Christians surprise Pride parade marchers with signs apologizing for anti-LGBTQ views

mattfivefour

Administrator
Staff member
Bottom line: be very cautious with any "Hell and Brimstone" message. It can easily go terribly wrong really fast!
Exactly. We can often win an argument. But God would rather we win a soul. Not by watering down the message. But by sharing it out of a heart of love and in a spirit of love. Our preparation to serve Christ must not just be in the letter of the Word but in the spirit of love.
 

No Weapon Formed

Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with your thoughts.
HOWEVER I would caution those who whose message to the lost basically sounds like: "IF YOU DON'T STOP SINNING (like me) YOU'RE GOING TO HELL
Romans 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Nahum 1:2-6
The Lord is a jealous and avenging God; the Lord is avenging and wrathful; the Lord takes vengeance on his adversaries and keeps wrath for his enemies. The Lord is slow to anger and great in power, and the Lord will by no means clear the guilty. His way is in whirlwind and storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. He rebukes the sea and makes it dry; he dries up all the rivers; Bashan and Carmel wither; the bloom of Lebanon withers. The mountains quake before him; the hills melt; the earth heaves before him, the world and all who dwell in it. Who can stand before his indignation? Who can endure the heat of his anger? His wrath is poured out like fire, and the rocks are broken into pieces by him.
John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.


And this is just a few out of MANY on GODS WRATH:
So my point to you is, All the word of the Lord is of Love and Grace, however, if I step to them ,homosexuals, murders etc. with pure lovely scriptures of The Lords words like this.....I would then be accepted with OPEN ARMS BY THEM?!
 

Luke12

Well-Known Member
So my point to you is, All the word of the Lord is of Love and Grace, however, if I step to them ,homosexuals, murders etc. with pure lovely scriptures of The Lords words like this.....I would then be accepted with OPEN ARMS BY THEM?!
Agree with this...….I don't think we're to be "Milquetoast" Christians...….


noun
noun: milquetoast; plural noun: milquetoasts
  1. 1.
    a timid or feeble person.
    "Jennings plays him as something of a milquetoast"
adjective
adjective: milquetoast
  1. 1.
    feeble, insipid, or bland.
    "a soppy, milquetoast composer"
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
HOWEVER I would caution those who whose message to the lost basically sounds like: "IF YOU DON'T STOP SINNING (like me) YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!!

If that's what the lost person hears you have likely wasted your time. I don't believe that one can attack a specific sin and expect a positive outcome, as if saying that it's that 1 sin th
I agree with this. If someone is a unbeliever, the thought of hell most likely has no affect since they dont believe its a real place.

Im a firm believer that more lost souls are led to Jesus by them witnessing the actions of Christians in the work place, friends....etc. Anyone can give a fire and brimstone talk, and maybe it might work on that rare occasion. Better yet, establish relationships with the lost, telling them our personal stories might lead them to have questions about why we believe as we do. Anytime we can have honest engagement one on one with the lost in a peaceful environment, the better it MIGHT have an impact.
 

lenraff

Well-Known Member
We often see this type of apostasy and tend to excuse it with the hope that the Grace of God will overcome these backslidden and or counterfeit Christians and eventually win them. But remember Lot. Sodom and the other four cities were destroyed for not only the sin of sodomy but the acceptance of it by the inhabitants. Imo. God Killed man, women and children for these abominations. This generation is no different and there are no exemptions when judgment falls. This pastor imo, is leading his flock to hell and justifying the horror. Shame on them.

Luk_22:53  .................. this is your hour, and the power of darkness. This is their hour!!
 

lenraff

Well-Known Member
This article reminded me of this sermon, called the Saint Must Walk Alone. The last paragraph imo is most pertinent:
The weakness of so many modern Christians is that they feel too much at home in the world. In their effort to achieve restful "adjustment" to an unregenerate society they have lost their pilgrim character and become an essential part of the very moral order against which they are sent to protest. The world recognizes them (modern Christians) and accepts them for what they are. This is the saddest thing that can be said about them. They are not lonely, but neither are they saints.

- A.W. Tozer
 

dave-o

Well-Known Member
My soul was won, with FIRE AND BRIMSTONE. THE VERSE THAT GOT ME WAS
Matthew chapter 10:33-34
I got real COMPLIANT quickly......lol
I get your points. I really do. But I guess I did a poor job of making my point.

LGBT sins most often are more than just rebellion, they are a full-blown addiction. Denouncing their sin and warning a gay person that they better REPENT and get on their knees right now and "Pray the Gay Away" rarely works. While it's true that some gays come to Christ and almost immediately lose all desire for that life, they are by far the exception.

Most Christians who were gay report that they have continued to struggle with it their whole life, some on a daily basis. It can be a very lonely life. They don't really fit in with straight people and they certainly can't hang out with gays anymore than a recovering alcoholic can hang out in bars!

There's a reason Satan chose this issue for the point of his spear to attack the church in these last days. We Christians must walk a tightrope between refusing to compromise on sin while trying to draw these poor people to Jesus. We obviously haven't done a stellar job thus far as eveidenced by the preacher in the OP article. And no wonder! It is a complex and multi-layered problem and there is no simple "one-size-fits-all" approach or solution.

We may have to agree to disagree but I would never break fellowship over this issue.
 
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lenraff

Well-Known Member
I get your points. I really do. But I guess I did a poor job of making my point.

LGBT sins most often are more than just rebellion, they are a full-blown addiction. Denouncing their sin and warning a gay person that they better REPENT and get on their knees right now and "Pray the Gay Away" rarely works. While it's true that some gays come to Christ and almost immediately lose all desire for that life, they are by far the exception.

Most Christians who were gay report that they have continued to struggle with it their whole life, some on a daily basis. It can be a very lonely life. They don't really fit in with straight people and they certainly can't hang out with gays anymore than a recovering alcoholic can hang out in bars!

There's a reason Satan chose this issue for the point of his spear to attack the church in these last days. We Christians must walk a tightrope between refusing to compromise on sin while trying to draw these poor people to Jesus. We obviously haven't done a stellar job thus far as eveidenced by the preacher in the OP article. And no wonder! It is a complex and multi-layered problem and there is no simple "one-size-fits-all" approach or solution.

We may have to agree to disagree but I would never break fellowship over this issue.
I hear what you're saying, and agree that the church is apostate in it's practices. By that I mean, we have lost our power to be shinning lights and allow the Holy Spirit to draw men to Christ by our example. Being living sacrifices to Jesus is way different than Preaching "Pray the Gay Away"

As far as sodomites coming to Christ, it's like any other sinner, the Father must draw them and they must answer the call. They are not a special race of sinners, just sinners. Our job remains the same, to be lighthouses guiding them safely to that shore.
 

soulpatch

Well-Known Member
Lots of good being said here. I apologize that my thoughts went so long but it seems that the softer approach isn't winning anyone, or at least very few. It appears the opposite is true. The message and warnings of Christianity have grown softer and quieter over the decades and what have we seen as a result? Sin, even and especially those sins that have traditionally been unspeakable, have grown out of control, the message has lost influence in schools, government, etc. The grace and love of God is meaningless to the lost if they don't have a clear understanding of what is at stake. The sinner can receive "love" and "acceptance" that makes them feel warm anywhere in this world. They don't need God for that. What they DO NEED is the covering of Christ in order to escape HIS wrath to come. Love doesn't always feel or sound good. It can sometimes come as a slap in the face to wake someone out of their slumber...and if anyone needs a slap in the face to wake up it's our society.

None of us are prophets. But we've been given messages from prophets of old WARNING of the coming wrath. Prophets didn't speak to make anyone feel warm and accepted and loved. They spoke to WARN of devastation to come if repentance didn't happen. That doesn't feel good to the hearer, but it is nonetheless love. You and I, with the Holy Spirit, know how good it is to be loved by God and be so thankful for His grace and His mercy. But as a lost person who can find "love" in sex, drinking and doing drugs with buddies, being accepted by others engaging in the same immoral lifestyles, being loved by a God they can't see, hear, feel, etc doesn't mean much. Their eyes need to be opened to the "hell and brimstone" to come.

Why be saved if there's nothing to be saved from. Why be grateful for grace and mercy when you don't see the need? Since you're here reading this I assume it's safe to say you believe the Rapture and Tribulation is at the door. Look, if a train is a few miles away you have a little bit of time to calmly reason with people to get off the tracks and to safety. But if you can see the steam or lights, time for reasoning is over and it's time to tell them plainly, "if you don't get off the tracks you're going to die!!!" And I guess that's what my main point is. Time for patiently, warmly, calmly reasoning is over. Christ is coming soon, and for those who reject Him, there will be no reasoning with Christ. It's over, done! When they are face to face with Him, He will not show mercy or grace. He will destroy them with everlasting torment, "hell and brimstone". It's our responsibility to help the lost understand this, by trying to get them to understand, with the help of the Holy Spirit, to see that horror is coming if they don't repent. After we have done all we can to make them understand this then it's on them.

If we REALLY believe Christ is coming soon and very soon, it's time to start yelling and telling them plainly it's time to get off the tracks or they're going to die. The gentle, warm, kind expressions of the church, other believers, etc didn't get my attention nearly as much as realizing I was going to hell if I didn't repent. Reason is not working today, the Christian faith is dying. It's time to get real. And real love tells the Truth...the hell and brimstone painful truth...and this IS love.

And I'll be danged if I didn't go long again.... :imsorry
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
The gentle, warm, kind expressions of the church, other believers, etc didn't get my attention nearly as much as realizing I was going to hell if I didn't repent.
soulpatch, praise God for His work in your life and for the faithful Christians who made sure to share your condition without Christ! And, thank you for sharing your thoughts, I 'hear' the care you have for the lost, reminds me of the Apostle Paul. It sparks a motivation in me to be even more intentional to reach out to others re; The Gospel.

I think you are right that people do need to be warned clearly and scripturally...that there's two choices, heaven or hell, with salvation from the wrath of God accessed only through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ period, and love certainly warns. I happen to be one who, by the kindness and gentleness of God, came to saving faith in Christ. Because of my background, anything else would have had me avoiding like the plague. God, in His faithfulness drew me by His cords of love. However, I suspect there are those who may need a sterner, serious approach......in love. After all, I've read it said here that some needed a spiritual two by four to get their attention.

I will be praying for the Holy Spirit's leading on this in regards to each person I come across myself. God knows what it will take and I've seen Him move in people's lives, without my help, to put the right encouragement to look to Christ. I pray that He would lead in His love, His spirit and His wise guidance my words and intensity. I think for me that's key.
 
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Jan51

Well-Known Member
The Old Testament prophets who warned of wrath and judgment were Jewish, sent to warn the Jews, who already knew of God and were to be following the Law, which they already knew. We need to look at Paul, in the New Testament. A study of his preaching in Acts indicates he did not preach wrath or love, but Jesus Christ, crucified for our sins, and resurrected to prove He is indeed God in the flesh; in other words, the gospel. (Be sure to note when he is speaking to Jews and when he is not. He does speak harshly to the Jews.)
 
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Popcornfish

Well-Known Member
Jamilah Salvador was walking in her first ever Pride parade this weekend in the Philippines when she came across something unexpected at the finish. Christians were holding signs apologizing for ways the religion had hurt the LGBTQ community.

*twitter*

The 19-year-old was marching with thousands of others in the annual parade in Marikina City, east of the country's capital, Manila. The parade came to a close at Marikina Stadium, where Salvador was pleasantly surprised by the Christian group.

"My heart really felt light upon seeing them," Salvador told CBS News. "I stopped when I saw them and read all of their messages and immediately felt goosebumps all over my body, then my tears started to build up."

*ads*

The main banners held by the group listed the ways "Christians harmed the LGBT community," including statements, such as "I've rejected and hurt your family in the name of 'family values.'" The other individual signs varied with messages like, "God loves you, so do we," and "I used to be a Bible-banging homophobe Sorry!!"

Salvador said, "people absolutely loved" the group's display, explaining that many marching in the parade had intense reactions to the messages. The teenager told CBS News that some "started bursting into tears upon seeing the signs. Some hugged and talked to these Christians. Some took photos, like what I did, and others just stood there in awe."

The photos that Salvador snapped and then posted on Twitter quickly went viral, along with other attendees images.

*twitter*

The group who brought the signs to the parade is from the Church of Freedom in Christ Ministries (FICM), an Evangelical and Pentecostal church in Makati, Philippines, reports BuzzFeed News.

The church's pastor, Val Paminiani, said that he has been going to Pride parades for around four years as a part of the organization's "I'm Sorry" campaign.

Paminiani told BuzzFeed News, "We are apologizing for the way Christians have hurt the LGBT community, especially by using the Bible in condemning and judging them."

The pastor continued that, "I used to believe that God condemns homosexuals, but when I studied the Scriptures, especially the ones that we call 'clobber Scriptures' that are being cherry-picked from the Bible to condemn LGBT people, I realized that there's a lot to discover, including the truth that God is not against anyone. God does not discriminate against people based on gender."

Paminiani stated that he hopes other Christians will not utilize Scriptures to condemn the LGBT community, because it is keeping people from participating in the church and from Jesus, according to BuzzFeed News.

"We pray that more and more Christians will act, speak, and love the LGBT people like Jesus would," he said.

If Salvador's reaction is any indication that the pastor's campaign is impacting the community some Christians condemn, this church is fulfilling its mission tenfold.

*more ads*

https://www.10tv.com/article/christians-surprise-pride-parade-marchers-signs-apologizing-anti-lgbtq-views-2019-jun
Paminiani at least made news as the living testimony of the scripture in Jude 1:4.

Jesus was God. Emmanuel, "God with us". And God said in the Old Testament that sexual immorality, a man who lay with a man as he would a woman, is an abomination and should be put to death.
In the New Testament Jesus didn't say sexual immorality was permitted. He said repent of your sins and be saved. The sexually immoral, which includes heterosexuals, will not see the kingdom.

So what does this man, because I refuse to consider him a preacher or pastor, tell homosexuals who come to his church? It's OK. Repent of your sins but continue to live in those that are the sin of sexually active homosexuality. God loves you?
His go along to get along philosophy will cost people their eternal souls.
Mark 10:6-9
But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
 

lenraff

Well-Known Member
Lots of good being said here. I apologize that my thoughts went so long but it seems that the softer approach isn't winning anyone, or at least very few. It appears the opposite is true. The message and warnings of Christianity have grown softer and quieter over the decades and what have we seen as a result? Sin, even and especially those sins that have traditionally been unspeakable, have grown out of control, the message has lost influence in schools, government, etc. The grace and love of God is meaningless to the lost if they don't have a clear understanding of what is at stake. The sinner can receive "love" and "acceptance" that makes them feel warm anywhere in this world. They don't need God for that. What they DO NEED is the covering of Christ in order to escape HIS wrath to come. Love doesn't always feel or sound good. It can sometimes come as a slap in the face to wake someone out of their slumber...and if anyone needs a slap in the face to wake up it's our society.

None of us are prophets. But we've been given messages from prophets of old WARNING of the coming wrath. Prophets didn't speak to make anyone feel warm and accepted and loved. They spoke to WARN of devastation to come if repentance didn't happen. That doesn't feel good to the hearer, but it is nonetheless love. You and I, with the Holy Spirit, know how good it is to be loved by God and be so thankful for His grace and His mercy. But as a lost person who can find "love" in sex, drinking and doing drugs with buddies, being accepted by others engaging in the same immoral lifestyles, being loved by a God they can't see, hear, feel, etc doesn't mean much. Their eyes need to be opened to the "hell and brimstone" to come.

Why be saved if there's nothing to be saved from. Why be grateful for grace and mercy when you don't see the need? Since you're here reading this I assume it's safe to say you believe the Rapture and Tribulation is at the door. Look, if a train is a few miles away you have a little bit of time to calmly reason with people to get off the tracks and to safety. But if you can see the steam or lights, time for reasoning is over and it's time to tell them plainly, "if you don't get off the tracks you're going to die!!!" And I guess that's what my main point is. Time for patiently, warmly, calmly reasoning is over. Christ is coming soon, and for those who reject Him, there will be no reasoning with Christ. It's over, done! When they are face to face with Him, He will not show mercy or grace. He will destroy them with everlasting torment, "hell and brimstone". It's our responsibility to help the lost understand this, by trying to get them to understand, with the help of the Holy Spirit, to see that horror is coming if they don't repent. After we have done all we can to make them understand this then it's on them.

If we REALLY believe Christ is coming soon and very soon, it's time to start yelling and telling them plainly it's time to get off the tracks or they're going to die. The gentle, warm, kind expressions of the church, other believers, etc didn't get my attention nearly as much as realizing I was going to hell if I didn't repent. Reason is not working today, the Christian faith is dying. It's time to get real. And real love tells the Truth...the hell and brimstone painful truth...and this IS love.

And I'll be danged if I didn't go long again.... :imsorry
Right On,. As a preacher said "We need more prophets in the pulpits and less politians!!"
IMO, we will see the continued conversion of the brick and mortar church into community centers and playhouses, and an explosion of the underground church the closer we get to the end. That will be the model we leave behind for the tribulation saints.
 

Mikedexion

Well-Known Member
The hour is late indeed....
VERY, I just saw on the news at least 2-3 countries this WEEK have either fully legalized gay marriage or took away the legal punishment of it. the saddest part is the majority of the church is like "oh well"... But I'm not surprised! Do you know the Southern Baptist Convention which has about 42,000 churches under its name... is owned by Freemasons?
 
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