Church keeps talking about money

Matthew6:33

Withstand in the evil day. Eph 6:13
2 years ago my church was much smaller, never talked about money, and preached straight from the Bible. I remember being refreshed by large portions of the sermons being read directly from the Word. Now things seem different. The church is growing LARGE, has a new BIG worship center (financed), and seems to talk about money and tithing a lot more while always mentioning how "generous" our church is. It is starting to set off red flags for me...

For at least the past 4 services my church has been asking/talking about money. A few weeks ago they had someone stand up from an organization that gives churches loans and financial help (on a Sunday morning service) and talk about investing money into that organization (that our church used) to help finance churches. The pastor even stated this week and last week that him and his wife are giving 20% additional "on top of their tithe" now to support missions.

What makes matters worse is that the church is growing a lot and I feel like this is not a responsible thing to be preaching to new believers over and over again. I know for a fact that if some of my relatives happened to come with us to church (they have not in a long time), they would comment and be very turned off by the constant "money talk." I imagine this to be the case with baby Christians as well.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem giving to the Church and we do, it's just something seems different now and my wife and I have both noticed it separately. The first few times I brushed it off but now I can't. I hope I am just being oversensitive but I have been burned by churches with this stuff in the past (covert Hillsong takeover). Not sure what I am going to do yet but I am thinking I will be asking for some financial accountability and hopefully won't get any push-back when I ask to see their expenditures.

Any advice? Am I totally off base here? We just want to be good stewards with what God has given us.
 

JamesSuth

Well-Known Member
I think it is important to pray about such things. Whether this is right or not is probably dependent on what is in the hearts of the leaders. I've known of some great missionaries who asked for money - but always because they believed that God had asked them to ask, and this was backed by clear plans, and not wasting anything. Other greats of the faith such as George Muller never asked for money, instead only asking God and trusting Him to prompt people to give.

Are they seeking money to further God's Kingdom or to build their own? I don't mean fraud, just them wanting to be the big names of a big church and get some glory, perhaps when this is not God's call for them. I pray that God will show you what is their motives. Your concerns about it putting people off are well founded, it is something that needs to be handled sensitively.

I don't currently attend a church, but the last one I did attend (when it still had a good minister and believed the Bible), had a big problem of always asking for money. We had zero outreach, no evangelism, no service to the community, but wanted more money. When we got it we used it to buy an organ, then another, then another. Eventually we had four and no one to play it. Other times we sat round the table trying to figure out how to use the money we had (no one had any ideas at all, so it sat in the bank). Then we bought a new heating system (a fancy new 'green' one), that didn't work so we sat with both it and the old one going. Yet, still we pressed on with the fundraising. It was very wrong.

A lot of churches are drifting away from Christ. Bad theology, and / or focus on money / greed. Sadly the push for money, or even people attending, often has more to do with wordily ambition than some God - given need for the money, or interest in people benefiting from attending.

That might sound very negative, however, do pray. If there is nothing wrong, God will confirm that. But there may be a reason why both you and your wife have felt this. It might be God trying to get your attention. And if there is nothing wrong they will be glad to share detailed accounts with you. :pray that the Lord will guide you.
 

Pat

Well-Known Member
2 years ago my church was much smaller, never talked about money, and preached straight from the Bible. I remember being refreshed by large portions of the sermons being read directly from the Word. Now things seem different. The church is growing LARGE, has a new BIG worship center (financed), and seems to talk about money and tithing a lot more while always mentioning how "generous" our church is. It is starting to set off red flags for me...

For at least the past 4 services my church has been asking/talking about money. A few weeks ago they had someone stand up from an organization that gives churches loans and financial help (on a Sunday morning service) and talk about investing money into that organization (that our church used) to help finance churches. The pastor even stated this week and last week that him and his wife are giving 20% additional "on top of their tithe" now to support missions.

What makes matters worse is that the church is growing a lot and I feel like this is not a responsible thing to be preaching to new believers over and over again. I know for a fact that if some of my relatives happened to come with us to church (they have not in a long time), they would comment and be very turned off by the constant "money talk." I imagine this to be the case with baby Christians as well.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem giving to the Church and we do, it's just something seems different now and my wife and I have both noticed it separately. The first few times I brushed it off but now I can't. I hope I am just being oversensitive but I have been burned by churches with this stuff in the past (covert Hillsong takeover). Not sure what I am going to do yet but I am thinking I will be asking for some financial accountability and hopefully won't get any push-back when I ask to see their expenditures.

Any advice? Am I totally off base here? We just want to be good stewards with what God has given us.
This is both personal and corporate advice and there are many exceptions but as a general rule would serve the church well. Blessings.

Matthew 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: :4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. :6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. :7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. :8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

I have tried to keep most of my needs secret so that I know the source (my Father) when funds or needs arrive. I do let people know when I'm sick as only God heals and i covet the prayers of my brethren.

Philippians 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. :6 Be anxious for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. :7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
Praying for your church leaders...that fear or greed, etc isn't their motivation...I've seen everything from offering baskets passed around 2 or 3 times to fleece the flock, guilt laden sermons to batter money out of saints, and even one church got ppl to take out home equity loans to give to pay off the church debt (not surprisingly the church never paid ppl back as promised)

Where in Scripture are ppl burdened, even harassed, to give? Paul learned to live in abundance and without it.

Paul actually was a preacher who worked a job as to not burden the church.

My experience in the ministry has tainted my view on churches needing money. If churches met in homes, there's little cost. Money can be given to ministries that show good stewardship and souls saved...and meeting needs of the least of these and those Christians in need.

Imho, the modern church is greedy to have the fancy buildings, huge staff, etc. Sure, more can potentially be done for Jesus, but is it? Is your money directly helping souls to get saved, healed, discipled, equipped to share Jesus?

See what your money would be paying for. Is a huge building necessary or even Biblical? Are ppl being discipled and healed of inner pain? Are ppl in the Body of Christ being helped with material needs...gas for a single parent, etc? If a church/org is willing to show you where every dollar goes, if the church/org bears fruit that aligns with Scripture (ex...are ppl in church allowed to gossip w/o correction? Are ppl allowed to live in sin and still feel comfy in that lifestyle as a Christian...with no one correcting them (Biblical church discipline is rare...ex...not supposed to even eat with a believer who won't repent of ongoing sin)... does the church/org teach husbands to not commit adultery by flirting with other women or looking with lust? Does it teach women to be accountable as to how they dress so to not cause brothers to stumble? Etc.

What's the percentage of the general teaching/attitude regarding lining up with the Bible vs lining up with society?

Sorry if I sound harsh or jaded...it's just that I don't believe church building loans are Biblical. Money spent reaching the lost is. Pastors can work other jobs. Where in the Bible do servant leaders fly around in private jets, if you catch my meaning.

As children's pastors, my husband felt that was just a "step" toward senior pastoring. Every pastor we knew desired to be another Copeland or other minister dripping with gold.

Nothing wrong with wealth...but Jesus warned a lot about money and it's temptation to greed, which the Bible says is idolatry.

There are lots of small church preachers who preach the Bible line by line and humbly endeavor to teach n live it. I give to these sweet shepherds...

I pray Abba gives you peace about this and shows you what He'd have you do!
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
For at least the past 4 services my church has been asking/talking about money. A few weeks ago they had someone stand up from an organization that gives churches loans and financial help (on a Sunday morning service) and talk about investing money into that organization (that our church used) to help finance churches. The pastor even stated this week and last week that him and his wife are giving 20% additional "on top of their tithe" now to support missions.

Inviting you to invest in an organization seems out of place for a church, unless the pastor means invest in as in give donations to.

Seems the pastor's works of giving will be some of his works that burn up when he's before Jesus... He should keep that to himself.

When money becomes more important than it should be for a church it often leads to the downfall of that church. I've seen that happen a few times over the course of my life.

When I was a young man when the church asked for money and then more, and then more I tended to be in the line of folks who kept opening up their wallet to the requests. Now that I'm old and have seen the destruction of churches that ask their members for more and more and more, I'm more likely to close my wallet to that church.
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
PS I don't see in the Bible where we tithe to a church per se. We tithe unto God...where He leads. Leaders like Paul deserved support as God was saving gentiles thru him. I tithe where God leads me... maybe that homeless person (plus a tract) or maybe that struggling parent with a handicapped child...it's awesome when God tells you where to give. No, I don't support preachers just because they are preachers. Fruit inspect...it's good stewardship
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
Inviting you to invest in an organization seems out of place for a church, unless the pastor means invest in as in give donations to.

Seems the pastor's works of giving will be some of his works that burn up when he's before Jesus... He should keep that to himself.

When money becomes more important than it should be for a church it often leads to the downfall of that church. I've seen that happen a few times over the course of my life.

When I was a young man when the church asked for money and then more, and then more I tended to be in the line of folks who kept opening up their wallet to the requests. Now that I'm old and have seen the destruction of churches that ask their members for more and more and more, I'm more likely to close my wallet to that church.
Easy for greed to take over...God won't be in a church that serves another master... I've seen churches get greedy then fall too
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
2 years ago my church was much smaller, never talked about money, and preached straight from the Bible. I remember being refreshed by large portions of the sermons being read directly from the Word. Now things seem different. The church is growing LARGE, has a new BIG worship center (financed), and seems to talk about money and tithing a lot more while always mentioning how "generous" our church is. It is starting to set off red flags for me...

For at least the past 4 services my church has been asking/talking about money. A few weeks ago they had someone stand up from an organization that gives churches loans and financial help (on a Sunday morning service) and talk about investing money into that organization (that our church used) to help finance churches. The pastor even stated this week and last week that him and his wife are giving 20% additional "on top of their tithe" now to support missions.

What makes matters worse is that the church is growing a lot and I feel like this is not a responsible thing to be preaching to new believers over and over again. I know for a fact that if some of my relatives happened to come with us to church (they have not in a long time), they would comment and be very turned off by the constant "money talk." I imagine this to be the case with baby Christians as well.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem giving to the Church and we do, it's just something seems different now and my wife and I have both noticed it separately. The first few times I brushed it off but now I can't. I hope I am just being oversensitive but I have been burned by churches with this stuff in the past (covert Hillsong takeover). Not sure what I am going to do yet but I am thinking I will be asking for some financial accountability and hopefully won't get any push-back when I ask to see their expenditures.

Any advice? Am I totally off base here? We just want to be good stewards with what God has given us.


Great advice on this thread!

It's reasonable to prayerfully voice your concerns directly with the Pastor and seek to find some answers. This might be a good 'alert that the ship might be off course' kind of moment for the church leaders and God may want to use you for this. This is a good Matthew 18 step.

You might consider starting out positively, with your appreciation in the past of good scriptural teachings that fed and nourished your soul. How that impacted you and your growth in the Lord. This is important for the pastor to hear.

Then, voice your concerns, respectfully, calmly and clearly.....it's ok to have something written out to refer to, like an outline, so you can stay on topic without distractions of rabbit trails. Expect there may be some push-back, stay calm with a charitable posture and repeat yourself like a broken record, don't let other subjects that may be introduced waylay your message of concern. Nor let any emotional, personal attacks get you ruffled (not saying this will happen but it can and having a response ready is good, along with letting personal attacks slide off, those are meant to bring distraction and evading rather than addressing things) just stay on subject.....this is important. :nod

I think James Suth's idea of ascertaining motivation is a very good idea. Because, if a good motivation is there that's really workable. You can then share your own heart on how with good teaching your sense of wanting to give (along with the Lord's prompting) was much stronger whereas you are now frankly feeling concerned and a red flag check in wanting to give because of the approach. Perhaps sharing about George Muller and others who've simply sought the Lord for supply would be good (in line with Pat's comments). It's not bad for the subject of tithing to come up in church....if it's in the passage being taught but it does raise some red flags if there's a constant barrage. It's ok to just be frank and honest.....truth in love here. :)

If you can, see if the pastor is willing to pray together on this during your meeting, as brother's in Christ wanting to see the Lord's will prevail.

And then, try to end on a positive note, speaking on the things you do see that are good, that's important. I believe Pastors do hear a lot of complaining and criticism, to the point of discouragement so having the good that you see ready to talk about is really helpful and shows your heart of building up in Christ. Kind of like how Jesus addressed some of the churches in Revelation, speaking on the good He saw and then His concern, ending with the good that can happen for those who listen. And then trust that the Lord will use your words to penetrate and cause some thought along with His leading for you as to what further actions might be appropriate.

Just sharing some thoughts that might be helpful in how you might want to approach this.

:pray ing!
 

Matthew6:33

Withstand in the evil day. Eph 6:13
Inviting you to invest in an organization seems out of place for a church, unless the pastor means invest in as in give donations to.

Seems the pastor's works of giving will be some of his works that burn up when he's before Jesus... He should keep that to himself.
These were two of the big red flags. I just found it very distasteful for the beginning of a Sunday service to start by inviting an organization up on the stage to talk about investing in church financing. Also the pastor mentioning his own personal giving on stage not one but two weeks in a row.
 

Matthew6:33

Withstand in the evil day. Eph 6:13
I have read all of the posts and I really appreciate the good advice.

I guess why this stuff really gets to me is because I am very conservative with my money and my doctrine.

It bothers me a lot when I hear pastors and the church talking about needing more and more and more. I start thinking to myself, does God really need the money to do His work -- no of coarse not. Does God need us in order to do His work -- no of coarse not. I think of the great preachers of the past and present that never asked for money but had thriving churches and ministries. Are we relying on our money, ministries, big church buildings, phone apps, and media to attract people or are they being attracted by the unshakeable Word of God that rocks the soul to the very core? Messages are compromised in order to not offend, but are people really hearing the truth or just having their ears tickled? Sometimes I just don't know.
:shrug
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
I have read all of the posts and I really appreciate the good advice.

I guess why this stuff really gets to me is because I am very conservative with my money and my doctrine.

It bothers me a lot when I hear pastors and the church talking about needing more and more and more. I start thinking to myself, does God really need the money to do His work -- no of coarse not. Does God need us in order to do His work -- no of coarse not. I think of the great preachers of the past and present that never asked for money but had thriving churches and ministries. Are we relying on our money, ministries, big church buildings, phone apps, and media to attract people or are they being attracted by the unshakeable Word of God that rocks the soul to the very core? Messages are compromised in order to not offend, but are people really hearing the truth or just having their ears tickled? Sometimes I just don't know.
:shrug
Really good Questions, have been thinking of Similar questions myself read Jack Kelley article and agree 100%
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
These were two of the big red flags. I just found it very distasteful for the beginning of a Sunday service to start by inviting an organization up on the stage to talk about investing in church financing. Also the pastor mentioning his own personal giving on stage not one but two weeks in a row.
It's a good idea maybe for the pastor to show that he tithes maybe...

And I rarely ever saw a pastor kneel at the alter for repentance or prayer...it could be a good example for the sheep
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
I have read all of the posts and I really appreciate the good advice.

I guess why this stuff really gets to me is because I am very conservative with my money and my doctrine.

It bothers me a lot when I hear pastors and the church talking about needing more and more and more. I start thinking to myself, does God really need the money to do His work -- no of coarse not. Does God need us in order to do His work -- no of coarse not. I think of the great preachers of the past and present that never asked for money but had thriving churches and ministries. Are we relying on our money, ministries, big church buildings, phone apps, and media to attract people or are they being attracted by the unshakeable Word of God that rocks the soul to the very core? Messages are compromised in order to not offend, but are people really hearing the truth or just having their ears tickled? Sometimes I just don't know.
:shrug
Agree! Like how many sermons on Hell, and the urgency of all saints to preach Jesus to the lost so they don't go there, have any of us heard lately? It's like the Church in general has lost it's love n fervor that the early church seemed to have in spades.

I read somewhere that a percentage of ppl who claim Christ don't even believe in Hell.

Now I love a comical, fluffy sermon too...but maybe on a Christian comedy show...not in church so much.

Jesus told Peter to FEED my sheep...not junk food...but such that will grow them up....and growing can include stretching and pain (of conviction or etc)

It is sad to me that the church in general has watered down the Word. Sure, maybe because of it Christians gain wealth, aren't persecuted or thrown into prison, etc. But is this cushy, safe life the kind that even our Lord and Savior lived? Nada. They killed Him for His words and actions. The disciples...beaten, imprisoned (they experienced miracles there), etc.

Seems to me if the world doesn't hate the church then the church is compromised. Not that I desire martyrdom, etc. But honestly, would I have faith to believe that God would open my prison cell doors if I was thrown in there for sharing the gospel?

Perhaps a reason why the modern church doesn't see many miracles is that we aren't in faith preaching the Gospel accurately. God says the world will hate us.

The modern day church, in general, is no different to me than the cult I grew up in. Having a "form" of godliness but denying it's power. We are told that the world will hate us n vice versa (hate wickedness)... anyone who loves the world does not have the Love of God within them.

I pray that churches get back to the basics. Jesus, the Word, sorrow for sin bc it harms our relationship with God.... passion for His will...even if it makes the world abhor the church
 

Bethlehem57

Well-Known Member
2 years ago my church was much smaller, never talked about money, and preached straight from the Bible. I remember being refreshed by large portions of the sermons being read directly from the Word. Now things seem different. The church is growing LARGE, has a new BIG worship center (financed), and seems to talk about money and tithing a lot more while always mentioning how "generous" our church is. It is starting to set off red flags for me...

For at least the past 4 services my church has been asking/talking about money. A few weeks ago they had someone stand up from an organization that gives churches loans and financial help (on a Sunday morning service) and talk about investing money into that organization (that our church used) to help finance churches. The pastor even stated this week and last week that him and his wife are giving 20% additional "on top of their tithe" now to support missions.

What makes matters worse is that the church is growing a lot and I feel like this is not a responsible thing to be preaching to new believers over and over again. I know for a fact that if some of my relatives happened to come with us to church (they have not in a long time), they would comment and be very turned off by the constant "money talk." I imagine this to be the case with baby Christians as well.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem giving to the Church and we do, it's just something seems different now and my wife and I have both noticed it separately. The first few times I brushed it off but now I can't. I hope I am just being oversensitive but I have been burned by churches with this stuff in the past (covert Hillsong takeover). Not sure what I am going to do yet but I am thinking I will be asking for some financial accountability and hopefully won't get any push-back when I ask to see their expenditures.

Any advice? Am I totally off base here? We just want to be good stewards with what God has given us.
I’m going to tell you what our Pastor said about tithing…

If it’s God’s will for the church to prosper (and he was talking about our church and how it eeked by for the first two years), that God would make a way for church to grow and be light to this darkness. And our church has, but that is not the focus. They don’t pass a plate around. If the Lord leads you to give, there are boxes at the back that are for that. Also, you can give online.

I believe that we are called to support the church, if not by serving directly, then by giving as much as you can. I don’t believe that there is a set percentage but I tend towards giving and knowing that God will work out Our finances along with that of the church’s. Others may feel different, but that’s my two cents.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
2 years ago my church was much smaller, never talked about money, and preached straight from the Bible. I remember being refreshed by large portions of the sermons being read directly from the Word. Now things seem different. The church is growing LARGE, has a new BIG worship center (financed), and seems to talk about money and tithing a lot more while always mentioning how "generous" our church is. It is starting to set off red flags for me...

For at least the past 4 services my church has been asking/talking about money. A few weeks ago they had someone stand up from an organization that gives churches loans and financial help (on a Sunday morning service) and talk about investing money into that organization (that our church used) to help finance churches. The pastor even stated this week and last week that him and his wife are giving 20% additional "on top of their tithe" now to support missions.

What makes matters worse is that the church is growing a lot and I feel like this is not a responsible thing to be preaching to new believers over and over again. I know for a fact that if some of my relatives happened to come with us to church (they have not in a long time), they would comment and be very turned off by the constant "money talk." I imagine this to be the case with baby Christians as well.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem giving to the Church and we do, it's just something seems different now and my wife and I have both noticed it separately. The first few times I brushed it off but now I can't. I hope I am just being oversensitive but I have been burned by churches with this stuff in the past (covert Hillsong takeover). Not sure what I am going to do yet but I am thinking I will be asking for some financial accountability and hopefully won't get any push-back when I ask to see their expenditures.

Any advice? Am I totally off base here? We just want to be good stewards with what God has given us.
You are not off base. Some red flags go up when things are out of proportion in preaching. Most people discount that uncomfortable feeling. Now it may well be that they are fine, but it's definitely time to do some quiet digging and thinking.

That kind of preaching was one of the first clues that the church I was part of in the 90's and got excommunicated from was going sideways in other ways. Many other ways.

A church can start off great, and go off the rails over time. I've seen it happen twice now in churches I've been part of.

you've got good advice here upthread, I have nothing to add to it, except to encourage you that you are not off base at all.

Oh and being "oversensitive" is more a case of once burnt, twice shy. God showed me things the first time I had to leave a church. The second time, I was more sensitive and thought I was being oversensitive.

Nope, just that with experience comes some wisdom and understanding having been thru it before. You spot the signs earlier, you see the same patterns happening.

If you get push back when asking for a look at expenditures (when you are being asked to give more), I'd say that is a giant EXIT HERE sign in flashing red lights.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
Agree! Like how many sermons on Hell, and the urgency of all saints to preach Jesus to the lost so they don't go there, have any of us heard lately? It's like the Church in general has lost it's love n fervor that the early church seemed to have in spades.

I read somewhere that a percentage of ppl who claim Christ don't even believe in Hell.

Now I love a comical, fluffy sermon too...but maybe on a Christian comedy show...not in church so much.

Jesus told Peter to FEED my sheep...not junk food...but such that will grow them up....and growing can include stretching and pain (of conviction or etc)

It is sad to me that the church in general has watered down the Word. Sure, maybe because of it Christians gain wealth, aren't persecuted or thrown into prison, etc. But is this cushy, safe life the kind that even our Lord and Savior lived? Nada. They killed Him for His words and actions. The disciples...beaten, imprisoned (they experienced miracles there), etc.

Seems to me if the world doesn't hate the church then the church is compromised. Not that I desire martyrdom, etc. But honestly, would I have faith to believe that God would open my prison cell doors if I was thrown in there for sharing the gospel?

Perhaps a reason why the modern church doesn't see many miracles is that we aren't in faith preaching the Gospel accurately. God says the world will hate us.

The modern day church, in general, is no different to me than the cult I grew up in. Having a "form" of godliness but denying it's power. We are told that the world will hate us n vice versa (hate wickedness)... anyone who loves the world does not have the Love of God within them.

I pray that churches get back to the basics. Jesus, the Word, sorrow for sin bc it harms our relationship with God.... passion for His will...even if it makes the world abhor the church
My Pastor preaches on that every week. Thank God! It is sad how few preach hell and the need for us to go out and share the Gospel to the lost. So many Pastors are preaching Ted Talks now.
 

lamonte

Well-Known Member
A few weeks ago they had someone stand up from an organization that gives churches loans and financial help (on a Sunday morning service) and talk about investing money into that organization (that our church used) to help finance churches.
This is easy one to answer---The message of Scripture on borrowing is quite clear: Do not do it. God commands Christians to keep out of debt altogether. "Owe no man anything, but to love one another" (Romans 13:8). Strong's Exhaustive Concordance amplifies the message behind these words: "Owe to no one, no not anything, nothing at all."

The word Usury is used 24 times in the KJV. The Hebrew word for “usury” is “neshek,” meaning literally “a bite,” because of its painfulness to the debtor. The word “usury” means “interest”. In the O.T. you were not to charge your Jewish brother interest. Usury was considered unjust gain. In Psa 15:1-5 David ask the “LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? The last quality he mentions in Psa 15:5 He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.

The borrower is servant to the lender (Proverbs 22:7). God intends for followers of Christ to be free from earthly entanglements to serve Him. No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier" (II Timothy 2:4). The very nature of borrowing is entanglement. The Hebrew words for borrowing are “abat”, to entangle, and “lavah”, to twine, to take an obligation, to unit with.

God has promised to provide for are needs "But my God shall supply all your needs according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.” (Philippians 4:19). When Christians borrow, they are saying to the world, "God is not taking care of my needs, so I have to make up for the difference with a loan.
 

lamonte

Well-Known Member
MEN OF GOD WHO REFUSED TO BORROW

NOAH

He could have borrowed money to build the ark. In fact, it would have been a shrewd move for him to have floated a loan; but it would have damaged his faith and his message. (See Genesis 6-7.)
MOSES
He could have borrowed material to construct the tabernacle; but that would have made God the servant of the people, rather than teaching the people how to serve the true and living God. (See Exodus 25-27.)
DAVID
He could have borrowed money to build the temple. Instead, he spent his lifetime gathering the materials, and his son was then able to build a far more glorious structure—debt free.(See I Chronicles 17,21.)
ABRAHAM
He could have borrowed money to buy the tomb for his wife, but it would have been a point of contention for many generations. Instead, he secured the land and the trees with a public contract. (See Genesis 23.)
JOASH
He could have borrowed money to pay the workmen who refurbished the temple. Instead, he collected the money ahead of time and gave it to the workmen as they had need of it. This caused joy among the people. (See II Chronicles 24:4-14.)
EZRA
He could have borrowed money to rebuild the temple, but it would have been a poor testimony to the king and the heathen. God provided the funds through the king whom Ezra served. (See Ezra 7:11-28.)
NEHEMIAH
He could have borrowed money to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem; but because of his obedience to the king, the king provided all that he needed for the building. (See Nehemiah 2:3-8.)
PAUL
He could have borrowed money for his missionary journeys. He could have even asked people to support him. Instead, he earned his support by laboring night and day. He became an example to every Christian after him. (See Acts 18:3; 20:33-35.)
 

lamonte

Well-Known Member
Here are a few quotes

Jesus Christ said more about money than about any other single thing because, when it comes to a man's real nature, money is of first importance. Money is an exact index to a man's true character. All through Scripture there is an intimate correlation between the development of a man's character and how he handles his money.
2 Cor 6:10 having nothing and making many rich, wealth can be used to bring many to Christ or you can leave it to your kids so they can relay on it and not Christ.
It is not persecution of the church that I fear. The church has always been able to weather persecution. My fear is love of money in the church.
A church debt is the devil’s salary.”
Beware of any work for God that you have to borrow money for…

There are three conversions necessary: the conversion of the heart, mind, and the purse. “Martin Luther”
 
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