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yeshua'sbride

♥ Standing with Israel
Just read your post. I need to let it all sink in before I can even consider replying. I can say this, there's no "fix" or "advice" I can offer you. That would just cheapen the outpouring of your heart heart here.

What else I can say is that something about you and how you express yourself compels me to simply say that I love who you are, and when the Lord allows, I can't wait to meet you in person, look you in the eyes, to see similar life experiences reflected back and give you a big manly hug.

I'm off to work now. You gave me a LOT to mull over :bighug
It’s a beautiful thing to watch the Lord love people through you, my brother. :bighug
 

stillwaiting

Well-Known Member
So I saw a Trump's 'defeat' thread here just awhile (weeks) back.

Can anyone explain to me how a ominpotent ominisicent god can lose an election even when He allegedly has the votes??

Can I trust this god with my salvation??

Not sure why my new avatar was moneky'd with? Doesn't matter.

I got messes to go figure out how to clean up.

Peace.
 

GEOINTAnalyst

Well-Known Member
So I saw a Trump's 'defeat' thread here just awhile (weeks) back.

Can anyone explain to me how a ominpotent ominisicent god can lose an election even when He allegedly has the votes??
In the book of Hosea 8:4 we find these words - They have set up kings, but not by me; they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off.
In 1 Samuel 8 an amazing event is described that illustrates how God establishes or appoints rulers over nations. In 1 Samuel 8:1-7 we are told that the nation of Israel had rejected God as their king. Verse 7 summarizes Israel’s request. As in the case of the USA where God is being rejected on a daily basis
The LORD said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in regard to all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being king over them.” 1 Samuel 8:7 (NASB)
Consequently, God allowed Israel to have their own king. Verses 10-18 record what God told Samuel to communicate to Israel that they would experience with their new king. The entire description is negative and in verse 18 we read this,
Then you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, but the LORD will not answer you in that day. 1 Samuel 8:18 (NASB)

As in the case of the USA where God is being rejected on a daily basis - the USA is turning it's back on God so God is turning His back toward us
 

stillwaiting

Well-Known Member
Its not the same. In your example God's will was done. He let the people choose (a human king versus Him... an even more different scenario) and that's exactly what they got.

So in 2020 then allegedly either He wanted Trump elected, but he wasn't or he wanted the people's will done (supposedly the same) which also wasn't done.

My point has always been from this beginning that this outcome was God's will. Not stolen by some hacks.

So during the Trump adminstration were we not turning our back on God, but since Biden was elected we are??

I'm confused and I give up. Thanks for trying to help guys.

Sorry if my other comments were too terse Experion. It was a quickie in the middle of a 5 or 6 hours reply. I tried to edit it, but learned of the 10 minute rule.

This really was more about having a fleshly king (the apparent desire of today still!) than God Himself. Or God's choice. Which is Biden. Possibly Harris. For this 3rd wave.
 

stillwaiting

Well-Known Member
Just read your post. I need to let it all sink in before I can even consider replying. I can say this, there's no "fix" or "advice" I can offer you. That would just cheapen the outpouring of your heart heart here.

What else I can say is that something about you and how you express yourself compels me to simply say that I love who you are, and when the Lord allows, I can't wait to meet you in person, look you in the eyes, to see similar life experiences reflected back and give you a big manly hug.

I'm off to work now. You gave me a LOT to mull over :bighug

I really do apprecite the other advice. The OP stuff. Thanks again.
 

stillwaiting

Well-Known Member
The reason that I feel that I must be relentless on this concept is because I believe people are setting themselves up for an even greater disppointment than the November election turned out to be.

There was a recent Trump ralley I caught a blip of and it looked like good old MAGA days. Saw a poll saying that Trump is 70% as the preferred candidate in 2024. So it seems people are believing that with enough voting legislation to prevent this alleged mass fraud that this time the people's will will be realized in the midterms.

But we still have to reconcile (or accept) that 1 of 3 things happened.

1. Trump was God's Guy and somehow God lost the election even though He got enough people out to the polls that voted correctly.
2. God deferred the choice to the people and the people (again allegedly) cast enough votes, but somehow evil forces stole the election.
3. God's will was for Biden win. Wouldn't this qualify as God turning His back on this Country?!

Not only do I have a problem with God losing an election due to a few rouge election workers in a few key locations, but even more so I do not have a problem believing that a Biden/Harris ticket got more votes than Trump. Everyone agrees that the culture is evil. Though for some befuddling reason most people seem to think that these same people would vote for Trump and not Biden??

Do we think that there are more (I hesitate to say evil) unbelieving godless people than there are good people? If the turn out rates were similar than the majority of the types of people in society would elect the president. Right?

However, if anything, the Left had superior turn out. Part of the way that social media and Big Tech influenced this election was by reassuring enough Republicans that it would be a landslide so I think in effect suppressed voting that way. But this still goes back to those shows about how this is going on.

One huge thing that went on for the last two years was every late night talk shows spent most of the evening Trump hating. See there is supposed to this equal time thing for politics. Which like so many other things the internet probably doesn't have the same rules as television. Which TV gets around this by inviting politicians and outspoken celebs, athletes and all the rest and then they talk politics most of the night. Night after night.

I don't have cable but a new channel to me is NBCLX. I am reclusive and rarely get around anybody 30 or younger, but watching this channel tells me how engaged and actives the young people are. They get out, and got out, and voted. I know the Right is motivated and after Obama heading toward Hillary were probably never more motivated!

But as a result of the 2016 election the Left became super motivated and have maintained that vigor. So to me even secular reasons make sense that Biden got elected by getting more votes. I've seen some of the stuff and listened to a number of arguments. But I guess in the end whoever is pulling strings pulled them successfully. I cannot see God, if He chose to completely excuse Himself and let the people's will be the decider and they actually did choose Trump then He would not let that result be stolen. He is omnipotent. He is Just. Would His Nature even allow for this?

Unless He in His sovereignty declared "I will let you (the people) choose and whoever you choose I will see that the other guy is elected." I don't think so.

And if such a thing could occur then there is no guarantee it does not repeat in the midterms.

I just skimmed another thread from last week. Its the 'we know the election was stolen'. I do understand this is the vastly predominate thought here. I know I am tugging on Superman's cape.

To me God choosing Biden in order to continue a downward path seems most logical actually. And lets face it though Trump did put forth many good, even Godly, principle and policies and have such influence, he was more than a little decisive. Which fits a pattern extending back long before even Obama or arguable Bush W. Since we're near 50/50 in this country and have been for a long time either party is going to divide the country. Especially since we've got into this Executive Order nightmare. Which did not start with Trump. But it allows each subsequent president to come in and clean house on actually a ton of stuff. Immediately shifting things around and making long term agreements with other countries much more difficult.

We're doing the political Hokey Pokey. Left foot in, Left foot out, Right foot in...

So the Lord dealt with me. I am trying to tell people about this so they don't get really blindsided and have a crisis of faith, but since that Falling Away must come am I fighting God. Like I accuse (suggest) people of doing by not accepting the election results? If these things must come then why even bother? I wonder what harm to let people think it was stolen. Which I definitely believe stuff was going on. Just not enough to flip an election that should have been insured by God's omnipotence. Even if He deferred to the people. Anything else is evil defeating Good.

The New Testament tells us to pray for leaders because God put them there.

I feel awful when I suggest a somewhat feeble Biden could be replaced by Harris before it is all over. I am not trying to create that or prevent it. Just that things are the way that they are and it would be quite prudent to be prepared.

I try to look at thing from the end back to the beginning. Is there inflation? Is it transitory? Does the Bible say that people will have to work all day just for enough food to live off of?? How far off in the future is that point likely to be? Will inflation settle down only to flare up at some point overnight? Maybe. More likely we are beginning down a path of inflation that will simply get worse over time.

No tea leaves were harmed in the making of that prediction. I can logically expect nothing else as I see it. While I believe that I am very prepared for this this will probably make all that much difference? My relatively small digital footprint might make it interesting for awhile, but I have noo pretense (nor desire) to try to evade something coming upon the entire planet. Do I not believe God about that?

Food already bought can't go up in price. Can't be affected by supply chain issues. And for me allows me to avoid situation like exactly are upon us in the form of the Delta Plus variant. Seems that a surge is coming. So I need to be especially carefully. So I can carefully manage my physical risks. But I am hardly going to avoid anything affecting everyone.

I do worry about people getting tunnel vision about the upcoming election. How devastating that could potentially be. This is one of the beautiful things about having given up so much on this world. It just loses so much pull. And I am not referring to some super righteous floating angel thing, but its like maybe the heat or the cold doesn't bother me as much. Most others might be chilled or a little overheated but it feels fine to me.

Might as well make a bucket list of sorts. Time could well be running out.

I have a lot to say about going 'out there'. Spent a few days thinking about all this stuff. The stuff that has come over the fence into my yard in 2021 alone is most unusual. Perhaps another time? I've been looking at stuff like old projects or other items and I know that inside of any realistic prophetic timeline I am never going to mess with it. So I am staring to toss things out wholesale. Makes me feel buoyant.

Whatever is going to happen is going to happen. I am confident that God will perform His will. Corporately and personally. Things may get bad though. God is shaking things. Or allowing them to be shaken. I see it as indication of what to expect ahead.

His peace be with us.
 

JSTyler

Well-Known Member
Whatever is going to happen is going to happen. I am confident that God will perform His will. Corporately and personally. Things may get bad though. God is shaking things. Or allowing them to be shaken. I see it as indication of what to expect ahead.
Great post! I simply quoted your conclusion because it codifies the rest nicely. We're in a war for hearts and minds with the eternal destination of souls as the prize. I'm glad we're on the same side of things and working for the same goal...take as many to Heaven with us, when we go.

I do believe that the election was stolen. I do believe that it was clearly God's will to allow it. I do believe that as you stated, "God is shaking things." And most importantly, I do believe that we have our work cut out for us and though it's going to hard, it's also going to be amazing to experience and not least of all, it's going to be interesting because we know who wins, we know why that matters and the race for us Christ followers is near about completed.

Let's keep talking...this is a lot fun.
 

stillwaiting

Well-Known Member
Just to be crystal clear. Thefts, robberies and all sorts of fraud occur each day. They are NEVER God's will. He does not etch in stone "Thou shall not steal" and then later on says "go ahead. In fact, I WANT you to do it. It is my will."

If God wanted Joe Biden president then he would be president. Like he is. God doesn't need thugs to steal elections for Him. What a blasphemous assault on His character.

What is to prevent it from being God's will that the next election isn't stolen as well?? Sand.

Do you have ANY credible proof that the election was stolen?

Ask yourself why you believe this? Is it because if a crime occurred then one might seek, hope for or even expect a remedy? A reversal. That is what I have come to think is why people cling to this hanging thread. There is some remote hope that 'justice will be served' but in order for a reversal to take place then a crime or wrong had to have occurred. Then we would have just standing to petition God. You're stuck in the denial and bargaining phase.

The next problem is that if you ever come to accept and admit the election wasn't stolen then what do you do with January 6th?

The two rules for following this stuff.
1. God is sovereign. His will, not ours. I would add 'His way, not ours'.
2. Start from the end and work back to the beginning.

WADR, most folks seem to have decided on the outcome that God probably, certainly, must have actually wanted and so then contort even His character and honor to fit this delusion. Likely because the alternative is simply too unbearable. I'm sorry about that.

This hasn't been fun for me since you started ordering another Man's servant around.
 

JSTyler

Well-Known Member
Just to be crystal clear. Thefts, robberies and all sorts of fraud occur each day. They are NEVER God's will. He does not etch in stone "Thou shall not steal" and then later on says "go ahead. In fact, I WANT you to do it. It is my will."

If God wanted Joe Biden president then he would be president. Like he is. God doesn't need thugs to steal elections for Him. What a blasphemous assault on His character.

What is to prevent it from being God's will that the next election isn't stolen as well?? Sand.

Do you have ANY credible proof that the election was stolen?

Ask yourself why you believe this? Is it because if a crime occurred then one might seek, hope for or even expect a remedy? A reversal. That is what I have come to think is why people cling to this hanging thread. There is some remote hope that 'justice will be served' but in order for a reversal to take place then a crime or wrong had to have occurred. Then we would have just standing to petition God. You're stuck in the denial and bargaining phase.

The next problem is that if you ever come to accept and admit the election wasn't stolen then what do you do with January 6th?

The two rules for following this stuff.
1. God is sovereign. His will, not ours. I would add 'His way, not ours'.
2. Start from the end and work back to the beginning.

WADR, most folks seem to have decided on the outcome that God probably, certainly, must have actually wanted and so then contort even His character and honor to fit this delusion. Likely because the alternative is simply too unbearable. I'm sorry about that.

This hasn't been fun for me since you started ordering another Man's servant around.
I don't have a gentle reply for this post, nor for your previous so I'm going to quietly bow out of this conversation.

Hang in there.
 

GEOINTAnalyst

Well-Known Member
So during the Trump administration were we not turning our back on God, but since Biden was elected we are??
I believe the USA has been turning it's back on God for many years now (deffinately since the mid 1960s I would say), and that the USA is reaping of what has been sowed. Probably back to 1946 when the Supreme Court forced in the separation of Church and State by misinterpreting the Thomas Jefferson letter to the Danbury Connecticut Baptist Association
 

GEOINTAnalyst

Well-Known Member
But we still have to reconcile (or accept) that 1 of 3 things happened.

1. Trump was God's Guy and somehow God lost the election even though He got enough people out to the polls that voted correctly.
2. God deferred the choice to the people and the people (again allegedly) cast enough votes, but somehow evil forces stole the election.
3. God's will was for Biden win. Wouldn't this qualify as God turning His back on this Country?!
I would add
4) God allowed this to happen to show how depraved our election system is and the associated sin that comes with it.

There will not be any repentance on the part of those who committed this deception against the people even if everything comes out, because of their hardness of their heart. Mankind was deceived by this world's god (Satan) from the beginning regarding what's good and evil; because Satan convinced man not to believe in what God tells him in His Commandments. Mankind as a whole has been "deciding for himself" what is evil and what is good.

And man has decided that what God calls good is evil... and what God calls evil is good. This is nothing new; This wicked, deceptive train of thought has not been limited to the time of the end, but throughout the history of the world. It only gets worse as the end approaches.

It's called SIN! to put it plainly. Disobedience to God's Law. Rebellion. Lawlessness. Unrighteousness. Faithlessness. Unbelief, Homosexuality and whatever else is contrary to God's word - see Romans 1

Prov 29:18 Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he (KJV). - This can also mean, “The people are unrestrained.” In America we are unrestrained. We champion wrong, calling it right, while legislating Evil and calling it Good. Everyone does what is right in his or her eyes—all at the expense of the nation’s corporate soul. So if the election was kept within the law what would have the results have been? IMHO God allowed this to happen to expose the Sin that was outside the law and those who speak out against the New Morality, which is nothing more than the old immorality revised and given a modern name like Progressive or Liberal, are vilified, shouted down, and called “haters, racists, bigots, uncaring" and whatever vile things they can think of. Because of this, few are willing speak out in opposition to political correctness. To maintain the Biblical values of past generations is no longer viewed as archaic. Instead, it is becoming criminalized, and those who adhere to its tenets have been marginalized as citizens. These types of people cannot or will not debate the issues, they just shove their agenda down your throat and you are to drink it and be happy.
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
Something to think about in regards to this thread is that God's very first and supreme priority is saved souls. As I've watched republicans in various places or spoken with them, I've seen quite a few who were not saved and putting all of their hope in Trump as a type of savior (and let me be clear, I say this respectfully, appreciating his hard work and care for America). I wonder, if this lost election was partly (among other things) for a short term difficulty to point many to the long term, even better, Jesus Christ the Messiah?

It is often in the life of an unbeliever that God is drawing to Christ, that those things the unbeliever has placed their hope in disintegrates in order for them to finally turn to the One who is a more sure foundation. Eternally.

I think Trump has been very instrumental in some ways. When he was elected, this shook the Democratic world. Hopes were dashed and worlds crumbled. But, I do know that in the desperation of finding hope somewhere, some souls who were politically aligned as Democrat, finally looked to the Lord Jesus for hope and were saved.

Perhaps the pendulum has been allowed to swing the other way for the same effect for those who are Republicans and are also needing to find ultimate hope and salvation in Jesus Christ, rather than a man. For some Republicans in the last election, hopes were dashed and worlds crumbled, may those who don't know Christ yet do so now through repentance and faith in Him.

And, may all who are in Christ, no matter their political persuasion, draw closer to God, be in His Word and follow Christ's great commission: To preach the Gospel in all the world.

In a time that seems to be ever drawing to a close and becoming shorter, perhaps these things may have been allowed to much more quickly prompt souls to repent and put their faith in Jesus Christ before it's too late. If that's the case, even though there are some painful things happening, if it serves to bring salvation to souls before time is up, well, then it's worth it.

Kind of like the pain and suffering our Messiah endured. He thought it was worth it, for us and willingly endured the cross for our salvation. We may need to willing endure some tough things for the sake of other's who God is drawing to Christ as well.
 
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