Did angels have the knowledge of good and evil when they were created?

[Brother Albert R.]

Did angels have the knowledge of good and evil when they were created? I ask this question because I would like some input. I believe angels, unlike man, were given such awareness at their creation because satan and a third of them rebelled. How can they rebel if they had no such awareness. When man was created by God he was not given such awareness until he consumed the forbidden fruit. Is there an example some were in the scriptures that addresses this? Has anyone heard or read a good teaching on this? I would like to know.

God bless you,
your brother in Christ,
Albert R.

 

[Kosie]

This is a very interesting topic for discussion. If God created everything, did He create sin? Surely not, because in God there is no evil. I would say (short answer) that angles also had the free will to decide on good or evil. Satan, because of pride decided on the latter and convinced a third of the angelic force to do the same.

 

[Jan51]

Apparently the angels like us were given free will. When Satan exercised his free will against God, apparently they had a one-time test, in which they could follow Satan or God. Following that test, the wicked angels stay wicked, and the faithful angels stay faithful.

 

[63ProStreet]

I have thought about that myself many times. Satan must have made his way sound much better than what the angels were experiencing just like Adam and Eve! Those two had it made! He does the same thing to us. "Looks at this!" he says, "Wouldnt you like this instead of that?" We being sinful say, yeaaaaaah, I waaaaaaaaant thaaaaaaat But while we are saying this, we are thinking

 

[Andy C]

No, they did not. Evil is the result of disobedience

Would they not have to have the knowledge of evil first, in order to choose disobedience?

 

[Andy C]

God’s Plan In A Nutshell
Saturday, January 31st, 2015
Perspective by Jack Kelley

You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were blameless in your ways until wickedness was found in you (Ezekiel 28:12,15).


There is nothing in the Bible to tell us when the angelic realm was created. However, Job 38:4-7 speaks of the angels shouting for joy when God laid the Earth’s foundation, so they had to have been created before Earth existed. Neither is there a mention of the timing of Satan’s rebellion. All we know for sure is it had to have preceded Genesis 3, when the serpent convinced Eve to disobey God. Satan was already God’s adversary by then, although there’s no mention of his rebellion in connection with the creation. For this reason, I’ve concluded it also happened before the creation story begins.

Here’s How It All Began
The wickedness in the one we call Satan was no surprise to God. He knows the end from the beginning after all. And like all the angels, Satan had been created with the power of choice, which gave him the the potential for evil.

Since God knew Satan would rebel, many have wondered why He let it happen? Others have asked, “Why didn’t God just destroy Satan at the time? Why let him cause all this trouble?”

The Bible doesn’t answer those questions directly, but maybe after reading this you’ll conclude, as I have, that if God had not allowed things to unfold as they did, you and I might never have come to be, and would not be able to look forward to an eternity that surpasses all human understanding.

We have no way of knowing how long it took for Satan’s wickedness to reveal itself, but through Ezekiel we learn that it was his pride in his beauty and splendor that triggered its appearance (Ezekiel 28:17).

His pride apparently caused him to to believe that exalted as it was, his assigned place in the order of creation was inadequate for someone of his talent and potential. Since no created being was higher, he determined to make himself like the Most High God (Isaiah 14:13-14).

As I said, this introduction of a second will into the universe was no surprise to God, but He couldn’t let it stand. Knowing that one third of the angelic population had cast their lot with Satan, He moved to put down this revolt and pronounced judgment on Satan and those who had joined him.

Some have speculated that in response Satan accused God of being unjust and having no love. I believe this speculation has merit based on what God did next. Remember, the following was not God’s reaction to Satan’s accusation, but His rebuttal to an accusation He already knew Satan would hurl at Him.

The Rebuttal
First, He created man, a being vastly inferior to the angels but having intellect, the power of choice (free will), and eternal life just like they do.

To demonstrate His justice, He established a set of Laws with which to govern man’s life. These laws reflected His own standards of righteousness. He declared that all men would be judged according to these laws and those who kept them faithfully would inherit eternal life with Him. However, even one violation would condemn the offender to an eternity of punishment. There would be no exceptions, and no appeal. From the highest to the lowest, all of mankind would be equally subject to these laws and would reap the reward or punishment due him or her according to its provisions.

Of course, God knew that mankind would not be able to meet the requirements of His Law and left to their own devices everyone would be found guilty and condemned to death. But the Law defined His righteousness, and to live in His presence man’s righteousness had to equal it. Also, in order to be just, the Law could tolerate no deviation from its standards. Every violation had to incur the death penalty.

God didn’t want all of mankind to be lost, but unless He lowered His standards, something His righteousness would not permit, He couldn’t change His Law. His solution to this seemingly unsolvable problem was to pay the penalty Himself for all of mankind’s violations. He would come to Earth in the form of His Son and die for the sins of the world. His death would pay for all of man’s violations of His Law (John 1:29, John 3:16).

Just like the penalty for violating the Law would be the same for everyone, so would the remedy. Anyone, from the highest to the lowest, who accepted the Son’s death as payment in full for his or her sins would be granted a full pardon and a place in eternity with Him . It would impute to them a righteousness equal to His own (Romans 3:21-24). Because He had created man with the power of choice, He wouldn’t impose His solution on anyone, but would grant it without exception to everyone who asked to receive it (Matt. 7:7-8).

These two actions, implementing a Law no one could keep, and offering a pardon no one could earn, were God’s rebuttal to Satan’s accusations. It combined perfect justice with perfect love. Man was free to choose either alternative. He could strive to live up to God’s impossibly high standards and earn His way into eternity through his own works or he could accept the Son of God’s death on his behalf and be granted eternal life by faith.

The Implementation
After creating man, God implemented the Law portion of His plan to provide an example for all of humanity to study. His purpose was two-fold. He wanted mankind to see the blessings that came from the level of obedience we are capable of, but He also wanted us to learn that the level of obedience His Law required for our salvation was unobtainable (Romans 3:20). These two points were quickly proven when the first two humans broke His Law soon after being placed in the most blessed environment humanity has ever enjoyed.

This was also no surprise to God. To prevent mankind from becoming obsolete before we got started, He initiated a sacrificial system to teach mankind that we would ultimately be saved through the shedding of His innocent blood. In the mean time, the shed blood of certain innocent animals would set their sins aside temporarily.

Protecting them from destroying themselves through their own sinfulness was no small task. It took the most elaborate religious system ever devised and the sacrificial deaths of untold numbers of innocent animals. He chose one people, the descendants of Abraham, to be the principal participants in this religious system, blessing them enormously when they obeyed and punishing them without mercy when they didn’t, all as an example from which the rest of the world could learn about His nature (Romans 15:4).

When the time finally came for God to send His Son to die for our sins, He made His one sacrifice sufficient for all time (Hebrews 10:12-14). Those who died in faith before He came would receive eternal life along with those who died in faith afterward. The Son’s one righteous life was of sufficient value to save all of mankind’s unrighteous ones, from the first one to the last (1 Peter 3:18).

The Judgment
God determined that His plan would have a fixed expiration, after which He would bring it to a conclusion. At that time all of mankind will stand before Him. If they have died He will bring them back to life, never to die again. Everyone will be shown the point in his or her life when the two choices available were made clear to them. Remember, part of God’s plan is to demonstrate that He’s a just God (Deut. 32:4). Therefore He can neither reward nor punish anyone who didn’t get an opportunity to choose. The one exception involves those children whose lives came to an end before they had become intellectually mature enough to understand their choices. A just God cannot punish those who are unable to comprehend, so He declared all such children innocent and counted them as His own (Romans 7:9).

Those who have accepted by faith the pardon He purchased for them will be granted an eternity of unparalleled blessing. Those who have chosen to earn their place in eternity through their own works will be shown their shortcomings and condemned to eternal punishment (Rev. 20:15). Since these are the only two choices available to mankind, those who will have opted out altogether will receive the same destiny as if they had refused the pardon God made available. Receiving the pardon requires a conscious choice to accept it (Romans 10:13). Refusing to choose at all is equivalent to rejecting it.

At that time Satan will receive his final judgment and will be condemned to eternal punishment along with all those who had refused to accept the pardon (Rev. 20:10).

The Conclusion
It’s sad to think that many who chose to earn their own way or refused to choose at all will have thought they were preserving their independence, exercising their freedom of choice. When it’s too late to change their minds they will finally realize that they were actually following Satan’s will, not their own. Remember, there have only ever been two wills in the universe, God’s and Satan’s. If we don’t choose God’s will for us, we’ve chosen Satan’s will by default. In the spiritual sense, free will is simply the option of choosing between God’s will and Satan’s. God wants us all to choose His will (2 Peter 3:9), but He won’t force us to do it.

I believe this is the secret of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, from which God commanded Adam not to eat (Genesis 2:16-17). As I’ve said, there was only one will on Earth at that time, and that was God’s will, which was “Good.” Eating the fruit of the forbidden tree introduced a second will, which was “Evil.” This was Satan’s will. By getting Adam and Eve to disobey God’s will, Satan was getting them to obey his will. In doing so, they acquired the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Somehow this altered their genetic make-up in such a way that this knowledge was passed to all their progeny. Today we call this the “flesh” or the “sin nature.” But I think it’s really the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the realization that there are two wills in the universe. We can choose which one to follow, but if we don’t consciously choose God’s will, Satan’s will becomes the default choice.

1 Cor. 15:24-28 tells us that the Lord Jesus will reign until He has put all of God’s enemies under His feet, including death.

Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all rule, authority and power (1 Cor. 15:24).

Before the Lord turns the kingdom over to His Father, He will destroy all rule, authority and power. The primary meaning of the Greek word for destroy is “to put down, deactivate or render inoperative.” The one for rule is “the origin, or active cause.” The one for authority is “the power of choice, the liberty of doing as one pleases” and the one for power includes “strength” or “ability.”

This means in eternity we who have accepted the pardon He purchased for us will no longer have the ability to disobey God’s will. The origin and active cause of our disobedience will have been rendered inoperative. The disastrous effects of Adam and Eve’s disobedience will have been reversed. The Knowledge of Good and Evil will be no more and there will finally be only one will in all of creation again, the will of God. That’s God’s plan in a nutshell. 01-31-15

https://gracethrufaith.com/topical-studies/tough-questions-answered/gods-plan-nutshell/#more-47883

 

[Brother Albert R.]

No, they did not. Evil is the result of disobedience. Jesus told us "God is good." That is what they knew in the beginning. Only good. Disobedience/rebellion resulted in evil. Led by Lucifer due to pride in his beauty and place as guardian cherub, a number of them chose to follow him in his rebellion. They learned evil soon enough. Those who did not follow Satan/Lucifer would also have learned about evil by seeing what happened.

I like what you wrote. I am reading both yours and Barry's Genesis study, I'm in section 3, and enjoying it very much. My question is not "did angels have sinful thoughts", but were they created similar to what God by nature has, which is knowing about both good and evil as He clearly states He does in Gen.3:22. I would enjoy further input.

God bless you,
your brother in Christ,
Albert R.

 

[Brother Albert R.]

Thank you Andy C.
I will be reading your post a few more times, because I've never heard that before.
Thank you,
God bless you,
your brother in Christ,
Albert R.

 

[Brother Albert R.]

God knew good and evil because He knew the end from the beginning -- Isaiah 46:10.

Neither men nor angels nor anything in creation had that knowledge.

Great reply.
God bless you,
your brother in Christ,
Albert R.

 

[DaveS]

Good morning sir,

I like what you wrote. I am reading both yours and Barry's Genesis study, I'm in section 3, and enjoying it very much. My question is not "did angels have sinful thoughts", but were they created similar to what God by nature has, which is knowing about both good and evil as He clearly states He does in Gen.3:22. I would enjoy further input.

God bless you,
your brother in Christ,
Albert R.

Errrr... with baited breath I've watched this thread.

Truly HelenS's reply is spot on, "God knew good and evil because He knew the end from the beginning; Neither men nor angels nor anything in creation had that knowledge.". God has certain characteristics as we know it that can't be duplicated (My view, which I think I can support). Omniscience is what Helen pointed out... Neither man nor angels were created with Omniscience, and if we were to ponder that, neither man nor angel could ever be created with Omniscience. Think about this... How long would it take to pour out infinite knowledge? It would take an infinite amount of time wouldn't it?

Therefore the spot on observation of Helen is a clue to an amazingly complex question you've asked... "were they created similar to what God by nature has".

If I may add a layer to your question I would please. God, is Omniscient... and God is OmniBenevolent. Everything God does is perfectly good, and perfectly just. God knows the beginning from the end, so every decision God makes it's the best possible decision that could have been made because God would know all of the possible outcomes. Therefore without Omniscience it's impossible to be OmniBenevolent, and I'd argue that it's impossible for God to create either because He would be creating Himself, Who Is... the Eternal God, the I AM (Ex. 3:14). God is outside of time, eternal, without beginning or end.

It's my opinion that this has to be considered when considering the question of whether God's creatures were created with the "knowledge of good and evil". And if they were not... since Genesis shows clues that the knowledge of good and evil (at least for humans) was acquired through failure of the test; what intellect did our first father (Adam) have. If humans are a clue to what happened in the angelic realm then (Gen. 1:27) is another clue to the question as well as (Eph. 3:10). It's my view that the answer to your question "were they created similar to what God by nature has" is a resounding yes. I think man and angel were both created spiritual, moral, and intellectual; which would agree with (Gen. 1:27), and would lay the foundation for the will of both creatures.


Thanks for starting a wonderfully complex and challenging thread Brother Albert R. Hooray for rabbit trails!!
Dave

 

[Brother Albert R.]

Thank you Dave S.,
That was no rabbit trail answer. Just like the rest, you have a great biblical response. I am not sitting on the fence when I say I have not settled on a position. Let me add this thought to my initial question, since God made everything good, and satan was able to "self corrupt", because he fell in love with himself more than God (self love, self worship, in my mind fall into the same category as being prideful, also vain glory and being conceited can be added to my list). My thought and speculation is that there is a world of difference in knowing about something and desiring that same thing. When I read in the paper that there has been a string of murders somewhere, just by being made aware of such evil does not make me want to do the same, as God is aware in the same way. Now I think the tricky part here is in how can we differentiate what it means to be "aware of evil" and "wanting to do evil". Cain was warned by God in Gen4:7 "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”. We further find in James 1:14 "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death"......, so we can see there is a progression where the outcome result is sin and death. Since God made everything good, He might have made both the choice and the awareness of disobeying His perfect will a real option without violating his good creation, to which love comes into play when it is expressed in obedience, as Jesus himself has stated in John14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
I am not trying to convince anyone to this way of thinking in what I am saying but I want to know if how I am thinking is scriptural. So, you will not offend me if you do not agree...just please tell me why.

I won't sleep until I understand this area better.

P.S. Thank you all for your responses.

God bless you,
your brother in Christ,
Albert R.

 

[Hol]

This is a helpful thread Brother Albert. I've sought the Lord myself in this. One helpful exercise, recommended by a teacher Charles Clough, is to write out the initial Eve & Adam disobedience. What did God instruct Adam, what did Satan say to Eve, her response, Adam's response, and God's 'looking' for them in the Garden and His judgement. Dr. Clough recommended one sheet of paper with four column headings: God's words, Satan's, Eve's & then Adam's. It's homework, but it really did help me.

Yet I sought to understand what was the temptation like for Eve? Why was she beguiled? While her error brought devastation, yet it was Adam who made a deliberate choice. If Eve was tricked, how was Adam's choice different?

I'm still trying to grasp it, and may not until we're with Christ and made like Him, but I'd like to offer one simple conclusion that has helped me immensely in my understanding.

Evil / death; results from rebellion / disobedience / self-will & pride; yet what all of that springs from is doubt. Whether Adam or Angels, created as perfect (and choice is part of being perfect); the doubt moment reminds me of the verse in Song of Solomon, 2:15, warning of the little foxes that spoil the tender vine. Doubt instead of loving trust, the kind of doubt (not the same as asking perplexing questions like yours!) but a doubt that contemplates God's character, His Word in an unloving manner is pride's open door. Adam had authority over all earth, including Eve. Maybe he took that in a naive way, not clearly teaching / guarding Eve's mind by carefully explaining that he understood it to be important that she avoid the forbidden tree? I can't wait to find out, but I imagine he watched horrified. He may have realized his culpability and so chose to take the consequences. We don't know if he had elected to not eat the fruit she offered if she could have been rehabilitated somehow. But I do think if you do the Charlie Clough exercise you'll see that Adam did not cry out to the Lord before he chose to listen to Eve.

Honestly, as I wrestle with this, what makes sense is that before sin, before disobedience, before pride / rebellion / death; there is doubt.

The cycle as my pastor puts it, is: doubt, disobey, defy (sp?).

 

[Jan51]

Evil / death; results from rebellion / disobedience / self-will & pride; yet what all of that springs from is doubt. Whether Adam or Angels, created as perfect (and choice is part of being perfect); the doubt moment reminds me of the verse in Song of Solomon, 2:15, warning of the little foxes that spoil the tender vine. Doubt instead of loving trust, the kind of doubt (not the same as asking perplexing questions like yours!) but a doubt that contemplates God's character, His Word in an unloving manner is pride's open door. ...

Honestly, as I wrestle with this, what makes sense is that before sin, before disobedience, before pride / rebellion / death; there is doubt.

The cycle as my pastor puts it, is: doubt, disobey, defy (sp?).

Doubt is not believing. The message of the Bible is that salvation is through believing God. So not believing results in doubt, pride, disobedience, defiance, death.

Why does mankind find it so hard to believe God--His character, His Word?

 

[Hol]

Doubt is not believing. The message of the Bible is that salvation is through believing God. So not believing results in doubt, pride, disobedience, defiance, death.

Why does mankind find it so hard to believe God--His character, His Word?

Jan, from my experience doubt can also simply be an upbringing when your own judgement is the authority.

My very first moment of discipline was very unexpected. I was maybe days old in faith, so my rational mind tried to take its usual control. I wasn't raised in any Sunday school setting. As a sinful & successful adult, after my conversion where I was born again my mind was still very secular. It shocked my mind to think there was a Christ who loved me as an individual so I rationalized, that there is a God and He loves nations, like Israel.

Ouch!! The Holy Spirit immediately convicted my doubt of that secular reasoning to let me (painfully) know He loves each individual. I can't describe the pain of the sudden awareness that He is so great, but I can tell you that non-churched people like I was, do not have a clue.

 

[DaveS]

Good morning sir,

(Thought 1)My thought and speculation is that there is a world of difference in knowing about something and desiring that same thing. (Thought 2)Now I think the tricky part here is in how can we differentiate what it means to be "aware of evil" and "wanting to do evil". (Thought 3)Since God made everything good, He might have made both the choice and the awareness of disobeying His perfect will a real option without violating his good creation, to which love comes into play when it is expressed in obedience, as Jesus himself has stated in John14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.

I hope you don't mind me dissecting and parsing your post. This is one of my favorite topics and I love to interact with people on it as I see that good, solid, foundational doctrine flows through it.

In regards to your first thought above. I would agree... Going back to the theme of creation (including the goodness of it) as it relates to that thought. Could God's creation be "good" without being designed with an intellect that recognizes the difference between right and wrong, and having been given the responsibility to choose between them? Could God even create a creature with intellect without giving it the power of choice? If such a creature could be created, that is a creature that could not choose good or evil, what are the implications? My list is below... (you're invited to add to it, or call me crazy ).

1. God would be creating an omnibenevolent being. One that could not choose evil... but in my opinion this would require a duplication of Himself. For God to create infinite love, God would need an infinite amount of time. This would violate (Gen. 1:1). There could be no creation of time with the creation of beings with infinite characteristics... We'd all be eternal.

2. God would be creating a being that could not choose good. This is a position that many find highly probable and yet claim all kinds of paradoxes in scripture because it leads to a very logical and pointed conclusion (I dislike paradox... it gets on my nerves). That is that God created evil.

In regards to your second thought. Is it tricky? Or does the thought conflate pre-fall and post-fall states of man? I ask since the notable example given after the thought is Cain. As I see it, the difference between awareness of evil and wanting to do evil, (or an inclination for evil) for Adam in particular was pre-fall and post fall. To evaluate the same question with Cain would require a gathering of all possible data concerning Cain, and all the data considering the state of man after the fall. It wasn't terribly long ago that I started a thread about Judas that had this same sort of theme in mind... it wasn't a very popular endeavor here at all. If you ever get an inclination of curiosity you might look it up.

In regards to your third thought. I agree... I think that man being created with choice was good. Matter of fact, I would point you back to a previous statement that I actually borrowed from a man whom I admire; since God is Omniscient, if the power of choice is correct, it's the best possible way for creation. One might say (I would) the only way for creation... Choice would be the most perfect expression of God's love in creation.

God bless your studies and multiply your questions and answers Brother AlbertR.
Dave

 

[DaveS]

Good morning Hol,

He may have realized his culpability and so chose to take the consequences.

I love it... I think that's a biblical hypothesis (I Tim. 2:14; Rom. 5:14). Most teachings I've read seem to portray Adam (whether they mean to or not) as a bumbling, naive, child-like idiot and liar.

Personally, I've found chasing that rabbit to be one of the most rewarding, and never-ending studies ever. I'm pretty sure it has made me the weird guy though...

Hope you are well,
Dave

 

[DaveS]

Doubt is not believing. The message of the Bible is that salvation is through believing God. So not believing results in doubt, pride, disobedience, defiance, death.

Why does mankind find it so hard to believe God--His character, His Word?

Maybe because man has been so busy trying to explain God's word. There are so many competing theories and people are so committed to protecting certain presuppositions. That might be just me though... I was raised unprotected from all of the chatter from different theories. I Thank God for godly servants and teachers. I think the majority of so called Christian sects despise a free salvation.

 

[Hol]

I get an email that has a daily devotion from ICR (Institute for Creation Research) that is very fitting for your thread Brother Albert! Before I paste it below, may I encourage you to not consider our ability to chose the same as knowledge of good and evil? Our choice is bigger than our knowledge, we trust that God is love and choose to respond based on His love, not our vast knowledge of good v. evil.

Why God Allows Choice
by Henry M. Morris III, D.Min. | Nov. 10, 2016
“And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.” (1 John 4:16)

It is absolutely clear that God is love (John 3:16; 1 John 4:19) Therefore, many have suggested that such a unilateral love as is cited in the above texts would require that God eliminate any judgment for disobedience to His commands, or that He create such a condition that all humanity would naturally love God as part of their basic personality.

The apparent conflict is often repeated in the false logic “If God loves the world and is all powerful, why would He allow evil?” Simply put, the answer is this: God is love; God loves mankind; love requires that a choice be made; choice allows for the possible rejection of God’s unilateral love. God, therefore, created humanity with the ability to positively respond to His love—or to consciously reject His offer of love.

The simple truth of the Scriptures is inescapable.

God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:5-10)

God allows for the possibility of evil so that human love may exist. HMM III

 

[Hol]

I think that man being created with choice was good. Matter of fact, I would point you back to a previous statement that I actually borrowed from a man whom I admire; since God is Omniscient, if the power of choice is correct, it's the best possible way for creation. One might say (I would) the only way for creation... Choice would be the most perfect expression of

Amen

 

[Brother Albert R.]

Once again thank you all,
I hope Barry and Helen do not mind if I post a portion of their Genesis study Section3, because I think it also pertains to the issue I presented. Here is what they wrote....

In John 14, in both verses 15 and 24 Jesus says that if a person loves Him, then the person will obey Him; and if a person does not obey Him, then the person does not love Him. There is a simple equation Jesus is presenting there. Love = obedience where God is concerned. And obedience is also a choice.

So why did God create man? To allow him to love and be loved. It's that simple. That is what will finally conform us to the image of Christ. But love is a choice, as obedience is. And we see in the Garden of Eden that every tree but one was there for the delight of Adam and Eve and to eat from. But one tree had to be there which was forbidden if there was to be a choice. Without that choice, there is no chance to choose to obey, or choose to love. Love requires a choice -- for all of us.

The Bible tells us that God's character is love: in 1 John 4:7-8 we read "Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."

Now go to Romans 8:28-30: "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

The main point for the purpose of this part of the discussion is that believers are to be conformed to the likeness of Christ Jesus. We are to be images of Him in the same way a mirror images you. The image is not you yourself, and we will never be little Christs! But the purpose of the Holy Spirit in us is to change us until we are true reflections of our Lord. Our characters will show Him. Philippians 1:6 says He will not stop until He has completed the good work He has begun in us. Hebrews 12 reminds us that those of us who are His will be disciplined -- because we are His. So the final purpose of our lives is to be conformed to the image of Christ. Couldn't God have just made us that way to begin with? Not if we were to love, and God is love.

Brother Albert comments below;
Thank you Barry and Helen for this study. I believe that in order for love to be proved, tried and tested as sincere and enduring there has to be a real choice or we, (not God), will never know throughout eternity if we would have chosen to stick with The Lord no matter the opposition. Stepping outside ourselves and imagining we are in eternity with The Lord, looking back at the time we have spent here on earth and the choice we have made to stick with The Lord will always remind of us our Love being true to our God. Maybe the same thing can be said of the angels, such as Michael, Gabriel and the like who are the elect angels who did choose not to leave the Lords given positions and chose to stick with Him as well. I listen to the lyrics of love songs be cause many of the artist, both secular and Christian, seem to have some very good insights into what Love does, what Love does not do, and how Love hurts when it is not reciprocated. There is one song that comes to mind "Love is the Answer" by England Dan & John Ford Coley. I think they got it right because "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."

God bless you,
your brother in Christ,
Albert R.