Canticles

OutWest

Active Member
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I've participated on more than thirty forums and message boards since going online in 1997. I can recall only one thread that discussed the Song of Solomon. I'm curious why that is.

NOTE: Solomon was literally a world class bigamist. He had something like 700 wives and 300 concubines (1Kings 11:1-3). So it's no surprise to me that the man would be inclined to pen at least one love story.

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Kaatje

My soul waits for the Lord, and in His Word I hope
Of course the Song of Solomon is first and foremost a beautiful love story.
But what interests me the most these days, is the prophetic connection to the Rapture.

Songs. 2: 8-14
The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills. My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice. 10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away. 11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; 12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle (literally, turtledove) is heard in our land; 13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away. 14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret (places) of the stairs.

The word "places" is not in the original text,
so this scripture is talking about the secret of the stairs.

"Rise up," it says, similar to the "Come up hither" of Revelation 4:1.
Both are referring to the Rapture, when we will meet Christ in the air.
Christ is looking through the lattice, He won’t be seen by everybody,
but He “winks” at His beloved to come away with Him.

The stairs remind us of Jacob's ladder.

He "dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to Heaven:
and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it. And, behold the LORD stood above it"
(Genesis 28:12).

In the Song of Solomon, the Lord is the bridegroom.
"Rise up," he says, "my love, my fair one,
(his Bride is his love) and come away (it is the Rapture).
 
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OutWest

Active Member
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the prophetic connection to the Rapture.

Well; in in my judicious estimation: any prophetic connection we might make with the rapture would be man-made, viz: an allusion; defined by Webster's as an implied or indirect reference, i.e. suggestive and/or allegorical.

I suppose there are any number of ways to spiritualize Song, and they're probably all very useful. Nothing especially wrong with allegories; I mean, the apostle Paul allegorized an event from the Old Testament to illustrate his point in Gal 4:21-31, so I think it's probably okay to utilize his method when we ourselves want to draw attention to something important.
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mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
I mean, the apostle Paul allegorized an event from the Old Testament to illustrate his point in Gal 4:21-31
I disagree that Paul "allegorized" it. The Holy Spirit revealed it to be an allegory. And that is because ALL that is recorded in the Old Testament is inspired by God and is given us for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness. God so arranged history that ALL that is recorded in the Bible serves as pictures, shadows, types of things to come in the New Testament, things that are given to teach us lessons and truths. So let's realize that when we come to see these things, it's not "spiritualizing", its not reading in what isn't there: it's seeing what God intends us to see.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
Of course the Song of Solomon is first and foremost a beautiful love story.
But what interests me the most these days, is the prophetic connection to the Rapture.

Songs. 2: 8-14
The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills. My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice. 10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away. 11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; 12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle (literally, turtledove) is heard in our land; 13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away. 14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret (places) of the stairs.

The word "places" is not in the original text,
so this scripture is talking about the secret of the stairs.

"Rise up," it says, similar to the "Come up hither" of Revelation 4:1.
Both are referring to the Rapture, when we will meet Christ in the air.
Christ is looking through the lattice, He won’t be seen by everybody,
but He “winks” at His beloved to come away with Him.
The stairs remind us of Jacob's ladder.

He "dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to Heaven:
and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it. And, behold the LORD stood above it"
(Genesis 28:12).

In the Song of Solomon, the Lord is the bridegroom.
"Rise up," he says, "my love, my fair one,
(his Bride is his love) and come away (it is the Rapture).


Awesome post, Kaatje!
 

OutWest

Active Member
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Well; I think we'd better get busy and give visitors something fun and interesting to read or this topic may end up dying in less time than a dot com initial public offering (a.k.a. IPO)

Song 1:1 . . Solomon's song of songs.

Solomon penned quite a few songs; something like 1,005 (1Kings 4:32). Whether he wrote the music too or just the lyrics; I don't know; maybe. He was a very intelligent guy, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was a musician; nor even that he could carry a tune; but then he didn't have to. Solomon had a number of professional singers on the payroll. (Ecc 2:8).

"song of songs" suggests a colloquialism like Sadaam Hussein's "mother of all wars". In other words: this particular song may have represented Solomon's best work to date.

NOTE: Personally I think Bad Romance is Lady Gaga's best work to date, but keep that under you hat.

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Kaatje

My soul waits for the Lord, and in His Word I hope
Solomon was literally a world class bigamist.
No, he was not.

Wiki about bigamy:
In cultures that practice marital monogamy, bigamy is the act of entering into a marriage with one person while still legally married to another.[1] Bigamy is a crime in most Western countries, and when it occurs in this context often neither the first nor second spouse is aware of the other.[2][3] In countries that have bigamy laws, consent from a prior spouse makes no difference to the legality of the second marriage, which is usually considered void.

Since there was no prohibition against multiple marriages in Israel, Solomon was not a bigamist.
 
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Salluz

Aspiring Man of God
Well; in in my judicious estimation: any prophetic connection we might make with the rapture would be man-made, viz: an allusion; defined by Webster's as an implied or indirect reference, i.e. suggestive and/or allegorical.

I suppose there are any number of ways to spiritualize Song, and they're probably all very useful. Nothing especially wrong with allegories; I mean, the apostle Paul allegorized an event from the Old Testament to illustrate his point in Gal 4:21-31, so I think it's probably okay to utilize his method when we ourselves want to draw attention to something important.
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I dislike the word spiritualize because it implies that you are no longer accepting it as a literal event, love song, prophecy, whatever. The idea Kaatje brought up is that it is both a lovely love song AND has hints of the rapture in it, much like many other places in the OT, Enoch being the first example that comes to mind. Enoch was a literal person and literally was taken to be with God without dying, but was ALSO a type of things to come, namely the Rapture of the Church. I know there are people out there who say it was not a love song at all and only speaks of the relationship between Christ/the Church, God/Israel, etc. THAT would be spiritualizing.

Also, there is no adding on to what the Bible says by looking back and seeing these hints because the Holy Spirit did nothing on accident when he inspired the various authors of the Bible. We are able to look back now and see the myriad of hints of what would be to come because we have the information provided in the New Testament and the Holy Spirit himself working in our lives to teach us.
 

OutWest

Active Member
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Since there was no prohibition against multiple marriages in Israel, Solomon was not a bigamist.

The law of the land in the Israel of Solomon's day was the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God. It states:

"When thou art come unto the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me . . . Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the Lord thy God shall choose . . . he shall not multiply horses to himself . . neither shall he multiply wives to himself" (Deut 17:14-17)

Well; seeing as how Solomon was God's selection to be king (2Sam 7:12-17, 1Kings 1:28-39) then the above law prohibiting multiple wives applied to him; ergo: Solomon's harem was illegal; viz: a crime.

Deut 4:2 . .You shall not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, but keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I enjoin upon you.

Deut 5:29-30 . . Be careful, then, to do as the Lord your God has commanded you. Do not turn aside to the right or to the left: follow only the path that the Lord your God has enjoined upon you
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OutWest

Active Member
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Just in case someone looking in has neither read nor heard anything from Solomon's song until just now; I should probably warn them that some portions of it may not be suitable for children.

Some of its language is a little disturbing even for grown-ups, especially in mixed company. Actually this book of the Bible may not be suitable for discussion on a worldwide internet forum. One thing's for sure: if we're not careful with this topic, we might give the impression that Christians are depraved.

Song 1:2a . . May he kiss me with the kisses of his mouth.

My wife is a big fan of a romance novelist named Debbie Macomber. I don't particularly care for Macomber's novels because some of her writing is a bit too sticky; if you know what I mean.

But though Solomon's song waxes a mite graphic in places, I wouldn't go so far as to say it's sticky-- maybe steamy, but not sticky. And the love affair it portrays is, in my judgment, a perfectly normal relationship between a normal man and a normal woman: i.e. no LGBT stuff.
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Salluz

Aspiring Man of God
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The law of the land in the Israel of Solomon's day was the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God. It states:

"When thou art come unto the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me . . . Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the Lord thy God shall choose . . . he shall not multiply horses to himself . . neither shall he multiply wives to himself" (Deut 17:14-17)

Well; seeing as how Solomon was God's selection to be king (2Sam 7:12-17, 1Kings 1:28-39) then the above law prohibiting multiple wives applied to him; ergo: Solomon's harem was illegal; viz: a crime.

Deut 4:2 . .You shall not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, but keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I enjoin upon you.

Deut 5:29-30 . . Be careful, then, to do as the Lord your God has commanded you. Do not turn aside to the right or to the left: follow only the path that the Lord your God has enjoined upon you
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I don't think you can take the prohibition against multiplying wives in the old testament the same as a prohibition against multiple wives. Yes, Solomon multiplied his wives. He had way too many. It was a large factor in the portion of his life he spent worshiping idols. But if you were to take that command as not having multiple wives instead of multiplying as it says, the entire nation of Israel could only have one horse. The idea is not to be so obsessed with what kings at the time were: a large army, a large harem, large coffers, etc. As far as I know, there weren't any indications that David sinned by having multiple wives; his sin was in the way he acquired one of them. Yes, in the New Testament it is more clear that we should only be in a completely monogamous relationship when it comes to marriage because of the symbolism of Christ and the Church and direct admonitions for Church leaders to be "husband of one wife." But I think it would be reading into things too much to say having two wives was against God's law at the time. It seemed to be something he tolerated and limited like slavery
 

Kaatje

My soul waits for the Lord, and in His Word I hope
I agree with you Salluz.

Reading the whole verse of Deut. 17:17, it says:

Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away:
neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

But in 1 Kings 3:13, when Solomon asked wisdom from the Lord, it says:

And I have also given thee that which thou hast not asked, both riches, and honour:
so that there shall not be any among the kings like unto thee all thy days.

God gave Solomon much wisdom AND much richess.
That’s why I must conclude that the words in Deut. 17 are more of a warning.
Much women could (and did) lead him to tresspass against the 2nd commandment.
But his taking multiple wives was not a transgression of the 7th commandment.
 

OutWest

Active Member
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Song 1:2b . . for your love is better than wine.

That phrase makes better sense when kept with the first half of the verse; which refers to kissing on the lips.

So; better in what way?

Alcohol, in just the right amount, can soothe people's nerves and put them in a good mood.

Ps 104:14-15 . . He bringing forth food from the earth, wine that gladdens the heart of man

But given the choice, I think most of us would rather be with a lover than with a bottle because lovers, on the whole, make us feel much, much better than booze.

I cannot remember ever feeling like singing whenever I was drinking; but this one girl I was dating back in the day made me feel so good that I was constantly humming old love songs that I hadn't thought of in years. Pretty amazing.
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OutWest

Active Member
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Song 1:3 . . Your oils have a pleasing fragrance, your name is like purified oil; therefore the maidens love you.

NOTE: The Juliet in this musical story is assumed to be a girl called Shulamite (Song 6:13), from the Hebrew word Shuwlammiyth (shoo-lam-meeth') which is apparently a pet name rather than a real name. It means peaceful; defined by Webster's as untroubled by conflict, agitation, or commotion, i.e. quiet, tranquil, and devoid of violence and force.


The "untroubled" aspect of her pet name caught my attention because it strongly suggests, at least to me anyway, that our Juliet didn't lose her composure under duress; in other words; she was unlikely to throw a hissy fit when things didn't go her way.

That's a fitting pet name for Solomon's Juliet because later on in the Song, she's spoken of as a dove; a bird well-known the world over as having a gentle personality.

ASIDE: I am convinced that Song is just as much a fantasy as Mozart's Magic Flute. The reason being that in Ecc 7:28, Solomon complained that he was unable to find even one good woman among a thousand. In other words: in my estimation, Shulamite was a daydream; viz: the kind of girl that Solomon always wished to meet, but never did. She was a girl who only existed in his imagination; and that's where she stayed.


Anyway, back to the guy. Juliet describes him as well groomed. He bathes often and uses deodorant; or whatever the equivalent of Old Spice was in that day. His grooming habits gained him quite a reputation among the ladies. You know; it's always nice if the guy that a girl is involved with makes her proud to be seen with him.

BTW: My wife is a fan of Hallmark channel. I don't go out of my way to watch Hallmark's romance movies, but whenever I do, I'm very pleased to see many of the gorgeous hunks well-groomed. Most of them shave too instead of sprouting velcro all over their face like blackened stubble left behind a forest fire.

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OutWest

Active Member
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Song 1:4a . .Take me away with you-- let us hurry! Let the king bring me into his chambers.

I think at this point Shulamite isn't speaking to anyone in particular. In point of fact, I suspect very strongly that quite a bit of dialogue throughout the Song is what's called soliloquy; defined by Webster's as a poem, discourse, or utterance of a character in a drama that has the form of a monologue, or gives the illusion of being a series of unspoken reflections. In other words: talking to yourself.

Song 1:4b . . We rejoice and delight in you; we will praise your love more than wine. How right they are to adore you!

Solomon was a king. Well; I've seen for myself how girls react to celebrities.

I caught a really cute illustration of this one morning when I was home from work watching Good Morning America with my wife. They often have musical groups performing outside in the street and on that particular day it was Enrique Iglesia.

While Enrique was singing, security hoisted a young girl up on the stage and he began singing his song directly to her. She began choking up and fighting back tears, and then he got down on both knees right in front of her; all the while crooning a very emotional Latin love song and looking right up into her eyes.

And then something happened that was just overwhelming. The girl was wearing a tank top that went down only about mid ways leaving her tummy exposed so you could see her belly button. Enrique gently pressed the palm of his hand on her bare tummy while he was kneeling there singing and looking right up into her eyes. She really lost it then and just about died.

Do you think that girl would have hesitated to bear Enrique's children? I tell you she would have gladly endured quints for that man right then and there. And it's not just the cute celebrities that have that effect on young girls.

My son and I attended an Aerosmith concert back in 1998 and I was utterly astounded at the number of gorgeous buxom young girls crowding security in front of the stage trying to get Stephen Tyler's attention. I don't know how many of you out there have seen a mug shot of Stephen Tyler but I can assure you he looks more like the Witch of Endor than a rock star, but there he was, charming those girls right out of their better judgment.

So then, we shouldn't be surprised that Shulamite said to herself: "Let the king bring me into his chambers." Her emotions' reaction to royalty was perfectly normal.
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OutWest

Active Member
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Song 1:5 . . I am black but lovely, O daughters of Jerusalem, like the tents of Kedar, like the curtains of Solomon.

The Hebrew word for "black" is shachor (shaw-khore') which means dusky, defined by Webster's as somewhat dark in color, i.e. somewhere between light and dark; viz: tanned.

Quite a few people here in Oregon pay money to tanning salons to darken their skin, while in California they bake themselves in sunlight. But apparently in Shulamite's day, women didn't tan on purpose because it was considered unattractive.

The "tents of Kedar" is likely a reference to the portable shelters utilized by herdsmen, while the "curtains of Solomon" is a reference to the beauty of tapestries hanging in his palace. (Have to give a shout-out to Adam Clark for that one.)

Shulamite had probably never actually seen those tapestries for herself but everybody knew about Solomon's extreme wealth and his ostentatious manner of living.

So, Shulamite's feminine attributes outweighed her complexion; and to tell the truth, very few of the men I've encountered during my 75 years on the third rock from the Sun care all that much about the color of a woman's face anyway. It's a very minor consideration; if it's considered at all.

Song 1:6 . . Do not stare at me because I am swarthy, for the sun has burned me. My mother's sons were angry with me; they made me caretaker of the vineyards. But I have not taken care of my own vineyard.

Shulamite's "own vineyard" no doubt refers to taking care of herself.

Grape harvest in that land is sometime around July and September; so you can just imagine the damage done to Shulamite's skin out there in the fields under a hot summer Sun.

NOTE: When women "stare" at each other, it's usually for the purpose of evaluating their appearance; viz: the daughters of Jerusalem were nit-picking Shulamite's appearance and likely making unkind remarks about it like Joan Rivers used to do on Fashion Police.
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OutWest

Active Member
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Song 1:7 . . Tell me, you whom I love, where you graze your flock and where you rest your sheep at midday. Why should I be like a veiled woman beside the flocks of your friends?

A veiled woman following flocks in that day was sort of like the loose women that followed cow towns and mining camps in the olde American west, except that not all veiled women were involved in vice.

When Judah encountered Tamar at a rest stop along the highway, he mistook her for a qedeshah (ked-ay-shaw') which isn't your typical working girl, but rather a devotee raising money for an established religion (Gen 38:21) typically a pagan kind of religion centered upon the worship of a goddess like Ashtoreth (a.k.a. Astarte). So one might say that a qedeshah's services were for a worthy cause.

in those days, cult prostitutes had a measure of respect in their community, and it wasn't unusual for every woman in the community to be expected to take a turn at supporting their "church" in that manner; so cult prostitution wasn't really looked upon as a vice but rather as a sacred obligation.

Still, Shulamite didn't want it getting around that she as a cult hooker; and it would certainly look that way were she to shadow the flocks. Well; her love interest solved that problem by having Shulamite move into camp.

Song 1:8 . . If you yourself do not know, most beautiful among women; go forth on the trail of the flock, and pasture your young goats by the tents of the shepherds.

That would not only provide Shulamite a measure of security, but also protect her reputation because our Romeo no doubt solemnly charged his men to keep their pea-pickin' paws off her just as Boaz did in the book of Ruth. (Ruth 2:9)
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mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
Note: the latest post by OutWest in this thread has been deleted as in our opinion (and that of several members) it bordered on the blasphemous and in no way does justice to this God-breathed book. In fact much of this thread serves the message of God poorly. I would suggest that for a good brief commentary on this book (Song of Songs, aka Canticles) that does it justice, people read Chuck Missler's article that Chris posted here: https://www.raptureforums.com/forums/posts/842741788/
 
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