Catholics praying to Mary and the saints yet still claim to be Christians

Jaybird

Well-Known Member
I am fine with being anathema in their eyes. It's just not important. I know Jesus! He's my Savior and King.

The day that all of this drops away and fades from sight is coming. Trumpet and shout, I'll fly away. My Lord in the clouds receiving his bride by the Father's command. Holy, perfect righteousness by his grace, sin nature gone, guilt gone, pain gone. The light of the Lord's presence will be SEEN. We'll enter into a feast with the Lord. We'll be in the presence of God. Holy holy holy is the lamb. Perfection.

Maranatha.

Jeff
Amen! Hallelujah! Come quickly Lord Jesus! Yes, it feels quite good being an anathema to the RCC.

2Cor 4:6 "For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."
 
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Jaybird

Well-Known Member
Wow, how did God open your eyes when you were in the cult, if you dont mind answering (plz dont if you dont want to)

The great news is, that if someone in RCC or other cult seeks God, gets into the Word...God will lead those who seek Him with all their heart to the Truth in Jesus!

I pray that ppl in cults would desire to seek for God despite their busy lives...Father God will meet them at their first step of seeking Him!! I pray that many will seek God n read the Bible and despite all the hardship of turning away from one's religion, will persevere in diligently seeking Faithful and True and be saved, the religion blinders falling off!!
I will try to answer your question. I was raised Catholic. Attended Catholic primary, middle and high schools and was very well steeped in RCC doctrine. When I went away to college I stopped going to church and fell away from anything religious. The RCC theology is confusing and you question everything. I was basically an agnostic. I went through some intense personal problems in my mid twenties and found Jesus to be the answer to my problems. (Funny how we never find Jesus when things are going great). I was lucky in that Jesus found me like he does with everyone. He opened my eyes - it's as simple as that!
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
Hey there Jojo, here's a bit of my testimony. I've gathered pieces that I've written here and there on RF and hopefully streamlined it smoothly for reading. Hopefully that did happen and is encouraging to others.


I grew up in a church (a cult) which was steeped in keeping Jewish holidays, a splash of Jehova's witness, and Seventh Day stuff too. I know....really out there. BUT, we were very well read on the bible (just didn't have the right understanding). Later in life, God was gracious and opened my eyes to the real Gospel: saved by grace through faith in Christ.

It is truly by God's grace and love that I am where I am, that I have the family I have and that I have been protected and somewhat unscathed considering my background! It is so true that if one turns to God, is faithful and leans upon Him and His guidance, He is so faithful to take care of us. God's grace and loving hand in my life is so very abundantly clear to me, more than ever. I just praise him that He protected me and navigated me since I left home into full and freeing truth, and His healing love.

As a child I grew up with a dad who was always troubled. He would yo-yo back and forth between anger/anxiety to being relaxed or emotionally exhausted by what ever was troubling him. He grew up in an immigrant family here in the U.S., and there was much pressure (from what I've gathered) to assimilate and become fully American, culturally. I remember my dad telling me how one of his parents would absolutely lose it if there was any misspelled words in his work, for example. Then, as a young man my dad decided to turn down a very excellent scholarship in order to attend a college called Ambassador College. He had joined a cult called the World Wide Church (WWC) of God started by Herbert Armstrong, thus turning away from his parent's then more protestant church, the Lutheran church.

WWC was a cult that borrowed from Mormonism, Seventh day Adventist, Jewish traditions (keeping the Sabbath, the Day of Atonement [that was pretty unnecessary and redundant, the Atonement was Jesus Christ Himself], Tabernacles, Feast of Trumpets, Days of Unleavened bread, etc.) and some other religions. From what I've learned since then, this was a very controlling church at the highest levels with horrible secrets such as young women being raped, and molested and then they and those who knew about it would be dis-fellowshipped......which if one is heavily invested and steeped into this church this would be a very devastating event as it's believed there that when a person is dis-fellowshipped they are also out of God's favor and kingdom. A tragedy of twisted theology. As I learn more about the RCC I can see some real parallels.

I will clarify that from what I understand there was a break within this church as part of the church began to understand the full grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and that we are made fully acceptable through His righteousness. My dad cognitively understood this, but struggled so very GREATLY to rest in this and apply this in his life at times.

My dad had being groomed for ministerial leadership in this cult, and while at a ministerial program his grooming was suddenly cut short and he was bused out of the area. In talking with someone today who knows a bit more than I ever knew, I've learned that most likely my dad didn't find favor or kiss the right you know what. In this case, most likely these would be people who themselves were abusive and engaged in sever mind control that typically exist within cults (I will also say that not all leadership within this church was abusive, there were some very kind people).

Within this cult, if one was being groomed for ministerial work that was the highest form of acceptance and affirmation for many of these men, apparently. They were treated with great reverence as if they were the prophet Elijah themselves, I kid you not. It also was not acceptable for church members to question, in any way, the doctrine of this church (another possibility of why my dad was suddenly removed). It sounds like for my dad, having this grooming cut short may have proceeded a possible mental break down. My dad's family have told me that when my dad graduated from the college and came back home he had changed greatly and had never been the same since. He was already traumatized by some things at his home and I think this time at the cult college absolutely broke him.

I grew up in this church as a child, and while the particular "church" my family attended was fairly relaxed compared to others (we didn't have ministers coming into the home checking to see if we really were eating wheat bread and not eating pork...another legalistic requirement) there was a lot of spiritual and legalistic abuse/false teachings both from the church and with my dad.

Everyone in WWC was a nervous wreck trying to 'prove' their righteousness by performing 'good works' but all were encased in great fear, anxiousness and constant dread of being expelled if their works were not cutting the mustard so to speak. There was no assurance of God's love, no assurance of secure salvation and nothing but comparison, one upping, finger pointing, and putrid self righteousness that tore other people down. I would easily venture to wonder, but not definitively say, that some if not many were not saved (but pray and hope they are :sad). And, any works were nothing as they were born out of self righteousness rather than in response to faith in God and His loving prompts in our hearts. In addition, there were actions that one could certainly say were outright evil and deeply egregious.

My family finally left this group (and we've learned that others we had been connected to there also left finding Jesus Christ instead, praise God!) and began to read the bible for ourselves anew and with fresh eyes. When my son was born I decided that I needed to know the truth so that I could tell him the truth rather than to feed him confusion and have him tormented as I saw my Dad. But, God was also drawing me to open up the bible to simply read for myself. It seemed there was already a hunger there (in fact, before my husband and I got married we both accepted Jesus as our Savior and were baptized --- the one thing this church did do right :scratch ) as I couldn't put the bible down and it seemed to nourish my soul. Additionally I had a commentary on hand and started to read that through a great portion of the bible as well.....praise God it was a good one! So, that's where God seemed to just take over for me and get me on a different path personally and then my husband and consequently our family (although there are some who I'm waiting to see God work more fully in).

From there we learned about God's abundant grace and how His salvation is freely given through simple faith in Christ, period. That Jesus as God, did all the hard work for us, and that He is our only mediator. We began to understand the gracious plans and new lives God had for us and it was incredible to begin to even contemplate! Suddenly there was a massively great burden and load lifted from our shoulders in that we did not have to perform or earn God's wonderful love and approval through our performance in the very least, but could simply rest in wonderful peace of the Work of Jesus Christ on the cross for us, where our sins had been paid completely and fully. Praise God!! And, to know that our place in heaven was permanently assured at the time of salvation was such a great relief! For quite awhile, we simply basked just in this, letting this heal our hearts, our lives. We stayed here for a bit letting the joy of the Lord take hold as we began to understand the fullness of what God had done....we were in a kind of holding pattern for a bit. At this time I suppose one wouldn't say that we were full of all sorts of good works but there certainly were the roots of God's love growing underground, so to speak, little by little.

Growing up in a pretty legalistic cult, it wasn't until the Salvation Doctrine was understood and acted on by placing trusting faith in Jesus, that I finally began to start to understand other doctrines. I now understand that if the most important doctrine of all, save by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, is not gotten right in the first place, then this will lend to faultiness in all other doctrines as well. Greatest error begetting further error so to speak. Some doctrines I didn't understand until years later but I was saved. I had to take many years to just let the Salvation Doctrine marinate in my mind, heart and soul and let that Doctrine bring healing in my life. Quite often as I panicked about whether I was saved or not (that was the enemy), God's word was so assuring and I would repeat to myself, sometimes by the minute this passage: God saved you by his grace when you believed. Ephesians 2:8. As far as other Doctrines, I think there was some rudimentary understanding but it's taken time for me to really grow in understanding of other doctrines (by God's grace).

At this time our motivations were so very different!! Motivation was not out of fear, compulsion or trying to show others that we were indeed walking with God, but rather out of a very joyful response and relationship that had developed between us and God, out of love and also knowing that God is the one directing and also watching, trusting that God would deal with any hearts outside of our relationship to show the truth of things.

From there a great joy and adventure of sorts seemed to come into play as we followed God and also saw God working in the midst of those situations we were led to. Most often those works that we were led into became a source of blessing for others and then for us too as we watched what God was doing in the midst. I loved that there was increased understanding of God's Word and then in turn healing of hearts and lives. This really encouraged us to continue in good works and look for more opportunities for them as there is such a joy that comes from them.

I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone but I will say that as I look at my life and how much it has changed, these opportunities to serve the Lord as He prompts me in good works does give me increased assurance of God's work in my life through faith in Jesus Christ. I don't take pride in them but rejoice in what God is doing. I hope this makes sense. And those good works started very, very, very, super very small!!! However, God is the one who fanned them to increase little by little. :)

Something else also came into play as we moved from the legalistic performance to the grace and love of God through faith in Jesus Christ. As we entered the Christian landscape I saw something I wasn't prepared for nor understood at the time. Those who called themselves Christians and yet acted very fleshly and incredibly destructive to the body of Christ. It was very grievous and harmful to their lives and the lives of others, particularly in impeding growth in Christ. It seemed that the grace of God was pointed to as a license to sin and movement towards biblically unsound teaching. I'm not exaggerating, it was very serious. :sad

When we were ready to go to a Sunday keeping church, I thought, "Whoo Hooo! I'm going to go to one of those churches that meet on Sunday!" not realizing what a landmine the Christian landscape could be. When I get to one church, I was hearing all about major meetings on whether there should be gay clergy allowed :shocked, and perhaps the stories in the bible are just stories, and "Did Christ really mean what He said?" questions, hints of universalism and all sorts of things. I was stunned. :surprised

I just couldn't figure out how a person who claims to be a believer could reconcile what the bible says and what they were advocating as being ok. :thinking:

This propelled my husband to join me in looking for another church and we were so blessed to find a grace based, Christ following church that taught straight from the bible, line by line plus application of principle and lesson teachings. And the growth in Christ exploded for us at that point.
As well as the peace and assurance of heart. Additionally I had come across Rapture Ready which had a forum at the time and also learned so much from wonderful brothers and sisters in Christ as they discussed various parts of the bible. I later move here to Rapture Forums and have continued to learn and grow to love the Church found here. :)

Later in learning a bit more about the RCC, I couldn't help but to be struck by the similarities of the priesthood in the Old Testament which at the time was a go between the people and God. But that's not necessary anymore, Hebrews says Jesus Christ has come and He is now our mediator, our High Priest. I wonder if Jesus' exclamation to the Pharisees and Sadducees may apply to the leaders of the RCC unless they repent:


But those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either.


Matthew 23:12-13



At any rate, I've appreciated the sharing of those who've come out of the RCC, I can relate a bit but it also helps give perspective on how to approach people from the RCC in the future. In the meantime, as I've read through this thread and how some have even put their families aside to follow Jesus, this passage kept popping up in my mind:

And everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or property, for my sake, will receive a hundred times as much in return and will inherit eternal life.

Matthew 19:29
Wow! Thank you, Everlasting Life for sharing your testimony to God's faithfulness to lead those who sincerely seek Him into His Truth! Ty for taking the time to write this out...it really blessed me today and I'm here praising The King, Faithful and True!! He is so kind to us, and patient! He is true to His Word, if ppl seek Him with all their hearts, they'll find Him...n no one can take such a gift n testimony away from those who've had such first hand teaching from The Lord God Almighty! Your testimony is a precious gift to you, and to those you share it with!!

It is humbling to know n see how God, the Creator, Lord of All...how He CARES for each individual soul that He created...and will be true to His promises as we believe on Him and seek Him!
Beaitiful testimony! I am sorry about your dad, he went thru so much it seems. But Father God takes our pain and holds us close!

Like you, I was excited to know Jesus and the true Gospel. I too was shocked that many Bible confessing Christ followers actually didnt live how they say they believed. I married such a wolf, who was in the mimistry...and saw mannny wolves in the ministry. But that helped me to grow n learn more about what Jesus taught. And that's everyone's responsibility...to seek God and accept His salvation, then to walk hand in hand with Him, showing we love Him by obeying Him.

Maybe ppl like us who came out of cults see what ppl who were raised in the Truth dont see easily. I mean, in RCC, comittment to what you say you believe was paramount, although fear was often used to reinforce your comittment...and the unsure footing of never knowing if you ever did enough good works to cancel out the bad ones...these cults never let you see your balance sheet so to speak, you never know if you're going to Heaven or not. For Catholics, most believe, as I did, that they'll most likely end up in purgatory...and get to Heaven eventually. So saaaad, not being secure in Jesus' work on the cross...that it was total n final. Jesus Himself showed me this, and that testimony is forever in my heart. What a precious Lord we serve!

Ty again for sharing. There does seem to be parallels to the cult you came out of to the RCC. Well, the devil isnt super original. Works for salvation is a type of slavery and never brings the rest by still waters that Jesus brings to His sheep.

I feel sad for those who were in that cult with you...whipped into a frenzy regarding never being perfect enough. Same for RCC. Satan's chains are heavy. I pray for those who are in cults that say heaven is earned by human perfection...that God will knock off the blinders so they can see the Truth in Jesus!!
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
I will try to answer your question. I was raised Catholic. Attended Catholic primary, middle and high schools and was very well steeped in RCC doctrine. When I went away to college I stopped going to church and fell away from anything religious. The RCC theology is confusing and you question everything. I was basically an agnostic. I went through some intense personal problems in my mid twenties and found Jesus to be the answer to my problems. (Funny how we never find Jesus when things are going great). I was lucky in that Jesus found me like he does with everyone. He opened my eyes - it's as simple as that!
Praise God, Jaybird! I so look fwd to hearing everyone's testimonies in Heaven, if God allows that! Ty for sharing! You are right about trials...God uses them to draw us closer to Him, under His wing! Often ppl get mad at God for trials, but if we believe that God will turn what the devil meant for harm into something good, that's the kind of faith that God looks for, like all the Bible ppl who went thru trials...God sees more than we can, we just need to believe that God is Who He says He is! Ty for sharing, God's love for us is incredible!!
 

Shonsu

Borg # 8675309
Hey there Jojo, here's a bit of my testimony. I've gathered pieces that I've written here and there on RF and hopefully streamlined it smoothly for reading. Hopefully that did happen and is encouraging to others.


I grew up in a church (a cult) which was steeped in keeping Jewish holidays, a splash of Jehova's witness, and Seventh Day stuff too. I know....really out there. BUT, we were very well read on the bible (just didn't have the right understanding). Later in life, God was gracious and opened my eyes to the real Gospel: saved by grace through faith in Christ.

It is truly by God's grace and love that I am where I am, that I have the family I have and that I have been protected and somewhat unscathed considering my background! It is so true that if one turns to God, is faithful and leans upon Him and His guidance, He is so faithful to take care of us. God's grace and loving hand in my life is so very abundantly clear to me, more than ever. I just praise him that He protected me and navigated me since I left home into full and freeing truth, and His healing love.

As a child I grew up with a dad who was always troubled. He would yo-yo back and forth between anger/anxiety to being relaxed or emotionally exhausted by what ever was troubling him. He grew up in an immigrant family here in the U.S., and there was much pressure (from what I've gathered) to assimilate and become fully American, culturally. I remember my dad telling me how one of his parents would absolutely lose it if there was any misspelled words in his work, for example. Then, as a young man my dad decided to turn down a very excellent scholarship in order to attend a college called Ambassador College. He had joined a cult called the World Wide Church (WWC) of God started by Herbert Armstrong, thus turning away from his parent's then more protestant church, the Lutheran church.

WWC was a cult that borrowed from Mormonism, Seventh day Adventist, Jewish traditions (keeping the Sabbath, the Day of Atonement [that was pretty unnecessary and redundant, the Atonement was Jesus Christ Himself], Tabernacles, Feast of Trumpets, Days of Unleavened bread, etc.) and some other religions. From what I've learned since then, this was a very controlling church at the highest levels with horrible secrets such as young women being raped, and molested and then they and those who knew about it would be dis-fellowshipped......which if one is heavily invested and steeped into this church this would be a very devastating event as it's believed there that when a person is dis-fellowshipped they are also out of God's favor and kingdom. A tragedy of twisted theology. As I learn more about the RCC I can see some real parallels.

I will clarify that from what I understand there was a break within this church as part of the church began to understand the full grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and that we are made fully acceptable through His righteousness. My dad cognitively understood this, but struggled so very GREATLY to rest in this and apply this in his life at times.

My dad had being groomed for ministerial leadership in this cult, and while at a ministerial program his grooming was suddenly cut short and he was bused out of the area. In talking with someone today who knows a bit more than I ever knew, I've learned that most likely my dad didn't find favor or kiss the right you know what. In this case, most likely these would be people who themselves were abusive and engaged in sever mind control that typically exist within cults (I will also say that not all leadership within this church was abusive, there were some very kind people).

Within this cult, if one was being groomed for ministerial work that was the highest form of acceptance and affirmation for many of these men, apparently. They were treated with great reverence as if they were the prophet Elijah themselves, I kid you not. It also was not acceptable for church members to question, in any way, the doctrine of this church (another possibility of why my dad was suddenly removed). It sounds like for my dad, having this grooming cut short may have proceeded a possible mental break down. My dad's family have told me that when my dad graduated from the college and came back home he had changed greatly and had never been the same since. He was already traumatized by some things at his home and I think this time at the cult college absolutely broke him.

I grew up in this church as a child, and while the particular "church" my family attended was fairly relaxed compared to others (we didn't have ministers coming into the home checking to see if we really were eating wheat bread and not eating pork...another legalistic requirement) there was a lot of spiritual and legalistic abuse/false teachings both from the church and with my dad.

Everyone in WWC was a nervous wreck trying to 'prove' their righteousness by performing 'good works' but all were encased in great fear, anxiousness and constant dread of being expelled if their works were not cutting the mustard so to speak. There was no assurance of God's love, no assurance of secure salvation and nothing but comparison, one upping, finger pointing, and putrid self righteousness that tore other people down. I would easily venture to wonder, but not definitively say, that some if not many were not saved (but pray and hope they are :sad). And, any works were nothing as they were born out of self righteousness rather than in response to faith in God and His loving prompts in our hearts. In addition, there were actions that one could certainly say were outright evil and deeply egregious.

My family finally left this group (and we've learned that others we had been connected to there also left finding Jesus Christ instead, praise God!) and began to read the bible for ourselves anew and with fresh eyes. When my son was born I decided that I needed to know the truth so that I could tell him the truth rather than to feed him confusion and have him tormented as I saw my Dad. But, God was also drawing me to open up the bible to simply read for myself. It seemed there was already a hunger there (in fact, before my husband and I got married we both accepted Jesus as our Savior and were baptized --- the one thing this church did do right :scratch ) as I couldn't put the bible down and it seemed to nourish my soul. Additionally I had a commentary on hand and started to read that through a great portion of the bible as well.....praise God it was a good one! So, that's where God seemed to just take over for me and get me on a different path personally and then my husband and consequently our family (although there are some who I'm waiting to see God work more fully in).

From there we learned about God's abundant grace and how His salvation is freely given through simple faith in Christ, period. That Jesus as God, did all the hard work for us, and that He is our only mediator. We began to understand the gracious plans and new lives God had for us and it was incredible to begin to even contemplate! Suddenly there was a massively great burden and load lifted from our shoulders in that we did not have to perform or earn God's wonderful love and approval through our performance in the very least, but could simply rest in wonderful peace of the Work of Jesus Christ on the cross for us, where our sins had been paid completely and fully. Praise God!! And, to know that our place in heaven was permanently assured at the time of salvation was such a great relief! For quite awhile, we simply basked just in this, letting this heal our hearts, our lives. We stayed here for a bit letting the joy of the Lord take hold as we began to understand the fullness of what God had done....we were in a kind of holding pattern for a bit. At this time I suppose one wouldn't say that we were full of all sorts of good works but there certainly were the roots of God's love growing underground, so to speak, little by little.

Growing up in a pretty legalistic cult, it wasn't until the Salvation Doctrine was understood and acted on by placing trusting faith in Jesus, that I finally began to start to understand other doctrines. I now understand that if the most important doctrine of all, save by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, is not gotten right in the first place, then this will lend to faultiness in all other doctrines as well. Greatest error begetting further error so to speak. Some doctrines I didn't understand until years later but I was saved. I had to take many years to just let the Salvation Doctrine marinate in my mind, heart and soul and let that Doctrine bring healing in my life. Quite often as I panicked about whether I was saved or not (that was the enemy), God's word was so assuring and I would repeat to myself, sometimes by the minute this passage: God saved you by his grace when you believed. Ephesians 2:8. As far as other Doctrines, I think there was some rudimentary understanding but it's taken time for me to really grow in understanding of other doctrines (by God's grace).

At this time our motivations were so very different!! Motivation was not out of fear, compulsion or trying to show others that we were indeed walking with God, but rather out of a very joyful response and relationship that had developed between us and God, out of love and also knowing that God is the one directing and also watching, trusting that God would deal with any hearts outside of our relationship to show the truth of things.

From there a great joy and adventure of sorts seemed to come into play as we followed God and also saw God working in the midst of those situations we were led to. Most often those works that we were led into became a source of blessing for others and then for us too as we watched what God was doing in the midst. I loved that there was increased understanding of God's Word and then in turn healing of hearts and lives. This really encouraged us to continue in good works and look for more opportunities for them as there is such a joy that comes from them.

I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone but I will say that as I look at my life and how much it has changed, these opportunities to serve the Lord as He prompts me in good works does give me increased assurance of God's work in my life through faith in Jesus Christ. I don't take pride in them but rejoice in what God is doing. I hope this makes sense. And those good works started very, very, very, super very small!!! However, God is the one who fanned them to increase little by little. :)

Something else also came into play as we moved from the legalistic performance to the grace and love of God through faith in Jesus Christ. As we entered the Christian landscape I saw something I wasn't prepared for nor understood at the time. Those who called themselves Christians and yet acted very fleshly and incredibly destructive to the body of Christ. It was very grievous and harmful to their lives and the lives of others, particularly in impeding growth in Christ. It seemed that the grace of God was pointed to as a license to sin and movement towards biblically unsound teaching. I'm not exaggerating, it was very serious. :sad

When we were ready to go to a Sunday keeping church, I thought, "Whoo Hooo! I'm going to go to one of those churches that meet on Sunday!" not realizing what a landmine the Christian landscape could be. When I get to one church, I was hearing all about major meetings on whether there should be gay clergy allowed :shocked, and perhaps the stories in the bible are just stories, and "Did Christ really mean what He said?" questions, hints of universalism and all sorts of things. I was stunned. :surprised

I just couldn't figure out how a person who claims to be a believer could reconcile what the bible says and what they were advocating as being ok. :thinking:

This propelled my husband to join me in looking for another church and we were so blessed to find a grace based, Christ following church that taught straight from the bible, line by line plus application of principle and lesson teachings. And the growth in Christ exploded for us at that point.
As well as the peace and assurance of heart. Additionally I had come across Rapture Ready which had a forum at the time and also learned so much from wonderful brothers and sisters in Christ as they discussed various parts of the bible. I later move here to Rapture Forums and have continued to learn and grow to love the Church found here. :)

Later in learning a bit more about the RCC, I couldn't help but to be struck by the similarities of the priesthood in the Old Testament which at the time was a go between the people and God. But that's not necessary anymore, Hebrews says Jesus Christ has come and He is now our mediator, our High Priest. I wonder if Jesus' exclamation to the Pharisees and Sadducees may apply to the leaders of the RCC unless they repent:


But those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either.


Matthew 23:12-13



At any rate, I've appreciated the sharing of those who've come out of the RCC, I can relate a bit but it also helps give perspective on how to approach people from the RCC in the future. In the meantime, as I've read through this thread and how some have even put their families aside to follow Jesus, this passage kept popping up in my mind:

And everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or property, for my sake, will receive a hundred times as much in return and will inherit eternal life.

Matthew 19:29

Wow, my dad was caught up in the same cult. Thankfully he left it when the big split happened and eventually came to the true Jesus.
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
Wow, my dad was caught up in the same cult. Thankfully he left it when the big split happened and eventually came to the true Jesus.

That's really great! Praise God! I'd love to hear his story.

Yeah, the leader of this cult was very charismatic and spoke with a sense of authority on the radio. Unfortunately many were taken in and pulled out of good churches. The group that stayed in false teaching has splintered into I believe close to 150 different replicas of itself.

Every now and then someone asks about a group they are looking at and I'll recognize some familiar aspects of WWCG and trace the group back to it's origins to the WWCG. Of course they are the splinter group that's the "true church of God" not the others. :rolleyes:

If it's not the RCC, there's plenty of other religious, works based entities to give another deceptive flavor but with the same kind of blocking people from direct access to Jesus Christ that God intends and placing man or something else in the way.

But, you know, as others are sharing in this thread of their own experience with the RCC, God in His grace is faithful to draw people to Christ. :)
 

Jaybird

Well-Known Member
Praise God, Jaybird! I so look fwd to hearing everyone's testimonies in Heaven, if God allows that! Ty for sharing! You are right about trials...God uses them to draw us closer to Him, under His wing! Often ppl get mad at God for trials, but if we believe that God will turn what the devil meant for harm into something good, that's the kind of faith that God looks for, like all the Bible ppl who went thru trials...God sees more than we can, we just need to believe that God is Who He says He is! Ty for sharing, God's love for us is incredible!!
JoJo124, Trust me, I didn't reveal all of the details and perhaps one day soon i will post my testimony, but it truly was a miraculous moment for me. I wasn't one who despised those who believed. I was in the middle. Not really believing, but not a hard core atheist. In the midst of my really bad personal problems I heard a preacher on television say that Jesus can solve any problem you have. I heard this and thought why not give it a try. So I prayed and had this great weight lifted off my shoulders. It was a very emotional moment for me and I knew it was the touch of Jesus in my life. I wandered for a long time, but the Good Shepherd always brings his sheep back to his flock. Praise God for his mercy.
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
JoJo124, Trust me, I didn't reveal all of the details and perhaps one day soon i will post my testimony, but it truly was a miraculous moment for me. I wasn't one who despised those who believed. I was in the middle. Not really believing, but not a hard core atheist. In the midst of my really bad personal problems I heard a preacher on television say that Jesus can solve any problem you have. I heard this and thought why not give it a try. So I prayed and had this great weight lifted off my shoulders. It was a very emotional moment for me and I knew it was the touch of Jesus in my life. I wandered for a long time, but the Good Shepherd always brings his sheep back to his flock. Praise God for his mercy.

That would be great to read your testimony sometime! Testimonies are such an encouragement for the body of Christ. :)
 

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
Would any of you trade the years you had in a false system of worship for a lifetime of being born and raised in a correct one? I used to be upset about the wasted years of being duped by the papacy and falling prey to their false system of salvation: all the masses, the confessions to a priest, worshipping a wafer, praying to statues, wearing a scapular briefly, and all the other bogus non-Christian things that the followers of Romanism are conned into doing and believing. Also was and still upset that my parents and relatives also were and are still victims of their beguiling.

But then it donned on me that after I got saved from that, the Lord gave me a strong desire to witness to other Catholics and especially family members who are still beholden to Rome's lies. I felt that that became my “calling” was to expose the errors of the RCC to those still trapped in it. Just like the Apostles who were trusting in their Jewishness and traditions to save them, they first reached out to other Jews before taking their message to the world.

We are very blessed to begin with to have the Lord free us of the deception - there are multitudes who have not come out of whatever false gospel that they are in bondage to - but we have been equally blessed to have a desire to see others unshackle themselves to what binds them and discover the free gift that only Christ can provide.
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
JoJo124, Trust me, I didn't reveal all of the details and perhaps one day soon i will post my testimony, but it truly was a miraculous moment for me. I wasn't one who despised those who believed. I was in the middle. Not really believing, but not a hard core atheist. In the midst of my really bad personal problems I heard a preacher on television say that Jesus can solve any problem you have. I heard this and thought why not give it a try. So I prayed and had this great weight lifted off my shoulders. It was a very emotional moment for me and I knew it was the touch of Jesus in my life. I wandered for a long time, but the Good Shepherd always brings his sheep back to his flock. Praise God for his mercy.
God is so good!!! Praise God for tv evangelists... I love how God can use anything to call to us...and you responded!! I bet the angels were celebrating in that moment :) He is a Good Shepherd for sure!!!
 

Psalm37v4

Well-Known Member
Why do Catholics claim they are Christian and still pray to Mary and the saints?
They don’t understand true Christianity. Odds are most of them don’t read their Bibles, especially because they’re not encouraged to by their priests. They probably don’t realize that most of the scriptures Catholics try to use to support praying to Mary and Saints is misinterpreted, and that we are not to add to or take away from the Scriptures. Catholics add traditions and revelations to form their doctrines.
 

Seashell

Well-Known Member
Not to mention the phony doctrine of Purgatory. No second chances. This life is all you get.
I’m just explaining the belief, so you are properly understanding what Catholics believe. Catholics believe if you go to Purgatory, you are going to heaven and that’s the only destination. It’s not a second chance. It’s just that you have to be perfect before you can enter heaven. It’s all through the Old Testament, but I’m only using the new. So you have to be purified before going to heaven. Revelation 21:27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoeverworketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

This verse implies some sins can be forgiven in the afterlife.

Matthew 12:31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 12:32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

You have to remember that a lot of the Catholic Church, both Eastern and Western still have a lot of the ideas that came from Judiaism, which makes sense as the first Christians were mostly Jewish People.

Zachariah 13:9. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
 
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SkyRider

Well-Known Member
Purgatory is a lie from Satan. Just another means of the papacy to diminish what Jesus Christ accomplished for us on the cross. The papacy, inspired by the enemy, doesn't waste an opportunity deny the sufficiency of Our Lord and Savior. Someday you will see that; hopefully it won't be too late. Flee their false teachings while you are still able.
 

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
Also, the false doctrine of the necessity for “purging leftover sins” in a fictitious place called Purgatory is another reason why the papacy doesn't believe in the Rapture of the true believers in Christ. Jesus coming for His own and taking them directly to Heaven leaves no time for a stopover in Purgatory. It completely blows away this demonic doctrine of having to purge away sins that Christ's death couldn't cleanse us from. It, again, is satanic - you are in essence not trusting in Christ at all but instead in a system of unbiblical teachings.

You are putting your faith in a rocky house of cards - that is held together by the ultimate joker - instead of the true Rock, Jesus Christ.
 

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
This verse from Scripture is one that the RCC doesn't want you to believe. If you did believe it, it would put their priests out of a job. This one passage alone negates the need for the mass, for paying a penance for sins, and for the bogus doctrine of Purgatory.


“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. “- 1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins to God and then He cleanses us from ALL!!!! unrighteousness, WHAT IS LEFT OVER TO PURGE???
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
Would any of you trade the years you had in a false system of worship for a lifetime of being born and raised in a correct one? I used to be upset about the wasted years of being duped by the papacy and falling prey to their false system of salvation: all the masses, the confessions to a priest, worshipping a wafer, praying to statues, wearing a scapular briefly, and all the other bogus non-Christian things that the followers of Romanism are conned into doing and believing. Also was and still upset that my parents and relatives also were and are still victims of their beguiling.

But then it donned on me that after I got saved from that, the Lord gave me a strong desire to witness to other Catholics and especially family members who are still beholden to Rome's lies. I felt that that became my “calling” was to expose the errors of the RCC to those still trapped in it. Just like the Apostles who were trusting in their Jewishness and traditions to save them, they first reached out to other Jews before taking their message to the world.

We are very blessed to begin with to have the Lord free us of the deception - there are multitudes who have not come out of whatever false gospel that they are in bondage to - but we have been equally blessed to have a desire to see others unshackle themselves to what binds them and discover the free gift that only Christ can provide.
Wow, I never made that connection...that the ppl who came out of the Jewish faith witnessed to Jews...I stayed in the RCC for a year after I was saved...didnt see many get excited about Jesus...but a couple did
Also, the false doctrine of the necessity for “purging leftover sins” in a fictitious place called Purgatory is another reason why the papacy doesn't believe in the Rapture of the true believers in Christ. Jesus coming for His own and taking them directly to Heaven leaves no time for a stopover in Purgatory. It completely blows away this demonic doctrine of having to purge away sins that Christ's death couldn't cleanse us from. It, again, is satanic - you are in essence not trusting in Christ at all but instead in a system of unbiblical teachings.

You are putting your faith in a rocky house of cards - that is held together by the ultimate joker - instead of the true Rock, Jesus Christ.
Purgatory is blasphemy. It says that God's provided blood sacrifice to pay for sins completely isnt enough. It is saying that The Almighty God isnt smart enough, or whatever, to actually do what He said He did...provide a propitiation for sin. If someone doesnt believe that Jesus paid it ALL, then they are an unbeliever, not a Christ follower.

No where in the Bible did the Word of God, Jesus, say that human suffering earns anything, much less part of their salvation.

Purgatory gives ppl an excuse to sin...thinking I can sin, suffer a bit in Purgatory, then go to Heaven. No where in the Bible does it say that sinful people will go to Heaven. That also slaps Jesus in the face as He suffered and was murdered to pay our pinishment. God hates sin yet He provided The Way for us to completely escape tormemt...not partially. God doesnt do things half-way. Why would He half-save us? Doesnt sound like the Creator God that I believe in. If there were a Purgatory, then it would be a waste to have a Savior suffer at all.

Purgatory is a dangerous show of unbelief in God's character, an unwillingness to acknowledge that God's ways are higher than any person's, refusal to accept God's actual requirements for salvation and not adding to them, and using excuses to sin and not ask God to help you live a holy life of obeying Jesus as is the cost of following Jesus.

Purgatory, like anything that keeps God from receiving 100% of the glory, is from satan. God likes all or nothing....hot or cold...good tree or bad tree, etc there are no in betweens. Either something is of God or it isn't.
 

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
Jesus, when being crucified on the cross, told the thief, who was being crucified next to Him and had asked Jesus to remember the thief when He would enter His kingdom, told the doomed man, “Today, you will be with me in Paradise”, not, “I'm sending you off to do time in Purgatory first, and then I'll let you in”.

Of course, Rome would counter “Well, the thief was being crucified, for crying out loud. How much more punishment would he have to endure?”. And if that is the argument that they would put forward as to why he was promised Paradise immediately, then the solution should be for dieing Catholics to be nailed to a cross immediately before death and forego a Purgatory. I know, a bit ridiculous but so is the invented false doctrine of a purging station.

If that is the best you can get out of one's particular denomination, then you are in serious trouble, salvation-wise; especially after a lifetime of jumping through Rome's many hoops and requirements. It is One False Church.
 

Jaybird

Well-Known Member
Agree with everything said by JoJo4124 and SkyRider. There are so many RCC dogmas that are simply made up. Look up what the RCC stated at the Council of Trent to refute the Reformation. They readily admit that they base their beliefs on the Bible AND RCC traditions. Why do they add things that are not found in the New Testament? Is God not capable of ensuring that the people who wrote the New Testament would do so according to what He wanted to say? Purgatory is just one example of these "traditions." Why bother having a Savior if these "traditions" earn us eternal life?

Ephesians 1:7-10 "In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth."

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

Who would you rather believe? The Pope or the Apostle Paul? I'll take Paul.
 

Jaybird

Well-Known Member
One more thing: Galatians 1:6-9

"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed."

There is only one Gospel.
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
Very interesting. For the sake of those reading I'm just going to counter these ideas with scriptural truth here to give clarity.



I’m just explaining the belief, so you are properly understanding what Catholics believe. Catholics believe if you go to Purgatory, you are going to heaven and that’s the only destination. It’s not a second chance. It’s just that you have to be perfect before you can enter heaven. It’s all through the Old Testament, but I’m only using the new. So you have to be purified before going to heaven. Revelation 21:27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoeverworketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Yes, one does need to be purified before going to heaven. Notice who's only allowed, those written in the Lamb's book of life. What this indicates is only those who've placed faith in Jesus, the lamb of God, who died on the cross to pay for all sins will be in heaven. Because only the blood of Jesus (not a wafer) cleanses a soul. How does one get written in the Lamb's book of life?

.....and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 1:7

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

John 1:29

Even the Apostle Peter agrees with this. Here's his own words:

For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And it was not paid with mere gold or silver, which lose their value. It was the precious blood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God. God chose him as your ransom long before the world began, but now in these last days he has been revealed for your sake.

1Peter 1:18-20

It must be understood that the blood of Jesus once and for all time is fully sufficient to cover all sin.

So Christ has now become the High Priest over all the good things that have come. He has entered that greater, more perfect Tabernacle in heaven, which was not made by human hands and is not part of this created world. With his own blood—not the blood of goats and calves—he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

Hebrews 9:11-12

This is why a believer in Jesus Christ rests in faith in Jesus. He did all the work for us not letting any part be dependent on anyone else or thing that could create a loophole for not being firmly saved.

So then Jesus can say to us as He did to His disciples:

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand. The Father and I are one.”

John 10:28-30


So, because of the Lamb of God's sacrifice, Jesus' blood cleanses once and for all time those who place faith in Him and those cleansed are found in the book of the Lamb. As a result a believer in Jesus is in the firm grip of not only Jesus but also God the Father.

Isaiah 43:13 echoes this:

“From eternity to eternity I am God.
No one can snatch anyone out of my hand.
No one can undo what I have done.”


and spoke as Israel's future redeemer:

This is what the Lord says—your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel:

.....“I—yes, I alone—will blot out your sins for my own sake
and will never think of them again.


vs 14, 25

This is why folks, knowing your bible is important for the bible explains itself and with the Holy Spirit brings understanding.

This verse implies some sins can be forgiven in the afterlife.

Matthew 12:31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 12:32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

To say that this passage in Matthew implies sins can be forgiven in the afterlife I believe is adding to the text where there is none there and contradicts other scripture. When Jesus was speaking of this age or world, He was speaking of the days of His earthly ministry (this sin is not about those who may resist the Gospel for years before finally placing saving faith in Jesus, saving them to the uttermost, however, if the Gospel is rejected and faith is not placed in Jesus before death, this is certainly a sin that will not be forgiven).


For God says,

“At just the right time, I heard you.
On the day of salvation, I helped you.”
Indeed, the “right time” is now. Today is the day of salvation.

2 Corinthians 6:2



And the jailer asked for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear, he fell down before Paul and Silas; and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”


Acts 16:29-31

He [God] made no distinction between us and them, for he cleansed their hearts through faith.

Acts 15:9


And for those still worried about the unpardonable sin, here's some info:


https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/the-unpardonable-sin/
Q
If someone like an atheist, who previously rejected Christ, but later in life accepts him as their savior, then he is forgiven. Is not the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit then essentially when a person is in a position where they permanently reject Christ?
A
I’m not sure it’s possible for any one other than the Pharisees of Matt. 12 to commit the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. When unbelievers do this, they don’t really know what they’re doing and it’s the intent of our heart that matters to God. Since the Holy Spirit is sealed within believers, it’s impossible for us to commit this sin. But the Pharisees knew what they were doing and “with malice aforethought” attributed the Lord’s miraculous power to Satan.
For us, the only unforgivable sin is to permanently reject the pardon that the Lord purchased for each one of us with His own blood. When we do that, we’ve said no to the only remedy that God has provided for us, and therefore our sins can’t be forgiven.

You have to remember that a lot of the Catholic Church, both Eastern and Western still have a lot of the ideas that came from Judiaism, which makes sense as the first Christians were mostly Jewish People.

This is an interesting connection.


Zachariah 13:9. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.


This is not about the church whatsoever, but rather about the Nation of Israel, of whom God still has a plan for. It's through the nation of Israel that Jesus, when finally accepted as their Messiah, will return and establish His millennial Kingdom. The age to come. Revelation 20 and 21 refers to the end and after the Messiah's millennial Kingdom.
 
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