Catholics praying to Mary and the saints yet still claim to be Christians

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
I was partly raised Catholic. My mother was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school. She even has a Catholic Bible. I used to like going through it and looking at the pictures. We went to mass every Sunday and I never understood any of it. The priest never taught us anything. It was all just rituals. I never took Communion but my mother always did. The priest would say something or sing something, we would say or sing something back at him.

The Mass is a very ritualistic, rote service. They stick to the same formula at every one. The priest will utter a few phrases and the congregation replies in the same rote manner. Very boring and lifeless service. A lot of Catholics, especially younger ones become “lapsed” Catholics and stop going to Mass because of the utter repetitiveness of it. I was one of them. Unfortunately, it turns off a lot of people from having anything to do with being a Christian and would rather pursue worldly things. Sure, they may still go to an Easter or Christmas service just to keep that connection with God intact, but overall, all interest gets lost in trying to follow Christ. Even the idea of a future in Heaven is not that exciting, thinking that our time there would be one long, boring Catholic mass. Why get enthused about that?

I can remember as a kid getting in trouble with my parents - strict Catholics - when I was attending Catholic grade school, about the boringness of the service. We were given these handouts in class with animated depictions displaying different parts of the mass in them. I think they were propaganda pieces (my take on it) designed for the children and the parents to see once we took them home about how wonderful the Mass was and how privileged we Catholics were to take part in it. Well, I had drawn balloons above the depictions of the priest doing the Mass and put my own words into the balloons to convey my thoughts about the service: “Okay people, now it is time to sit, kneel, stand, sit, kneel, stand for the next hour”; “Join with me as we pray in Latin” ( back when they were still using Latin in the Mass) and other nonsensical captions to convey my thoughts on the rote service. Needless to say, when my parents saw that, they were not amused.

We used to as kids, when we lived in Long Beach, CA, took trips down to San Diego to visit my grandmother and cousins, maybe a few times a year. I don't remember doing this, but both my mother and youngest sister recalled to me a couple of years ago while we were reminiscing about the “olden” times, that on one of those trips, I had a rolled up pack of Necco wafers and I was pretending that they were communion wafers. I would pass them out, but before I gave one away to my four other siblings, I would say the priest's words “The Body of Christ”, and they would have to say “Amen” - just like in a Catholic mass, before they received one. The kids were tickled, I guess ( again I don't remember that episode) but obviously my dad was infuriated that I was mimicking one of the phases of the Mass. No brownie points that day with him.

One last recollection of those Catholic grade school years. I was doing the “altar boy” thing for about a year, that would allow me to get out of class for about an hour and assist the priest in doing the daily Mass. I know, now the altar boy term sounds like something depicted in old movies about vestal virgins being used to appease the wrath of angry gods and make life cool again for the local citizenry. “Time to toss in the fire an altar boy!”.

We had a very stern head priest at our parish church and school. Always seemed to have a scowl on his face. An occasional smile that would visit his face seemed so out of place. I was doing the altar boy thing with him one day when our class came over for a daily mass. It was time to assist him for the Eucharist service. My responsibility during this sacrament was to hold the golden platen (I think it was called) under the recipient's chin, in case the wafer fell out of the priest's hand or it dropped from the receiver's mouth. Anyway, my “girlfriend” was next to receive one - we were always teasing each other and clowning around with each other - so when the time came for her to receive the “host”, I hit her Adam's Apple with the platen. she slightly laughed and then I suddenly remembered which priest I was standing next to - Father Stern. I quickly shot a glance at his face and he was burning holes through me with his glare. I quickly found myself on the receiving end of the altar boy unemployment line! At least he waited until the service was over to dole out his punishment. Now THAT recollection, I will never forget. It still cracks me up though because I was always pranking that girl and loving it. She did too.
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
The Mass is a very ritualistic, rote service. They stick to the same formula at every one. The priest will utter a few phrases and the congregation replies in the same rote manner. Very boring and lifeless service. A lot of Catholics, especially younger ones become “lapsed” Catholics and stop going to Mass because of the utter repetitiveness of it. I was one of them. Unfortunately, it turns off a lot of people from having anything to do with being a Christian and would rather pursue worldly things. Sure, they may still go to an Easter or Christmas service just to keep that connection with God intact, but overall, all interest gets lost in trying to follow Christ. Even the idea of a future in Heaven is not that exciting, thinking that our time there would be one long, boring Catholic mass. Why get enthused about that?

I can remember as a kid getting in trouble with my parents - strict Catholics - when I was attending Catholic grade school, about the boringness of the service. We were given these handouts in class with animated depictions displaying different parts of the mass in them. I think they were propaganda pieces (my take on it) designed for the children and the parents to see once we took them home about how wonderful the Mass was and how privileged we Catholics were to take part in it. Well, I had drawn balloons above the depictions of the priest doing the Mass and put my own words into the balloons to convey my thoughts about the service: “Okay people, now it is time to sit, kneel, stand, sit, kneel, stand for the next hour”; “Join with me as we pray in Latin” ( back when they were still using Latin in the Mass) and other nonsensical captions to convey my thoughts on the rote service. Needless to say, when my parents saw that, they were not amused.

We used to as kids, when we lived in Long Beach, CA, took trips down to San Diego to visit my grandmother and cousins, maybe a few times a year. I don't remember doing this, but both my mother and youngest sister recalled to me a couple of years ago while we were reminiscing about the “olden” times, that on one of those trips, I had a rolled up pack of Necco wafers and I was pretending that they were communion wafers. I would pass them out, but before I gave one away to my four other siblings, I would say the priest's words “The Body of Christ”, and they would have to say “Amen” - just like in a Catholic mass, before they received one. The kids were tickled, I guess ( again I don't remember that episode) but obviously my dad was infuriated that I was mimicking one of the phases of the Mass. No brownie points that day with him.

One last recollection of those Catholic grade school years. I was doing the “altar boy” thing for about a year, that would allow me to get out of class for about an hour and assist the priest in doing the daily Mass. I know, now the altar boy term sounds like something depicted in old movies about vestal virgins being used to appease the wrath of angry gods and make life cool again for the local citizenry. “Time to toss in the fire an altar boy!”.

We had a very stern head priest at our parish church and school. Always seemed to have a scowl on his face. An occasional smile that would visit his face seemed so out of place. I was doing the altar boy thing with him one day when our class came over for a daily mass. It was time to assist him for the Eucharist service. My responsibility during this sacrament was to hold the golden platen (I think it was called) under the recipient's chin, in case the wafer fell out of the priest's hand or it dropped from the receiver's mouth. Anyway, my “girlfriend” was next to receive one - we were always teasing each other and clowning around with each other - so when the time came for her to receive the “host”, I hit her Adam's Apple with the platen. she slightly laughed and then I suddenly remembered which priest I was standing next to - Father Stern. I quickly shot a glance at his face and he was burning holes through me with his glare. I quickly found myself on the receiving end of the altar boy unemployment line! At least he waited until the service was over to dole out his punishment. Now THAT recollection, I will never forget. It still cracks me up though because I was always pranking that girl and loving it. She did too.
Awesome share, ty for the laughs!!! My sibs n I played church too, I made communion with peantubutter and Quick mixed together n chilled them. Tasted much better than the church wafers, lol. I am sure my mother would've decried "blasphemy" if she knew we did that lol. Of course my older bro was the priest. One of my little bros was the greeter/handed out bulletins that we made up lol
 

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
Awesome share, ty for the laughs!!! My sibs n I played church too, I made communion with peantubutter and Quick mixed together n chilled them. Tasted much better than the church wafers, lol. I am sure my mother would've decried "blasphemy" if she knew we did that lol. Of course my older bro was the priest. One of my little bros was the greeter/handed out bulletins that we made up lol
You gotta poke fun at stuff like that, right?
 

Mama Bug

Well-Known Member
I am sorry about your uncle! I didnt know that other denominations believed in Purgatory.

I connected to your post...I was raised strict RCC, got saved in college n followed my boyfriend into the AG church...was a shock at first from going to Catholic mass to seeing ppl "slain in the Spirit"...the speaking in tongues freaked me out til I studied the Bible. These days, I prefer line by line Bible teaching. Interesting that you were exposed to Cath n AG!

Saddest funerals to me are Cath ones...no one is sure if the deceased is in Heaven. But they CAN be sure...I pray that ppl find Jesus n read their Bibles!!
I freaked out too when my dad got slain in the Spirit. I thought the pastor had knocked him down or something. The speaking in tongues didn’t freak me out as much but as a kid I didn’t understand it either. Luckily my dad explained things to me. There were a few occasions that I would hear something in church and would ask him about it afterwards.

I worry that I’ll never see my uncle or my maternal grandparents again. I also worry about my mother. She’s blind. I tried talking to her once but she was not receptive and was ready to argue. I shut it down. I knew I would get nowhere. She doesn’t get that being a “good person “ isn’t enough. If it was then Jesus wouldn’t have needed to die for our sins. God could’ve just said y’all be good, follow the Ten Commandments, and that’s good enough. But He didn’t say that and Jesus DID die for our sins so we wouldn’t have to pay the penalty which is death.
 

MapleLeaf

Well-Known Member
I haven't been to a Catholic mass since I went as a tourist to the mass at Westminister Abby in London, England. My friend and I only had a short while in the city and we realized the only way to squeeze it in was to go during a mass. And then we didn't have to pay either. I admit I fell asleep half way through. In my defense, we had come on an overnight flight and to beat jet lag we just moved forward with the day so we could get used to the new time zone. And we had spent the day at the British Museum and London Art Gallery. I was zonked. I was surprised they had us in folding chairs set up near the altar rather than in the official pews. Some of the hymns were nice. Others were weird so I didn't sing those. And the sermon itself was so pablum-let's-not-offend that I'm not sure it was even representative of a typical Catholic mass. Maybe it was. I don't know. I just found it weird to not see a Bible cracked open and hear about how to be "Nice".

I can't stand the praying to Mary. I am grateful the real Mary is in heaven and has no idea on how her name and reputation has been so utterly abused and used to deceive so many for thousands of years. But most false religions have some form of the divine feminine.
 

Annie

Be A Berean!
Dave Hunt has an excellent Question and Answer presentation that I watched for the first time online today outlining the differences between what a Catholic believes and how their beliefs differ from Biblical Christian beliefs. He does such a wonderful job of explaining things, I wish all Catholics would watch it.
 

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
It is a continuation of the Babylonian pagan worship system: they have a “Mother of God”; a “Queen of Heaven” that they pray to, worship (although they preposterously claim that they don't) and she can also lessen one's time in Purgatory, although apparently Christ or God cannot, she is a co- redeemer to them; they worship a sun-shaped wafer called the Eucharist; they eat their god during a communion service, have graven images in their houses of worship that they light candles before and pray to them, and in certain areas of the world, dress up these graven images of “Mary” and parade through streets with her, sometimes lining “her” path with flower petals.

I think she is referred to as Mystery Babylon for a reason. The RCC is a continuation of the Babylon system and at the time of John's scribing in approx 90 AD, the Roman Catholic false religion had not yet appeared - it was still a Mystery. She came about in the 5th century, and over the centuries, has morphed and become something so completely apostate to Christ's teachings, yet still to the unknowing world represents what a true Christian church should look like and has lured in millions into her clutches. It is a stroke of genius by the enemy to deceive the masses. Babylon was also a code name for Rome even back in the apostle's time.
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
My mom explained praying to Mary this way: she said (errantly) that its hard to ask Dad for things so we go to mom.

Sad that she never had a loving earthly dad...its probably why she feels this way. But for her to fear going straight to our Loving Father makes me sad for her. Yes, God is Just, but HE is the one we are to seek, worship, etc. Only the Father gives us good things, etc. Jesus is a gentle Shepherd...not waiting to punish us, but guiding us gently into His Truth n Way.

Sad for n praing for my misguided mother n all who fear God with a human fear, not with reverential fear. I think on Earth, it would break a loving father's heart to see his kids afraid to talk to Him. Doesnt make sense.
 

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
My mom explained praying to Mary this way: she said (errantly) that its hard to ask Dad for things so we go to mom.

Sad that she never had a loving earthly dad...its probably why she feels this way. But for her to fear going straight to our Loving Father makes me sad for her. Yes, God is Just, but HE is the one we are to seek, worship, etc. Only the Father gives us good things, etc. Jesus is a gentle Shepherd...not waiting to punish us, but guiding us gently into His Truth n Way.

Sad for n praing for my misguided mother n all who fear God with a human fear, not with reverential fear. I think on Earth, it would break a loving father's heart to see his kids afraid to talk to Him. Doesnt make sense.

Yes, I've heard that rationale before also: angry God/Christ, a soothing mother. Only - and they never consider this - she would have to be God as well, to be able to be everywhere to hear those requests, know at all times who is praying to her, and be all powerful enough to answer those prayers. It is a total fabrication and Jesus instructed His followers to pray to God the Father only - that includes Christ, since He and the Father are One. Jesus told us that if we love Him, we will follow His commandments. No other entity should come between us and the One who saved us.
 

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
Dave Hunt has an excellent Question and Answer presentation that I watched for the first time online today outlining the differences between what a Catholic believes and how their beliefs differ from Biblical Christian beliefs. He does such a wonderful job of explaining things, I wish all Catholics would watch it.

Yes, he was a brilliant guy. A lot of his materials - videos, articles and other sources of information - are still available on his old website The Berean Call. I used to partner with his ministry before I retired last year. But a wealth of info on his site.

He wouldn't pull any punches when he called out certain groups and individuals for their false beliefs. Because of that, he had many detractors. But he was so spot on and nailed them when what they proclaimed flew in the face of scriptural truth.
 

lightofmylife

Blessed Hope-Prepare To Fly!
Yes, he was a brilliant guy. A lot of his materials - videos, articles and other sources of information - are still available on his old website The Berean Call. I used to partner with his ministry before I retired last year. But a wealth of info on his site.

He wouldn't pull any punches when he called out certain groups and individuals for their false beliefs. Because of that, he had many detractors. But he was so spot on and nailed them when what they proclaimed flew in the face of scriptural truth.
I really respect pastors who do not back down from proclaiming the truth of Gods :bible word. I am not a fan of wishy washy people. Let your yes mean yes, and your no mean no. We are to be God pleasers not people pleasers.
 

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
Catholics have told me that Mary is different because she gave birth to God.
She would really have to be quite a remarkable woman to be able to pull off a feat like that: a created being who could go back eons before the Earth was formed, give birth to a God who had no beginning and will have no end and then also give birth to Jesus in His physical manifestation during her short time on Earth. Impressive….

Who then would be the Father of God? Unless she pulled it all off on her own? They'll never be able to re-seal that can of worms.
 

lightofmylife

Blessed Hope-Prepare To Fly!
She would really have to be quite a remarkable woman to be able to pull off a feat like that: a created being who could go back eons before the Earth was formed, give birth to a God who had no beginning and will have no end and then also give birth to Jesus in His physical manifestation during her short time on Earth. Impressive….

Who then would be the Father of God? Unless she pulled it all off on her own? They'll never be able to re-seal that can of worms.
In Genesis it doesn't say Mary was in the beginning as God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit. These are the Godhead no one else. Mary was:fish earthly mother only.
 

Jaybird

Well-Known Member
The Bible does say that only the spiritual person can discern spiritual truths.

John 5:19

"We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."

John 2:26-27:

"I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

When I was a Catholic the "spiritual light bulb" was not "on" in my head and I was blinded to the truth. Unfortunately, Catholics as a whole are spiritually blind. I look back now and wonder how I believed in all their crazy doctrines, but the only answer is spiritual blindness. I couldn't see the light. Thank God that now I see!
 

Xenosjeff

Well-Known Member
The Bible does say that only the spiritual person can discern spiritual truths.

John 5:19

"We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."

John 2:26-27:

"I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

When I was a Catholic the "spiritual light bulb" was not "on" in my head and I was blinded to the truth. Unfortunately, Catholics as a whole are spiritually blind. I look back now and wonder how I believed in all their crazy doctrines, but the only answer is spiritual blindness. I couldn't see the light. Thank God that now I see!
The Catholic church depends upon a crowd that has an attitude of submission to their claims of authority. A crowd that stays within the formula that had been devised over centuries and will not question that formula.
Many Catholics will read up on the common anti-protestant arguments without really getting to the point of truly understanding the problem with going outside of biblical doctrines. Reading only one side of an issue is essentially worthless. If all you can handle is pro Catholic propaganda it will be a tough job for anyone to sort out the truth.
The same goes for us here. It's a nasty experience to sort through the world of pro Catholic apologetics but it's also very enlightening. As an ex-catholic you learn firstly that you have excommunicated yourself from the true way and you are now an apostate bound for hell. You are then scorned as an idiot that swam the wrong way across the Tiber. How could you be so foolish as to reject the doctrines of Rome. After all, these doctrines are encased in theological cement with no way to correct even errors mistakenly made out of ignorance or syncrotism or politics or lust for power. To call them mistakes would also be a mistake because Rome added the no-mistake clause for the Pope when he speaks ex-cathedra (from the chair of Peter) and for the magisterium when they approve of the inclusion of doctrines as a body ( church councils). It also does away with the need to even think about reform because of the handy no-mistake clause.
Reading the apologetics of any of the Romanists does make you really appreciate biblically grounded teachers. Too often as you sort through the rationale and application of their arguments you'll get the opinions of multiple people who quote "Saint Whoever " or Pope Pointyhead to satisfy the grounding of their apologetic. To simply quote the bible alone is almost unheard of. You end up not knowing anything really enlightening that helps you reach a deeper understanding of God's Word. All you end up with is a fragment, a brief feelgood whiff of a truth somewhere out there that is supposed to somehow build you up. Only problem is that they can't get to the bottom of the issue. They cannot deal with the whole Word of God because it says things contrary to Rome's word. They need the three legged stool in order to stand.
Here's one to try out. Ask the question: Where in the Bible does it say you get to add to God's Word? They cannot answer this without referencing Rome's manufactured doctrines.
This is where they will pull the authority card. Peter... blah, blah. Blah! Pope Bigglesworth, cardinal Fang. Their authority is not grounded in historical fact nor is there any Bible only context available for them to establish the authority. They will try to shred Peter's declaration of Christ's identity to somehow mean that Peter is "the Rock". It's just dumb. Christ is the rock and Petros just stated that. Christ is the bedrock, the Petra. Words mean things and Rome can't fake it when they try the lame argument.

I'm sure that Miriam would be appalled.

Jeff
 

Jaybird

Well-Known Member
The Catholic church depends upon a crowd that has an attitude of submission to their claims of authority. A crowd that stays within the formula that had been devised over centuries and will not question that formula.
Many Catholics will read up on the common anti-protestant arguments without really getting to the point of truly understanding the problem with going outside of biblical doctrines. Reading only one side of an issue is essentially worthless. If all you can handle is pro Catholic propaganda it will be a tough job for anyone to sort out the truth.
The same goes for us here. It's a nasty experience to sort through the world of pro Catholic apologetics but it's also very enlightening. As an ex-catholic you learn firstly that you have excommunicated yourself from the true way and you are now an apostate bound for hell. You are then scorned as an idiot that swam the wrong way across the Tiber. How could you be so foolish as to reject the doctrines of Rome. After all, these doctrines are encased in theological cement with no way to correct even errors mistakenly made out of ignorance or syncrotism or politics or lust for power. To call them mistakes would also be a mistake because Rome added the no-mistake clause for the Pope when he speaks ex-cathedra (from the chair of Peter) and for the magisterium when they approve of the inclusion of doctrines as a body ( church councils). It also does away with the need to even think about reform because of the handy no-mistake clause.
Reading the apologetics of any of the Romanists does make you really appreciate biblically grounded teachers. Too often as you sort through the rationale and application of their arguments you'll get the opinions of multiple people who quote "Saint Whoever " or Pope Pointyhead to satisfy the grounding of their apologetic. To simply quote the bible alone is almost unheard of. You end up not knowing anything really enlightening that helps you reach a deeper understanding of God's Word. All you end up with is a fragment, a brief feelgood whiff of a truth somewhere out there that is supposed to somehow build you up. Only problem is that they can't get to the bottom of the issue. They cannot deal with the whole Word of God because it says things contrary to Rome's word. They need the three legged stool in order to stand.
Here's one to try out. Ask the question: Where in the Bible does it say you get to add to God's Word? They cannot answer this without referencing Rome's manufactured doctrines.
This is where they will pull the authority card. Peter... blah, blah. Blah! Pope Bigglesworth, cardinal Fang. Their authority is not grounded in historical fact nor is there any Bible only context available for them to establish the authority. They will try to shred Peter's declaration of Christ's identity to somehow mean that Peter is "the Rock". It's just dumb. Christ is the rock and Petros just stated that. Christ is the bedrock, the Petra. Words mean things and Rome can't fake it when they try the lame argument.

I'm sure that Miriam would be appalled

The Catholic church depends upon a crowd that has an attitude of submission to their claims of authority. A crowd that stays within the formula that had been devised over centuries and will not question that formula.
Many Catholics will read up on the common anti-protestant arguments without really getting to the point of truly understanding the problem with going outside of biblical doctrines. Reading only one side of an issue is essentially worthless. If all you can handle is pro Catholic propaganda it will be a tough job for anyone to sort out the truth.
The same goes for us here. It's a nasty experience to sort through the world of pro Catholic apologetics but it's also very enlightening. As an ex-catholic you learn firstly that you have excommunicated yourself from the true way and you are now an apostate bound for hell. You are then scorned as an idiot that swam the wrong way across the Tiber. How could you be so foolish as to reject the doctrines of Rome. After all, these doctrines are encased in theological cement with no way to correct even errors mistakenly made out of ignorance or syncrotism or politics or lust for power. To call them mistakes would also be a mistake because Rome added the no-mistake clause for the Pope when he speaks ex-cathedra (from the chair of Peter) and for the magisterium when they approve of the inclusion of doctrines as a body ( church councils). It also does away with the need to even think about reform because of the handy no-mistake clause.
Reading the apologetics of any of the Romanists does make you really appreciate biblically grounded teachers. Too often as you sort through the rationale and application of their arguments you'll get the opinions of multiple people who quote "Saint Whoever " or Pope Pointyhead to satisfy the grounding of their apologetic. To simply quote the bible alone is almost unheard of. You end up not knowing anything really enlightening that helps you reach a deeper understanding of God's Word. All you end up with is a fragment, a brief feelgood whiff of a truth somewhere out there that is supposed to somehow build you up. Only problem is that they can't get to the bottom of the issue. They cannot deal with the whole Word of God because it says things contrary to Rome's word. They need the three legged stool in order to stand.
Here's one to try out. Ask the question: Where in the Bible does it say you get to add to God's Word? They cannot answer this without referencing Rome's manufactured doctrines.
This is where they will pull the authority card. Peter... blah, blah. Blah! Pope Bigglesworth, cardinal Fang. Their authority is not grounded in historical fact nor is there any Bible only context available for them to establish the authority. They will try to shred Peter's declaration of Christ's identity to somehow mean that Peter is "the Rock". It's just dumb. Christ is the rock and Petros just stated that. Christ is the bedrock, the Petra. Words mean things and Rome can't fake it when they try the lame argument.

I'm sure that Miriam would be appalled.

Jeff
Jeff, very well articulated! This is what all cults do - they claim to have some special authority. The RCC has had a lot of practice pulling the wool over people's eyes. It was a little easier when they had the power to just kill anyone who objected to their apostasy.
 
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