Catholics and the Ten Commandments!

athenasius

athenasius

Well-Known Member
So I was listening to a sermon last night, and the preacher got onto a question from a viewer which brought up something INTERESTING about the way the CATHOLICS sidestep the Ten Commandments and have REPLACED the SECOND one. He points out that the business of BOWING DOWN to these graven images of the "saints" or "Mary" or "Jesus" is actually referring to praying and venerating these images or what they appear to stand for.

My sister became a Catholic in her early 20's going completely against our late mother's teaching. I never even noticed that her version of the 10 commandments allows her to drop the second one. She and a Catholic friend of mine are always going on about how they don't worship these idols or "pray" to them, but since prayer is a conversation with God or other entities, they are actually engaging in prayer to the dead, which is forbidden. Deut 18:9 is very very clear on that. When Saul got the witch of Endor to summon Samuel to give Saul advice he DIED the next day because of that wicked act. 1 Chron 10:13

So here's the Protestant and the Jewish versions-- they are identical. They come from Exodus 20:2-17 and Deut 5:6-21
Exodus 20:2-17 New International Version (NIV)

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

Deuteronomy 5:6-21 New International Version (NIV)

6 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

7 “You shall have no other gods before me.

8 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 10 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

11 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

12 “Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

16 “Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

17 “You shall not murder.

18 “You shall not commit adultery.

19 “You shall not steal.

20 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

21 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor’s house or land, his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

In both Jewish and Protestant circles this is the Ten Commandments:

  1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
  2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
  3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that takes his name in vain.
  4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
  5. Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God gives thee.
  6. Thou shalt not kill.
  7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
  8. Thou shalt not steal.
  9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
  10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.

BUT NOT FOR CATHOLICS:
Catholic

  1. I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.
  2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
  3. Remember thou keep the Sabbath Day.
  4. Honor thy father and thy mother.
  5. Thou shalt not kill.
  6. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
  7. Thou shalt not steal.
  8. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
  9. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife.
  10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods.
THEY REMOVED THE 2cd COMMANDMENT ALTOGETHER and REPLACED IT BY DIVIDING THE 10th Commandment into 2, to make sure their version has 10 not 9.
 
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Beebee Hei

Beebee Hei

God’s beloved
the 2nd commandment, as written in their bible versions (eg. Catholic Public domain version; Good news Bible catholic edition; New revised standard version catholic interconfessional), states the same commandments as we have in our versions... That being said, I also do not understand why the members of the church believe what was said on the sermon, without checking their own bibles... Also, about saints, it's really hard to debate them on such matter as they insist these "saints" are alive in Christ in heaven... they don't consider them dead so it is okay to request for them in prayer just as we also pray for each other here in on earth... That's just how my some of my devoted catholic friends here justify their beliefs.
 
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PhilR

Well-Known Member
They even twisted and added to the commandment, "Honor thy father and mother...." The RCC also adds, "obey thy prelates and be subject to them" meaning, obey the priests, bishops and the pope.

Catholics, of course, believe the Christian is still bound to keep the law and commandments as a condition for salvation. Paul would emphatically take issue with this in numerous passages! The Christian believer is instead under the heart guidance of the Holy Spirit, not the tablets of stone. (2 Cor 3:3-7)
 
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athenasius

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Beebee Hei said:
the 2nd commandment, as written in their bible versions (eg. Catholic Public domain version; Good news Bible catholic edition; New revised standard version catholic interconfessional), states the same commandments as we have in our versions... That being said, I also do not understand why the members of the church believe what was said on the sermon, without checking their own bibles... Also, about saints, it's really hard to debate them on such matter as they insist these "saints" are alive in Christ in heaven... they don't consider them dead so it is okay to request for them in prayer just as we also pray for each other here in on earth... That's just how my some of my devoted catholic friends here justify their beliefs.
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It's in their Bibles, including the Douay-Rheims version

but not in the versions they are given to memorize in the catechism.

The catechism here https://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/command.htm from the vatican even has the Scripture from Exodus 20 over on the left, but the commandments as the Catholic is taught them, is in the right.

And they stuck the graven images business as part of the First commandment in the fine print. So Thou Shalt Have NO Other gods Before Me includes a lot of scripture that most Catholics glaze over.

The Vatican basically says that all that other stuff about graven images is under this first commandment. They do that in a complete break with how that passage in Ex 20 and the one in Deut 5 have been written from Jewish Old Testament times, down thru the early church and the Protestants who reclaimed the Bible as the authority, not the Vatican.

So they will tell their flock not to worry, that part is just fine print for theologians to understand. Glossing it over.

And in case any bright sparks in the parish get ideas, they remembered that it was 10 commandments, not 9 so they split the last or 10th commandment into 2 -- creating a difference where historically the Jews and early Church only had one commandment-- the 10th.
 
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PhilR

Well-Known Member
The apostle John writes to the church at Ephesus in Rev 2:6, "But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." Nicolaitans come from its two sylabals: nikao, to conquer; and laos, the people or laity. It comes from this early heresy of a superior clergy and priesthood over the common people or laity, which Christ condemns. He continues to the church at Pergamos " So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which I hate." Rev 2:15
Catholicism, in all its forms, has tyrannically usurped the power of the believer and usurped the final authority of the Bible, the word of God. They did this to blend in and make Christianity compatible in the Roman pagan world. Here is the reason they leave out the commandment against idols. They claim they are not actually worshiping the image or statue, but venerating the person, or worshiping in the case of the Godhead. You can also blame two of their biggest heroes, Constantine and Augustine.
 
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FaithnHope

FaithnHope

Loved and changed by Jesus.
fl2007rn said:
Mary would be appalled that people are praying to statues of her instead of worshiping Jesus. :mad:
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I have a catholic friend that I text prayers to and I always end “in Jesus name we ask, amen.” She is starting to text prayers back for me, ending the same way. She clearly knows and loves Jesus. I just pray the Lord opens her eyes to what the Catholic Church really is. She asked me about what I thought was going on and we chatted about it for a while. Later, I sent her to Tom Hughes YouTube. Since he is excatholic I thought he might help her. I haven’t heard if she has listened to him yet.
 
hopefilled

hopefilled

Well-Known Member
FaithnHope said:
I have a catholic friend that I text prayers to and I always end “in Jesus name we ask, amen.” She is starting to text prayers back for me, ending the same way. She clearly knows and loves Jesus. I just pray the Lord opens her eyes to what the Catholic Church really is. She asked me about what I thought was going on and we chatted about it for a while. Later, I sent her to Tom Hughes YouTube. Since he is excatholic I thought he might help her. I haven’t heard if she has listened to him yet.
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Praying the Holy Spirit will lead your friend into truth!
 
lismore

lismore

Well-Known Member
My family were RCs for generations, but my immediate family, mother, uncles, aunts, cousin left the church when I was very young.

You're right, they have many traditions that directly contradict the scriptures. And because it's a works based system they have no assurance of salvation.

But in discussions with many RCs I have also noted that it can be a very anti-Semitic belief system. Because they don't believe God has a plan for Israel, that God has brought them back to the land, or indeed they don't believe that the Jews are the same ethnic group as before, they have no concept of the imminent return of the Lord because the Fig Tree has blossomed. I often wondered why the Lord would allow such a perverse system to flourish, calling itself Christian.

But I had the thought that through the persecution of Jews by the Catholic Church in the middle ages the Jews kept their separate identity. They were persecuted, forced to wear distinctive clothes, banned from certain occupations, forced to live separately, sometimes murdered by the church. But without this persecution the Jews would have assimilated into Medieval Society and there would have been no Fig Tree to Blossom in 1948. God Bless :)
 
Annie

Annie

Be A Berean!
athenasius said:
So I was listening to a sermon last night, and the preacher got onto a question from a viewer which brought up something INTERESTING about the way the CATHOLICS sidestep the Ten Commandments and have REPLACED the SECOND one. He points out that the business of BOWING DOWN to these graven images of the "saints" or "Mary" or "Jesus" is actually referring to praying and venerating these images or what they appear to stand for.

My sister became a Catholic in her early 20's going completely against our late mother's teaching. I never even noticed that her version of the 10 commandments allows her to drop the second one. She and a Catholic friend of mine are always going on about how they don't worship these idols or "pray" to them, but since prayer is a conversation with God or other entities, they are actually engaging in prayer to the dead, which is forbidden. Deut 18:9 is very very clear on that. When Saul got the witch of Endor to summon Samuel to give Saul advice he DIED the next day because of that wicked act. 1 Chron 10:13
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:pray Praying for your sister. How is she doing.

I remember as a kid (being indoctrinated during that time by the RCC) the time when a school classmate told me Catholics pray to statues. I was like, what? :laugh That was a new concept but I never forgot it. The RCC has an excuse for everything that comes up and in that case we were to say "no, having a statue in front of us reminds us of who we are praying to, we aren't praying to statues". Praying to the dead doesn't even enter into the equation from what I've seen firsthand.

But since they have no biblical background they are left with no guidance :ohno
 
FaithnHope

FaithnHope

Loved and changed by Jesus.
hopefilled said:
Praying the Holy Spirit will lead your friend into truth!
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She is now talking to her kids about the rapture! She wants them ready so I sent her JD’s last update. She is clearly watching and believing! Thank you so much for praying for her!:hug A whole family is coming to Jesus - it is beautiful to see.:wooo
athenasius said:
She isn't great. She is fairly stable right now (she's had some very serious mental health problems) so that has been an improvement in the last year and a half. I appreciate the prayers on her behalf. There's a lot I don't /can't go into on public forums but prayer is much appreciated.
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I will be praying for your sister too. :hug
 
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