Catholics praying to Mary and the saints yet still claim to be Christians

Xenosjeff

Well-Known Member
Also, I wanted to add that the sacrifice offered by the priest during a mass is by definition (CCC) The one same sacrifice that Christ offered on calvary. They just re-present that sacrifice. It's just a way of side stepping the once for all problem.

The time and space issue doesn't seem to register at all with Catholic apologists. Neither does the whole problem about how people were saved before the cross. They were saved by having faith in what God had revealed about a Messiah to come. They weren't saved by works of righteousness but by faith. They lived out this faith through obedience to the law which was the schoolmaster which showed the true nature of their existence. Rome cannot answer this question without torturing logic into a pretzel. Well, if the Jews didn't need Catholicism to filter out how God saved them, why do we? We don't!

Also during the mass there is a phrase that the priest uses as he is presenting the eucharist, " the work of human hands". This also is a contradiction of basic theological fact. God does not dwell in man-made dwellings, objects or glutin free wafers. God's spirit dwells in the hearts of believing Christians. He is in our hearts by faith and His grace towards us is ours because we know and trust that His son is the only way, truth and life.

If a cradle Catholic hears this message it is truly frightening for them. So many ingrained fears, family ties, habits keep them enslaved to this man-made fake authority. It's what grandma did. It's what WE do. They wonder how anyone could maneuver the complexity of appeasement of God without their religion. It just doesn't make sense.

When it's a persons moment of hearing the Spirit call them, will they allow God to be heard? Or, will they listen to man-made rules and traditions?

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is simple and pure. It needs nothing in order to be all you need. Let religion go, let it pass away and ask God to reveal the completed work that was finished for you once for all. Once you truly accept the gift Jesus already paid for you can be satisfied. Religion will never fulfill your need to have the Father child relationship that you really long for. By faith in Jesus you can be right with God. It's the only way.

Jeff
 

Jaybird

Well-Known Member
Also, I wanted to add that the sacrifice offered by the priest during a mass is by definition (CCC) The one same sacrifice that Christ offered on calvary. They just re-present that sacrifice. It's just a way of side stepping the once for all problem.

The time and space issue doesn't seem to register at all with Catholic apologists. Neither does the whole problem about how people were saved before the cross. They were saved by having faith in what God had revealed about a Messiah to come. They weren't saved by works of righteousness but by faith. They lived out this faith through obedience to the law which was the schoolmaster which showed the true nature of their existence. Rome cannot answer this question without torturing logic into a pretzel. Well, if the Jews didn't need Catholicism to filter out how God saved them, why do we? We don't!

Also during the mass there is a phrase that the priest uses as he is presenting the eucharist, " the work of human hands". This also is a contradiction of basic theological fact. God does not dwell in man-made dwellings, objects or glutin free wafers. God's spirit dwells in the hearts of believing Christians. He is in our hearts by faith and His grace towards us is ours because we know and trust that His son is the only way, truth and life.

If a cradle Catholic hears this message it is truly frightening for them. So many ingrained fears, family ties, habits keep them enslaved to this man-made fake authority. It's what grandma did. It's what WE do. They wonder how anyone could maneuver the complexity of appeasement of God without their religion. It just doesn't make sense.

When it's a persons moment of hearing the Spirit call them, will they allow God to be heard? Or, will they listen to man-made rules and traditions?

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is simple and pure. It needs nothing in order to be all you need. Let religion go, let it pass away and ask God to reveal the completed work that was finished for you once for all. Once you truly accept the gift Jesus already paid for you can be satisfied. Religion will never fulfill your need to have the Father child relationship that you really long for. By faith in Jesus you can be right with God. It's the only way.

Jeff
All I can say is Amen, Hallelujah and all praise to Jesus for his FINISHED work on the cross! What more can we say!
 

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
Since the Roman Catholics are pursuing a false plan of salvation now and are not flat out rejecting Jesus Christ - but are being misled by the Catholic clergy and their fabricated doctrines - perhaps a great many of Catholics will be included in what will make up the eventual Tribulation saints. One would certainly hope so. The Tribulation, in a sense, will be their Purgatory, in that, they missed out in being saved during the age of Grace, didn't bother to search out the Scriptures to find the One and Only True path to redemption, but will instead have to suffer through however long they have to endure the suffering in the Trib before accepting Christ and be possibly martyred for their faith. Hopefully a great number of Muslims and other followers of false religions will also come to Christ finally in those horrible years. Better to suffer then - and only then - than have to endure an eternal state of suffering.
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
Since the Roman Catholics are pursuing a false plan of salvation now and are not flat out rejecting Jesus Christ - but are being misled by the Catholic clergy and their fabricated doctrines - perhaps a great many of Catholics will be included in what will make up the eventual Tribulation saints. One would certainly hope so. The Tribulation, in a sense, will be their Purgatory, in that, they missed out in being saved during the age of Grace, didn't bother to search out the Scriptures to find the One and Only True path to redemption, but will instead have to suffer through however long they have to endure the suffering in the Trib before accepting Christ and be possibly martyred for their faith. Hopefully a great number of Muslims and other followers of false religions will also come to Christ finally in those horrible years. Better to suffer then - and only then - than have to endure an eternal state of suffering.
I think many Catholics might wake up then. Many dont like the current Pope so that makes them have a tiny question mark...if the infallible Pope is making errors (some RCC leaders are speaking out against the Pope) then maybe we should check the Bible to see what else doesnt line up...I pray that God moves the seeker's hearts to call out to Him, and that their blinders fall off, as mine did, in the Presence of the King!! If anyone seeks Him, they will find Him! I pray they find Him before the Rapture!

The religious blinders are hotly n proudly defended. My RCC family really get defensive about their "faith". I pray that they can let go of their fear that their religion is false and see Jesus for Who He is, and embrace Him. I know many Catholics who are close to doing that!!! I'm like, hurrrry up n accept Jesus already!!!
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
Being out of the RCC since 1991, (grew up strict...all 11 of us kids went to Cath school thru high school, rosary as a family every night on certain weeks, my parents buy masses for dead ppl's purgatory exit, etc!) I see so many things that Catholics dismiss.

Recently I realized that Jesus actually dismissed his mother n brothers one time when He was preaching. Jesus said, Who are my mother n brothers, except those who do the will of God?" I mean to a Catholic, Jesus ignored MARY...whom RCC ppl claim not to worship...but kissing the feet of her statue and laying flowers n candles at her statue plus praying to her...looks like worship to me. But Jesus didnt worship her.

Another thing, Peter, whom the RCC bases Pope-hood off of was married. Plus Jesus called him satan at one point when Peter was fleshly concerned that maybe Jesus shouldnt allow ppl to kill him. Jesus loved his mom n Peter but he didnt revere them as they are by many ppl. Interesting...
 

welkin

Well-Known Member
Being out of the RCC since 1991, (grew up strict...all 11 of us kids went to Cath school thru high school, rosary as a family every night on certain weeks, my parents buy masses for dead ppl's purgatory exit, etc!) I see so many things that Catholics dismiss.

Recently I realized that Jesus actually dismissed his mother n brothers one time when He was preaching. Jesus said, Who are my mother n brothers, except those who do the will of God?" I mean to a Catholic, Jesus ignored MARY...whom RCC ppl claim not to worship...but kissing the feet of her statue and laying flowers n candles at her statue plus praying to her...looks like worship to me. But Jesus didnt worship her.

Another thing, Peter, whom the RCC bases Pope-hood off of was married. Plus Jesus called him satan at one point when Peter was fleshly concerned that maybe Jesus shouldnt allow ppl to kill him. Jesus loved his mom n Peter but he didnt revere them as they are by many ppl. Interesting...
If Roman Catholics would start packing their Bibles to church and start comparing scripture with what the priest is saying it revolutionize things
 

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
Recently I realized that Jesus actually dismissed his mother n brothers one time when He was preaching. Jesus said, Who are my mother n brothers, except those who do the will of God?" I mean to a Catholic, Jesus ignored MARY...whom RCC ppl claim not to worship...but kissing the feet of her statue and laying flowers n candles at her statue plus praying to her.

Not only then, but in Luke 11:27, the passage records Jesus' comments regarding a woman who was praising Jesus' mother:

“And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it”.

Jesus knew what would happen in the future with regards to Catholicism's attempt to deify her and to give her attributes
that are unscriptural. You would think that an encounter like this with the woman would be so insignificant that it wouldn’t be included in the Scriptures. People are always saying things off the top of their head without any thought of it's implications. Jesus statement to the woman was purposely put in there to try to dispel any worship or praise to someone other than God.

It is far better to read God's Word, trust in its teachings, and live by it in terms of salvation than to be misled, worship falsely, then wind up eternally lost. No one else can save us - not a religious institution, nor another being, no matter who they are - and hearing the word of God and keeping it will prevent us from following false doctrines and wind up eternally lost.
 

Xenosjeff

Well-Known Member
Since the Roman Catholics are pursuing a false plan of salvation now and are not flat out rejecting Jesus Christ - but are being misled by the Catholic clergy and their fabricated doctrines - perhaps a great many of Catholics will be included in what will make up the eventual Tribulation saints. One would certainly hope so. The Tribulation, in a sense, will be their Purgatory, in that, they missed out in being saved during the age of Grace, didn't bother to search out the Scriptures to find the One and Only True path to redemption, but will instead have to suffer through however long they have to endure the suffering in the Trib before accepting Christ and be possibly martyred for their faith. Hopefully a great number of Muslims and other followers of false religions will also come to Christ finally in those horrible years. Better to suffer then - and only then - than have to endure an eternal state of suffering.
I've said this directly to my Catholic wife. I told her that the Lord would decide where the " line" was. Was her faith in her membership in a religion enough? Was her faith in following rituals, attending mass, EARNING grace through sacraments, DOING penance, praying decade after repetitive decade of rosaries? Or was her faith actually in Christ and His sacrifice alone.

Well, by their works you will know them.

When I left Roman Catholicism I knew it was a works religion. It's even a more distinct and easily defined contrast now.

I've burned my bridges by being direct and clear. I've gone from regret to confidence in my acts and words a thousand times. The questions I ask myself of how I've shared the message to catholic people has kept me up many nights. There isn't malicious intent or pride in my heart when the subject comes up. It feels like desperation while trying to help someone who won't be helped. " The Spirt will do the work" I tell myself. Help me Lord give them your truth, is what is on my heart.
Skyrider. I'm afraid that you are correct. There isn't anything hitting hard enough in day to day relations and life in general to bring about the radical shift to inspire someone to rethink their faith. Health scare, loss of a loved one, these often only entrench a mind and don't foster the environment for careful, rational reconsideration. Once the tribulation begins however, that will be a radical change. Then, by our absence, our words that point to all of the "sola's" will be recalled. We hope they will anyways. People who are not expecting a great deception may not be in a place to learn how to divine rightly.

There is just so much human pride in this beast of a religion. Any false religion will have pride in it's mix of failures but Rome has been dancing on the edge between light and dark for so long it is a master of deception. Looks good, tastes bad.

Jeff
 

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
I've said this directly to my Catholic wife. I told her that the Lord would decide where the " line" was. Was her faith in her membership in a religion enough? Was her faith in following rituals, attending mass, EARNING grace through sacraments, DOING penance, praying decade after repetitive decade of rosaries? Or was her faith actually in Christ and His sacrifice alone.

Well, by their works you will know them.

When I left Roman Catholicism I knew it was a works religion. It's even a more distinct and easily defined contrast now.

I've burned my bridges by being direct and clear. I've gone from regret to confidence in my acts and words a thousand times. The questions I ask myself of how I've shared the message to catholic people has kept me up many nights. There isn't malicious intent or pride in my heart when the subject comes up. It feels like desperation while trying to help someone who won't be helped. " The Spirt will do the work" I tell myself. Help me Lord give them your truth, is what is on my heart.
Skyrider. I'm afraid that you are correct. There isn't anything hitting hard enough in day to day relations and life in general to bring about the radical shift to inspire someone to rethink their faith. Health scare, loss of a loved one, these often only entrench a mind and don't foster the environment for careful, rational reconsideration. Once the tribulation begins however, that will be a radical change. Then, by our absence, our words that point to all of the "sola's" will be recalled. We hope they will anyways. People who are not expecting a great deception may not be in a place to learn how to divine rightly.

There is just so much human pride in this beast of a religion. Any false religion will have pride in it's mix of failures but Rome has been dancing on the edge between light and dark for so long it is a master of deception. Looks good, tastes bad.

Jeff
Exactly. Their's - Roman Catholicism's brand of Christianity - is not Jesus Christ's. It can't be. There shouldn't be any doubt that this is Satan's form of Christianity. It has a very thin veneer of some Christian flavor but inwardly, it is a concoction mixed together to doom the adherents of it. It has enemy's fingerprints all over it. It is not the real thing. It is a sham, designed to deceive, to dupe its followers into a Christ-less eternity.

The ones who may go into the Tribulation and then be saved, are the fortunate ones. They will, in a weird way, get a second attempt to come out of that false church and still be saved. Millions before them were not so fortunate.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
As for the mass, it is the essence or pinnacle of what being a Roman Catholic is all about. It is really a black mass, where the priest has supposed power to change the characteristics and ingredients of a gluten wafer and the wine into the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ, all of His Divinity and all of His Humanity into each and every wafer on the Roman Catholic priest's altar. Everyone given this wafer has to attest to the fact that the wafer is now Jesus, by answering “amen” to the priest's verbal “body of Christ” before the recipient takes it. The mass centers around this rite of transubstantiation - the changing of the elements into the actual body and blood of Christ - and then the re-sacrificing or the re-presenting of Christ,s body in a bloodless sacrifice at each and every mass. Although Jesus said “It is finished” at the cross, in His one time sacrifice of Himself for the forgiveness of sins, Rome in essence says that the sacrifice was not finished and that Jesus needs to be sacrificed repeatedly to cover the sins of the Catholic faithful - even though they still pay a penance for the remission of sins and then time has to be spent in Purgatory still to cover any leftover sins. It is all a scam, a charade. What it does to the Catholic faithful is to hold them in bondage to Rome and the priests, and the need for them to conduct theses masses in the hopes of making it to Heaven one day. Without the mass, and the priests, and the Catholic Church, one is doomed. It is nothing but bondage to their system.

Another caveat: if you purposely miss going to Mass, you have committed a mortal sin. If you now die in that state, without going to confession to tell the priest about this infraction, you go straight to Hell. No Purgatory, but Hell. Rome delineates sin as being either Venial or Mortal. Venial being lesser sins: I cheated on a test, I put a tack on Sister Margaret Mary,s seat in school,…that type of thing. Mortal sins are more serious: not going to Mass, breaking any one of the 10 Commandments, that type of thing.

So, no matter how long that you been a Catholic - were baptized, had your first communion, first confession, been confirmed, attended Mass all of your life, been fully immersed into the Roman Catholic program of salvation - you miss Mass once on a Sunday or Holy Day of Obligation - a whole different thing - because you wanted to watch a Flintstone marathon instead of going to Mass and haven,t seen a priest yet to get absolution for this Mortal sin, you are in danger of Hell fire. It is totally bogus and only entraps their faithful into their bankrupt system.

Again, the Mass is a satanic ritual that denies the sufficiency of Christ's one time sacrifice on the cross. The devil never misses a trick to deny what Jesus has accomplished for those of us who accept His atonement. Unfortunately, for Catholics, they are blind to the truth and have to go through this facade every Sunday.
Yep to all of this! I remember all of this as a former Catholic. I hated it as I got into my teen years. It just didn't make sense but I wasn't allowed to question anything. Thank God I walked away and he found me. He led me to the Bible and I was set free!
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
I think many Catholics might wake up then. Many dont like the current Pope so that makes them have a tiny question mark...if the infallible Pope is making errors (some RCC leaders are speaking out against the Pope) then maybe we should check the Bible to see what else doesnt line up...I pray that God moves the seeker's hearts to call out to Him, and that their blinders fall off, as mine did, in the Presence of the King!! If anyone seeks Him, they will find Him! I pray they find Him before the Rapture!

The religious blinders are hotly n proudly defended. My RCC family really get defensive about their "faith". I pray that they can let go of their fear that their religion is false and see Jesus for Who He is, and embrace Him. I know many Catholics who are close to doing that!!! I'm like, hurrrry up n accept Jesus already!!!
That's what happened to my mom. This Pope's behavior had her questioning and I kept sharing Bible verses in response to life problems we were facing. She got intrigued and kept asking me for the Bible verses to read them herself. Eventually the Lord got her through his very word. She finally attended a Bible study with me at a Baptist church, that we attend now, and accepted Jesus Christ sacrifice on the cross. You could see the change in her face. It's like she has a peace she has never had before.

It's amazing and I know God is using this Pope's blasphemy to open up many deceived people's eyes.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
I just had my final session with a Catholic/Mennonite client. She told me she felt something was missing in her relationship with God. I began sharing the Romans Road of Salvation but she immediately started asking me about confession to a priest, purgatory. I shared my testimony of being a former Catholic and ureged her to find these teaching in the Bible for herself. I suggested she read the rest of Romans and compare it to what she's being taught by everyone in her life.

I'm praying the Lord will open her eyes and she will have a thirst for the Word of God. It's extremely difficult for people to leave these cults because, as others have said, it becomes their identity. This is what their entire family believes and shares.
 

Jaybird

Well-Known Member
The apostasy of the RCC is very difficult to overcome as it is so ingrained in families. Both my parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins and some atheists were all in the RCC. (except the atheists through marriage). By the grace of God he showed me the truth of His Word, but there are still many family members who are still believers in the RCC. All we can do is pray for them. The RCC is truly Satan's masterpiece! ( borrowed that masterpiece saying from UntilThe WholeWorldHears - a great description)!!!

UntilTheWholeWorldHears

 
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Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
That's what happened to my mom. This Pope's behavior had her questioning and I kept sharing Bible verses in response to life problems we were facing. She got intrigued and kept asking me for the Bible verses to read them herself. Eventually the Lord got her through his very word. She finally attended a Bible study with me at a Baptist church, that we attend now, and accepted Jesus Christ sacrifice on the cross. You could see the change in her face. It's like she has a peace she has never had before.

It's amazing and I know God is using this Pope's blasphemy to open up many deceived people's eyes.
That is beautiful!!! Praise God!!!
 

Jaybird

Well-Known Member
The entire history of the RCC should open their eyes! Popes who fathered children, started wars, the Inquisition, killed people who wanted to know the truth. The list is endless. Do you know that they actually have a process for "damning" people to Hell. They have a ceremony where they pronounce what is called an anethema. What gives these people a right to damn people to Hell because they don't agree with them? Loving your neighbor is certainly not in their vocabulary.
 

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
The entire history of the RCC should open their eyes! Popes who fathered children, started wars, the Inquisition, killed people who wanted to know the truth. The list is endless. Do you know that they actually have a process for "damning" people to Hell. They have a ceremony where they pronounce what is called an anethema. What gives these people a right to damn people to Hell because they don't agree with them? Loving your neighbor is certainly not in their vocabulary.
Foxe's Book of Martyrs lists a great detail of Rome's atrocities toward true Christians.
 

Mama Bug

Well-Known Member
I was partly raised Catholic. My mother was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school. She even has a Catholic Bible. I used to like going through it and looking at the pictures. We went to mass every Sunday and I never understood any of it. The priest never taught us anything. It was all just rituals. I never took Communion but my mother always did. The priest would say something or sing something, we would say or sing something back at him.

Then I would go with my dad to his church, which was Assembly of God. It was very different. We would sing, the offering would be taken, more singing, and that was back when churches still had a choir. My dad was in the choir, so my grandma would watch me. The pastor would then get up and preach, get to screaming and hollering. I didn't really understand much as a small child. I did learn some in children's church, but mainly what I learned and retained came from my dad.

My mom claims to know the Bible well. She and my dad would have debates. He never could get through to her. Catholics are very stubborn and set in their ways. Some do come out of it but a lot of them will not listen. My maternal grandma was not raised Catholic but joined it when she married my grandpa. I'm grateful that while my mom did take me to Catholic church, she didn't teach me much about it. I was always more of a daddy's girl and in this case it served me well. I listened to him more closely than I even knew and when I hit rock bottom I knew where to go, thanks to him teaching me. Mom thinks she's a good person so that's good enough to get into Heaven. Catholicism being works based would explain it. Partly anyway. She never taught me to pray to Mary or other saints but I do vaguely remember asking her about it. The Episcopalians also believe in purgatory and the Eucharist. My uncle was Episcopalian and when he committed suicide, the priest was telling us we needed to make my uncle comfortable on the other side and we needed to recite the Eucharist. That was the weirdest and most empty funeral I'd ever attended and I had been to a Catholic funeral. I don't know what kind of look I had on my face when he said that. I'm sure I was giving the priest a look that let him know what I thought about that. The priest at my grandmother's Catholic funeral just recited some stuff and threw holy water everywhere.
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
I was partly raised Catholic. My mother was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school. She even has a Catholic Bible. I used to like going through it and looking at the pictures. We went to mass every Sunday and I never understood any of it. The priest never taught us anything. It was all just rituals. I never took Communion but my mother always did. The priest would say something or sing something, we would say or sing something back at him.

Then I would go with my dad to his church, which was Assembly of God. It was very different. We would sing, the offering would be taken, more singing, and that was back when churches still had a choir. My dad was in the choir, so my grandma would watch me. The pastor would then get up and preach, get to screaming and hollering. I didn't really understand much as a small child. I did learn some in children's church, but mainly what I learned and retained came from my dad.

My mom claims to know the Bible well. She and my dad would have debates. He never could get through to her. Catholics are very stubborn and set in their ways. Some do come out of it but a lot of them will not listen. My maternal grandma was not raised Catholic but joined it when she married my grandpa. I'm grateful that while my mom did take me to Catholic church, she didn't teach me much about it. I was always more of a daddy's girl and in this case it served me well. I listened to him more closely than I even knew and when I hit rock bottom I knew where to go, thanks to him teaching me. Mom thinks she's a good person so that's good enough to get into Heaven. Catholicism being works based would explain it. Partly anyway. She never taught me to pray to Mary or other saints but I do vaguely remember asking her about it. The Episcopalians also believe in purgatory and the Eucharist. My uncle was Episcopalian and when he committed suicide, the priest was telling us we needed to make my uncle comfortable on the other side and we needed to recite the Eucharist. That was the weirdest and most empty funeral I'd ever attended and I had been to a Catholic funeral. I don't know what kind of look I had on my face when he said that. I'm sure I was giving the priest a look that let him know what I thought about that. The priest at my grandmother's Catholic funeral just recited some stuff and threw holy water everywhere.
I am sorry about your uncle! I didnt know that other denominations believed in Purgatory.

I connected to your post...I was raised strict RCC, got saved in college n followed my boyfriend into the AG church...was a shock at first from going to Catholic mass to seeing ppl "slain in the Spirit"...the speaking in tongues freaked me out til I studied the Bible. These days, I prefer line by line Bible teaching. Interesting that you were exposed to Cath n AG!

Saddest funerals to me are Cath ones...no one is sure if the deceased is in Heaven. But they CAN be sure...I pray that ppl find Jesus n read their Bibles!!
 
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