Dead in Christ

bap

Well-Known Member
Hello Bap,

My friend, you are missing the point. Below are excerpts from the main context regarding this issue:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Marriage of the Lamb

And I heard a sound like the roar of a great multitude, like the rushing of many waters, and like a mighty rumbling of thunder, crying out:

“Hallelujah!

For our Lord God, the Almighty, reigns. Let us rejoice and celebrate and give Him the glory. For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His bride has made herself ready. She was given clothing of fine linen, bright and pure.”

For the fine linen she wears is the righteous acts of the saints.

11Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. 12He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God.

14The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The interlinear has it as "Fine line, white and pure." However, the context is what we should be paying attention to here, not the words describing the linen. The context is not going to refer to the bride and then insert angels. First we see the bride receiving her "fine linen, white and pure." Then the context defines the meaning of the fine linen that she, the bride wears as representing the her righteous acts. Then, in V.14, you have the armies of heaven dressed in the same "fine linen, white and pure" following the Lord out of heaven on white horses. Therefore, staying within the context, it is the bride receiving her fine linen, white and pure who is in view here, with that army following Christ out of heaven on white horses also being identified as the bride by referring to them as wearing the same fine linen. In additional support that it is the bride who is in view here as being that army following Christ out of heaven, I have presented the following:

"They (the beast and ten kings) will make war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will triumph over them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and He will be accompanied by His called and chosen and faithful ones.” - Rev.17:14

The above is in reference to Rev.19:11-21 when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. Notice who the Lord is accompanied by when he departs from heaven to the earth: It is the "called, chosen and faithful followers." This would not be a description relating to angels, but to followers of Christ.

The entire context is regarding the bride who is receiving her fine line, white and pure which represents her righteous acts. Therefore, remaining in the context she, the bride, is that army identified as wearing that same fine line, white and pure that she will have previously been given at the wedding of the Lamb.

OK, Ash. This is not productive. We will use our Swords and ...

be at peace with one another
Mark 9:50

I am moving on to pearls and ivory and New Jerusalem. See you in the air at the Rapture!!
 
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bap

Well-Known Member
How ironic is this?

Feel like we are beating Swords (made of iron from the Early Iron Age circa 12th century BC) into plowshares here.

And He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore. Isaiah 2:4
 

bap

Well-Known Member
When the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts are consulted alongside English translations, one thing becomes abundantly clear; the English language can be remarkably inadequate when it comes to nuances in meaning.

Amen!! Therein lies the problem. Read those words over again.

You said it well, my Brother in the Lord.
 

bap

Well-Known Member
You have a humble response Bap. Don't beat yourself up, as you said... learn from this.

I've inadvertently posted some things I didn't realize weren't good sources and R.F. people kindly to let me know. Frankly there's such an avalanche of false teaching the probability of posting a bad source is increased.... sometimes even when one researches. But, I've appreciated the body of Christ here who share their knowledge and warn. :)

Thank you. The incredibly funny thing is I am very careful about apostasy; and when I am looking up Scriptures and biblical truths, I shun sites that are not in agreement with my beliefs even some that are Christian, and not cults, but perhaps more liberal.

I had searched for pearls and Jews mainly wanting to understand more; because of the comment which was not biblical, but rather an opinion:

I believe that Jesus knew that pearls were valued greatly in the eyes of the Jews around Him.​

I did not put in the Scripture references!! When those 2 articles came up, I was surprised because they had the very verses being mentioned.

Monday, I did put in the Scripture reference WHICH I NOW LOVE and came up with the following from Ray Stedman, who graduated from our beloved DTS here in Dallas, so I know he is credible. It also coincidentally has many of the same ideas about pearls that were in the other questionable articles.

It ministered to me to the point of tears about the beautiful gospel presentation and total surprise that it contained some prophetic references, as well as, encouragement for suffering as I am experiencing with our daughter and cancer pain. I hope it does the same for all who can take the time to read. I know that God allowed me to be diverted to this and am so grateful, but initially was quite frustrated in being taken off track. Now I have learned far more for here and now that was so much more important than my quest on New Jerusalem which I will get back to. (tee hee)

I wished I could copy it, but alas, it is copyrighted. I even reached out willing to pay, but was refused. I will attempt to paraphrase it, but it will not be with greater clarity and far inferior. I am a visual learner, but for those auditory people, there is also an audio version of his message.

The Case of the Valuable Pearl
Author: Ray C. Steadman
DATE: JULY 04, 1971

https://www.raystedman.org/new-testament/matthew/the-case-of-the-valuable-pearl

Chuck Swindoll said, "Ray Stedman is what I want to be when I grow up."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Stedman

https://www.raystedman.org/thematic-studies/ray-stedman/forward

https://www.raystedman.org/thematic-studies/ray-stedman


"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls, who, on finding one pearl of great value, went and sold all that he had and bought it." Matthew 13:45-46 RSV

This is connected to the parable earlier in verse 44 about the hidden treasure in a field that a man found and covered up and sold all that he had and bought the field. These two parables can be misinterpreted to be about man and salvation and that they mean the same thing. Number one, there is no way the gift of God of Jesus, salvation, could ever be bought by anyone. Second, Jesus would not have wasted words like that.

Ray comments that the Hebrew people never valued pearls and that there is no mention of pearls in the Old Testament even though rubies, diamonds, topazes and sapphires are. Gentiles went to Galilee so they were familiar with Gentile traders who were looking for valuable pearls and would pay tremendous prices to purchase them -- for their kings not for themselves. The disciples understood the symbols our Lord used. It is similar to the parable of the hidden treasure in the field of humanity. The treasure represents the nation, Israel. What else does God value in this world? What is the meaning of the pearl of great price? Who else did Jesus give all that He had to obtain? The Church is represented by this pearl.

Christ loved the Church and gave Himself up for her...that He might present the Church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. Ephesians 5:25b, 5:27 RSV

Why did Jesus choose the symbol of the pearl for the Church? Why not other jewels or gems? The pearl is the only jewel which is the product of living matter. A pearl grows out of suffering as the response of an oyster to something that causes it hurt and pain. A pearl is formed when a grain of sand or another irritating substance gets inside the oyster shell like cracker crumbs in bed. Since the oyster cannot brush the irritant out, it transmutes and transforms the thing that is injuring it; covering it with soft and delicate and shining nacre building it layer by layer, adding it until a magnificent jewel, the pearl, is formed.

This slight, momentary affliction is preparing for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory,.
2 Corinthians 4:17


The pearl is a beautiful symbol that the Lord chose for the church. Jesus out of love, gave all that He had for the Church on the cross by dying for us. It demonstrates the hurt in the heart of God as He identifies with us. He sacrificed all that He had and took our place for the penalty of sin and is healing the hurt of our human hearts. He came down and entered into what we feel because of sin -- hurt, agony, heartache, loneliness, sorrow, shame, and darkness.

He who knew no sin was made sin for us.
2 Corinthians 5:21

Ray then talks about prophecy and the glory of a restored earth when the desert shall blossom and the curse shall be removed from nature and from the animal world and men shall live in harmony and peace with swords beaten into plowshares and spears into pruning hooks.

"for lo, the winter is past,
the rain is over and gone.
The flowers appear on the Earth,
the time of singing has come,
and the voice of the turtledove
is heard in our land."
Song of Solomon 2:11-12 RSV

The pearl is not ultimately intended for Earth, but rather for the heavens. We learn from Paul that the pearl will be lifted out of the troubled sea of human sorrow for God to manifest His grace and glory in all the ages to come.




Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
 
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bap

Well-Known Member
prophetic
Well, Hebrews 11:13-16 is certainly true and applies to ALL of those in the Faith Hall of Fame. But it does not give us an exposition of the two summary verses at the end of this eleventh chapter.

The Holy Spirit, through Paul, tells us that at the Rapture the "dead in Christ" will rise first (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Who are the dead "in Christ"?

Your Answer is ..... ?????
 

sara ann

Well-Known Member
I don't retain thoughts too well now adays...now I'm really confused....please post the correct understanding and I will try to remember I will check back later...thanks
 
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bap

Well-Known Member
I don't retain thoughts too well now adays...now I'm really confused....please post the correct understanding and I will try to remember I will check back later...thanks

I'm sorry. I do not understand. Can you please be more specific?
 

sara ann

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry. I do not understand. Can you please be more specific?
bap....it's not you it's me ......hahahaha.....I would love to be ABLE to be specific...You are doing good...it's me who is slipping...(but it's ok...I know HE has got me)
 
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bap

Well-Known Member
No, Sweet Sara, help me understand with a few words or which post, if you would like
 

sara ann

Well-Known Member
You are kind Bap....I'm laughing at myself...it's ok....You keep on with you study ....our Lord will reward you for searching...
 
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bap

Well-Known Member
You are kind Bap....I'm laughing at myself...it's ok....You keep on with you study ....our Lord will reward you for searching...

Well, please feel free to share, and I know someone will try to answer. If I can, I will try to keep it brief so as to not overwhelm.
 

bap

Well-Known Member
Hello Bap,

My friend, you are missing the point. Below are excerpts from the main context regarding this issue:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Marriage of the Lamb

And I heard a sound like the roar of a great multitude, like the rushing of many waters, and like a mighty rumbling of thunder, crying out:

“Hallelujah!

For our Lord God, the Almighty, reigns. Let us rejoice and celebrate and give Him the glory. For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His bride has made herself ready. She was given clothing of fine linen, bright and pure.”

For the fine linen she wears is the righteous acts of the saints.

11Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. 12He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God.

14The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The interlinear has it as "Fine line, white and pure." However, the context is what we should be paying attention to here, not the words describing the linen. The context is not going to refer to the bride and then insert angels. First we see the bride receiving her "fine linen, white and pure." Then the context defines the meaning of the fine linen that she, the bride wears as representing the her righteous acts. Then, in V.14, you have the armies of heaven dressed in the same "fine linen, white and pure" following the Lord out of heaven on white horses. Therefore, staying within the context, it is the bride receiving her fine linen, white and pure who is in view here, with that army following Christ out of heaven on white horses also being identified as the bride by referring to them as wearing the same fine linen. In additional support that it is the bride who is in view here as being that army following Christ out of heaven, I have presented the following:

"They (the beast and ten kings) will make war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will triumph over them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and He will be accompanied by His called and chosen and faithful ones.” - Rev.17:14

The above is in reference to Rev.19:11-21 when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. Notice who the Lord is accompanied by when he departs from heaven to the earth: It is the "called, chosen and faithful followers." This would not be a description relating to angels, but to followers of Christ.

The entire context is regarding the bride who is receiving her fine line, white and pure which represents her righteous acts. Therefore, remaining in the context she, the bride, is that army identified as wearing that same fine line, white and pure that she will have previously been given at the wedding of the Lamb.

I'll bet you wonder why, I said Ash. It's because I thought your screen username was Ashwatukee. I just realized it is Ahwatukee. I am sorry.
 

Ahwatukee

Active Member
I'll bet you wonder why, I said Ash. It's because I thought your screen username was Ashwatukee. I just realized it is Ahwatukee. I am sorry.

Not a problem. Ahwatukee is the name of the township that I lived in which was actually apart of Phoenix. Now I'm here in Lake Havasu City, Arizona, but I'm still Ahwatukee :)
 

bap

Well-Known Member
Well, Hebrews 11:13-16 is certainly true and applies to ALL of those in the Faith Hall of Fame. But it does not give us an exposition of the two summary verses at the end of this eleventh chapter.

The Holy Spirit, through Paul, tells us that at the Rapture the "dead in Christ" will rise first (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Who are the dead "in Christ"?

Is this a trick question?
 
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