Does God appoint those in authority?

Discussion in 'End Times Politics' started by Nana of three, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. Nana of three

    Nana of three Member

    Does God appoint those in authority? Can someone explain? Does Romans 13:1 apply to my question? Thank you
  2. Kaatje

    Kaatje Well-Known Member

    According to the Bible, authority ought to be submitted to and respected. This is a hard teaching for many, as the Bible would seem to indemnify those who rule or preside over others in a cruel and unjust manner. Perhaps the most widely-quoted and well-known verse regarding this matter comes from Romans 13. God advises us to submit to “governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established” (Romans 13:1). We are further advised in the Bible that rebelling against authority is rebelling against God (Romans 13:2).

    Many would argue that such passages deal only with benevolent rulers because the Scripture continues to say that these rulers “hold no terror for those who do right” and that they are “God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer”. This is why “it is necessary to submit” and “why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing” (Romans 13:3-6).

    What does God say about reacting to unjust rulers? In another well-known and challenging passage, the Bible says: “Slaves, submit yourselves to your master with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.” He explains further: “For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men” and “Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king. For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God, [and] if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps” (1 Peter 2:15, 17-21).

    These are very difficult messages and may incline some to feel God has a sadistic streak. This would be a misreading of the Bible. God’s call always to show love, honor, and respect to others represents how He envisions His Kingdom on earth. He wishes us to live life to the fullest (John 10:10) and promises us a glorious and eternal life (John 3:16; 14:2-3, 23).

    Ephesians 6:6-9 exhorts us to obey not merely to win favor just when people’s eyes are on us, but to act as “slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart,” serving wholeheartedly as if serving the Lord and knowing that He will reward us for whatever good we do. His message is consistent for slave masters, enjoining them to “treat your slaves in the same way” because He is master of both them, and their slaves.

    Despite instances of poor or tyrannical government, of which many examples are provided in the books of Judges, 1 Kings, and 2 Kings (as well as in today’s world), God assures us that on balance, respect, kindness, and submission are part of His plan (1 Thessalonians 5:12-18) and failure to follow this prescription results in our devolving into depravity and anarchy because of self-centeredness (2 Timothy 3:1-9).
    GotGrace, Rose E., Andy C and 7 others like this.
  3. athenasius

    athenasius Well-Known Member

    NASB 1 Tim 2:1-2 First of all then,I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a quiet life in all godliness and dignity.

    This was written by Paul to Timothy in 58 or 59 AD and some place it as late as 64-65 AD

    This was written while NERO was in charge. Yup that one. He ruled from 54 AD to 68 AD.

    We remember him well for being the one to put both Paul (head chopped off) and Peter (crucified upside down) to death along with many other Christians. Some of which he used to burn alive as human torches to light his parties. He also set fire to an area of Rome in order to clean it up and make it better, but the peasants got angry at their families being burnt alive in the firestorm that consumed 70% of the city, so then he conveniently blamed it on the Christians, which set us up for MORE persecution under Nero.

    it is interesting that Paul's death is considered to have happened around May or June of 68 AD. And the BBC speaking of Nero, that I just looked up says this "In 68 AD, the Gallic and Spanish legions, along with the Praetorian Guards, rose against Nero and he fled Rome. The senate declared him a public enemy and he committed suicide on 9 June 68 AD."

    It just looks interesting that Nero murders Paul and Peter and just days after Paul's death (if that source I looked up is right) Nero commits suicide.

    this background to that passage in 1 Timothy, completely shreds any arguments that we only have to obey (and pray for) the rulers that behave nicely. We are to pray for the ones like NERO who was disgusting, cruel, capricious, Satanicly energized and a vicious hater of Christians.

    I can just imagine the tearfilled prayers of the saints going up on behalf of the Christians under persecution and on behalf of Peter and Paul, in obedience to this. God is the Supreme Authority, and Nero's time came to an end. God is in charge, and even the martyrdom of Peter and Paul was foreordained by God and resulted in the spread of the gospel as many Romans wondered at the perseverance of the saints, how they clung to Christ in the face of certain death. Many many many were saved as a result.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
    GotGrace, Rose E., Andy C and 6 others like this.
  4. mattfivefour

    mattfivefour Administrator Staff Member

    Excellent answers! Both are scripturally (in other words, theologically) sound.
    JudyAP, Stevelw, Andy C and 6 others like this.
  5. Nana of three

    Nana of three Member

    Thank you all so much! I appreciate the time you took to respond to my question and answer in depth.
  6. DanLW

    DanLW Well-Known Member

    But who has God put in the position of authority in this country, according to the supreme law of the land?

    "WE THE PEOPLE..."

    So will God hold rulers and authorities answerable for their actions? What does that mean for us? What does that mean for Christians who are eligible to vote and yet don't vote, or throw their vote away on a candidate with 0 chance of winning?

    Not a salvational issue, of course, but among our talents given to us by God is the ability to have a say in our government. Will we use that talent to elect representatives that fear God, or will we bury it in the ground outside the polling station? If anyone wants to have responsibility in Gods eternal kingdom, we had better be responsible with the things God has entrusted to us, and that includes voting (for those of us who live in countries that allow voting)
  7. Everlasting Life

    Everlasting Life Through Faith in Jesus

    I agree that as Christians we need to be looking for how we can promote good and limit evil, one way is through our votes. :nod

    I do think that Christians are sure trying to help in this way, and suspect that with the last election that God upheld the "WE THE PEOPLE" choice for the people. Because, there's not only the issue of Christians voting.....there's also the issue of underhanded maneuvering to suppress certain votes to consider as well. An example is from the Judicial Watch article below. How much of this stuff is going on and undermining the voting process of America?:

    (Washington, DC) – Judicial Watch announced today that it signed a settlement agreement with the State of California and County of Los Angeles under which they will begin the process of removing from their voter registration rolls as many as 1.5 million inactive registered names that may be invalid. These removals are required by the National Voter Registration Act (NVRA).

    The NVRA is a federal law requiring the removal of inactive registrations from the voter rolls after two general federal elections (encompassing from 2 to 4 years). Inactive voter registrations belong, for the most part, to voters who have moved to another county or state or have passed away.

    Los Angeles County has over 10 million residents, more than the populations of 41 of the 50 United States. California is America’s largest state, with almost 40 million residents.

    Judicial Watch filed a 2017 federal lawsuit to force the cleanup of voter rolls (Judicial Watch, Inc., et al. v. Dean C. Logan, et al. (No. 2:17-cv-08948)). Judicial Watch sued on its own behalf and on behalf of Wolfgang Kupka, Rhue Guyant, Jerry Griffin, and Delores M. Mars, who are lawfully registered voters in Los Angeles County. Judicial Watch was also joined by Election Integrity Project California, Inc., a public interest group that has long been involved in monitoring California’s voter rolls.

    In its lawsuit, Judicial Watch alleged:

    • Los Angeles County has more voter registrations on its voter rolls than it has citizens who are old enough to register. Specifically, according to data provided to and published by the U.S. Election Assistance Commission, Los Angeles County has a registration rate of 112 percent of its adult citizen population.
    • The entire State of California has a registration rate of about 101 percent of its age-eligible citizenry.
    • Eleven of California’s 58 counties have registration rates exceeding 100 percent of the age-eligible citizenry.
    The lawsuit confirmed that Los Angeles County has on its rolls more than 1.5 million potentially ineligible voters. This means that more than one out of every five LA County registrations likely belongs to a voter who has moved or is deceased. Judicial Watch notes that “Los Angeles County has the highest number of inactive registrations of any single county in the country.”

    The Judicial Watch lawsuit also uncovered that neither the State of California nor Los Angeles County had been removing inactive voters from the voter registration rolls for the past 20 years. The Supreme Court affirmed last year in Husted v. A. Philip Randolph Inst., 138 S. Ct. 1833 (2018) that the NVRA “makes this removal mandatory.”

    .....Prior to this settlement agreement, Judicial Watch estimated that based on comparisons of national census data to voter-roll information, there were 3.5 million more names on various county voter rolls than there were citizens of voting age. This settlement could cut this number in half.....

    Some of the fishy stuff going on in Florida makes one wonder as well.

    With all that being said, I do think that God will allow leaders to come into play for His purposes and plans even if it seems very contrary to Christian values. My observation with some of our presidents is that it's set the stage for certain bible prophecies to emerge more prominently on the world scene. So, where we may be scratching our heads in America, or another country.....things make sense prophetically in the world. And thus....God's Word is proved true.

    Just my thoughts. :)
  8. JSTyler

    JSTyler Well-Known Member

    Amen. Our leaders are appointed by God and we should vote and not worry about the outcome, my person, their person and or the other person. It's very much like prayer, we pray, God answers...yes, no, wait.

    The outcome belongs to God, we have the responsibility to align as best as we can with His will.
  9. JSTyler

    JSTyler Well-Known Member

    As usual, great thoughts.

    Tom Fitton and crew are leading the charge to save the US Constitution and the freedom it represents. I thank God Almighty for people like the Judicial Watch folks that fight the brave, righteous and legal fights.
  10. Andy C

    Andy C Well-Known Member

  11. Stevelw

    Stevelw Well-Known Member

    Great responses by Kaatje and Athenasius, which brings up the big rabbit hole of did the founding fathers of the United States found the country in sin by rebelling against the King of England? Food for thought!
    athenasius and cchomeschoolmom like this.
  12. athenasius

    athenasius Well-Known Member

    Or did they found the country on the principle of religious freedom, in separation from the horrific melding of church and state, that formed part of the problem in the third church that Jesus mentions in Revelation?

    That church Pergamos is often considered the compromising church, the one which characterizes the church and state union. In the historical sense of the 7 churches it fits the profile of the Church in the age when Rome decided it was going to be Christian, but in name only. The State religion switched from Caesar worship to Christianity, but it imported all the pagan stuff that the pagans were used to.

    It was before the Catholic church fully formed (that age is the age of Thyatira) and is a LONG way to the Reformation (the age of Sardis) or the evangelical churches that formed the missionary movements (the age of Philadelphia) or the apostasy of the end (Laodicea-- today's church).

    By firmly rejecting the state church (Anglican/C of E, aka Episcopalian) the founding fathers were setting up a society where all people could worship God without restriction. By limiting the power of a king to tax without representation, they were simply applying the concept that began with the Magna Carta in 1215 that severely limited the rights of a king over his subjects. The idea that a king was under the LAW OF GOD, and that the law of God was ABOVE the king is the backbone of the Magna Carta and its recognition of rights. This concept of the Magna Carta and the rights of people was one of the founding principles along with the essential of religious freedom.

    At the time of the Revolution, England was still a place that punished those who didn't worship as part of the Church of England and with it's rites, that are in many ways just a stones throw away from the Catholic church that she sprang out of. Dissenters, Jews, Catholics, Quakers, Baptists were not flogged and put in the stocks for ridicule, nor fined by that time like they had been during the previous eras, but they still couldn't attend regular schools or universities. They were pushed to the side, marginalized and refused entry to regular ordinary British life.

    The Boston Tea Party brought the taxation without representation to the fore, but the other concepts all rooted in the rights of a human being under GOD were the guiding principles of the founding fathers.

    The idea that God was above the KING was at the core.

    In a sense, America was not founded on rebellion, but rather on the idea that God Given Rights were above the rights of any monarch.

    The founding fathers were restoring a Biblical balance. I think it was a God given moment in time and even though America has gotten down and dirty lately, she is still better at defending the right of the individual than any other democracy including Britain and her other daughters like Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

    And I say this as a loyal Canadian and a subject of Her Majesty, the Queen of England and of Canada.
    cchomeschoolmom and Andy C like this.

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