

In my humble opinion California has got to be the dumbest state in the union. Their power grid has rolling blackouts in the summer now, because it can’t handle the air conditioning load. Now they’re going to add hundreds of thousands of Electric Vehicles to this same power grid? What could possibly go wrong?

What if one had three-phase service?


Also, how large of a battery bank running off of wind and/or solar would be needed?

Thanks.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

One of my brothers has a really nice California pension. It enable him to live large. I've talked to him about the possibility of something happening that would cause the pension to either disappear or be greatly reduced and he's sure that could never happen... I think a lot of us are in for a lot of negative surprises down the short road.

I think one of the most economically concerning things these days to me is if The Lord tarries and the USA goes bankrupt/part of a world economic system or breaks apart, what happens to my military pension? VA health care?

I know The Lord will provide and I just have to trust Him, so I don't worry. But God's given me some common sense and a brain, so not


9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Matthew 6:9-13, KJV


22 And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.
24 Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?
25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
26 If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?
27 Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
Luke 12:22-30, KJV