Days of Lot vs today

Jan51

Well-Known Member
I don't think we have to see the exact see described in Lot's day, I think that was an example of the depths of depravity of the unsaved world. Not only are the underground things happening, but look at the rapidly growing influences in the schools and entertainment world to purposely sexualize children, to say nothing of the immorality and brutality that has become widely accepted and consumed for years in music, TV, movies, online content, and gaming.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
And then there is the clothing industry, for years now little girls have been dressing like little hookers because that is what is available and fashionable. I'd dress my little girl in jeans and T-shirts before I would buy any of that. And then there is the prevalence among kids of sexting. Everyone having phones from a young age with access to texting and porn is a huge problem.
 

Umbrella Girl

Now we see through a glass, darkly; (1 Cor 13:12)
There is only one thing that makes us righteous and it is not our works or lack thereof.
Christ’s imputed righteousness based on our belief in Him.
I’ve done many a wicked thing since I have been saved.
True…

But offering up his daughters to be gang raped is wickedness to an EXTREME degree…

And if that wasn’t disgusting and wicked enough, he then got drunk and had sex with his daughters. Incest…:sick

Yet I understand that since God declared Lot righteous, I cannot question it. I usually try not to think too hard on such things, as it does me no good…
 
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Amethyst

Angie ... †
True…

But offering up his daughters to be gang raped is wickedness to an EXTREME degree…

And if that wasn’t disgusting and wicked enough, he then got drunk and had sex with his daughters. Incest…:sick

Yet I understand that since God declared Lot righteous, I cannot question it. I usually try not to think too hard on such things, as it does me no good…
I do understand what you’re saying and how you feel for sure
But scripture tells is that “the heart [everyones heart] is wicked above all else, who can understand?”
I guess we take that to mean regardless of outward actions, within our old nature dwells the capacity for al kinds of evil.

However like you, had God not explicitly said Lot was righteous I would not have believed it!

I also think of Solomon. How hard did he fall? His latter years were spent making sacrifices on the “high places” to false gods in his list for various women of his harem.
 

Bethlehem57

Well-Known Member
Men trying to get pregnant, men marrying men, women marrying women, homosexual pastors, abortion and the uproar of the SCOTUS ruling on Roe v Wade (long overdue), sexual immorality, opposition to anything Christian, violence, our own government trying to make our nation fall into famine, recession, the green deal, ANTIFA, BLM, division of the masses by politicians who worship Satan and can’t get enough power or money, the lefts‘ absolute abandonment of any good thing or any common sense, their push for a one world government, open borders, population control, outright godlessness, the falling away of the Church, I know there’s a lot more ……..

After reading your list (Bethlehem57) of all the depravity around us it kind of hit me that perhaps we don't really realize how close we are because it starts out slow and then rapidly accelerates and our minds can't grasp it all. We hear about it, read about it, watch it on TV, but we really don't experience it first hand. It's almost like it's happening in some other place, but not in my neighborhood. Lot didn't have social media, TV or the Internet so he saw it up close and personal.

It's like that story about putting a frog in a pot of water and then slowly turning up the heat. The frog doesn't realize he's boiling until it's too late. This wickedness in our country has been going on for a long time, but now we are seeing the fruits of what was sown and the water is still boiling!
I started reading your post and immediately thought…”frog in the pot!” It’s like…get outta my head!. We who are believers think alike!
 

Umbrella Girl

Now we see through a glass, darkly; (1 Cor 13:12)
Those “righteous“ listed in the OT were saved “on credit” (their Redeemer having yet to be born). Lot was a hypocrite but his faith had come from Abraham. In our dispensation that’s not enough and the Holy Spirit inside us chafes against the horrible stories in the OT. Lot’s wife became a pillar of salt for looking back - Lot’s daughters tried to do the get-Noah-drunk thing because they were all stuck in a cave and feared they could not have children. Weird stuff back then.
If we try to understand certain things from the OT, two things are certain:
-complete explanations are often missing.
-you will drive yourself nuts.
Thank you! The way that you explained it is very helpful to me…
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
True…

But offering up his daughters to be gang raped is wickedness to an EXTREME degree…

And if that wasn’t disgusting and wicked enough, he then got drunk and had sex with his daughters. Incest…:sick

Yet I understand that since God declared Lot righteous, I cannot question it. I usually try not to think too hard on such things, as it does me no good…
God sent the angels to rescue Lot and his family, so I will back off in trying to fully understand why, but because God did, it was Righteous and Just.

I think in my previous post, the explanation Jack gave about Lot and his daughters is a good one. Lot did what he did in order to provide a safe haven for the Angels, but Im sure the Angels could take care of themselves.

Lots daughters waited until their dad was drunk and passed out, and they initiated the sex with him in order to have children.

Throughout this thread, many seem to be asking if God knew what He was doing in rescuing Lot.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
True…

But offering up his daughters to be gang raped is wickedness to an EXTREME degree…

And if that wasn’t disgusting and wicked enough, he then got drunk and had sex with his daughters. Incest…:sick

Yet I understand that since God declared Lot righteous, I cannot question it. I usually try not to think too hard on such things, as it does me no good…
I forgot to add incest was not considered a sin in the time of Lot, but was normal. Abraham married his half sister, several biblical OT characters married their cousins. Incest was not considered forbidden until it was mentioned in the book of Leviticus.

Without incest in the early days of man, none of us would be here today.
 

Mocha Latte

Active Member
Reading through this thread is informative and very interesting. On one hand, we don’t have hordes of men in public spaces gang raping others (men, women, and children!). But on the other hand we do have a lot of sex trafficking, abuse of children, prostitution, prevalent rape (in some countries as mentioned above), and other atrocities. I may have seen this discussed elsewhere but I THINK the real problems come when societies start making laws that legalize these atrocities. ie -when society is so corrupt that it is allowed and preferred by the masses to legalize sin. That is what we’ve been seeing in recent years…and it is the slow creeping rot that’s just a little bit at a time. Frog in the pot! First, certain states started legalizing gay marriage, then like a snowball it is prevalent and allowed everywhere. Next they are pushing for more “rights” (translation: legalize more sin), then an aggressive trans movement and now they’re pushing all kinds of agendas on children. CHILDREN! And trying to make it accepted and common place. I can’t get over how wrong these things are to be indoctrinating and grooming very young children with. I’m sorry this bothers me so much (and I don’t even have kids!), but Jesus pronounced woes on those who harm children and who cause the little ones to stumble. Our wonderful Savior had a special place in His heart for the innocent children among us for a reason.

So while it’s different than Lot’s time could we say the description of Lot’s time is worse? Or is it worse to legalize sin and enshrine it in law all while sexualizing children? Is this worse? I don’t know the official answer as to when it crosses the invisible line, but I think that while it’s DIFFERENT in some respects we could already be there (if not, at least VERY close).
 

Jaybird

Well-Known Member
We all know that the Scripture talks about the evil in Lot and Noah's time being a sign of the end times and we are trying to quantify this so we know if the evil we see in our times is the same or greater than what Lot and Noah were exposed to. We do not know for sure. Lot was vexed. We all feel vexed about what is going on, but how much worse will it get before the Rapture?

The Scripture also mentions in Matthew 24:38-39: "For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man." I doubt that during the tribulation people will be eating, drinking and marrying due to the hyperinflation, famine, wars, etc.. At some level there will be, but my understanding of this is that life will be somewhat normal and then sudden destruction.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
Reading through this thread is informative and very interesting. On one hand, we don’t have hordes of men in public spaces gang raping others (men, women, and children!). But on the other hand we do have a lot of sex trafficking, abuse of children, prostitution, prevalent rape (in some countries as mentioned above), and other atrocities. I may have seen this discussed elsewhere but I THINK the real problems come when societies start making laws that legalize these atrocities. ie -when society is so corrupt that it is allowed and preferred by the masses to legalize sin. That is what we’ve been seeing in recent years…and it is the slow creeping rot that’s just a little bit at a time. Frog in the pot! First, certain states started legalizing gay marriage, then like a snowball it is prevalent and allowed everywhere. Next they are pushing for more “rights” (translation: legalize more sin), then an aggressive trans movement and now they’re pushing all kinds of agendas on children. CHILDREN! And trying to make it accepted and common place. I can’t get over how wrong these things are to be indoctrinating and grooming very young children with. I’m sorry this bothers me so much (and I don’t even have kids!), but Jesus pronounced woes on those who harm children and who cause the little ones to stumble. Our wonderful Savior had a special place in His heart for the innocent children among us for a reason.

So while it’s different than Lot’s time could we say the description of Lot’s time is worse? Or is it worse to legalize sin and enshrine it in law all while sexualizing children? Is this worse? I don’t know the official answer as to when it crosses the invisible line, but I think that while it’s DIFFERENT in some respects we could already be there (if not, at least VERY close).
I completely agree. As bad as these days are we are not at the level of evil that was present in Lot's time. I hate to say this, but it can get MUCH worse and I believe it will. :(
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
I don't remember where I heard it, but I do remember it was a pastor at a church.........
That Lot offered up his daughters, instead of the angels, because he knew the men outside would not want them.
They didn't want women...............only men.
I have not heard that. Interesting thought.
 

Salluz

Aspiring Man of God
Lot was justified in the eyes of God by faith, since he was called righteous. It's interesting to compare him with Abraham, who was justified in the eyes of man by his act of taking Isaac to be sacrificed, believing he would be raised from the dead.

Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness, and then later on in life, he acted on his faith and served as a positive example to all the generations afterward.

Lot was righteous. This is confirmed in the Old and New testaments. But his sinful actions seemed to have utterly ruined his testimony. The people he tried warn of the coming judgment thought he was joking. Now we scratch our heads at his actions.

But isn't righteousness by faith alone in Christ alone? Or in their case, faith alone in the coming messiah alone.

His story is one of weak faith and continuous sin, but we have confirmation in the New Testament that we will see him in Heaven. Glory to God for his mercy and grace that extends to even the worst of sinners.
 

Spartan Sprinter 1

Formerly known as Shaun
Lot was justified in the eyes of God by faith, since he was called righteous. It's interesting to compare him with Abraham, who was justified in the eyes of man by his act of taking Isaac to be sacrificed, believing he would be raised from the dead.

Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness, and then later on in life, he acted on his faith and served as a positive example to all the generations afterward.

Lot was righteous. This is confirmed in the Old and New testaments. But his sinful actions seemed to have utterly ruined his testimony. The people he tried warn of the coming judgment thought he was joking. Now we scratch our heads at his actions.

But isn't righteousness by faith alone in Christ alone? Or in their case, faith alone in the coming messiah alone.

His story is one of weak faith and continuous sin, but we have confirmation in the New Testament that we will see him in Heaven. Glory to God for his mercy and grace that extends to even the worst of sinners.
Good comparison
 

GHoe

Well-Known Member
I am aware that this is happening underground. Yet that is the key difference. This is not happening out in the open where the majority of people are encouraging this or demanding this as acceptable as in the story of Lot. Very different environments.
I gotta agree.. men of all ages walking around publicly, demanding to rape other men is an evolution of sin we have not yet reached. And even when blinded they exhausted themselves trying to locate the door handle. That tells me that it was acceptable and possibly even considered "their right" at that time if possible. Not only lust but pride may have been involved in that story. Those men felt justified and entitled to go after what they desired. There was no shame.

Looking at the (alphabet) agenda, I can see how it's evolving little by little and how we could end up with not only sexual preference being protected by rights and law (current situation) but actionable sexual desires being a right and protected. I think there are a few signs we are on our way..

-The public grooming of children via media, schools and even parents. To get to a place where same sex assault by a certain community is a right, the whole population needs to be taught / brainwashed from an early age that it's natural.

-The government/media/cultural push for the population to go along with the fantasy that a man can be a woman and woman a man and all the other silly variants. This is how we know it's satanic in nature. The Bible says in Romans 1:25, "They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen." To me the scripture directly correlates with this world's actions.
 
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