Does God choose our leaders?

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Interesting teaching from Jack. Is it crystal clear in the Bible that God chooses our leaders, or did He only choose certain leaders in the days of the Old Testament?

Does God Choose Our Leaders?

Monday, October 8th, 2012

Q. I have a friend who thinks it doesn’t matter who gets elected as President because God has already predetermined it so it won’t make any difference. BTW, this person is a Christian and also a very intelligent and educated person who thinks this is a correct analysis. I personally do not go along with this philosophy but don’t know how to counter it adequately. I know in my heart what I think, but find it hard to put it all into words that make sense. Can you add some reality to this thinking?

A. First of all, voting is a patriotic duty, not a religious duty. Second, I don’t think Paul was talking about specific leaders in Romans 13:1-7. I think a case could be made that his intent was to say that human governments and the rule of law are things God instituted for the benefit of society, and as Christians we’re bound to submit to them. If everyone took matters into our own hands, then we’d be back to the time of the judges when “Israel had no king and everyone did as he saw fit” (Judges 17:6). I don’t think anyone wants that.

It’s a fact that all through history evil men have subverted the rule of law to put themselves into positions of authority for reasons that were decidedly not a benefit to society. To say that God orchestrated those events is to make Him a co-conspirator with evil men, and that has not been the case. For example, when Israel’s kings became so bad that God could no longer tolerate it, He cursed the royal line and abolished the kingship until the Messiah comes to restore it (Jeremiah 22:30, Ezekiel 21:23-27). Therefore I’m not convinced that God personally chooses every leader.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/does-god-choose-our-leaders/

Does God Choose Our Leaders? Follow Up
Wednesday, October 17th, 2012

Q. I am writing in response to your answer to the question “Does God choose Our Leaders” (at least I believe that was the wording of the question). From your answer I am getting the feeling that you do not believe that God is in total control of everything!! Could you please clear this up for me.

A. I believe the Bible argues convincingly against the idea that God is in total control of everything and I’m planning to address that in an upcoming feature article. But for now I’ll confine myself to the election of our leaders.

Recently, I read a comment from a man who said he believes the holder of every public office from the local dogcatcher to the president is personally selected by God. Then he said he views his vote as a prayer that God will select His candidate.

Do you see the problem here? According to Isaiah 46:9-10 God knows the end from the beginning. So if God personally selects every leader, He already knows which candidate He will select and our vote is meaningless. And since the office holder is always the person who received the most votes, then God must have already made sure that enough votes will be cast for His candidate to make him or her the winner. If that’s the case then what does it matter who we vote for or even if we vote because the outcome has already been decided. In my opinion, the whole theory is flawed.

In Biblical times the people sought God’s will through the High Priest. There was no popular vote. The only time God selected a candidate for office and gave people the right to vote, they rejected His Son (Psalm 2:1-6). Soon He will present His Son again and this time there won’t be a vote.

In the meantime I believe voting is a patriotic duty that only involves religion to the extent that the religious convictions of the candidates become the distinguishing factor between them. Voting is an opportunity to express our opinion about Earthly issues that is practically unique in the world. And in spite of the best efforts of politicians throughout our history, our vote still counts, if only a little.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/does-god-choose-our-leaders-follow-up/


Does God Choose Our Leaders? More Follow Up
Sunday, October 21st, 2012

Q. Re: Does God choose Our Leaders. I am confused on this because Daniel 2:21 says “And He changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings; He gives wisdom to the wise And knowledge to those who have understanding.” This verse tells me that God does control who is in office. Am I not understanding this correctly?

A. I believe this statement by Daniel confirms that God has the power to do these things but I don’t think it means He does them as a general practice. For instance when Daniel said God changes the times and seasons he was referring to changes in our calendar. When is the last time He did that?

I believe in this case Daniel was referring specifically to Nebuchadnezzar who God raised up for the purpose of ruling all the countries of the world (Daniel 2:37-38) and who He would later remove from office as a lesson in humility (Daniel 4:28-32).

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/does-god-choose-our-leaders-more-follow-up/
 

Lily

Looking Up
I'm still thinking on an answer to your question so I'm looking into some other points of view. Here's a couple more views for consideration:

*****************
Question: "Does God expect Christians to vote?"

Answer:
It is our contention that it is the duty and responsibility of every Christian to vote and to vote for leaders who promote Christian principles. God is most certainly in control, but that does not mean we should do nothing to further His will. We are commanded to pray for our leaders (1 Timothy 2:1-4). In terms of politics and leadership, there is evidence in Scripture that God has been displeased with our choices of leadership at times (Hosea 8:4). The evidence of sin’s grip on this world is everywhere. Much of the suffering on earth is because of godless leadership (Proverbs 28:12). Scripture gives Christians instructions to obey legitimate authority unless it contradicts the Lord’s commands (Acts 5:27-29; Romans 13:1-7). As born-again believers, we ought to strive to choose leaders who will be themselves led by our Creator (1 Samuel 12:13-25). Candidates or proposals that violate the Bible’s commands for life, family, marriage, or faith should never be supported (Proverbs 14:34). Christians should vote as led through prayer and study of both God’s Word and the realities of the choices on the ballot.

Christians in many countries in this world are oppressed and persecuted. They suffer under governments they are powerless to change and governments that hate their faith and silence their voices. These believers preach the gospel of Jesus Christ at risk of their own lives. In the U.S.A., Christians have been blessed with the right to speak about and choose their leaders without fearing for themselves or their families. In the U.S.A., in recent elections, about 2 of every 5 of self-professed Christians took that right for granted and did not vote. About 1 in 5 self-professed, eligible Christians are not even registered to vote.

In our day and age, there are many who want to drive the name and message of Christ completely out of the public arena. Voting is an opportunity to promote, protect, and preserve godly government. Passing up that opportunity means letting those who would denigrate the name of Christ have their way in our lives. The leaders we elect—or do nothing to remove—have great influence on our freedoms. They can choose to protect our right to worship and spread the gospel, or they can restrict those rights. They can lead our nation toward righteousness or toward moral disaster. As Christians, we should stand up and follow our command to fulfill our civic duties (Matthew 22:21).

http://www.gotquestions.org/Christians-vote.html

Question: "How should a Christian view politics?"

Answer:
If there is anything that will spark a spontaneous debate, if not an outright argument, it is a discussion involving politics—even among believers. As followers of Christ, what should be our attitude and our involvement with politics? It has been said that “religion and politics don’t mix.” But is that really true? Can we have political views outside the considerations of our Christian faith? The answer is no, we cannot. The Bible gives us two truths regarding our stance towards politics and government.

The first truth is that the will of God permeates and supersedes every aspect of life. It is God’s will that takes precedence over everything and everyone (Matthew 6:33). God’s plans and purposes are fixed, and His will is inviolable. What He has purposed, He will bring to pass, and no government can thwart His will (Daniel 4:34-35). In fact, it is God who “sets up kings and deposes them” (Daniel 2:21) because “the Most High is sovereign over the kingdoms of men and gives them to anyone he wishes” (Daniel 4:17). A clear understanding of this truth will help us to see that politics is merely a method God uses to accomplish His will. Even though evil men abuse their political power, meaning it for evil, God means it for good, working “all things together for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose” (Romans 8:28).

Second, we must grasp the fact that our government cannot save us! Only God can. We never read in the New Testament of Jesus or any of the apostles expending any time or energy schooling believers on how to reform the pagan world of its idolatrous, immoral, and corrupt practices via the government. The apostles never called for believers to demonstrate civil disobedience to protest the Roman Empire's unjust laws or brutal schemes. Instead, the apostles commanded the first-century Christians, as well as us today, to proclaim the gospel and live lives that give clear evidence to the gospel’s transforming power.

There is no doubt that our responsibility to government is to obey the laws and be good citizens (Romans 13:1-2). God has established all authority, and He does so for our benefit, “to commend those who do right” (1 Peter 2:13-15). Paul tells us in Romans 13:1-8 that it is the government’s responsibility to rule in authority over us—hopefully for our good—to collect taxes, and to keep the peace. Where we have a voice and can elect our leaders, we should exercise that right by voting for those whose views most closely parallel our own.

One of Satan’s grandest deceptions is that we can rest our hope for cultural morality and godly living in politicians and governmental officials. A nation’s hope for change is not to be found in any country’s ruling class. The church has made a mistake if it thinks that it is the job of politicians to defend, to advance, and to guard biblical truths and Christian values.

The church’s unique, God-given purpose does not lie in political activism. Nowhere in Scripture do we have the directive to spend our energy, our time, or our money in governmental affairs. Our mission lies not in changing the nation through political reform, but in changing hearts through the Word of God. When believers think the growth and influence of Christ can somehow be allied with government policy, they corrupt the mission of the church. Our Christian mandate is to spread the gospel of Christ and to preach against the sins of our time. Only as the hearts of individuals in a culture are changed by Christ will the culture begin to reflect that change.

Believers throughout the ages have lived, and even flourished, under antagonistic, repressive, pagan governments. This was especially true of the first-century believers who, under merciless political regimes, sustained their faith under immense cultural stress. They understood that it was they, not their governments, who were the light of the world and the salt of the earth. They adhered to Paul’s teaching to obey their governing authorities, even to honor, respect, and pray for them (Romans 13:1-8). More importantly, they understood that, as believers, their hope resided in the protection that only God supplies. The same holds true for us today. When we follow the teachings of the Scriptures, we become the light of the world as God has intended for us to be (Matthew 5:16).

Political entities are not the savior of the world. The salvation for all mankind has been manifested in Jesus Christ. God knew that our world needed saving long before any national government was ever founded. He demonstrated to the world that redemption could not be accomplished through the power of man, his economic strength, his military might, or his politics. Peace of mind, contentment, hope and joy—and the salvation of mankind—is accomplished only through His work of faith, love, and grace.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-politics.html
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I'm still thinking on an answer to your question so I'm looking into some other points of view. Here's a couple more views for consideration:

*****************
Question: "Does God expect Christians to vote?"

Answer:
It is our contention that it is the duty and responsibility of every Christian to vote and to vote for leaders who promote Christian principles. God is most certainly in control, but that does not mean we should do nothing to further His will. We are commanded to pray for our leaders (1 Timothy 2:1-4). In terms of politics and leadership, there is evidence in Scripture that God has been displeased with our choices of leadership at times (Hosea 8:4). The evidence of sin’s grip on this world is everywhere. Much of the suffering on earth is because of godless leadership (Proverbs 28:12). Scripture gives Christians instructions to obey legitimate authority unless it contradicts the Lord’s commands (Acts 5:27-29; Romans 13:1-7). As born-again believers, we ought to strive to choose leaders who will be themselves led by our Creator (1 Samuel 12:13-25). Candidates or proposals that violate the Bible’s commands for life, family, marriage, or faith should never be supported (Proverbs 14:34). Christians should vote as led through prayer and study of both God’s Word and the realities of the choices on the ballot.

Christians in many countries in this world are oppressed and persecuted. They suffer under governments they are powerless to change and governments that hate their faith and silence their voices. These believers preach the gospel of Jesus Christ at risk of their own lives. In the U.S.A., Christians have been blessed with the right to speak about and choose their leaders without fearing for themselves or their families. In the U.S.A., in recent elections, about 2 of every 5 of self-professed Christians took that right for granted and did not vote. About 1 in 5 self-professed, eligible Christians are not even registered to vote.

In our day and age, there are many who want to drive the name and message of Christ completely out of the public arena. Voting is an opportunity to promote, protect, and preserve godly government. Passing up that opportunity means letting those who would denigrate the name of Christ have their way in our lives. The leaders we elect—or do nothing to remove—have great influence on our freedoms. They can choose to protect our right to worship and spread the gospel, or they can restrict those rights. They can lead our nation toward righteousness or toward moral disaster. As Christians, we should stand up and follow our command to fulfill our civic duties (Matthew 22:21).

http://www.gotquestions.org/Christians-vote.html

Question: "How should a Christian view politics?"

Answer:
If there is anything that will spark a spontaneous debate, if not an outright argument, it is a discussion involving politics—even among believers. As followers of Christ, what should be our attitude and our involvement with politics? It has been said that “religion and politics don’t mix.” But is that really true? Can we have political views outside the considerations of our Christian faith? The answer is no, we cannot. The Bible gives us two truths regarding our stance towards politics and government.

The first truth is that the will of God permeates and supersedes every aspect of life. It is God’s will that takes precedence over everything and everyone (Matthew 6:33). God’s plans and purposes are fixed, and His will is inviolable. What He has purposed, He will bring to pass, and no government can thwart His will (Daniel 4:34-35). In fact, it is God who “sets up kings and deposes them” (Daniel 2:21) because “the Most High is sovereign over the kingdoms of men and gives them to anyone he wishes” (Daniel 4:17). A clear understanding of this truth will help us to see that politics is merely a method God uses to accomplish His will. Even though evil men abuse their political power, meaning it for evil, God means it for good, working “all things together for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose” (Romans 8:28).

Second, we must grasp the fact that our government cannot save us! Only God can. We never read in the New Testament of Jesus or any of the apostles expending any time or energy schooling believers on how to reform the pagan world of its idolatrous, immoral, and corrupt practices via the government. The apostles never called for believers to demonstrate civil disobedience to protest the Roman Empire's unjust laws or brutal schemes. Instead, the apostles commanded the first-century Christians, as well as us today, to proclaim the gospel and live lives that give clear evidence to the gospel’s transforming power.

There is no doubt that our responsibility to government is to obey the laws and be good citizens (Romans 13:1-2). God has established all authority, and He does so for our benefit, “to commend those who do right” (1 Peter 2:13-15). Paul tells us in Romans 13:1-8 that it is the government’s responsibility to rule in authority over us—hopefully for our good—to collect taxes, and to keep the peace. Where we have a voice and can elect our leaders, we should exercise that right by voting for those whose views most closely parallel our own.

One of Satan’s grandest deceptions is that we can rest our hope for cultural morality and godly living in politicians and governmental officials. A nation’s hope for change is not to be found in any country’s ruling class. The church has made a mistake if it thinks that it is the job of politicians to defend, to advance, and to guard biblical truths and Christian values.

The church’s unique, God-given purpose does not lie in political activism. Nowhere in Scripture do we have the directive to spend our energy, our time, or our money in governmental affairs. Our mission lies not in changing the nation through political reform, but in changing hearts through the Word of God. When believers think the growth and influence of Christ can somehow be allied with government policy, they corrupt the mission of the church. Our Christian mandate is to spread the gospel of Christ and to preach against the sins of our time. Only as the hearts of individuals in a culture are changed by Christ will the culture begin to reflect that change.

Believers throughout the ages have lived, and even flourished, under antagonistic, repressive, pagan governments. This was especially true of the first-century believers who, under merciless political regimes, sustained their faith under immense cultural stress. They understood that it was they, not their governments, who were the light of the world and the salt of the earth. They adhered to Paul’s teaching to obey their governing authorities, even to honor, respect, and pray for them (Romans 13:1-8). More importantly, they understood that, as believers, their hope resided in the protection that only God supplies. The same holds true for us today. When we follow the teachings of the Scriptures, we become the light of the world as God has intended for us to be (Matthew 5:16).

Political entities are not the savior of the world. The salvation for all mankind has been manifested in Jesus Christ. God knew that our world needed saving long before any national government was ever founded. He demonstrated to the world that redemption could not be accomplished through the power of man, his economic strength, his military might, or his politics. Peace of mind, contentment, hope and joy—and the salvation of mankind—is accomplished only through His work of faith, love, and grace.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-politics.html
Your second article you posted from Got Questions, I had already started a thread on the exact same topic earlier this morning.

http://www.raptureforums.com/forums/threads/how-should-a-christian-view-politics.119745/
 

Keith Johnson

Well-Known Member
Colossians 1:16-17 New King James Version (NKJV)

16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Which of these categories would you put the potus .....whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers... ?
 

Lily

Looking Up

Andy C

Well-Known Member
If many on this forum believe that God appoints leaders, why do we debate the Presidential election? Does it rally matter if we vote, if you believe God will appoint who He wants?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hol

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I started this thread because this is a subject I don't have an answer for. For years I believed God appointed leaders, but never really studied this. The answers provided in my OP from Jack Kelley has caused me to rethink my position, and search the scriptures. However, I'm still not sure if God in His Sovereignty appoints all leaders, or because He has allowed free will, does He then allow us to elect our own leaders?
 

Hol

Worships Him
I don't know, but in prayer we are moved to follow His will. On our own we easily make bad choices so it seems His people can mistakenly place a wrong person in, King Saul comes to mind.
 

paidinfull

Well-Known Member
Sometimes HE does and sometimes HE doesn't.
I think this is correct. What is of greater importance is that Scripture explains He works all things after the council of His will. Do I understand that? Nope! Not when I am dealing with war or sickness or pain or death or a million other things including evil world rulers.

And yet there is this mystery, that He wants us to pray for His will to be done here on earth as it is in heaven. If I pray He will work all things after the council of His will and if I don't He will work all things after the council of His will, but probably in a different way. If I pray He takes my needs or wants into His plan at times, but not always so it's a good idea to get my needs before the throne of grace.

Did God choose Obama or did the nation choose Obama? I think that God responded to how the nation responded to how Obama trashed the Bible and exalted the Quoran. Anyone who feared the Lord knew pretty well how Obama would attempt to destroy the USA and Israel because he was the only president to openly put down the Bible and Christianity and exalt a foreign god of war and this false god's so called holy book in his election campaign. In any event we can rest assured that God is working the council of His ultimate will through Obama even if Obama is resisting God.

Obama has exalted Muslim world leaders, even bowing to them but the leader of Israel he has despised. He is dividing the nation between rich and poor, black and white, straight and transsexual and when he leaves office, if he leaves office, it will take years to undo the damage he has done. It grieves us all but Israel was grieved for the consequences of her decisions. I remember in Sunday School it was often explained that God's choices were like looking at the back of a tapestry. It's a mess of threads in total confusion until you turn it over and see a beautiful picture and that's ultimately how it ends up when we side with Him.

So I can't say for sure that He does or doesn't chose every world leader and every rank below them until you get to the janitor, but I can have confidence that He is in control and I can trust His goodness, wisdom and power.
 
Last edited:

Andrew

Well known member
I started this thread because this is a subject I don't have an answer for. For years I believed God appointed leaders, but never really studied this. The answers provided in my OP from Jack Kelley has caused me to rethink my position, and search the scriptures. However, I'm still not sure if God in His Sovereignty appoints all leaders, or because He has allowed free will, does He then allow us to elect our own leaders?
There is a biblical example of God giving the people the king they asked for. This is quite in keeping with God's ways with men.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I think this is correct. What is of greater importance is that Scripture explains He works all things after the council of His will. Do I understand that? Nope! Not when I am dealing with war or sickness or pain or death or a million other things including evil world rulers.

And yet there is this mystery, that He wants us to pray for His will to be done here on earth as it is in heaven. If I pray He will work all things after the council of His will and if I don't He will work all things after the council of His will, but probably in a different way. If I pray He takes my needs or wants into His plan at times, but not always so it's a good idea to get my needs before the throne of grace.

Did God choose Obama or did the nation choose Obama? I think that God responded to how the nation responded to how Obama trashed the Bible and exalted the Quoran. Anyone who feared the Lord knew pretty well how Obama would attempt to destroy the USA and Israel because HE was the only president to openly put down the Bible and Christianity and exalt a foreign god of war and this false god's so called holy book in his election campaign. In any event we can rest assured that God is working the council of His ultimate will through Obama even if Obama is resisting God.

Obama has exalted Muslim world leaders, even bowing to them but the leader of Israel he has despised. He is dividing the nation between rich and poor, black and white, straight and transsexual and when he leaves office, if he leaves office, it will take years to undo the damage he has done. It grieves us all but Israel was grieved for the consequences of her decisions. I remember in Sunday School it was often explained that God's choices were like looking at the back of a tapestry. It's a mess of threads in total confusion until you turn it over and see a beautiful picture and that's ultimately how it ends up when we side with Him.

So I can't say for sure that He does or doesn't chose every world leader and every rank below them until you get to the janitor, but I can have confidence that He is in control and I can trust His goodness, wisdom and power.
Thanks, excellent response. Some things we may never know as long as we are in our rotten flesh body. His ways are not our ways, and I'm so thankful for that.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
God is sovereign over everything that happens, and He also gives us free will--the ability to make choices. The idea that He chooses our leaders regardless of our choices smacks of Calvinism. God knows who will be saved and the Bible says those who are saved are those who are chosen, but He does not save people who do not choose Him, nor does He tell anyone who chooses Him, "sorry, you're not one I chose." God's Big Plan will happen regardless of who we vote for, or don't vote for. Nothing we can do can thwart His will, yet we have complete freedom to make choices--and to vote.
 
Top