Catholics praying to Mary and the saints yet still claim to be Christians

[SkyRider]

I can remember years ago when I told my parents that I was no longer a Roman Catholic, not only did they take it as a personal affront to their years of effort to keep me grounded in the “One True Church”, but my mother also told me that I couldn't just leave until I spoke with a Catholic priest first about it. I had to tell her that I was not beholden to them, that I certainly did not require their permission to free myself of their ranks.

To all of us ex-Catholics, we are still included in their census, if that is the correct term. The 1.5 billion or so Catholics never gets adjusted for those who leave. I think they count by baptisms or any other method that one gets included into their registry. So the number could be askew somewhat but hopefully more have left that just a minimal amount.

When I first got first got into computering and discovered the wide realm of the internet, I found a Catholic website called Ask A Deacon or Priest that I would go on in hopes of witnessing to Roman Catholics. I found it extremely frustrating though. Whenever I backed up my points with scripture, the Bible verses would get removed. If I presented a strong case why a certain doctrine of theirs was scripturally wrong, I was also reminded over and over that their traditions (additions) and the Curia's / Popes proclamations had equal footing with what is in the Bible. I found that not to be the case though, as they continually deleted scripture from the conversation. They totally showed me how their doctrines and papal pronouncements trumped whatever God reveals to us in His Word.

I can remember a bit of one conversation to them that I was having and it had to do with the 144,000 Jewish evangelists that will appear during the Trib. I forget what to them the number represented but one of the deacons became unglued because he thought I was Jewish and posting on their site. He said something to the effect of what was a Jew doing on the site and presenting a Jewish viewpoint. It was at about that time that I felt their would be no way to continue on the site and the hope of bringing any light to whoever might be viewing in would be futile.

 

[Jaybird]

All of us ex-Catholics who know the Truth bemoan the fact of how difficult it is to change the minds of our Catholic families and friends. All we can do is pray for them to see the real Truth.

My grandmother was a devout Catholic, but for some reason felt compelled to read the Bible. This is very unusual for a Catholic as the RCC discourages Bible reading. Towards the end of her life she was very immobile and could not leave the house and spent more time in her Bible. My uncle still has her Bible and she would underline passages of interest. I did not see her much in her last few years since I lived in another state, but my uncle is certain that she was saved before she passed away. Her fervor for the RCC seemed to fade away. I hope my uncle is right about her, but so many family members are still ensnared in the false web of the RCC.

 

[SarahRose]

I didn’t know that Catholics are discouraged from reading the Bible. That’s really sad

 

[SkyRider]

I didn’t know that Catholics are discouraged from reading the Bible. That’s really sad

If one does read the Bible, it has to be filtered through them to get the proper interpretation of the passages, as it can be ‘too confusing’ to glean the right meaning of the verses. It is all about control with them.

 

[Jaybird]

Check this excerpt out from an article and a website about the RCC and the Bible:

The following is excerpted from an article by David Cloud entitled, "The KJV and the Latin Vulgate".

The Council of Trent (1545-1564) placed the Bible on its list of prohibited books, and forbade any person to read the Bible without a license from a Roman Catholic bishop or inquisitor. The Council added these words: "That if any one shall dare to read or keep in his possession that book, without such a license, he shall not receive absolution till he has given it up to his ordinary."
Rome's attempt to keep the Bible from men has continued to recent times. Pope Pius VII (1800-1823) denounced the Bible Society and expressed shock at the circulation of the Scriptures. Pius VII said, "It is evidence from experience, that the holy Scriptures, when circulated in the vulgar tongue, have, through the temerity of men, produced more harm than benefit." Pope Leo XII called the Protestant Bible the "Gospel of the Devil" in an encyclical letter of 1824. Pope Gregory XVI (1831-1846) railed "against the publication, distribution, reading, and possession of books of the holy Scriptures translated into the vulgar tongue." Pope Leo XII, in January 1850, condemned the Bible Societies and admitted the fact that the distribution of Scripture has "long been condemned by the holy chair."

Dear Catholic friend, why do you think Rome prohibited Catholics, and others, from reading the Bible? Why do you think they killed over 50 million people and called them heretics for reading and believing the Holy Scriptures? Why did Pope Pius VII say that the Bible causes men more harm than benefit? Why would God's word cause harm? The Devil and these fake religious leaders know that if you read the Bible with the intention of learning the truth, you will leave the false for what is true.

Over hundreds of years, the Catholic religion, headed by the popes, did unimaginable cruelties to Bible-believers. They were burned, tortures, imprisoned, banished, etc. because they would only believe the Bible. Nice guys, huh?

 

[Bohdan]

Ex-Catholic here. Technically they are not praying to Mary, but asking her to pray for them.

Not actual idolatry, but still very unbiblical.
The reason it's wrong is Christ alone is our mediator, not his mother or any other saint.

 

[SarahRose]

Wow…

It makes sense though, because if they read the Bible without the catholic lens they’d see that a lot of what they do isn’t right…

Going to pray for our catholic friends. Thank you Jaybird and SkyRider for the insight.

 

[SkyRider]

Ex-Catholic here. Technically they are not praying to Mary, but asking her to pray for them.

Not actual idolatry, but still very unbiblical.
The reason it's wrong is Christ alone is our mediator, not his mother or any other saint.

Besides worshipping the Eucharist, I don't see what would constitute a greater example of idolatry than the Catholic elevation and devotion to “Mary”. I, as also an ex-Catholic, would have to call you out on that. There aren’t too many Roman Catholic households that do not have a figurine of the “Mother of God” or at least rosary beads in their houses, all for the exclusive purpose of lifting her up, praying to her and placing her before God.

 

[SkyRider]

Idolatry: the worship of idols; extreme admiration, love, or reverence for something or someone.

Hard to fathom how what they do with their “Mary” would not be considered idolatry by the definition above. Not only do they break the second commandment of having graven images of her in their homes, cars, shrines, churches (Exodus 20:4) but they also come close to breaking the first commandment also by putting her before God in their worship, devotion and, yes, praying to her. The current pope and others - like John Paul II - have dedicated themselves to her in their leadership of the RCC.

 

[Xenosjeff]

Simply put, if your trying to spiritually communicate with someone other than Jesus then you are in violation of Gods rules in Deuteronomy. All the fancy-pants theology in Rome can't splain that away.
We are not under "the" law but the fundamental and essential guidelines explained throughout the old testament are still valid and cannot be ignored.

Christ did not do away with the law. He fulfilled it through His sacrifice. There isn't any way to co-mingle Romanist fantasies with the absolutes of God. Idolatry is Idolatry, murder is murder, once for all is once for all TIME. The house of cards that is Catholicism cannot stand by God's Word.

Any Catholic truly understanding the simple truths of the reality shown by scripture will have to answer for ignoring it. Many people throughout history have been a true witness to God's revealed messages through His word. Entire books chronicle the martyrdom of saints who paid for their witness to the truth. Rome spilled Christian blood because Christian people simply read a Bible and believed in the spirit revealed truth of His Word.

Rome has been trying to suppress the Word of God for over 1500 years. From Constantine to Francis there has been a constant struggle to integrate the thoughts of corrupted men into a religious Frankenstein that is now more dead than alive. Rome's influence upon the Jewish reality of all scripture has been devastating. Because of Rome, people can no longer see what baptism means. Because of Rome, faith by grace now means salvation by performing rituals that earn grace. Because of Rome, a billion catholic people perform a ritual that in it's design is a red line heresy to any Jew. Eat my flesh is not literal, it spiritual. Telling an observant Jew to commit the sin of cannibalism to fulfill God's will is a non starter. Even the suggestion of turning the wafer into flesh would have got you instantly stoned in first century Israel. Rome's desecration of the Word has the first intention of offending any Jew who may look at the claims of Christianity. What a Jew would see instantly is the obvious and contrary elements mandated by the syncrotistic and gradual corruption built into the Romanist system. "To the Jew first and also to the Greek" must have piqued satan's ear.

I'll repeat this just to be clear. Roman Catholicism is a false path. It has been a deceptive and evil influence on the propagation of the truth. Their claims of authority are fictitious and based upon blatantly stupid lies. Rome has been lying and murdering from it's creation by ignorant and power hungry fools. Rome is a tool of Satan to lead the weak into hell inch by inch, lie by lie, gradually turning away from the light and obscuring the path back to God. Get out while you still can. RUN!

Jeff

 

[Armor of Light]

How Catholics see Mary and how Christians view her, scripturally., from this RF link https://www.raptureforums.com/forum...ism-compared-to-biblical-christianity.137214/

MARY OF THE BIBLE AND THE MARY OF CATHOLICISM
(the following information is excerpted from T.A. McMahon’s article entitled Mary Who?):
“…The only trustworthy account of Mary is found in the Scriptures where information is presented by those who knew her
personally and, more importantly, whose writings were under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Fewer than 90 Bible verses
address the life of Mary. In them we find a wonderful humble servant of the Lord who rejoices in Him as her Savior (Lk 1:
47)… Mary’s ministry was simply the birth and nurturing of the child Jesus. Once He reached adulthood, she played no
influential part in His earthly service. It’s at the wedding feast of Cana, which began the public ministry of Jesus, that her last
words are recorded. Fittingly, she tells the servants, ‘ Whatsoever He saith unto you, do it’ (Jn 2:5)… Mary then fades into the
background.
Search the Scriptures as you will and you will find no leadership role for Mary among the Apostles. She taught no doctrine.
We never hear of the Apostles seeking her out for counsel. Other than the gospels, Mary is mentioned only once in the New
Testament, where the Book of Acts tells us of her simple participation in a prayer meeting along with her sons. The teaching
that Mary was a perpetual virgin is contradicted by many verses (Mt 12:46; Mk 6:3; Jn 7: 3,5; 1Cor 9:5; Gal 1:19; Ps
69:8,etc.)…The Apostle Peter, a contemporary of Mary and regarded by Catholics as the first pope, wrote nothing about her.
The Apostle Paul…made no mention of the alleged importance of devotions or reparations to Mary…The Apostle John, who
wrote the last book of the Bible and was given the care of Mary by Jesus Himself, says nothing about venerating her…Although
mankind is being drawn into every kind of spiritual deception in the last days before the return of Jesus, it is especially sad that
the real mother of Jesus, the remarkable ‘handmaiden of the Lord’ (Lk 1:38) is so terribly misrepresented, thereby drawing
millions away from her Son…
(Conversely), the Mary of Catholicism was immaculately conceived, the Mother of God, a perpetual virgin, Mediatrix between
God and man, and the Queen of Heaven…The ‘Mary’ who spoke to Father Gobbi, the founder of the Marian Movement of
more than 100,000 priests, declared, ‘Each of my statues is a sign of a presence of mine and reminds you of your heavenly
Mother. Therefore it must be honored and put in places of greater veneration…’
Consider Our Lady of Fatima: (she said) ‘Say the Rosary every day to obtain peace for the world…God wishes to establish in
the world the devotion to My immaculate heart. If people do what I tell you, many souls will be saved and there will be peace.’
This is not the humble and submissive Mary of the Bible. The rosary invokes prayers to Mary ten times for every one for the
Lord; Jesus is the Prince of Peace; only Christ’s once-for-all sacrifice saves souls from hell; neither is Mary’s heart immaculate,
nor are we to be spiritually devoted to anyone other than our Lord and Savior” (excerpts ended).
The Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is NOT the Christian doctrine which states that Jesus was born without
sin. Rather, it states that Mary was born free of any sin: “O, Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to
thee.” The prayer specifically presents her as intercessor. In addition, Catholics believe that as a special privilege Mary was
preserved from all sin, even venial sin*. Catholics also hold to the doctrine that Mary, after her death, was “assumpted” bodily
into heaven and, therefore, never saw corruption.. Both the Feast of the Assumption and the Immaculate Conception are
“holydays of obligation” in the Catholic Church and require Catholics to attend a Mass on those days under penalty of
“mortal”* sin.
One of the titles the Catholic Church gives Mary is “Queen of Heaven.” In chapters 7:18 and 44:19 Jeremiah actually speaks of
the people of Israel making offerings to a “queen of heaven.” Yet a simple reading of the chapters shows that God was
exceedingly angry because of this heathen worship.
There is also a mixing of what is Biblical and what is Catholic in the “Hail Mary,” the prayer used repeatedly in the rosary. It
states: “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art thou among women…” This is actually found in Luke 1:28.
However, the rest of the prayer is not Biblical. It states “…Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the
hour of our death. Amen.” Mary is “holy” only as she is holy in Jesus. She was not the mother of God, but of the child Jesus -
stating it as the Catholic Church does confers upon her a title that denotes her superiority over Jesus. She cannot pray for us
sinners because she herself was a sinner, and because only Jesus “ever liveth to make intercession for us” (Heb 7:25).

 

[Jaybird]

Simply put, if your trying to spiritually communicate with someone other than Jesus then you are in violation of Gods rules in Deuteronomy. All the fancy-pants theology in Rome can't splain that away.
We are not under "the" law but the fundamental and essential guidelines explained throughout the old testament are still valid and cannot be ignored.

Christ did not do away with the law. He fulfilled it through His sacrifice. There isn't any way to co-mingle Romanist fantasies with the absolutes of God. Idolatry is Idolatry, murder is murder, once for all is once for all TIME. The house of cards that is Catholicism cannot stand by God's Word.

Any Catholic truly understanding the simple truths of the reality shown by scripture will have to answer for ignoring it. Many people throughout history have been a true witness to God's revealed messages through His word. Entire books chronicle the martyrdom of saints who paid for their witness to the truth. Rome spilled Christian blood because Christian people simply read a Bible and believed in the spirit revealed truth of His Word.

Rome has been trying to suppress the Word of God for over 1500 years. From Constantine to Francis there has been a constant struggle to integrate the thoughts of corrupted men into a religious Frankenstein that is now more dead than alive. Rome's influence upon the Jewish reality of all scripture has been devastating. Because of Rome, people can no longer see what baptism means. Because of Rome, faith by grace now means salvation by performing rituals that earn grace. Because of Rome, a billion catholic people perform a ritual that in it's design is a red line heresy to any Jew. Eat my flesh is not literal, it spiritual. Telling an observant Jew to commit the sin of cannibalism to fulfill God's will is a non starter. Even the suggestion of turning the wafer into flesh would have got you instantly stoned in first century Israel. Rome's desecration of the Word has the first intention of offending any Jew who may look at the claims of Christianity. What a Jew would see instantly is the obvious and contrary elements mandated by the syncrotistic and gradual corruption built into the Romanist system. "To the Jew first and also to the Greek" must have piqued satan's ear.

I'll repeat this just to be clear. Roman Catholicism is a false path. It has been a deceptive and evil influence on the propagation of the truth. Their claims of authority are fictitious and based upon blatantly stupid lies. Rome has been lying and murdering from it's creation by ignorant and power hungry fools. Rome is a tool of Satan to lead the weak into hell inch by inch, lie by lie, gradually turning away from the light and obscuring the path back to God. Get out while you still can. RUN!

Jeff

Very well stated! A horrible "religion" as you say akin to Frankenstein. Proof positive that the Scriptures are spiritually discerned as the 1.2 billion people who call themselves Catholic are blind as a bat. Although there may be some who hopefully know the truth!

 

[SkyRider]

I think the time of sugar coating what the RCC is, is well past. The Tribulation hour is soon upon us and beyond that, eternity awaits. Many Catholic souls hang in the balance. Christ said that the gates of Hell will not prevail against His true Church, so Hell produced its own church.

Roman Catholicism is a satanic cult. It’s real pope is Lucifer. The one’s elected by a college of cardinals are just his hand puppets, designed to look pious but are manipulated by him to carry out his nefarious agenda and to doom souls to Hell.

Jesus even warned of their eventual appearing in His Sermon on the Mount:

“15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them”

We know and can see what fruit the Roman Catholic religion has produced over the centuries: a false gospel, a false Christ, in the form of a wafer, and a false “Mary”. The also have repeatedly twisted scripture and produced a false plan of salvation. They produced a fictitious place of purging leftover sins called Purgatory, needed only because Jesus was incapable of covering the cost of all sins. They don't waste an opportunity to discredit Christ and His sacrifice on the cross. Who else but Satan can be responsible for the myriad of scriptural diversions that they have invented and keep producing in order to trip up would-be Christians and send them off instead to a fiery eternity?

Lucifer even uses “Marian apparitions” to further along his evil deceptions. I was reading up last week about some of those sightings and what this entity was telling the local populace when this “angel of light” / “Mary” would appear. In numerous instances, it directed the locals to build shrines on the spot “for the conversion of sinners”. In other occurrences, Satan would use this diabolical deception to back up proclamations that he had his puppet popes previously declare. At one, he had this “Blessed Virgin” declare that it was the “Immaculate Conception”, when just a few years earlier, his earthly pope had made the same pronouncement. The Immaculate Conception is the totally unscriptural teaching that Mary was conceived without sin, that would allow her to begin her lifelong sinless existence, as Rome/Satan contends. Totally bogus as Scripture teaches that “ALL have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God”. But, in this clever way, the enemy pulls out all stops when it comes to beguiling people and has many tools to use to blind the people from the truth of Christ's true saving plan of salvation.

Lucifer's “Queen of Heaven” / “Mother of God” is just another cruel hoax and a continuation of the Babylonian pagan diety designed to trip up the masses, but now appears in a “Mary” costume.

Sadly, this ruse is gobbled up and accepted by a scripturally illiterate crowd, and they won't know the truth until that split second that they enter eternity and then fully realize that they have been duped.

 

[heisable2]

RCC has a form of godliness (pretends to follow Jesus) but denies the power thereof.

It KEEPS ppl from salvation in Christ Jesus...ppl are still not encouraged to read the Bible...was forbidden. Cath ppl, by obeying this, and dont read their Bibles, admit what the church leaders give as reason...ppl are too dumb to understand the Bible. Only a pedo priest can interperet it.

This blasphemes the Holy Spirit. It is He Who interperets the Word for believers. The RCC prevents and discourages ppl from going to Jesus, from asking the Holy Spirit to teach them.

Even without all the demonic rituals, many taken from the pagans, (praying to dead ppl, prayer beads, etc) the RCC is a wolf pretending to be the true church. If ya prevent ppl from reading the Bible....they'll never find out that it is an unbiblical entity.

The chief wolf, pope, who is supposed to be infallable...ppl still believe this lie...has said things like having a relationship with Jesus is dangerous....for him, I am sure...etc

If ppl dont question leaders, churches, what they teach in school, get second opinions medically, etc....then My ppl perish for lack of knowledge.

Sadly, many RCC members may find themselves in hell, thinking that they are in temporary purgatory...hoping the wealth they left behind to pay for masses for their soul will ger them out of purgatory sooner than later.

No one at the judgement will have an excuse. God gave us brains to research with. When we ask Him for truth, He WILL show us. BUT we have to seek him...then He gives us wisdom. Jer 33:3, Jer 29

I just read on the web that the pope doesn't want Catholics to pray to Jesus or asking Jesus for help or for forgiveness. The person needs to go to the Pope. Did I read this wrong because this sounds terrible. I don't have a lot of Hope in this current pope and I think that he is spreading a lot of lies and untruths to his flock

 

[Jaybird]

I did a search on the internet and what I understood the Pope to say that if you can't find a priest to forgive your sins (they believe in that) then you should ask Jesus (first piece of truth I have head from the RCC). However, He recently said this:

Pope Francis is well documented to have an especially accursed soteriology, being a proponent of Universal Salvation. Several years ago he wrote an open letter to Eugenio Scalfari, the founder of La Repubblica newspaper, where he stated that so long as non-believers followed their conscience, they would be forgiven by God.

As recently as last year, during the April 15, 2018 mass in Rome, Francis stated that a young child’s deceased father was in heaven, despite that father being an avowed atheist, because he was a “good man” for having his children baptized.

Every once in a while they spout a tiny little bit of truth, but it hardly overcomes the overwhelming apostasy.

 

[Everlasting Life]

If one does read the Bible, it has to be filtered through them to get the proper interpretation of the passages, as it can be ‘too confusing’ to glean the right meaning of the verses. It is all about control with them.

Yeah! That one is a real head scratcher to me, especially since the bible is actually quite clear and plain in many parts, with the more difficult parts becoming clear when other parts of the bible fill in the gaps, so to speak.



I was recently talking with some RCC adherents and what you said SkyRider is exactly what I was told, one had to go to 'experts' to get the proper interpretation. Talk about completely blocking people direct access to God and His clear Word!


As I was engaging it came to me to speak about the Apostle Paul and how he positively commended the Bereans for double checking what Paul was teaching with.........SCRIPTURE! They themselves, sat down, OPENED SCRIPTURES for themselves and read them with their very own own eyeballs. to confirm if Paul was just feeding them a bunch of nonsense or not. Paul, the big honcho of the Church at the time gave them big kudos for doing this. There was no chastising them for reading the scriptures and double checking. He didn't tell them that he needed to interpret the scriptures for them (they had brains in their noggins and the Holy Spirit was probably there helping them to connect the dots). In fact that's how I was saved, double checking people's words with God's Word.

This is the Apostle Paul, mind you, the biggest go to guy who taught further about God and the Church at the time. I shared how Paul said that these people were open minded for doing so. Additionally, the author of Acts seemed to think this was good too as he spoke well of this and the reader the letter was addressed to would certainly be encouraged by this notation of the Bereans searching scripture themselves to also do the same himself.

It's interesting that Paul in his important teachings used copious amounts of scripture, from the bible (not some supposed 'expert') to teach and build up the Church. I would think that's the example to be followed. In fact Paul encouraged others to teach as he did, utilizing....not other men's words but God's words directly, scripture....the bible (that's not to say Godly people's words shouldn't be used, but they should line up with the bible):



Hold on to the pattern of wholesome teaching you learned from me—a pattern shaped by the faith and love that you have in Christ Jesus.

2 Tim 1:12-14

That pattern was to dive into scripture to show how it all pointed to Jesus Christ, his payment for our sins and our eternal life through repentance and faith in Him. Period.

And Peter also support how Paul was teaching as well:

And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him— speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.

2 Peter 3:15-16


At any rate, there was a continual going around and around about interpretations, traditions, Mary, beads and quoting of this or that 'saint' (not to mention that in the bible anyone who's of Christ is called a saint). You are so right SkyRider about the constant pushing to seek man's interpretation.

I realized that I needed to bow out as I'd done all that I could to share scripture showing how they point to Jesus Christ as the preeminent point of scripture, how one can be saved through faith in Him alone and nothing else. Anything beyond was going to get into ceaseless arguing that would go no where. But, I'm praying for these people along with others here that God in His mercy would remove this massive religious burden that's been placed on people unnecessarily and draw them into the freedom of Jesus Christ through faith in Him.

And, I'm so glad to have you brothers and sisters in Christ who've come out of this place. It's hard to do so but I know it's a blessing (I know this as one who came out of a cult myself).

 

[Jaybird]

We can praise God in that he let his light shine on us and opened our eyes to the truth of his Word. He really can make the blind see as all of us who have been in a cult can attest to!

 

[Armor of Light]

And, I'm so glad to have you brothers and sisters in Christ who've come out of this place. It's hard to do so but I know it's a blessing (I know this as one who came out of a cult myself).

It is a miracle of God to be set free from the RCC mess .

 

[SkyRider]

Yeah! That one is a real head scratcher to me, especially since the bible is actually quite clear and plain in many parts, with the more difficult parts becoming clear when other parts of the bible fill in the gaps, so to speak.



I was recently talking with some RCC adherents and what you said SkyRider is exactly what I was told, one had to go to 'experts' to get the proper interpretation. Talk about completely blocking people direct access to God and His clear Word!


As I was engaging it came to me to speak about the Apostle Paul and how he positively commended the Bereans for double checking what Paul was teaching with.........SCRIPTURE! They themselves, sat down, OPENED SCRIPTURES for themselves and read them with their very own own eyeballs. to confirm if Paul was just feeding them a bunch of nonsense or not. Paul, the big honcho of the Church at the time gave them big kudos for doing this. There was no chastising them for reading the scriptures and double checking. He didn't tell them that he needed to interpret the scriptures for them (they had brains in their noggins and the Holy Spirit was probably there helping them to connect the dots). In fact that's how I was saved, double checking people's words with God's Word.

This is the Apostle Paul, mind you, the biggest go to guy who taught further about God and the Church at the time. I shared how Paul said that these people were open minded for doing so. Additionally, the author of Acts seemed to think this was good too as he spoke well of this and the reader the letter was addressed to would certainly be encouraged by this notation of the Bereans searching scripture themselves to also do the same himself.

It's interesting that Paul in his important teachings used copious amounts of scripture, from the bible (not some supposed 'expert') to teach and build up the Church. I would think that's the example to be followed. In fact Paul encouraged others to teach as he did, utilizing....not other men's words but God's words directly, scripture....the bible (that's not to say Godly people's words shouldn't be used, but they should line up with the bible):



Hold on to the pattern of wholesome teaching you learned from me—a pattern shaped by the faith and love that you have in Christ Jesus.

2 Tim 1:12-14

That pattern was to dive into scripture to show how it all pointed to Jesus Christ, his payment for our sins and our eternal life through repentance and faith in Him. Period.

And Peter also support how Paul was teaching as well:

And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him— speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.

2 Peter 3:15-16


At any rate, there was a continual going around and around about interpretations, traditions, Mary, beads and quoting of this or that 'saint' (not to mention that in the bible anyone who's of Christ is called a saint). You are so right SkyRider about the constant pushing to seek man's interpretation.

I realized that I needed to bow out as I'd done all that I could to share scripture showing how they point to Jesus Christ as the preeminent point of scripture, how one can be saved through faith in Him alone and nothing else. Anything beyond was going to get into ceaseless arguing that would go no where. But, I'm praying for these people along with others here that God in His mercy would remove this massive religious burden that's been placed on people unnecessarily and draw them into the freedom of Jesus Christ through faith in Him.

And, I'm so glad to have you brothers and sisters in Christ who've come out of this place. It's hard to do so but I know it's a blessing (I know this as one who came out of a cult myself).

You are spot on. A classic sign of an organization being a cult is that its members must follow what that group's leadership define biblical verses to mean.

Staying with teachings about Mary: the Bible tells us she had other children. Rome contends the verses about Jesus’ half siblings were cousins. The Bible tells us that Mary only remained a virgin until after the birth of Jesus; Rome teaches that she remained a virgin. The RCC tells their followers that Mary was sinless; scripture proclaims that all have sinned. Jesus told His followers to pray to God only; the papacy has their adherents praying to “Mary” and other passed on saints. Rome has its believers thinking that “Mary” is the “Mother of God”, the “Queen of Heaven” and can lessen one's time in a false place called Purgatory - none of which is found in God's Word.

Rome continually echoes Satan's words in Genesis to trip people up: “Has God said…..?”. They claim to have given us the Bible yet they twist the true meaning of the verses to conform to their own diabolical beliefs. Jesus gives us His words to follow to have life. Rome contorts scripture, provides their own plan of salvation through ritualistic works and promotes a false plan of redemption. The “Bible” they conjure up has no resemblance to the true Word of God. They lie to their followers.

Jesus, when refuting Satan in the wilderness, after the 40 day period of fasting, told the devil on three separate occasions, “It is written”. That was all that was needed to rebuff the attempts of the enemy to get Jesus to fall to a deceptive agenda.

Rome says, in essence, “It is not written”.

 

[Everlasting Life]

You are spot on. A classic sign of an organization being a cult is that its members must follow what that group's leadership define biblical verses to mean.

Staying with teachings about Mary: the Bible tells us she had other children. Rome contends the verses about Jesus’ half siblings were cousins. The Bible tells us that Mary only remained a virgin until after the birth of Jesus; Rome teaches that she remained a virgin. The RCC tells their followers that Mary was sinless; scripture proclaims that all have sinned. Jesus told His followers to pray to God only; the papacy has their adherents praying to “Mary” and other passed on saints. Rome has its believers thinking that “Mary” is the “Mother of God”, the “Queen of Heaven” and can lessen one's time in a false place called Purgatory - none of which is found in God's Word.

Rome continually echoes Satan's words in Genesis to trip people up: “Has God said…..?”. They claim to have given us the Bible yet they twist the true meaning of the verses to conform to their own diabolical beliefs. Jesus gives us His words to follow to have life. Rome contorts scripture, provides their own plan of salvation through ritualistic works and promotes a false plan of redemption. The “Bible” they conjure up has no resemblance to the true Word of God. They lie to their followers.

Jesus, when refuting Satan in the wilderness, after the 40 day period of fasting, told the devil on three separate occasions, “It is written”. That was all that was needed to rebuff the attempts of the enemy to get Jesus to fall to a deceptive agenda.

Rome says, in essence, “It is not written”.

Very well said and great contending for the faith!!

In fact this whole thread is filled with very Godly, wise, biblical, true and life saving words!

I've really appreciated a church that I attended that did an excellent job of simply preaching the Word, but strategically in a way that countered these and other false teachings directly.....allowing and giving room for individuals to respond themselves to the Holy Spirit using God's Word to bring light into the mind and heart. My observation was that it kept defenses down and hearts open to the Gospel and the truth of the bible.

So, I tried to follow that example in sharing scripture strategically (and it seemed that God brought them to my attention) hoping and praying that God would use that for saving souls. As Jaybird said:

We can praise God in that he let his light shine on us and opened our eyes to the truth of his Word. He really can make the blind see as all of us who have been in a cult can attest to!

Yes, it really is God's work through the Holy Spirit to open eyes to His truth. Thanks for that reminder Jaybird and praise God that He's still doing this.

It is a miracle of God to be set free from the RCC mess .

Amen!! There is a wonderful joy in the Lord after coming out of such an entity, such freedom and understanding of the incredible plans God has for His precious church!