Does Ephesians help to understand things?

Joe B

Well-Known Member
This is difficult but I do understand what Evangelist is trying to say.
I know all of you will agree with me that the path to becoming a true Christian in total faith is a very difficult one.

It takes time and throughout that time God will test our faith not for his purposes but for our development. I know that from the moment that we truly accept Christ into our lives we are saved but that doesn’t mean that we stop there! If we do we can never truly serve God in the way that he intends us to.

I don’t know about you but I know the moment that God lifts his hand from my life. I know that I am now open to sin and so sadly and so often I succumb to that temptation. But I am learning to recognise those times and I am growing much stronger!

He doesn’t do this for fun nor to mock, even to tempt me but to develop my faith for only then can I truly serve him in the way that he has planned. So I do have to co-operate. I do have to learn else I will stay in the same state that I was when I accepted Christ.

I think when it is said that once saved I am always saved are both right and wrong! I know that you will say that once I accept Christ into my life these changes will take place but I will ask you how if they seem to incur no effort on my part?

You have no idea of the times when I have felt God removing his hand that I have even prayed and told him that and asked why? But he has taught me why and maybe he also wants to teach me that without his care and protection I will live a life constantly in sin?

I have reached the stage now where I know that what he is doing is out of his love for me and that he wants to demonstrate that love my making me stronger in my faith and acceptance of his will into my life.

Finally, he never really leaves me, just lifts his hand, for when I succumb to sin he is still there offering me a way out! We don’t just need to confess but to grow stronger in our faith too.
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
Exactly, Joe. You are saved, adopted as His child, and He deals with you as His child. He does not throw you out every time you sin and then require you to be re-adopted over and over. He does not look at you when you sin and say "You are no longer fit to be my child". No, the prodigal son said, "I will say to my father' I am no longer worthy to be your son.'" But he never got the chance, because before he even turned (repented) to go back to his father, we see that his father was already looking for him and when he saw him, HE—the father—ran to him and welcomed him as a lost son. So, too, does our own Father.

Your experience, my brother, does not speak of a sinful man's heart but of a saint's heart, a saint who is devastated by his own sin. Your mourning over your sin is proof you are a child of His. And your testimony also speaks of a true Father who loves and corrects and nurtures and brings to maturity. Do not despair, bro. God is not done with you yet. Nor with any of us.

It is only when we sin and do not care that we do that we give evidence that we have never truly been a child of God.
 

Evangelist

New Member
So for the record NO, true born again Christians do not need to repent but they DO need to confess.
Yup, the last shall be first, so I'll question you first.

Paul was in Ephesus for 2 years, and I've been there twice during the past year.
Perhaps he didn't do a very good job of gettin' his folks born-again,
because Jesus told this whole church to repent ...
Revelation 2:
5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works,
or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.
7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.


Then, we have the so-called churches of today ...
Revelation 3:
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door,
I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.
22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

I left in verse 20 because perhaps it applies to the same church members as in verse 19.
But, you probably think He's talkin' to pretenders, agnostics, atheists, and the like.

Note: Jesus never says "some of you (non-born-again pretenders)", but He's talkin' to everyone in the churches.

Next, I think I'll present a thread on da "feel good" churches and forums, but not here.
It won't be well received ... you boys and gals are goin' to Heaven, right?
 

Noah Cotterill

Well-Known Member
I think there's confusion about continual repentance after the initial repentance that goes with salvation. If I don't repent today from my sins, will I just be smitten to hell if God comes back at the end of the day? No. Should there be continual repentance in a Christian walk? Yes. We have our days where we mess up, our seasons of sin. We're meant to be continually sanctified. I've been a Christian for 23 years, accepted Jesus at 2. I've gone through seasons of horrible sin. Was I saved? Yes! When the clay falls off, God picks us up again and starts remolding, re-sanctifying us. There's a significant line drawn between evidentiary support of a person who calls themselves a Christian, but isn't truly repentant, and a Christian who has stumbled.

Look at Simon the sorcerer
 

Joe B

Well-Known Member
Evangelist, I hear what you are saying so I will try to clarify my thoughts as clearly as I can.

Repentance is usually a one off act that we make when we come before God and offer our lives to him. It is the sign that we truly repent from everything that is past and seek to be reborn through faith in Jesus Christ.

From that point on and although we will still continue to sin we do not need to repent again but simply to confess in sorrow those sins that we may, albeit over a period of time, continue to commit. That is the key here which is that as a person who has truly repented, we can never again just accept sin into our lives!

To do so is to cause us to fall from grace and that act will then require us to need to repent once again as we had not truly done so in the first place.

When the Bible speaks of those Christian who still have a need to repent or repent again, it is not because they sin but because they have accepted sin into their lives!

To say to God that here is a sin that I will continue to commit, so don’t bother to try to change me displays an unrepentant heart which can never be acceptable to God.

So, yes! You will still sin but a truly repentant heart will never accept that sin. As your heart always remains repentant there is no need to make this statement again as God always knows what is in your heart.

Hope that you will continue to grow in your faith on this forum, as I have.
 

Evangelist

New Member
So I do have to co-operate.
Another thread I'd like to start is ...
"God has always insisted on working together with man to accomplish His goals on earth".
Too long for a title, so I guess I won't after all.

Yup, the "no-works, grace only" people are out of luck.

Joe knows he must co-operate with the Lord to be sanctified unto holiness.
IMO, God won't force anyone to go through this difficult process.

What ever happened to man's free will?
I know he has no say at all in being predestined, chosen, called, etc.
But, I believe man can walk away from his salvation, and forfeit it.
Ergo, I believe OSAS is from Satan.

And still ... no one will explain the hundreds of dire threats to the churches I see in our NT.
Gee, I guess I'm seein' things again! Oh, well.

Just had a thought ... most of you are relating your own experiences,
but I'm talkin' more theoretically about other people who aren't as co-operative as you are.
You do know that the churches are full of people who are not really trying/working to be obedient.
 

Joe B

Well-Known Member
The fall from grace applies equally to churches that have gone astray, who have accepted the sin of apostasy.
So, it is the church itself that also needs to repent, not just those who worship there!

Of course we are free to walk away from Christ as God will never remove that freedom. But we will always do so because we have an repentant heart.

Equally, always know that our repentant heart will save us and as that means giving our lives to God he will continual to grow in us both our faith and our deeds in accordance with his plan.

How does this happen simply because your desire is to serve God in everyway possible and he calls that tune!
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
I'm not going to continue to deal with your attempts at mixing law with grace. I think most people here know the truth of God's Word.

But I am very curious about this statement:

I know he has no say at all in being predestined, chosen, called, etc.
But, I believe man can walk away from his salvation, and forfeit it.

If a man is predestined to salvation, how can he forfeit it? That is an impossibility because it would make man's will greater than God's.
 

dave-o

Well-Known Member
Never mind. Good luck with that whole "I'ma earnin' ma grace" stuff.
 
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dave-o

Well-Known Member
"God has always insisted on working together with man to accomplish His goals on earth".

That statement right there exposes your error and just screams of Pride. The Master has delegated certain tasks to his servants but no man has ever been in any way a partner "working together" with God in achieving His one goal of reconciling mankind to Himself. We can work for God but never with Him.

Your theology elevates YOU to a senior partner position in facilitating your salvation. Not only does this contradict your view of predestination it also a blatant challenge to the sovereignty of God.

Compare this:
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
To this:
Next, I think I'll present a thread on da "feel good" churches and forums, but not here.
It won't be well received ... you boys and gals are goin' to Heaven, right?
Can you not see how the spirit of Pride is causing you to boast of your own efforts in helping God save you?

You do realize that your assisted-salvation theology is the exact same one that is at the very foundation of all the errors, blasphemy, idolatry and paganism found in the doctrines of the Roman Catholic church. Right?
 

Evangelist

New Member
I am very curious about this statement:
If a man is predestined to salvation, how can he forfeit it?
That is an impossibility because it would make man's will greater than God's.
That's the whole deal isn't it?

Is one predestined, chosen, called, etc.
to be given a fighting chance at salvation, i.e. through being born-again?
or
to be guaranteed salvation?
 

Evangelist

New Member
That statement right there exposes your error and just screams of Pride.
"God has always insisted on working together with man to accomplish His goals on earth".

Dave, you're mistaken ... my statement is true!
You'd better go through the Bible again.
 

Evangelist

New Member

The warnings are endless ... here's some more.
Were these written to the saved, the unsaved, or both?

“… which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost,
whether he has enough to finish it … whoever of you does not forsake all that he has
cannot be My disciple.” (Luke 14:27-33)

“If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?” (Matthew 16:24-26)

“He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.” (John 12:25)

“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction,
and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way
which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:13-14)

IMO, the saved person has been warned that before continuing with his Christianity:
-- he should first count the cost of going through being sanctified
-- he should be ready to forsake all that he has
-- he should be ready to deny himself and take up his cross
-- he should be ready to hate his worldly life
-- he should understand that few find the narrow road leading to eternal life

How many people have considered these difficult warnings before being born-again?
IMO, none … so, these warnings are for Christians.
 

acceptedinthebeloved

Well-Known Member
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction,
and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way
which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:13-14)

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Jesus IS the Narrow/Strait Gate... the Narrow Way... and THE LIFE.

"I am THE WAY, the Truth, and THE LIFE: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." John 14:6

Most people think it is by SELF and SELF-EFFORT (as ALL false religions uphold), but they are wrong.
 

dave-o

Well-Known Member
Is one predestined, chosen, called, etc.
to be given a fighting chance at salvation, i.e. through being born-again?

So according to you all Christ's sacrifice did was give us a mere chance to save ourselves through our own efforts. Welcome to the church of Rome whose fruit speaks for itself. No further discussion is needed.
 
I'm wondering why there are 53 likes to this post?

@ evangelist:
IMHO, I think having questions is great and fantastic however, when there are people trying to lovingly and gently explain why you're in error and you come back fighting, prideful and arrogant that is not good. I pray that you go to God with a humble and teachable heart and seek the truth that your searching for. The Holy Spirit will guide you to all truth. There's no sense trying to divide people and try to prove yourself right and everyone else wrong. I'm trying to understand your motive here?
 
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