Does God hear/honor prayers to Mary or the saints?

Rocky Rivera

Well-Known Member
Praying to Mary or anyone else other than God? That's IDOLATRY, and no idolater shall enter Heaven. Exodus 20:5, "you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me"

I was raised in the Catholic church; when I was a small boy I even performed altar-boy services. But whenever I prayed, there was nothing from Heaven but dead silence. Not even a NO. And why? God will not answer the prayers of an idolater, which is what I was before coming to Christ.
 

Batfan7

Well-Known Member
Yes, for the most part and I don’t agree with the current Pope. In fact, I’m quite sure he’s a communist sympathizer. However, I stay because Jesus said that that the gates of hell shall not prevail and when Jesus says that it means that hell will be right in all of our churches, but they won’t win.

However, I don’t think we are all as far apart as people think we are and I like the news articles and some of the ideas that are presented here. Also, many Catholics don’t even understand biblically why Catholics believe what they believe, I took the time to study all of it and it was very enlightening. The bottom line is that Jesus died on the cross for all of our sins and that made it possible for us to get to heaven. This is the base of all Christian faiths. So by most Protestant standards if sins are forgiven, past, present and future then Catholics who believe this are all saved despite going to confession etc. All Catholics are taught about the sacrifice Jesus made for us at a very young age and I have never been taught any other way besides Jesus to get to heaven. That is what the whole season of Lent is about and making sacrifices to Jesus by not eating meat or giving something up and mediating on Fridays in Lent is thinking about his suffering on the cross for our sins. We don’t do those things to get to heaven, it’s to be closer to Jesus and to become more like him. Catholics believe Jesus is coming at the very end of the tribulation period to Judge the living and the dead, even though they don’t call this the Rapture it is the same idea.

If you look at all the Eastern Churches which were started by the other Apostles, they are very similar to the Catholic Church in practice. I’m talking about Greek Orthodox, Ethiopian (Which is the oldest unchanged Christian Religion today) Byzantine, Armenian, Syrian and others. If I truly had my choice of which Church I would be in, it would be the Ethiopian Church, but its a long way for me to drive to the closest congregation, so I just stay where I’m at.

Sounds to me like you have the most important part down. Most Protestants think all Catholics are either "cultural Christians" (meaning they either have parents who are Catholics or have attended Mass and they then believe that these things make them Catholic and qualified for Heaven) or Protestants think Catholics are works based (must be baptized, say Hail Mary, go to Confession, etc. And if you do those things, then you get to Heaven). But my mother-in-law was a Catholic and after talking to her, I'm fairly convinced that she was indeed saved and from your post, you are too.

I have lots of issues with Catholic doctrine (the verse you quoted, for example, about "the gates of Hell" would apply to a broader definition of church to include all believers, not just those who now to the Pope. Or the whole concept of Purgatory is comply anti-Biblical because it truly is a works-based thing). But if you bypass that kind of nonsense, then the Catholic Church absolutely can have some good theology teachings over the last couple millennia. If you are comfortable there, then more power to you!
 

zoeysyaya

New Member
What does the Bible say about praying to the dead?
Question: "What does the Bible say about praying to / speaking to / talking to the dead?"

Answer:
Praying to the dead is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Deuteronomy 18:11 tells us that anyone who “consults with the dead” is “detestable to the Lord.” The story of Saul consulting a medium to bring up the spirit of the dead Samuel resulted in his death “because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance” (1 Samuel 28:1-25; 1 Chronicles 10:13-14). Clearly, God has declared that such things are not to be done.


Consider the characteristics of God. God is omnipresent—everywhere at once—and is capable of hearing every prayer in the world (Psalm 139:7-12). A human being, on the other hand, does not possess this attribute. Also, God is the only one with the power to answer prayer. God is omnipotent—all powerful (Revelation 19:6). Certainly this is an attribute a human being—dead or alive—does not possess. Finally, God is omniscient—He knows everything (Psalm 147:4-5). Even before we pray, God knows our genuine needs and knows them better than we do. Not only does He know our needs, but He answers our prayers according to His perfect will.

So, in order for a dead person to receive prayers, the dead individual has to hear the prayer, possess the power to answer it, and know how to answer it in a way that is best for the individual praying. Only God hears and answers prayer because of His perfect essence and because of what some theologians call His “immanence.” Immanence is the quality of God that causes Him to be directly involved with the affairs of mankind (1 Timothy 6:14-15); this includes answering prayer.

Even after a person dies, God is still involved with that person and his destination. Hebrews 9:27 says so: “…Man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.” If a person dies in Christ, he goes to heaven to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:1-9, especially verse 8); if a person dies in his sin, he goes to hell, and eventually everyone in hell will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14-15).

God has provided His Son, Jesus Christ, to be the mediator between man and God (1 Timothy 2:5). With Jesus Christ as our mediator, we can go through Jesus to God. Why would we want to go through a sinful dead individual, especially when doing so risks the wrath of God?

https://www.gotquestions.org/praying-to-the-dead.html
I've been wondering, do Catholics who love Jesus, go to heaven? The thing that troubles me is, they confess their sins to a priest, who supposedly represents Jesus but he isn't Jesus. I feel horrible for those people. What do you think?
 

Rocky Rivera

Well-Known Member
Honestly he made some attempts. on times when he got so confused on whom to believe (whether his parents or me), he started reading the bible...Coz I told him, he will find the truth in the scriptures and i asked him to read it without religious bias or whatsoever. He read from Matthew to Luke and then genesis to deuteronomy... Perhaps he got so overwhlemed with the situation that he read so fast... without necessarily understanding or being given the wisdom to understand what he read. Unfortunately, the more he read the bible, the more he felt frustrated because the verses he read seems to convict him to honor and obey his parents... worse, it also made him believe what the catholics claim that Mary is the Ark of the new covenant, as he read in Luke where mary was overshadowed by God when the angel appeared to her and compared it to what was written in Exodus where the tabernacle with the ark in it was overshadowed by God as well... on the good side of it, he said he understood that the bible is about God's love.

I spent time studying about the ark of the covenant and have discussed it with him on how it represented Jesus. He said he clearly understood my point but still seems to doubt if my "interpretation" is the truth. Coz he always keep on saying, at the end of the day, people will always have their own interpretation of the bible, whether mine, or the pastors', or the priests' or anyone else's
Sorry to say, but this means he has no interest of his own to seek after Jesus. All find what they truly seek.
 

Rocky Rivera

Well-Known Member
As a former Catholic, I would say God hates those prayers made to idols. God hates idolatry. Usually the only prayer God wants to hear from an unbeliever is one made to Him asking for forgiveness and salvation.
 

chaser

We trust you Jesus, you are the only King forever!
Unless you repent , turn from your sin and ask forgiveness of you sins you can not enter the kingdom of God, only born again souls enter the Kingdom of God.
Question: "Does John 3:5 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?"

Answer:
As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches by first filtering it through what we know the Bible teaches on the subject at hand. In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation, is a faulty interpretation. For more information, please visit our webpage on "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"

John 3:3-7, “Jesus answered and said to him, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.' Nicodemus said to Him, 'How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?' Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'"

When first considering this passage, it is important to note that nowhere in the context of the passage is baptism even mentioned. While baptism is mentioned later in this chapter (John 3:22-30), that is in a totally different setting (Judea instead of Jerusalem) and at a different time from the discussion with Nicodemus. This is not to say Nicodemus was unfamiliar with baptism, either from the Jewish practice of baptizing Gentile converts to Judaism, or from John the Baptist’s ministry. However, simply reading these verses in context would give one no reason to assume Jesus was speaking of baptism, unless one was looking to read into the passage a preconceived idea or theology. To automatically read baptism into this verse simply because it mentions “water” is unwarranted.

Those who hold baptism to be required for salvation point to “born of water” as evidence. As one person has put it, “Jesus describes it and tells him plainly how—by being born of water and the Spirit. This is a perfect description of baptism! Jesus could not have given a more detailed and accurate explanation of baptism.” However, had Jesus actually wanted to say that one must be baptized to be saved, He clearly could have simply stated, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is baptized and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Further, if Jesus had made such a statement, He would have contradicted numerous other Bible passages that make it clear that salvation is by faith (John 3:16; John 3:36; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5).

We should also not lose sight of the fact that when Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus, the ordinance of Christian baptism was not yet in effect. This important inconsistency in interpreting Scripture is seen when one asks those who believe baptism is required for salvation why the thief on the cross did not need to be baptized to be saved. A common reply to that question is: “The thief on the cross was still under the Old Covenant and therefore not subject to this baptism. He was saved just like anyone else under the Old Covenant.” So, in essence, the same people who say the thief did not need to be baptized because he was “under the Old Covenant” will use John 3:5 as “proof” that baptism is necessary for salvation. They insist that Jesus is telling Nicodemus that he must be baptized to be saved, even though he too was under the Old Covenant. If the thief on the cross was saved without being baptized (because he was under the Old Covenant), why would Jesus tell Nicodemus (who was also under the Old Covenant) that he needed to be baptized?

If “being born of water and the Spirit” is not referring to baptism, then what does it mean? Traditionally, there have been two interpretations of this phrase. The first is that being “born of water” is being used by Jesus to refer to natural birth (with water referring to the amniotic fluid that surrounds the baby in the womb) and that being born of the “Spirit” indicates spiritual birth. While that is certainly a possible interpretation of the term “born of water” and would seem to fit the context of Nicodemus’ question about how a man could be born “when he is old,” it is not the best interpretation given the context of this passage. After all, Jesus was not talking about the difference between natural birth and spiritual birth. What He was doing was explaining to Nicodemus his need to be “born from above” or “born again.”

The second common interpretation of this passage and the one that best fits the overall context, not only of this passage but of the Bible as a whole, is the one that sees the phrase “born of water and the Spirit” as both describing different aspects of the same spiritual birth, or of what it means to be “born again” or “born from above.” So, when Jesus told Nicodemus that he must “be born of water and the Spirit,” He was not referring to literal water (i.e. baptism or the amniotic fluid in the womb), but was referring to the need for spiritual cleansing or renewal. Throughout the Old Testament (Psalm 51:2,7; Ezekiel 36:25) and the New Testament (John 13:10; 15:3; 1 Corinthians 6:11; Hebrews 10:22), water is often used figuratively of spiritual cleansing or regeneration that is brought forth by the Holy Spirit, through the Word of God, at the moment of salvation (Ephesians 5:26; Titus 3:5).

The Barclay Daily Study Bible describes this concept in this way: “There are two thoughts here. Water is the symbol of cleansing. When Jesus takes possession of our lives, when we love Him with all our heart, the sins of the past are forgiven and forgotten. The Spirit is the symbol of power. When Jesus takes possession of our lives it is not only that the past is forgotten and forgiven; if that were all, we might well proceed to make the same mess of life all over again; but into life there enters a new power which enables us to be what by ourselves we could never be and to do what by ourselves we could never do. Water and the Spirit stand for the cleansing and the strengthening power of Christ, which wipes out the past and gives victory in the future.”

Therefore, the “water” mentioned in this verse is not literal physical water but rather the “living water” Jesus promised the woman at the well in John 4:10 and the people in Jerusalem in John 7:37-39. It is the inward purification and renewal produced by the Holy Spirit that brings forth spiritual life to a dead sinner (Ezekiel 36:25-27; Titus 3:5). Jesus reinforces this truth in John 3:7 when He restates that one must be born again and that this newness of life can only be produced by the Holy Spirit (John 3:8).

There are several reasons why this is the correct interpretation of the phrase born of water and the Spirit. First of all, we should note that Nicodemus found his literal interpretation of born again to be incomprehensible. He could not understand how a grown man could re-enter his mother’s womb and be “born again” physically (John 3:4). Jesus restates what He had just told Nicodemus, this time making a distinction between flesh and spirit (verse 6). Interestingly, the Greek word translated “again” or “anew” in John 3:3 and 7 has two possible meanings: the first one is “again,” and the second one is “from above.” “Born again,” “born from above,” and “born of water and Spirit” are three ways of saying the same thing.

Second, the grammar in John 3:5 would seem to indicate “being born of water” and “being born of the Spirit” are thought of as one action, not two. Therefore, it is not speaking of two separate births, as Nicodemus incorrectly thought, but of one birth, that of being “born from above” or the spiritual birth that is necessary for anyone to “see the kingdom of God.” This need for one to be “born again,” or to experience spiritual birth, is so important that Jesus tells Nicodemus of its necessity three different times in this passage of Scripture (John 3:3, 3:5, 3:7).

Third, water is often used symbolically in the Bible to refer to the work of the Holy Spirit in sanctifying a believer, whereby God cleanses and purifies the believer’s heart or soul. In many places in both the Old and New Testaments, the work of the Holy Spirit is compared to water (Isaiah 44:3; John 7:38-39).

Jesus rebukes Nicodemus in John 3:10 by asking him: “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not understand these things?” This implies that what Jesus had just told him was something Nicodemus should have known and understood from the Old Testament. What is it that Nicodemus, as a teacher of the Old Testament, should have known and understood? It is that God had promised in the Old Testament a time was coming in which He would: “sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.” (Ezekiel 36:25-27). Jesus rebuked Nicodemus because he failed to recall and understand one of the key Old Testament passages pertaining to the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:33). Nicodemus should have been expecting this. Why would Jesus have rebuked Nicodemus for not understanding baptism considering the fact that baptism is nowhere mentioned in the Old Testament?

While this verse does not teach baptism is required for salvation, we should be careful not to neglect baptism’s importance. Baptism is the sign or the symbol for what takes place when one is born again. Baptism’s importance should not be downplayed or minimized. However, baptism does not save us. What saves us is the cleansing work of the Holy Spirit, when we are born again and regenerated by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5).

https://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-John-3-5.html
 

Coram Deo777

Well-Known Member
I've been wondering, do Catholics who love Jesus, go to heaven? The thing that troubles me is, they confess their sins to a priest, who supposedly represents Jesus but he isn't Jesus. I feel horrible for those people. What do you think?
If they have the Jesus of Scripture then yes! But if their Jesus is the Jesus of Catholicism then No! Christianity is an Objective faith (1 John 5:12)-iow if a person loves Jesus, who is this Jesus that they love? Love for Jesus is not a sign of salvation. There are many people who claim they love Jesus but it's a Jesus of their own imagination that cannot save them. Does your friend love the Jesus of The Roman Catholic church who didn't pay for ALL our sins at the cross and thinks they have many hoops to jump through to stay out of mortal sin, Missing a feast day.. Mortal sin. Missing mass.. Mortal sin. Eat meat on Friday…mortal sin (during Lent). On and on and on. The Gospel according to Scripture 1 Cor. 15 is the Gospel! Remember Paul said in Galatians 1:8 "As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 1 Corinthians 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema!" Does the Catholic Church preach another Gospel? Yes, sadly they do according to the Counsel of Trent Cannon 9- "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema," The Bible says "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. ." ~Ephesians 2:8-9. Jesus said, "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ and deceive many.'"~Matthew 24:4-5.
 

seated with Christ

Well-Known Member
We love and honor Mary, but she doesn‘t receive our prayers. She is not the Mother of God neither is she a virgin after the birth of her other children.

All that have been saved by the sacrifice of Jesus are saints, the word saint simply mean sanctified.
 

crossnote

fully dependent upon His grace
She is not the Mother of God...
Here is the slippery argument (at least the Crypto Catholic Lutherans used)
They will ask you
"Isn't Jesus God?"
"Wasn't Mary His Mother?" ..."Therefore Mary is the Mother of God."

The way to counter this is..
Yes, Jesus is the God/man.
Mary was His Mother after His humanity
but now...

2 Corinthians 5:16 (KJV) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
 

Psalm37v4

Well-Known Member
Here is the slippery argument (at least the Crypto Catholic Lutherans used)
They will ask you
"Isn't Jesus God?"
"Wasn't Mary His Mother?" ..."Therefore Mary is the Mother of God."

The way to counter this is..
Yes, Jesus is the God/man.
Mary was His Mother after His humanity
but now...

2 Corinthians 5:16 (KJV) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
Remind them also that just because Jesus is GOD, God Himself has no mother. He simply is. Our human minds can't always comprehend that, but it's the truth.
Most Catholics buy into what they hear at Mass, on TV, or radio. They think that since Mary is Jesus' mother, that makes her closer to God. But...Mary was only responsible for giving birth to and raising Him. The HOLY SPIRIT impregnated her. God used her to bring Jesus into the earth. So, technically she isn't really His mother. She simply played a role and obeyed God. NOTHING MORE.
 

crossnote

fully dependent upon His grace
Remind them also that just because Jesus is GOD, God Himself has no mother. He simply is. Our human minds can't always comprehend that, but it's the truth.
If they don't know that much, I treat them as unsaved/unregenerate and will give them the Gospel and not get wound up in the Mary controversy. First things first.
 

Seashell

Active Member
Honestly he made some attempts. on times when he got so confused on whom to believe (whether his parents or me), he started reading the bible...Coz I told him, he will find the truth in the scriptures and i asked him to read it without religious bias or whatsoever. He read from Matthew to Luke and then genesis to deuteronomy... Perhaps he got so overwhlemed with the situation that he read so fast... without necessarily understanding or being given the wisdom to understand what he read. Unfortunately, the more he read the bible, the more he felt frustrated because the verses he read seems to convict him to honor and obey his parents... worse, it also made him believe what the catholics claim that Mary is the Ark of the new covenant, as he read in Luke where mary was overshadowed by God when the angel appeared to her and compared it to what was written in Exodus where the tabernacle with the ark in it was overshadowed by God as well... on the good side of it, he said he understood that the bible is about God's love.

I spent time studying about the ark of the covenant and have discussed it with him on how it represented Jesus. He said he clearly understood my point but still seems to doubt if my "interpretation" is the truth. Coz he always keep on saying, at the end of the day, people will always have their own interpretation of the bible, whether mine, or the pastors', or the priests' or anyone else's
It is hard to understand because if you read Luke 1:41 it says When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

If you pay attention to it, it’s the Holy Spirit talking through Elizabeth and he called Mary the mother of my Lord, speaking through Elizabeth.
 
Last edited:

chaser

We trust you Jesus, you are the only King forever!
It is hard to understand because if you read Luke 1:41 it says When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting
A little background on Elizabeth,
Elizabeth in the Bible
audio
Question: "Who was Elizabeth in the Bible?"

Answer:
Elizabeth in the Bible was the wife of a priest named Zechariah; she was also a cousin of Mary, the mother of Jesus. Elizabeth and Zechariah are called “righteous and blameless” people who walked in all the commandments of the Lord (Luke 1:6). Elizabeth was barren; she was unable to have children (Luke 1:7). When Elizabeth is first mentioned in the Bible, she is an old woman, or as Luke puts it, “advanced in years” (Luke 1:7). This could mean anything from late middle-age to old age. In any case, she was past child-bearing age (Luke 1:18).

When Zechariah was in the temple offering incense to the Lord, the angel Gabriel appeared to him, saying that he and Elizabeth would soon be parents; they were to name the baby John. This baby would grow up to be “great before the Lord” and bring joy and gladness to them, as well as to many other people (Luke 1:14–15). Zechariah was doubtful because of his wife’s age and the fact that he was himself old (Luke 1:18), so Gabriel—the same angel who appeared later to Mary—told Zechariah that he would be unable to speak until the prophecy was fulfilled in the birth of John (Luke 1:19–20, 26–27).

Elizabeth, when finding herself pregnant, kept herself in seclusion for five months. She said, “The Lord has done this for me. . . . In these days he has shown his favor and taken away my disgrace among the people” (Luke 1:25). Six months after Elizabeth conceived, Mary also became pregnant, and she went to visit Elizabeth, because Gabriel had told her of Elizabeth’s pregnancy (Luke 1:36–37). It is a sign of God’s love and care that he placed these women in the same family. He could have just as easily made them strangers to one another, but, by making them relatives, He gave them mutual comfort and encouragement. Especially for Mary, the experience of being pregnant outside of wedlock must have been frightening and shocking. But God provided Elizabeth as a comforting presence—a trusted and known relation and older woman who was going through a similarly miraculous event (Luke 1:38–45).

As soon as Mary arrived at Elizabeth’s home and Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, “the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: ‘Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!’” (Luke 1:41–45). The Holy Spirit told Elizabeth of Mary’s condition even before Mary could say a word.

Eight days after Elizabeth’s child was born, several neighbors and relatives were there for the ceremony of circumcision. It was during this time that children were officially given their names, and Elizabeth declared her baby’s name to be John—Zechariah was still unable to speak. The neighbors questioned Elizabeth about the name; none of her relatives had ever been called John—certainly they should name him Zechariah. But Zechariah procured a tablet and wrote on it the name of John. In this he showed his faith in the angel’s prophecy, and, with that, Zechariah was able to speak again (Luke 1:57–64).

Elizabeth’s son grew up to be John the Baptist, who ministered “before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah” (Luke 1:17) and was the prophet who prepared the way of the Lord, fulfilling Malachi’s prophecy (Malachi 3:1; Luke 1:76; John 3:1–6).

video GQkidz virgin Mary
audio

Question: "What does the Bible say about the virgin Mary?"

Answer:
Mary the mother of Jesus was described by God as “highly favored” (Luke 1:28). The phrase highly favored comes from a single Greek word, which essentially means “much grace.” Mary received God’s grace.

hqdefault.jpg


Grace is “unmerited favor”; that is, grace is a blessing we receive despite the fact that we do not deserve it. Mary needed grace from God and a Savior, just as the rest of us do. Mary herself understood this fact, as she declared in Luke 1:47, “My spirit rejoices in God my Savior.”

The virgin Mary, by God’s grace, recognized that she needed the Savior. The Bible never says that Mary was anyone but an ordinary human whom God chose to use in an extraordinary way. Yes, Mary was a righteous woman and favored (graced) by God (Luke 1:27–28). At the same time, Mary was a sinful human being who needed Jesus Christ as her Savior, just like everyone else (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 6:23; 1 John 1:8).

The virgin Mary did not have an “immaculate conception.” The Bible doesn’t suggest Mary’s birth was anything but a normal human birth. Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus (Luke 1:34–38), but she was not a virgin permanently. The idea of the perpetual virginity of Mary is unbiblical. Matthew 1:25, speaking of Joseph, declares, “But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus.” The word until clearly indicates that Joseph and Mary did have normal sexual relations after Jesus was born. Mary remained a virgin until the Savior’s birth, but later Joseph and Mary had several children together. Jesus had four half-brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). Jesus also had half-sisters, although they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:55–56). God blessed and graced Mary by giving her several children, which in that culture was accepted as the clearest indication of God’s blessing on a woman.

One time when Jesus was speaking, a woman in the crowd proclaimed, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed” (Luke 11:27). There was never a better opportunity for Jesus to declare that Mary was indeed worthy of praise and adoration. What was Jesus’ response? “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it” (Luke 11:28). To Jesus, obedience to God’s Word was more important than being the woman who gave birth to the Savior.

Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus or anyone else direct any praise, glory, or adoration toward Mary. Elizabeth, Mary’s relative, praised Mary in Luke 1:42–44, but her praise is based on the blessing of giving birth to the Messiah. It was not based on any inherent glory in Mary. In fact, after this Mary spoke a song of praise to the Lord, extoling His mindfulness to those of humble state and His mercy and faithfulness (Luke 1:46–55).

Many believe that Mary was one of Luke’s sources for the writing of his Gospel (see Luke 1:1–4). Luke records the angel Gabriel visiting Mary and telling her that she would give birth to a son who would be the Savior. Mary was unsure how this could be since she was a virgin. When Gabriel told her that the child would be conceived by the Holy Spirit, Mary answered, "I am the Lord’s servant. . . . May your word to me be fulfilled. Then the angel left her" (Luke 1:38). Mary responded with belief and a willingness to submit to God’s plan. We, too, should have such faith in God and trustingly follow Him.

In describing the events of Jesus’ birth and the response of those who heard the shepherds’ message about Jesus, Luke writes, "But Mary treasured up all these things, pondering them in her heart" (Luke 2:19). When Joseph and Mary presented Jesus at the temple, Simeon recognized that Jesus was the Savior and gave God praise. Joseph and Mary marveled at what Simeon had said. Simeon also told Mary, "Behold, this child is appointed for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is opposed (and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), so that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed" (Luke 2:34–35).

Another time at the temple, when Jesus was twelve, Mary was upset that Jesus had remained behind when His parents had left for Nazareth. They were distressed in looking for Him. When they found Him, still in the temple, He said He must be in His Father’s house (Luke 2:49). Jesus returned to Nazareth with His earthly parents and submitted to them. We are told, again, that Mary "treasured up all these things in her heart" (Luke 2:51). Raising Jesus must have been a perplexing endeavor yet also filled with precious moments, perhaps memories that became more poignant as Mary came to more fully understand who Jesus is. We, too, can treasure in our hearts the knowledge of God and the memories of His activity in our lives.

It was Mary who requested Jesus’ intervention at the wedding of Cana, where He performed His first miracle and turned water into wine. Even though Jesus seemingly rebuffed her at first, Mary instructed the servants to do what He told them. She had faith in Him (John 2:1–11).

Later in Jesus’ public ministry, His family grew concerned. Mark 3:20–21 records, "The crowd gathered again, so that they could not even eat. And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for they were saying, 'He is out of his mind.'" When His family arrived, Jesus proclaimed that it is those who do the will of God who are His family. Jesus’ brothers did not believe in Him prior to the crucifixion, but at least two of them did afterward—James and Jude (Judas), the authors of the New Testament books bearing their names.

Mary did seem to believe in Jesus throughout His life. She was present at the cross when Jesus died (John 19:25), no doubt feeling the “sword” that Simeon had prophesied would pierce her soul. It was there at the cross that Jesus asked John to serve as Mary’s son, and John took Mary into his home (John 19:26–27). Mary was also with the apostles on the day of Pentecost (Acts 1:14). However, Mary is never mentioned again after Acts chapter 1.

The apostles did not give Mary a prominent role. Mary’s death is not recorded in the Bible. Nothing is said about Mary ascending to heaven or having an exalted role there. As the earthly mother of Jesus, Mary should be respected, but she is not worthy of our worship or adoration.

The Bible nowhere indicates that Mary can hear our prayers or that she can mediate for us with God. Jesus is our only advocate and mediator in heaven (1 Timothy 2:5). If offered worship, adoration, or prayers, Mary would say the same as the angels: “Worship God!” (see Revelation 19:10; 22:9.) Mary herself sets the example for us, directing her worship, adoration, and praise to God alone: “My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for He has been mindful of the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me — holy is His name” (Luke 1:46–49).

Mary was the vessel God chose to birth and raise the Messiah Jesus. Mary is the mother of the human side of Jesus, not his Deity, he is God in the flesh and man.
 
Last edited:

crossnote

fully dependent upon His grace
It is hard to understand because if you read Luke 1:41 it says When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

If you pay attention to it, it’s the Holy Spirit talking through Elizabeth and it called Mary the mother of my Lord.
Do you mean 'He' called Mary the mother of my Lord?
 

Seashell

Active Member
Do you mean 'He' called Mary the mother of my Lord?
Mary has no power except what is given to her by Jesus, but Jesus was God who came down as man and was crucified on the cross to make it possible for us to be saved from our sins/. You can’t separate Jesus from God or the Holy Spirit because they are all one in the same. Mary is completely human in all aspects not a deity, but she is special in the fact that God chose her to be his mother. It is possible she knew that Jesus would be sacrificed and was saved by Jesus prior to the Holy Spirit overshadowing her. If you look at the Arc of the 1st covenant, you see that box had to be perfectly made in order to carry the Staff of the High Priest, The Bread of Life and the Word of God. Mary also carried all three as well and I heard it said she had to be saved ahead of time in order to carry the Lord Jesus. Another interesting verse to look at is:

2:34 Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is appointed for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is opposed 35(and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), so that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed.” I can’t even begin to imagine the sorrow that went through her heart watching her son die on the cross. It breaks my heart just thinking about it, so that’s the sword that went through her heart, but what does thoughts from many hearts may be revealed mean?
 

crossnote

fully dependent upon His grace
Mary has no power except what is given to her by Jesus, but Jesus was God who came down as man and was crucified on the cross to make it possible for us to be saved from our sins/. You can’t separate Jesus from God or the Holy Spirit because they are all one in the same. Mary is completely human in all aspects not a deity, but she is special in the fact that God chose her to be his mother. It is possible she knew that Jesus would be sacrificed and was saved by Jesus prior to the Holy Spirit overshadowing her. If you look at the Arc of the 1st covenant, you see that box had to be perfectly made in order to carry the Staff of the High Priest, The Bread of Life and the Word of God. Mary also carried all three as well and I heard it said she had to be saved ahead of time in order to carry the Lord Jesus. Another interesting verse to look at is:

2:34 Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is appointed for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is opposed 35(and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), so that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed.” I can’t even begin to imagine the sorrow that went through her heart watching her son die on the cross. It breaks my heart just thinking about it, so that’s the sword that went through her heart, but what does thoughts from many hearts may be revealed mean?
You completely missed my point.

I was asking if you were calling the Holy Spirit an 'it' rather than HE.

Here was my original question...'Do you mean 'He' called Mary the mother of my Lord?
 
Top