Eating and Drinking... Marriage and Giving in Marriage...

Released

Well-Known Member
Considerable debate has gone into Matthew 24:36-39, where Christ gives details of the Second Coming. Many interpret these passages to describe the Rapture, but this is not the case. An explanation:

'But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.'

Jesus makes some interesting claims here. First, he emphasizes no man will know the timing, as repeated in other verses throughout Matthew 24. This is heavily indicative of the pre-tribulation rapture, however the following provides more than enough evidence to support this context as the Second Coming. Jesus Christ on earth had two natures: human and divine. As God, He also exhibited human traits: hunger, anger, fatigue, etc. and the claim no one but the Father knew the timing of His Second Coming.

Does Christ know now? No doubt He does, since He is in Heaven now, at the right hand of the Father.

So Jesus goes on to describe conditions on earth at the time of Noah. Here, not only does Christ legitimize the events of a global Flood, but also distinguished the critical time of judgment upon a world completely unprepared for it.

In the days of Noah, humanity was extremely violent. People lived to be 900 years old, and angels copulated with women, giving rise to a terrifying race of evil giants who was racking havoc on the world. Would you call this normal?

Genesis 6:4- There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Now it could be argued- no, the sons of God were men!

In the Old Testament, any reference to the term 'son of God' referred to angels, since men had sinned, and had no hope of a savior. 'Son of God' is a New Testament term referring to a believer in Christ, or Christ Himself. This was not possible in Noah's time, or throughout the Old Testament.

Furthermore, this accelerated God's decision to destroy the earth with a flood. Let's look at what Christ says about eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage.

These seem to be completely normal actions, but in light of impending judgment, Noah could not persuade one person outside his family to come onboard. These people were eating and drinking, however. Why? They didn't believe God would destroy the world in a flood, Noah's claims were foolish! So in the end, out of millions of people, only eight were saved. This alone is beyond comprehension.

The context describes humanity's refusal to look past their activities- indulging in food and drink, preoccupied with relationships, all while ignoring the evil, wickedness, and unnatural situations around them... until they were drowning. Now can you see this is possible, even during the Great Tribulation?

In order to avoid confusion, this would help explain the second coming vs. rapture with the following passages: (Matthew 24:40-42)

Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Sounds like the rapture, right? Jesus adds: For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. -Matthew 24:28

What does this mean? It refers to the Great Supper of God, described in Revelation 19:17-21, an event taking place when Jesus returns. Those that are 'taken' are the wicked to be judged and slaughtered. Those 'left' are the saved elect to populate God's Kingdom during the Millennium. Compare this to Christ's parable of the wheat and tares of Matthew 13:30.

So when Jesus says, 'so shall also the coming of the Son of man be,' this is not a reference to the Rapture. He compared the wicked state of the antediluvian world- where conditions were far from normal, to the future world of the Great Tribulation- horrible conditions beyond description- right before His return to judge the world.

As a warning to anyone trying to deceive by date-setting, Christ in His wisdom described these events in such a way that only His elect during the Tribulation Period would know the precise timing of Christ's return by definite signs revealed in scripture.
 
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DanLMP

Well-Known Member
Does Christ know now? No doubt He does, since He is in Heaven now, at the right hand of the Father.
If the Rapture follows the Galilean wedding model, and I believe it does, I'm not so sure that even Jesus knows when He's supposed to come get us, yet. I don't know how a thing like that would work, considering that Jesus/Christ is a part of the God Head, but it has a logical argument.

I'm not locked in stone on that idea and frankly it does not really matter since we don't know when He's coming.
 

Deputyez

Member
I tend to agree with you and have thought so for quite a while. Good arguments can be made on both sides I guess but that this passage is referring to the second coming rather than the rapture seems to have the stronger case in my opinion.
I don't think this describes the second coming as if you know The Scriptures, the second coming will be approximately seven years after the rapture.
 

kathymendel

Well-Known Member
I think the words that they will be eating and drinking, etc. show this is referring to the rapture. At the end of the trib when Christ comes to earth to destroy His enemies and renew the earth, the world will be in chaos of nature and war and the antichrist. They will not be living life as we know it now, with security and safety and money, etc. They will not even be thinking of marriage ......... and, they will probably be scavenging for food. And, dying at an alarming rate, too.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I think the words that they will be eating and drinking, etc. show this is referring to the rapture. At the end of the trib when Christ comes to earth to destroy His enemies and renew the earth, the world will be in chaos of nature and war and the antichrist. They will not be living life as we know it now, with security and safety and money, etc. They will not even be thinking of marriage ......... and, they will probably be scavenging for food. And, dying at an alarming rate, too.
History IMO proves that life goes on even under horrendous conditions. During the massive weeks long bombing campaign in England during WWII, people still worked, and had weddings. Even schools were open, although the hours were tailored for the conditions. Same thing happened during the fire bombing in Japan.

I agree with others, these verses are not about the rapture, and I also believe Jesus never talked specifically about the rapture. Had He of done so, the Apostle Paul would not used the word “Mystery” in the below when he described the rapture.

1 Corinthians 15:
51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—

52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
 

aldanielle

Well-Known Member
I think the words that they will be eating and drinking, etc. show this is referring to the rapture. At the end of the trib when Christ comes to earth to destroy His enemies and renew the earth, the world will be in chaos of nature and war and the antichrist. They will not be living life as we know it now, with security and safety and money, etc. They will not even be thinking of marriage ......... and, they will probably be scavenging for food. And, dying at an alarming rate, too.
I second this.
 

penbrat

Well-Known Member
I think the words that they will be eating and drinking, etc. show this is referring to the rapture. At the end of the trib when Christ comes to earth to destroy His enemies and renew the earth, the world will be in chaos of nature and war and the antichrist. They will not be living life as we know it now, with security and safety and money, etc. They will not even be thinking of marriage ......... and, they will probably be scavenging for food. And, dying at an alarming rate, too.
I agree.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
For years, I also believed these were rapture verses. Then I stumbled across the old rapture ready forum, and most members agreed they were not about the rapture. I further studied this and came to the same conclusion. However, as we can see on this one thread, not all agree. The teachings on this forum almost all conclude Jesus did not teach or talk about the rapture.

Question: I have always wondered if Jesus made an oblique reference to the Rapture during the Olivet Discourse in Mt. 24.28 and Luke 17:37. His statement about “where the body is, there the eagles gather” appears to be a direct reply to the disciples’ question about the whereabouts of the woman grinding grain who was taken (Lk 17.35). That verse’s parallel is ordered differently in Matthew (Mt 24.41), and no interjected question is mentioned, so the connection may be less apparent in Matthew. I have never been very satisfied with other explanations of Jesus’ remark about bodies and vultures, and I would like to think He was not totally silent about the Rapture in the Olivet context, even if He left it for Paul to tell us the mystery.

Answer: The Greek word for eagle is also translated vulture and the one for body also means a corpse. But why wouldn’t Jesus be silent about the rapture in the Olivet Discourse? It will have already happened. And besides, the Olivet Discourse was for Israel, and the context is the End of the Age and the 2nd Coming. Israel is not involved in the rapture.
In the desert you find the location of a carcass (body) by looking up into the sky for the vultures (eagles). It’s the only place they gather. The Lord’s context in Matt. 24:23-28 is looking for the Messiah. Following the vulture / carcass analogy Jesus was telling those who will be alive on Earth at the time to look up into the sky to find Him, not some place on Earth.
In Luke 17:34-37 the Lord was talking about Tribulation survivors, just like He was in Matt. 24:40-41, and He used the same Greek words, taken and left. The word translated taken means to receive to Himself, and the word for left means to put away. These words can only describe what happens at the 2nd Coming, so the disciples’ question “Where, Lord?” in verse 37 pertains to both groups. Believers will be received to Him and will enter the Kingdom. Unbelievers will be put away, taken off the planet. It’s a summary of the Sheep and Goat judgment, and does not describe the rapture. He was using the vulture / carcass analogy to say that each group will gathered in the place where they belong.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/did-jesus-mention-the-rapture/
 

usoutpost31

Well-Known Member
I think the words that they will be eating and drinking, etc. show this is referring to the rapture. At the end of the trib when Christ comes to earth to destroy His enemies and renew the earth, the world will be in chaos of nature and war and the antichrist. They will not be living life as we know it now, with security and safety and money, etc. They will not even be thinking of marriage ......... and, they will probably be scavenging for food. And, dying at an alarming rate, too.
I like what Thomas Ice, Robert Govett and others have said about this passage. "Eating and drinking" implies a love of the world, a desire for things to continue on the way they once were, and not paying attention to solemn warnings. Same with "marrying and giving in marriage"; making long term plans with no concern that judgement is going to fall upon them.

As Govett put it, if they believed the message of wrath being preached in the Tribulation, they wouldn't be "eating and drinking", they'd be fasting and weeping.
 

RobinMc

Well-Known Member
I think of eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage and in the days of Lot, the same plus building and planting, as life going on as usual. If this is referring to the second coming, it doesn't seem like times will be that rough.
I would never argue over things like this in the Bible, because I don't claim to be an expert on anything, but when I read it, that's how I feel.
 

kathymendel

Well-Known Member
History IMO proves that life goes on even under horrendous conditions. During the massive weeks long bombing campaign in England during WWII, people still worked, and had weddings. Even schools were open, although the hours were tailored for the conditions. Same thing happened during the fire bombing in Japan.

I agree with others, these verses are not about the rapture, and I also believe Jesus never talked specifically about the rapture. Had He of done so, the Apostle Paul would not used the word “Mystery” in the below when he described the rapture.

1 Corinthians 15:
51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—

52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
Yes, Andy, you are right.................BUT. You cite past wars and world conditions. We are told that in the tribulations things will be much, much worse than they have ever been before. It won't even be related to the devestations of the past........... it will be worse than anything we can imagine. You are comparing apples with oranges.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Yes, Andy, you are right.................BUT. You cite past wars and world conditions. We are told that in the tribulations things will be much, much worse than they have ever been before. It won't even be related to the devestations of the past........... it will be worse than anything we can imagine. You are comparing apples with oranges.
You could be right, who knows? However the judgements are not non stop, and there will be time in between. Granted, the world will be in chaos, but even amongst all that will be happening, people will still find to do different things that we think wont be possible.

For me, it really does not matter because all the wise ones will be removed, and wont be here to witness the full wrath from God.
 

aldanielle

Well-Known Member
Yes, Andy, you are right.................BUT. You cite past wars and world conditions. We are told that in the tribulations things will be much, much worse than they have ever been before. It won't even be related to the devestations of the past........... it will be worse than anything we can imagine. You are comparing apples with oranges.
I didn’t know how to word a response but this is absolutely my thought!! Those times will not compare at all to anything in history.
 

Salluz

Aspiring Man of God
I'd say to take a look at something like Rev. 6:

5 When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. 6 Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two pounds[a] of wheat for a day’s wages,[b] and six pounds[c] of barley for a day’s wages,[d] and do not damage the oil and the wine!”

Things necessary to live off of will go up in price, but the rich will still be able to access their oil and wine through at least this judgment. Makes it seem like there will st least be a relatively well-off portion of the unsaved that live decadently in between judgments. They will spend the judgments in fear of the Almighty and cursing him, but in between judgments will be engaging in every decadent sin imaginable. Before Bablyon is destroyed it will have grown to the point where every unsaved person mourns its loss as per Rev 18

9 “When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury see the smoke of her burning, they will weep and mourn over her. 10 Terrified at her torment, they will stand far off and cry:
“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,
you mighty city of Babylon!
In one hour your doom has come!’
11 “The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes anymore— 12 cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; 13 cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and human beings sold as slaves.
14 “They will say, ‘The fruit you longed for is gone from you. All your luxury and splendor have vanished, never to be recovered.’ 15 The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her torment. They will weep and mourn 16 and cry out:
“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,
dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet,
and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!
17 In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!’
“Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off. 18 When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, ‘Was there ever a city like this great city?’ 19 They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out:
“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,
where all who had ships on the sea
became rich through her wealth!
In one hour she has been brought to ruin!’
20 “Rejoice over her, you heavens!
Rejoice, you people of God!
Rejoice, apostles and prophets!
For God has judged her
with the judgment she imposed on you.”

The destruction of Bablyon happens right before the unsaved begin to gather to wage a final war against Jesus in Rev. 19 and is part of the seventh bowl judgment in Rev. 16

17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. 20 Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. 21 From the sky huge hailstones, each weighing about a hundred pounds,[a] fell on people. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.

So Bablyon will exist in her sinful revelry in all the splendor a fallen earth can offer until the very tail end of the tribulation
 

Kem

Citizen
History IMO proves that life goes on even under horrendous conditions. During the massive weeks long bombing campaign in England during WWII, people still worked, and had weddings. Even schools were open, although the hours were tailored for the conditions. Same thing happened during the fire bombing in Japan.
I agree with you Andy. Even though in much of the world things will be even worse than in previous wars, people will certainly still eat, drink and get married.
 

RobinB

Well-Known Member
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Sounds like the rapture, right? Jesus adds: For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. -Matthew 24:28

What does this mean? It refers to the Great Supper of God, described in Revelation 19:17-21, an event taking place when Jesus returns. Those that are 'taken' are the wicked to be judged and slaughtered. Those 'left' are the saved elect to populate God's Kingdom during the Millennium. Compare this to Christ's parable of the wheat and tares of Matthew 13:30.

Question --If those that are taken are the wicked, and not the good, how would that work? If I am not taken, then I will wonder if I was left behind for not being a true believer or if I was left behind as one of the saved? Does that make sense?
 
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