Church keeps talking about money

[daygo]

Agree! Like how many sermons on Hell, and the urgency of all saints to preach Jesus to the lost so they don't go there, have any of us heard lately? It's like the Church in general has lost it's love n fervor that the early church seemed to have in spades.

I read somewhere that a percentage of ppl who claim Christ don't even believe in Hell.

Now I love a comical, fluffy sermon too...but maybe on a Christian comedy show...not in church so much.

Jesus told Peter to FEED my sheep...not junk food...but such that will grow them up....and growing can include stretching and pain (of conviction or etc)

It is sad to me that the church in general has watered down the Word. Sure, maybe because of it Christians gain wealth, aren't persecuted or thrown into prison, etc. But is this cushy, safe life the kind that even our Lord and Savior lived? Nada. They killed Him for His words and actions. The disciples...beaten, imprisoned (they experienced miracles there), etc.

Seems to me if the world doesn't hate the church then the church is compromised. Not that I desire martyrdom, etc. But honestly, would I have faith to believe that God would open my prison cell doors if I was thrown in there for sharing the gospel?

Perhaps a reason why the modern church doesn't see many miracles is that we aren't in faith preaching the Gospel accurately. God says the world will hate us.

The modern day church, in general, is no different to me than the cult I grew up in. Having a "form" of godliness but denying it's power. We are told that the world will hate us n vice versa (hate wickedness)... anyone who loves the world does not have the Love of God within them.

I pray that churches get back to the basics. Jesus, the Word, sorrow for sin bc it harms our relationship with God.... passion for His will...even if it makes the world abhor the church

It's all about community jojo and showing love and not forgetting tithing.

 

[mattfivefour]

Agree! Like how many sermons on Hell, and the urgency of all saints to preach Jesus to the lost so they don't go there, have any of us heard lately? It's like the Church in general has lost it's love n fervor that the early church seemed to have in spades.

I read somewhere that a percentage of ppl who claim Christ don't even believe in Hell.

Now I love a comical, fluffy sermon too...but maybe on a Christian comedy show...not in church so much.

Jesus told Peter to FEED my sheep...not junk food...but such that will grow them up....and growing can include stretching and pain (of conviction or etc)

It is sad to me that the church in general has watered down the Word. Sure, maybe because of it Christians gain wealth, aren't persecuted or thrown into prison, etc. But is this cushy, safe life the kind that even our Lord and Savior lived? Nada. They killed Him for His words and actions. The disciples...beaten, imprisoned (they experienced miracles there), etc.

Seems to me if the world doesn't hate the church then the church is compromised. Not that I desire martyrdom, etc. But honestly, would I have faith to believe that God would open my prison cell doors if I was thrown in there for sharing the gospel?

Perhaps a reason why the modern church doesn't see many miracles is that we aren't in faith preaching the Gospel accurately. God says the world will hate us.

The modern day church, in general, is no different to me than the cult I grew up in. Having a "form" of godliness but denying it's power. We are told that the world will hate us n vice versa (hate wickedness)... anyone who loves the world does not have the Love of God within them.

I pray that churches get back to the basics. Jesus, the Word, sorrow for sin bc it harms our relationship with God.... passion for His will...even if it makes the world abhor the church

May I suggest that while the primary purpose of the Church --specifically the individual members that make up the Church universal-- is to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the lost, the primary purpose of the pastor in the pulpit is not to proclaim the Gospel to the church members but instead to do all he can "for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love." (Ephesians 4:12-16)

That, I suggest, is my main purpose in church and I believe it should be every pastor's main purpose. Yes, an invitation for salvation should be given each service, as should an altar call for those with whom the Holy Spirit is dealing as a result of the sermon; but repetitive sermons on salvation to the church body are a waste of valuable time, imo.

 

[Pat]

May I suggest that while the primary purpose of the Church --specifically the individual members that make up the Church universal-- is to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the lost, the primary purpose of the pastor in the pulpit is not to proclaim the Gospel to the church members but instead to go all he can "for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love." (Ephesians 4:12-16)

That, I suggest, is my main purpose in church and I believe it should be every pastor's main purpose. Yes, an invitation for salvation should be given each service, as should an altar call for those with whom the Holy Spirit is dealing as a result of the sermon; but repetitive sermons on salvation to the church body are a waste of valuable time, imo.

Amen brother!

 

[Jojo4124]

May I suggest that while the primary purpose of the Church --specifically the individual members that make up the Church universal-- is to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the lost, the primary purpose of the pastor in the pulpit is not to proclaim the Gospel to the church members but instead to go all he can "for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love." (Ephesians 4:12-16)

That, I suggest, is my main purpose in church and I believe it should be every pastor's main purpose. Yes, an invitation for salvation should be given each service, as should an altar call for those with whom the Holy Spirit is dealing as a result of the sermon; but repetitive sermons on salvation to the church body are a waste of valuable time, imo.

Yes, a pastor's job is to equip the saints for spreading the gospel. My church experiences caused me pain more than equipping. Some sermons are light and funny with zero potential to assist spiritual growth

 

[Jojo4124]

It's all about community jojo and showing love and not forgetting tithing.

I agree. But if Christian community isn't taught to, or endeavors to, live by and obey the Word, to me it seems no different than a society community. I'd rather meet a friend one on one who I can fellowship with. Where 2 or more are gathered...

Yes love is important, love the way God tells us n shows us to. Enabling sin by not correcting it for example isn't love.

God corrects us because He loves us. He has instructed the church on humbly correcting, admonishing, and encouraging eachother. Maybe it is just the denominations I was in, but I never saw a pastor kick out couples claiming Christ but living in fornication (had children) and wouldn't marry. The Bible says not even to eat with such as these. And to kick them out of the church so maybe they'll repent n be restored to the body. I'll have to look it up but I think the Bible says to hand them over to Satan...sounds harsh and maybe that's why the modern church refuses to obey it.

I mean, I would feel "judgemental ' if I chose to obey the Word where it says to not even eat with ppl who call themselves Christ followers who choose to live in unrepentant of sin. But the Bible says this. Of course I mean that this would be done in humble kindness...getting rid of logs in my eye first...but Jesus said after removing your log...action. help your brother remove the speck, not ignore that he has one.

Jesus had a lot to say about churches embracing sin in Revelation. God says in OT He will heal our land if HIS people pray, seek Him and repent (not apologize but turn away from sin)

Anyways, love and it's definition have been perverted in society. It's the Church's job to exemplify the real love of God.

For me, I feel God leads me to do that in a non church setting.

I really hope not to offend anyone ever! Please forgive me if I seem...unloving or jaded. When I accepted Jesus, I was excited to be in a Church that said it followed the Bible. We aren't to judge but we ARE to compare to the Word to see if a Christian really is one, or are they a masquerading wolf? The Bible says these things. I sin and am not perfect as no one is. But I have sought a church that doesn't ignore the hard verses. It's these that cause growth in my opinion.

Tithes are God's...to be given where He leads, just my opinion. There are many workers for the Kingdom to support...I can't give God's money to anyone who wants to use it to pay off a building loan. I don't see Christians in the Bible like Paul talking about funding a building to meet in.

Ty for listening. PLEASE correct where I am wrong...I am still learning!!!

 

[Jojo4124]

This is easy one to answer---The message of Scripture on borrowing is quite clear: Do not do it. God commands Christians to keep out of debt altogether. "Owe no man anything, but to love one another" (Romans 13:8). Strong's Exhaustive Concordance amplifies the message behind these words: "Owe to no one, no not anything, nothing at all."

The word Usury is used 24 times in the KJV. The Hebrew word for “usury” is “neshek,” meaning literally “a bite,” because of its painfulness to the debtor. The word “usury” means “interest”. In the O.T. you were not to charge your Jewish brother interest. Usury was considered unjust gain. In Psa 15:1-5 David ask the “LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? The last quality he mentions in Psa 15:5 He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.

The borrower is servant to the lender (Proverbs 22:7). God intends for followers of Christ to be free from earthly entanglements to serve Him. No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier" (II Timothy 2:4). The very nature of borrowing is entanglement. The Hebrew words for borrowing are “abat”, to entangle, and “lavah”, to twine, to take an obligation, to unit with.

God has promised to provide for are needs "But my God shall supply all your needs according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.” (Philippians 4:19). When Christians borrow, they are saying to the world, "God is not taking care of my needs, so I have to make up for the difference with a loan.

Ty for this,
I appreciate the Word!

 

[Jojo4124]

May I suggest that while the primary purpose of the Church --specifically the individual members that make up the Church universal-- is to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the lost, the primary purpose of the pastor in the pulpit is not to proclaim the Gospel to the church members but instead to go all he can "for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love." (Ephesians 4:12-16)

That, I suggest, is my main purpose in church and I believe it should be every pastor's main purpose. Yes, an invitation for salvation should be given each service, as should an altar call for those with whom the Holy Spirit is dealing as a result of the sermon; but repetitive sermons on salvation to the church body are a waste of valuable time, imo.

TY!

 

[lamonte]

A few weeks ago they had someone stand up from an organization that gives churches loans and financial help (on a Sunday morning service) and talk about investing money into that organization (that our church used) to help finance churches.

I thought the question was on finances. Here are some of my thoughts.

We should be like Berea Acts 17 The scriptures should have the final say not the pastors or any teacher of the Scriptures.

Anyone who has ever had a relationship with Jesus Christ must ask, "Since when has Jesus become dependent on world business methods and technology to promote the gospel of the kingdom and grow His Church?" Is this the rock He told Peter that He would build His church on? Where once the Lord added to the Church daily as many as should be saved, now we see a church growing itself by appealing to the world's sense of taste. Where once the Spirit of God drew people, now people are enticed with sensationalism and entertainment.

Perhaps a more telling question might be, "Are we willing to live on bread in order to preach the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ?" Did Jesus pay the price and live in poverty so that the apostles and believers that followed didn't have to? Did they live lives of ease and luxury while preaching the about the kingdoms of God? Did they build great institutions, naming great churches, universities, and seminaries after themselves as is the practice today?

Paul's words: 1Co 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. 10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honorable, but we are despised. 11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwelling place; 12 And labor, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: 13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

These men served the kingdom of God and cared nothing for worldly gain. They supported themselves and often went without. They had no homes of their own, much less any $600,000 dollar house. They heeded Jesus' words and did not seek to find their lives. They had tasted the heavenly gift and found it good. Their only legacy was to live and die just as their Forerunner, the very Son of God, promoting the eternal kingdom that comes without outward observation. They did not consider their service to be a vocation or livelihood but were witnesses, appointed unto death. It was not a living but a dying; a life laid down and never an excuse to gather wealth.

 

[Lastcall]

This is easy one to answer---The message of Scripture on borrowing is quite clear: Do not do it. God commands Christians to keep out of debt altogether. "Owe no man anything, but to love one another" (Romans 13:8). Strong's Exhaustive Concordance amplifies the message behind these words: "Owe to no one, no not anything, nothing at all."

The word Usury is used 24 times in the KJV. The Hebrew word for “usury” is “neshek,” meaning literally “a bite,” because of its painfulness to the debtor. The word “usury” means “interest”. In the O.T. you were not to charge your Jewish brother interest. Usury was considered unjust gain. In Psa 15:1-5 David ask the “LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? The last quality he mentions in Psa 15:5 He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.

The borrower is servant to the lender (Proverbs 22:7). God intends for followers of Christ to be free from earthly entanglements to serve Him. No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier" (II Timothy 2:4). The very nature of borrowing is entanglement. The Hebrew words for borrowing are “abat”, to entangle, and “lavah”, to twine, to take an obligation, to unit with.

God has promised to provide for are needs "But my God shall supply all your needs according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.” (Philippians 4:19). When Christians borrow, they are saying to the world, "God is not taking care of my needs, so I have to make up for the difference with a loan.

Do you believe its sinful for a Christian family to take a mortgage on a home?

 

[Footsteps]

Inviting you to invest in an organization seems out of place for a church, unless the pastor means invest in as in give donations to.

Seems the pastor's works of giving will be some of his works that burn up when he's before Jesus... He should keep that to himself.

When money becomes more important than it should be for a church it often leads to the downfall of that church. I've seen that happen a few times over the course of my life.

When I was a young man when the church asked for money and then more, and then more I tended to be in the line of folks who kept opening up their wallet to the requests. Now that I'm old and have seen the destruction of churches that ask their members for more and more and more, I'm more likely to close my wallet to that church.

I concur about two red flags above:

1. Revealing your own giving (Let not your left hand know what the right hand is doing).
2. Allowing a solicitation for another organization. A church should have its own missions.

 

[lamonte]

Do you believe its sinful for a Christian family to take a mortgage on a home?

I wouldn’t say that debt is Sin, but it’s never wise.

"The wicked borrow and do not repay, but the righteous give generously." Psalm 37:21 "I was young and now I am old, yet I have never seen the righteous forsaken or their children begging bread. They are always generous and lend freely; their children will be blessed." Psalm 37:25-26

For I have seen many fall into the trap of Debt and think that they can walk away unscathed. What we think affects what we do. That is why it is so very important that we are in the Word of God daily. Phil 2:5 Lets this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus. There is also 1 Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. Jesus tell us to follow in His steps 1 Pet 2:21.

The world teaches that it is OK to go into debt. The Bible teaches, “Owe no man any thing.” The world teaches its OK to file bankruptcy, it is a word now that Christians are not ashamed to utter. Along with nonchristians we have bought into this world's lies that we must have what we want when we want it. No restraint whatsoever. Even though we may not believe that when we are charging and borrowing, it is so when we no longer consider paying it back. Today we have Christians declaring bankruptcy while their children are still involved in organized sports, or while they take vacations, or while they have private music lessons, or while they send their children to camp or private schools, or while they continue to eat out, or while they continue to buy what they think they need, or while they pay to have their cars washed, or while they buy whatever they desire at the grocery store, or while they make many long distant phone calls, or while they operate two vehicles, and/or while they keep everything they "own" without a thought of paying back the debt.

Shame on Pastor’s or teachers who teach that debt is OK

 

[Footsteps]

Is it OK for a church to have a mortgage?

 

[DWB]

This is the number one reason I seldom set foot in a church any longer. It always seems like the main mission is to make money instead of saving souls.

 

[Matthew6:33]

but repetitive sermons on salvation to the church body are a waste of valuable time, imo.

This seems to have become another red flag to me that something isn't right. The pastors at churches in my past would endlessly preach on salvation and have alter calls every week yet I always felt undernourished in the Word. Maybe they brought in a lot of baby christians (hopefully?) but they were not equipping them for when life gets hard and you have trials that push your faith. I saw many people fall after time.

I have always thought it was better for the pastor to focus on teaching the Word, doctrine, prophecy, and God's holiness. The unsaved will hear and if their hearts are open they will naturally seek salvation. Knock and the door will be opened.

Salvation is the first step but one needs to move onto sanctification eventually.

 

[Lastcall]

I wouldn’t say that debt is Sin, but it’s never wise.

"The wicked borrow and do not repay, but the righteous give generously." Psalm 37:21 "I was young and now I am old, yet I have never seen the righteous forsaken or their children begging bread. They are always generous and lend freely; their children will be blessed." Psalm 37:25-26

For I have seen many fall into the trap of Debt and think that they can walk away unscathed. What we think affects what we do. That is why it is so very important that we are in the Word of God daily. Phil 2:5 Lets this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus. There is also 1 Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. Jesus tell us to follow in His steps 1 Pet 2:21.

The world teaches that it is OK to go into debt. The Bible teaches, “Owe no man any thing.” The world teaches its OK to file bankruptcy, it is a word now that Christians are not ashamed to utter. Along with nonchristians we have bought into this world's lies that we must have what we want when we want it. No restraint whatsoever. Even though we may not believe that when we are charging and borrowing, it is so when we no longer consider paying it back. Today we have Christians declaring bankruptcy while their children are still involved in organized sports, or while they take vacations, or while they have private music lessons, or while they send their children to camp or private schools, or while they continue to eat out, or while they continue to buy what they think they need, or while they pay to have their cars washed, or while they buy whatever they desire at the grocery store, or while they make many long distant phone calls, or while they operate two vehicles, and/or while they keep everything they "own" without a thought of paying back the debt.

Shame on Pastor’s or teachers who teach that debt is OK

Taking on debt that one has no way of repaying, clearly that would be wrong, and sinful.

Taking on manageable debt, such as a mortgage is what most have to due in order to live under a roof. Even those who rent a place to live, are still taking on a debt they owe every month.

We have one credit card, and each month we charge a high total, which makes it easier than always paying in cash. At the end of every month, we pay the card off so there is a zero balance owed, so is that wrong? Sinful?

 

[Footsteps]

Taking on debt that one has no way of repaying, clearly that would be wrong, and sinful.

Taking on manageable debt, such as a mortgage is what most have to due in order to live under a roof. Even those who rent a place to live, are still taking on a debt they owe every month.

We have one credit card, and each month we charge a high total, which makes it easier than always paying in cash. At the end of every month, we pay the card off so there is a zero balance owed, so is that wrong? Sinful?

No. It’s good management.

 

[Pat]

Taking on debt that one has no way of repaying, clearly that would be wrong, and sinful.

Taking on manageable debt, such as a mortgage is what most have to due in order to live under a roof. Even those who rent a place to live, are still taking on a debt they owe every month.

We have one credit card, and each month we charge a high total, which makes it easier than always paying in cash. At the end of every month, we pay the card off so there is a zero balance owed, so is that wrong? Sinful?

No. Only if the Lord tells you not to. I believe Romans 14 addresses some of this issue and concludes with "...whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

 

[Lastcall]

I thought the question was on finances. Here are some of my thoughts.

We should be like Berea Acts 17 The scriptures should have the final say not the pastors or any teacher of the Scriptures.

Anyone who has ever had a relationship with Jesus Christ must ask, "Since when has Jesus become dependent on world business methods and technology to promote the gospel of the kingdom and grow His Church?" Is this the rock He told Peter that He would build His church on? Where once the Lord added to the Church daily as many as should be saved, now we see a church growing itself by appealing to the world's sense of taste. Where once the Spirit of God drew people, now people are enticed with sensationalism and entertainment.

Perhaps a more telling question might be, "Are we willing to live on bread in order to preach the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ?" Did Jesus pay the price and live in poverty so that the apostles and believers that followed didn't have to? Did they live lives of ease and luxury while preaching the about the kingdoms of God? Did they build great institutions, naming great churches, universities, and seminaries after themselves as is the practice today?

Paul's words: 1Co 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. 10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honorable, but we are despised. 11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwelling place; 12 And labor, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: 13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

These men served the kingdom of God and cared nothing for worldly gain. They supported themselves and often went without. They had no homes of their own, much less any $600,000 dollar house. They heeded Jesus' words and did not seek to find their lives. They had tasted the heavenly gift and found it good. Their only legacy was to live and die just as their Forerunner, the very Son of God, promoting the eternal kingdom that comes without outward observation. They did not consider their service to be a vocation or livelihood but were witnesses, appointed unto death. It was not a living but a dying; a life laid down and never an excuse to gather wealth.

It seems you are against anyone having any wealth, or extras in life.

600,000 dollar home may seem extravagant in some states, others, average price.

You can have a nice home, and still give generously and promote His Word. One does not have to be poor to do so.

Since the OP was about church's repeatably asking for money, and taking on debt, should a Pastor receive a salary?

 

[Tall Timbers]

I wouldn’t say that debt is Sin, but it’s never wise.

When I was in the military and was ready to purchase my first house, I learned that, at the time I had to show that I had a mortgage or rental payment that matched or was higher than what I was eligible to receive in compensation for housing, which was part of the pay package. So, instead of paying cash for the house I took out a 15 year loan and ensured that I'd receive the highest amount of housing related pay offered to my pay grade. If I had paid cash I would have received nothing for housing. Was that wise or foolish?

I paid off that loan after I established my pay and then a couple years later I got married to another military member. We were both eligible for a housing allowance. I went to bank after bank until I found one that was willing to give me a 5 year 50K loan that would allow the newly married couple to get their full housing allowances. The bank charged me a higher than market interest rate because of the uniqueness of the loan, but it didn't really matter as it got paid off in months. Wise or foolish?

I have tried to be debt free my entire life except where it makes sense. In the above two cases, however, I had no problem taking out a loan that was very much in my/our interests. I also use credit cards for 99.9% of my purchases. Not only do I get money back on my purchases, anywhere from 1 to 5%, but the money borrowed is interest free because I pay the cards off in full every month. Meanwhile, theoretically anyways, my savings is earning interest for me. Wise or foolish?

 

[Footsteps]

When I was in the military and was ready to purchase my first house, I learned that, at the time I had to show that I had a mortgage or rental payment that matched or was higher than what I was eligible to receive in compensation for housing, which was part of the pay package. So, instead of paying cash for the house I took out a 15 year loan and ensured that I'd receive the highest amount of housing related pay offered to my pay grade. If I had paid cash I would have received nothing for housing. Was that wise or foolish?

I paid off that loan after I established my pay and then a couple years later I got married to another military member. We were both eligible for a housing allowance. I went to bank after bank until I found one that was willing to give me a 5 year 50K loan that would allow the newly married couple to get their full housing allowances. The bank charged me a higher than market interest rate because of the uniqueness of the loan, but it didn't really matter as it got paid off in months. Wise or foolish?

I have tried to be debt free my entire life except where it makes sense. In the above two cases, however, I had no problem taking out a loan that was very much in my/our interests. I also use credit cards for 99.9% of my purchases. Not only do I get money back on my purchases, anywhere from 1 to 5%, but the money borrowed is interest free because I pay the cards off in full every month. Meanwhile, theoretically anyways, my savings is earning interest for me. Wise or foolish?

You have just summarized more knowledge of finance than the Fed, the Treasury Secretary, the entire current administration, and the entire Obama administration. During the Obama administration, subprime mortgages were created for applicants with bad credit. Many of the approved borrowers had NO JOB. This contributed heavily to a real estate crash which birthed a total economic collapse. The private insurers created to reimburse losses did not have the funds to pay, leading to ridiculous Federal borrowing to keep the global economy running. Huge financial services firms like Lehman Brothers went bankrupt.
Borrowing with no intent to repay: sin.
Borrowing with no ability to repay: routine Federal policy.