Coronavirus update

Narrow Path

Well-Known Member
I generally pay more attention to news sources that report the news rather than those who give opinions that are contrary to all the available evidence. If it contradicts the independent experts views then I would want to check other sources to verify the evidence.

As for us not being out of the woods yet - that is obvious to everyone.

As athenasius pointed out, the banned sources may not be wrong all the time - but they are wrong a lot of the time.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Some stories are accurate and some contain accurate bits with a spin. ZH spin was very evident in that story. Which is why I broke it down. If I seemed like I was corroborating while discrediting, yes, I was. The parts that were accurate enough, have a very different context if seen thru a different lens. The problem with reporting, is that a reporter has to spin a story a bit in order to cut it down to size. And to make it appealing, it needs more spin.

ZH is big on feeding into conspiracy theories. Don't get me wrong, there are bad actors around the world, including the Bilderberg group, and people like Soros. But when everything is spun then nothing makes sense, and I've been trying very hard to bring perspective to this story.

And In case I came across as making light of this disease, I am by no means trying to make light of the appalling loss of life happening in China. That is real and far more widespread than Xi Jinping would like the world to know. I just want to bring some much needed balance to the reporting.

When this is over, and the medical analysis is begun I wouldn't be surprised to find something or set of things within China are making it worse, whether that is TB, plus pollution, plus rationed medical care on top of crowded conditions within the hospitals.

If you have a population that struggles with air conditions that create lung problems, and already have a lot of TB, adding in a virus that attacks the lungs and causes viral pneumonia on top of all the other things-- means people will need extra medical care to survive. People who would otherwise get thru this if they lived in the West, without TB, without regular smog attacks in their cities, without over crowding, with access to clean air, water and food. People whose government's first response isn't to let them die and burn their bodies as fast as possible to avoid being held accountable.

And the news reports out of China look like they aren't getting that care. The small amount of reserves in the medical system have been burnt thru in the initial stages. The numbers of newly sick who need medical help to survive thru the second and third weeks of the illness are too many for China to cope with.

They are desperately trying to control the news narratives coming out of there, attempting by any and all means to cover up their mistakes, to gloss over their part in this awful die off of their people. They are playing with numbers, burning bodies and killing their own people by neglect or by rounding up into quarantine facilities that are nothing but death camps.

What I want to see, is a more balanced view of this disease, both from an unbiased medical research team if there is such a thing anymore, and reported in an unbiased way.

What I see is much of the media engaging in whipping up public panic in the west, to sell newspapers and ads on the TV news. That is sometimes done by spinning a story to create a conspiracy theory around it.

I see a desperate few Chinese who are getting the news out as they can, when they can to a world that either panics or ignores them. And sometimes their stories are in the alternate media because the mainstream media doesn't want to focus too much on their plight, other than to create more fear if they can.

2 Timothy 1:7 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

And there is a verse in Isaiah I think, that rebukes the people of Israel for looking for conspiracies rather than looking to God. I'll add it in when I find it.

Here it is:

Isaiah 8:12 New International Version (NIV)
12 “Do not call conspiracy
everything this people calls a conspiracy;
do not fear what they fear,
and do not dread it.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
No offense intended, but no news source “just reports the news”. All news is opinion / bias based. Always has been, always will be. One of the 5 “W”’s of journalism is “why”.... that’s where the bias fills in the cracks between the facts of who, what, when, where
Yes but.... Some news sources are better than others at presenting some facts mixed in with the spin.

Just as Animal Farm (and many a communist society) points out ----that some animals are more equal than others.
 

Narrow Path

Well-Known Member
Narrow Path,

Please do not misquote me. I did not say ''Just reports the news'' I said ''report the news'' I also did not say they do not give opinions.

My point is that I do not heed conspiracy sites opinions if they are opposed to what the independent experts say.
I’m not going to argue semantics. Peace to you brother or sister.
 

Narrow Path

Well-Known Member
Yes but.... Some news sources are better than others at presenting some facts mixed in with the spin.
True. Unfortunately the journalistic legitimacy of an information source is in the mind of the beholder. Personally, I don’t waste my time with obvious click bait sensationalists like Infowars. Oher places hold more credibility with me than they do here. Fine. We all have to make our own judgment call. Ironically, I know Jan Markel is popular here, and I have listened to her podcasts for years, but she would be the very definition of a conspiracist according to the standards here.
Fear mongering is detrimental. Alerting people to the potential of peril is constructive. There is a fine line between the two.
 

Lovin Jesus

Well-Known Member
No offense intended, but no news source “just reports the news”. All news is opinion / bias based. Always has been, always will be. One of the 5 “W”’s of journalism is “why”.... that’s where the bias fills in the cracks between the facts of who, what, when, where
I've come to understand that in today's "news" it is actually a mixture of both journalism and opinion. So, sometimes we are getting a combination of fact mixed with personal viewpoint and interpretation. This makes it hard to distinguish the difference between the two because we end up getting different information from one source to another.
 

Narrow Path

Well-Known Member
I've come to understand that in today's "news" it is actually a mixture of both journalism and opinion. So, sometimes we are getting a combination of fact mixed with personal viewpoint and interpretation. This makes it hard to distinguish the difference between the two because we end up getting different information from one source to another.
Yep, it’s always been that way. Total bias free news is impossible in anything but the simplest of events that merit coverage. Folks my age and older love to naively romanticize the era of Walter Cronkite as some sort of untainted “golden era”. The truth is that the leftist media at that time simply didn’t have the information superhighway to challenge their monopoly of news dissemination.
Sorry everybody, didn’t mean to derail this COVID 19 discussion. Get your news where you see fit. I’ll just say, get prepared. Better to over prepare than under.
 

Lovin Jesus

Well-Known Member
It's reported that when the virus first broke out in China and scientists alerted the government about it they still allowed 5,000 million people to leave the country. This is how it spread worldwide. A Doctor interviewed on foxnews said that there is a lot that's still not known about this virus but after a 14 day quartentine people are being released into the public and this is concerning since they don't fully understand all there is to know about this virus. This includes how it is actually spread. They are treating it similar to other Coronaviruses but they really can't if they don't have enough information on it. Though there are similarities in the viruses, this one is different in many ways.
 
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Jan51

Well-Known Member
I've come to understand that in today's "news" it is actually a mixture of both journalism and opinion. So, sometimes we are getting a combination of fact mixed with personal viewpoint and interpretation. This makes it hard to distinguish the difference between the two because we end up getting different information from one source to another.
And there is also controlled information, partial information, and disinformation. Probably more possibilities than those...
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
I don't want to derail this thread but maybe this will help a little.

There are verifiable facts-- things like General B was promoted to the head of the fight against the aliens from planet Zorg. :wink
ok so not in THIS space time continuum, but just to keep it out of the anxiety zone lets go to the fight against the green skins from Zorg who are invading.

Lets throw another "fact" into the mix, General B's sister in law was employed by a group that HATES ALL ALIENS including the nice ones from planet Teapot. Who have been warning us against the evil Zorgians. (no relation to the Tea Party, these are the benevolent Teapotters)

And a third "fact". General B took a speaking engagement last year with a company KNOWN to have economic links to ZORG. Zorg has paid them to do their PR for years.

There is opinion-- General B is the BEST/WORST choice EVER

There is spin or bias --- General B is "obviously" in favour of ZORG --- General B is "obviously" a ZORGOPHOBE therefore we can't/can trust him.

and there is propaganda --- General B has just been promoted to the fight against the aliens from the planet Zorg but as we are well aware by this time he has a history of working for Zorg indirectly with that Company that Zorg employed last year to tell us all that they love us and want the best for us. WE KNOW they are LIARS, and this company is a LIAR so therefore GENERAL B is a LIAR and our Government is LYING. You should vote for the OPPOSITION because They KNOW what is going on, and have a plan to help us defeat the evil planet Zorg. Meanwhile keep a close eye on General B because his methods are frighteningly close to other things we've seen him do in the past.

or propaganda from the other direction--- General B has just been promoted to the fight against the aliens from the planet Zorg but as we are all well aware, he is the best choice out of all the candidates due to his dislike of all invading aliens including the problematic TeaParty Teapotters who are definitely on our radar these days for acting in a very suspicious manner. His sister in law sat down for a long in depth interview with our unbiased reporter who was startled to find just how General B aligns with the things we've been saying here for YEARS at Wonderful World of Wonky News.

I'll put you all out of your misery with the planet Zorg now.

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The golden Cronkite era (I was around then) presented facts and opinion. I disagree that it was biased just because everything is biased. Walter Sr. was able to keep his opinions to himself for the most part, and the major newspapers were pretty good too. OP ED segments were clearly labelled as such whether in the paper or on the news. And those would be biased and sometimes with a healthy dose of propaganda tossed in depending on the news source. Nowadays I am VERY aware that most of what passes for news mixes the facts, in with bias and opinion and is often slanted to help me make a conclusion in the way that classic propaganda works. As I said upthread, some news sources are better than others.

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How I look at things is kind of a filter of probability.

I start with what I know for sure, moving onto what are the verifiable facts. Then I try to ignore the conclusions the writer is throwing at me. ESPECIALLY the ones that take a giant leap from a fact to a conclusion without anything in between. So the Chinese want to use germ warfare in future? Everyone knows that. That is a fact. BUT what appears to be a containment leak from one of their germ warfare research labs that has sickened their own, killing many of their own, doesn't automatically mean that they allowed this leak on purpose to kill the rest of us. That's the kind of leap that the article in Zero Hedge made. AND THAT is a logical fallacy.

______________________________________________________________

Here's how I start with reading and thinking about an article I just read applying my filter of probability.

What do I know for sure? I will start where I always try to.

The Bible is always right, God is always Truthful. So what does the BIBLE say about this situation or one very like it?

Psalm 2:4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
He who sits in the heavens laughs,
The Lord scoffs at them.

Proverbs 21:1 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The king’s heart is like channels of water in the hand of the Lord;
He turns it wherever He wishes.

That tells me that no matter what leaders around the world plan and plot, God will turn their hearts to HIS wish. I will refrain from giving a number of similar verses. God sits on HIS throne and laughs at the counsel of the wicked, HE is the one who determines the path of history.

The Bible says I am not to fear, because GOD is in control. I'm not to be afraid of conspiracies, even if they are very real, and they are.
Isaiah 8:12 New International Version (NIV)
“Do not call conspiracy
everything this people calls a conspiracy;
do not fear what they fear,
and do not dread it.

Let's pause a moment. Conspiracies EXIST. There are threats. We are to take PRUDENT actions to protect ourselves. But we are NOT to be in FEAR.

Proverbs 22:3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The prudent sees the evil and hides himself,
But the naive go on, and are punished for it.

At this point, I am reminded to take prudent precautions from what seems to be a threat. As someone with autoimmune problems, married to someone fighting a brain tumour I will take all the steps I've outlined in this and many other threads on this virus.

But will I sit around worrying that this might have come from China's plans to rule the world? NOPE, I've gone into those threats on many other threads-- from germ warfare to destabilizing currency, to slowly but surely trying to create a bottle neck situation in the Panama canal, and their use of smiling friendly students and scientists who take home lab samples, software, engineering and computer design breakthroughs to their masters in charge back at China central.

Not only do I know (high degree of probability here) that their plans for the eventual takeover of the West are chugging along like a freight train, I ALSO know what the Bible says.

And I've been thinking that this virus is just the ticket to slow them down a bit while Magog Central moves forward into WORLD DOMINATION! YEP RUSSIA will HAVE to be more powerful than their old Frenemy China quite soon, in time for Ez 38. WHY? Because the entire world is afraid to even question them as they invade Israel except for Tarshish and her cubs plus Saudi Arabia and Yemen. (oh yeah, they are Sheba, and they will eventually fold into alignment with Dedan aka Saudi Arabia)

Here is another area where you can criticize me all you like. I reserve my right as a thinking individual Christian to both LIKE and DISAGREE with ministries that are allowed or that a lot of us follow. There are things Jan Markell says (JD, or Jack Hibbs or ...) that I completely, emphatically disagree with, yet I will still recommend them IN GENERAL because IN GENERAL their basic beliefs and theology match what I've found is safe and reasonable. If I recommend a book or a ministry (or Chris the owner of this site does) I think everyone needs to remember we are all human, and err greatly at times. GROWNUP Christians can discern. Babies not so much.

The same goes for news sources. @Chris has a list of sources he is uncomfortable with. We may not all agree on what are good news sources BUT anything we post on here, goes by Chris's rules for obvious reasons. I happen to agree with him for a lot of the sources he doesn't allow. If we were all on the same wavelength of being able to sift thru the facts versus opinion, versus bias, versus downright propaganda, then maybe it would be ok to bat these around but I've seen enough MULE FRITTERS as Colonel Potter would say (thanks @Almost Heaven) coming out of Zero Hedge to make them a very suspicious news source indeed.

So my Probability filter goes to FACTS next
FACTS are things nobody can dispute. It's like absolute truth. President Trump did X for example. It's a fact. Last Tuesday he did X.

NOW HOW ABOUT THAT BIAS?

My Probability filter puts on hold for a bit the next bit of fluff that might say this: President Trump did X because Trump is a .... fill in the blank with any number of things the left says or any number of things the right says.

I stop and think a moment-- do I agree with the concept that Trump is a .... freedom loving patriot who has the best interests of America at heart?

I think about the number of times I've seen him behave consistently with being a freedom loving.....etc.

Or if it's a leftist rag I'm reading, I think about the number of times he has behaved (NOT ACCUSED OF, but BEHAVED--verifiable evidence here) as a umm racist anti feminist lets say.

I then make my judgement to allow the statement to pass my sniff test, and go on reading.

I won't drag you thru the rest of the filter but lets just say, I believe less and less the more often the writer asks me to make a jump from President Trump DID X over to HE DID IT CAUSE HE IS......fill in the blank.

Cause and effect are assumed a lot with genuine BIAS, and with Propaganda while OPINION pieces are written to persuade on the basis of carefully chosen fact. Opinion pieces are done with the honest disclosure of bias, and the honest hope you will take their point of view and consider all or part as being valid.

Bias, and Propaganda, jump from fact to create a false cause and effect and the writer doesn't honestly state their own bias or any other valid critiques.

Conspiracy Theorists in the worst cases, take facts and twist them to fit their scenario as PROOF.

In the Zero Hedge Article, that was happening. We were going from facts-- the viral outbreak in China to "proof" that the Chinese launched this virus as germ warfare right now on purpose and the proof of that was the appointment of that general in charge of germ warfare labs to the whole fight the virus effort in China.

Fact-- China IS involved in germ warfare. I not only agree with that, I can point to multiple other ways to prove that as fact.
Fact-- general whats his name was appointed in charge (and is very qualified from the Chinese leadership's point of view no doubt)
Fact-- the Chinese are dying but the rest of us are not dying at that rate.
Fact-- the Chinese economy is suffering greatly as a result

Zero Hedge's conclusion --"proof" that the Chinese are secretly using this to destroy the rest of the world.

My conclusion--- the Chinese had a containment breach at the lab IF it's proven that this virus has man made insertions but as I've said upthread and elsewhere viruses are well known to do that on their own, and there is over a millennia of history with China as ground zero for the viral war on mankind.

And the Chinese are hurting worse than the rest of the world.

what I think is happening from a prophecy point of view is that God is knocking the Chinese agenda back a bit, to allow Russia to come to the foreground as a world power without having to contend with China as a serious alternate.

When America loses it's power, Russia will surge into place. NOT CHINA.

and in China, Christians are going about helping the sick, getting sick, dying but all around they are sharing the gospel. Looks like God pulling in a bunch more of the lost just before the Rapture. The FULLNESS OF THE GENTILES??????

that's what I see.
 
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Lovin Jesus

Well-Known Member
I know I may be going off this thread a little but it does tie in with what is happening. Just a thought, putting in perspective the outbreak of this global epidemic along with everything else going on right now, I wonder if people who reject the bible and the author of the bible even recognize Jesus warning of the things that are obviously occurring at this time are unfolding just as he said. Some may argue that things like this have always happened and scoff at his promised return, but many don't deny that it's different now as they describe these things as " historic, or unprecedented", and the fact that these things are a composite string of events occurring simultaneously, combined with evident fulfillment of prophecies written in the bible thousands of years in advance, it makes me ask why do people still deny Gods word? But then I remember the words " for since the creation of the world Gods invisible qualities -- his eternal power and divine nature-- have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." Romans 1:20. It is saddening that even when God makes himself known whether through grace and mercy or through judgement and plague, that people could still defy him and reject him. The first time I read the book of Revelation and read of all of the judgements to come during the tribulation, when I got to the part where even after so many judgements upon those who oppose God, that they would still curse God rather than repent, very sad. Back to this virus, and the many other diseases currently claiming so many lives around the world along with every other catastrophe, I pray for unbelievers to see these things as a wake up call to accept Jesus invitation to come to him. For believers, when we see these tragic things occurring. it's good to remember Jesus words to us...." When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near" Luke 21:28.
 
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