Calvinism?

[greg64]

I read J. Vernon McGee's books and he calls himself a Calvinist. McGee states in one passage that he was saved because God made the choice and then in another states that those in Hell will be there because they made the choice from their free will to reject the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ.
Are Calvinist's saved? In another thread, it was noted that Spurgeon was a Calvinist. Does his view on election void out all his other teachings? Does that view of election put him in the file of being lost, unsaved? I don't read much of Spurgeon, but I think the question is valid. Same thing with those like John McArthur. Would you consider McArthur a lost man because of his views of election?

I usually spend my time trying to focus on Christ crucified and resurrected and getting that good news to others. If I read J. Vernon McGee and it helps me with getting out that truth, is that wrong because he's a Calvinist?

I think with anything the best approach is to be a Berean and go back to the Bible and see what it actually says and how it supports or refutes any teaching. I tend to see the whole Calvinism/Arminian thing as a continuum. At the hyper-Calvinism end, you have all the problems noted in many of the threads here. It kills evangelism and, to me, creates modern day pharisees. They reject the love of God for a feeling of power and superiority. At the extreme Arminian end, I think it tends to lead to universalism and everyone is saved regardless (kind of what you see going on in many mainline churches -- God accepts everyone as they are and it's all ok). Somewhere in the middle you draw the line and call yourself one or the other, but what does that really mean? I'd be in favor of throwing out the labels and just sticking to scripture.

Just did a search and found this on one got questions page that defines their stated belief https://www.gotquestions.org/arminianism.html:

Four-point Calvinism (the official position of Got Questions Ministries) finds the other four points of Arminianism to be unbiblical, to varying degrees. Romans 3:10–18 strongly argues for total depravity. Conditional election, or election based on God’s foreknowledge of human action, underemphasizes God’s sovereignty (Romans 8:28–30). Resistible grace underestimates the power and determination of God. Conditional salvation makes salvation a reward for work rather than a gift of grace (Ephesians 2:8–10). There are problems with both systems, but we see Calvinism as more biblically based than Arminianism. However, both systems fail to adequately explain the relationship between God’s sovereignty and mankind’s free will—due to the fact that it is impossible for a finite human mind to discern a concept only God can fully understand.

I disagree with their interpretation and would give their answers some extra scrutiny and proceed with caution, but don't see it as a salvation issue by itself. There's only one thing that really is -- who do you trust for your salvation and why.

 

[Jan51]

I read J. Vernon McGee's books and he calls himself a Calvinist. McGee states in one passage that he was saved because God made the choice and then in another states that those in Hell will be there because they made the choice from their free will to reject the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ.

I have read and listened to J. Vernon McGee for decades and never got that impression. Check out the audio clip and comments below on this page:
https://expreacherman.com/2012/09/19/dr-j-vernon-mcgee-denounces-calvinism/

 

[Jeff K]

I have read and listened to J. Vernon McGee for decades and never got that impression. Check out the audio clip and comments below on this page:
https://expreacherman.com/2012/09/19/dr-j-vernon-mcgee-denounces-calvinism/

I read JVM all the time and also don't think he is a Calvinist. I'll have to look for it, but he does state in one of his Thru the Bible books that he is a Calvinist. I was just trying to make a point that bits of Calvinism are all over the place and it's a tough subject for me to wade through everyone's teaching and determine who to listen to and who to avoid.
I used JVM this mormig in response to Mattforfive's post this morning about Unconditional Election. He used Romans 9:15 as the Calvinist stance on the subject. This is where JVM in his book states that he was saved because God made the choice, not him. I'll quote that later when I get home. When I read this this morning I thought to myself, who can I read? Where do you draw the line? Can someone be a Calvinist and not hold to all the points?

I just don't know how we can call one a false teacher and tell others to avoid them and then support others who hold bits and pieces of the same values. I obviously have not studied Calvinism, so hence all the questions.

If J. Vernon McGee is a Calvinist, I guess you could call me the same because I think he is correct in his teachings.

 

[Jeff K]

I think with anything the best approach is to be a Berean and go back to the Bible and see what it actually says and how it supports or refutes any teaching. I tend to see the whole Calvinism/Arminian thing as a continuum. At the hyper-Calvinism end, you have all the problems noted in many of the threads here. It kills evangelism and, to me, creates modern day pharisees. They reject the love of God for a feeling of power and superiority. At the extreme Arminian end, I think it tends to lead to universalism and everyone is saved regardless (kind of what you see going on in many mainline churches -- God accepts everyone as they are and it's all ok). Somewhere in the middle you draw the line and call yourself one or the other, but what does that really mean? I'd be in favor of throwing out the labels and just sticking to scripture.

Just did a search and found this on one got questions page that defines their stated belief https://www.gotquestions.org/arminianism.html:



I disagree with their interpretation and would give their answers some extra scrutiny and proceed with caution, but don't see it as a salvation issue by itself. There's only one thing that really is -- who do you trust for your salvation and why.

This was the link I wal looking for but could not find this morning.
Thanks

 

[Brother Albert R.]

Wow Adrian,
That is an incredible piece of work. I agree with Andy, and I hope you don't mind if I copy it and give it to some of my Calvinist friends to think about, I will acknowledge your authorship. I love how you use John 3:16 to explain the limited atonement portion of tulip. I go round and round with my Christian Calvinist friends and I know how they think. But because the Calvinist teachers use, or should I say abuse so much scripture they convince their listeners they are in the right. Now that I am on the outside looking in, my heart goes out to them because they misunderstand the nature of Gods character. I only started this thread to share one point but I am so very glad you added to this. May the Lord continue to enlighten your study of His Word.
God bless you,
your brother in Christ,
Albert R.

 

[mattfivefour]

Just did a search and found this on one got questions page that defines their stated belief https://www.gotquestions.org/arminianism.html:

Four-point Calvinism (the official position of Got Questions Ministries) finds the other four points of Arminianism to be unbiblical, to varying degrees. Romans 3:10–18 strongly argues for total depravity. Conditional election, or election based on God’s foreknowledge of human action, underemphasizes God’s sovereignty (Romans 8:28–30). Resistible grace underestimates the power and determination of God. Conditional salvation makes salvation a reward for work rather than a gift of grace (Ephesians 2:8–10). There are problems with both systems, but we see Calvinism as more biblically based than Arminianism. However, both systems fail to adequately explain the relationship between God’s sovereignty and mankind’s free will—due to the fact that it is impossible for a finite human mind to discern a concept only God can fully understand.

Yes, Greg, that is clearly written by a Calvinist. Let's look at the Got Questions arguments point by point.

"Romans 3:10–18 strongly argues for total depravity." ​

Respectfully, no it does not. The context of Romans 3 (as of Romans 9, and as of any other passage of Scripture) must govern interpretation of any verses from that passage. Here the passage begins at verse 1. Paul begins with the words,

"1 What then is the superiority of the Jew? Or what is the benefit of the circumcision? 2 Much in every way. For chiefly indeed, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God. 3 What if indeed some disbelieved? Will their unbelief nullify the faithfulness of God? 4 Never may it be! But let God be true, and every man a liar, as it has been written: 'That You may be justified in Your words, and will prevail in Your being judged.” 5 But if our unrighteousness shows God’s righteousness, what shall we say? God, inflicting the wrath, is unrighteous? I speak according to man. 6 Never may it be! Otherwise, how will God judge the world?"
​

Clearly Paul here is speaking of God's right to judge justly those who rebel against Him. In no way is Paul making the argument that all are rebels and not seeking God. And when, starting at verse 10, he quotes the fourteenth Psalm, he does so to show of whom God is speaking. Read Psalm 14:4 "Do all the workers of wickedness not know, who eat up my people as they eat bread, and do not call upon the Lord?" Clearly the psalmist is speaking of the wicked on earth, not all on earth, when he writes this psalm. It begins with the words "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.'" That is the subject, the one who rejects the existence of God ... not those among humankind who seek for God.

"Conditional election, or election based on God’s foreknowledge of human action, underemphasizes God’s sovereignty (Romans 8:28–30)."​

No, it doesn't. Again with the greatest of respect for our fellow ministers at Got Questions, they are once more wrong in this instance. The passage reads,

"And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified."
​

A careless reading, or a reading with a predetermined view in mind will doubtless make you think God predestined some for salvation and others for damnation. But read it carefully. And don't fall into the trap of deciding that "foreknowledge" actually means "foreordination". That is simply the old rhetorician's trick of redefining a word so as to change the argument in your favor. When viewed simply and straightforwardly this passage says that God foreknew those who would come to salvation, and these he predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. You see, it is being IN Christ that saves us. Therefore, He conforms to that image all those whom He foreknew. And He then called those whom He foreknew and predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son and, thus being in His Son's image, He justified them (in due time saving them upon the profession of their faith in Christ and His finished work, as Scripture teaches us); and those who are saved are already glorified in position, though the condition awaits the ending of this life and the entering into of the next. Careless reading simply jumps on the word "predestined" and hauls it out of its true context, giving it another one. That is how the entire idea of limited atonement began.

Getting back to the Book of Romans, early on it also contains a clear example of God's fair and loving justice—a justice not based on some sovereign election. Read Romans 1:18-32. It refutes the idea of God's sovereign election entirely. You see, Romans 1:28 says, "And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper." Who made the initial decision? Man. He "did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer." That was his choice. What does God do? He responds to man's rejection of Him by letting man have what he wants. Man chose to reject God, God chose to let man have his way. He "gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which were not proper." In other words, he abandoned them to their own choices. THAT, my friends, is a display of God's sovereignty; not choosing to save some and destroy others!

Resistible grace underestimates the power and determination of God. ​

Um, no it doesn't. It manifests it. The explanation of why I say that—why I CAN say that—is in my original post. Grace that is irresistible is an imposition, not a gift. Being dragged kicking and screaming into the Kingdom is not the way God does things. It is not the way you would secure a bride; it is not the way God would either. Love contains no compulsion. The object of one's affection must always be freely willing, or it is not love that underlies the relationship.

Isaiah 30:18 assures us that God longs to be gracious to the sinner. He is a God of compassion and a God of justice. He waits for us to turn to Him. If you long for Him, He will be found of you for He will draw close to you that He may be found. This is not sovereign election of some, this is sovereign love for all.

Conditional salvation makes salvation a reward for work rather than a gift of grace (Ephesians 2:8–10).​

Well, that is a most clever argument, but one that is of as erroneous logic as all of the preceding Calvinist arguments. Salvation that one may either accept or reject has no component of works and consequent boasting in it. Now, the Calvinist would say, "Yes, it does. You can boast that you accepted the offer. Therefore you are better than the one who rejected it." God already foresaw that argument and dealt with it in the passage the Calvinists themselves use. What does it say about the faith through which we receive the gift of salvation made available to us by God's grace? "It is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God ... so that no one may boast." See? God gives grace to accept along with the gift itself. Since he has given "to every man the measure of faith," all have the opportunity to accept salvation. But some would rather reject it than accept it. Why? God gave the answer to Nicodemus:

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed." (John 3: 16-20)
​

Note, first of all that God loved "the world". That is a plain and simple reference to all of humankind. He loved us all. In fact He loves us all to the extent that He "is not willing that any should perish." (2 Peter 3:9) Then note that He gave His Son for the salvation for all the world. But some will not come, solely because they are content in their wickedness and do not want it to be exposed. In other words, God allows them to choose the object of their existence— light or darkness. And if they persist in choosing darkness, as we saw in Romans 1:28, God gives them over to their own choices.

There are problems with both systems, but we see Calvinism as more biblically based than Arminianism.
Both systems fail to adequately explain the relationship between God’s sovereignty and mankind’s free will​

Yes, there are problems with both systems. But neither Calvinism nor Arminianism is "more biblically based" than the other (although Arminianism has a far better grasp of the character of God than does Calvinism.) Both misunderstand key concepts by misinterpreting key scriptures. That is why I and many of my fellow ministers (including BuzzardHut one of the founders here on RF) hold to what is called Proportional Theology, which seeks the truth of the entirety of God's Word and thus winds up in middle ground between Calvinism and Arminianism. I encourage those on one side or the other to start from scratch in their study of this topic: in time I think they will wind up where we have wound up, too.

...due to the fact that it is impossible for a finite human mind to discern a concept only God can fully understand.​

No, this is a cop-out. Actually it is an apologia for Calvinism— for if you hold to Calvinism you indeed have issues that confound man's mind and, thus, you need to say that only God can fully understand them. I would disagree. I believe that if you hold to scripture and its ample revelation of God—not as a stern, austere sovereign, quick to anger at those who do not obey His will and equally quick to both avenge Himself and impose His will, but as a good and loving God who is not seeking ways to keep people out of His Kingdom but always seeking ways to bring them in, and who both desires and is inexorably working toward the full restoration of all things to Himself, using the principles of love and justice at the core of all He does—then you will have no difficulty seeing the errors of Calvinism and the pitfalls of Arminianism.

I hope this helps someone.

 

[Brother Albert R.]

I read JVM all the time and also don't think he is a Calvinist. I'll have to look for it, but he does state in one of his Thru the Bible books that he is a Calvinist. I was just trying to make a point that bits of Calvinism are all over the place and it's a tough subject for me to wade through everyone's teaching and determine who to listen to and who to avoid.
I used JVM this mormig in response to Mattforfive's post this morning about Unconditional Election. He used Romans 9:15 as the Calvinist stance on the subject. This is where JVM in his book states that he was saved because God made the choice, not him. I'll quote that later when I get home. When I read this this morning I thought to myself, who can I read? Where do you draw the line? Can someone be a Calvinist and not hold to all the points?

I just don't know how we can call one a false teacher and tell others to avoid them and then support others who hold bits and pieces of the same values. I obviously have not studied Calvinism, so hence all the questions.

If J. Vernon McGee is a Calvinist, I guess you could call me the same because I think he is correct in his teachings.

Hello Jeff,
My advice is not to worry about the controversial stuff. Just do your best to be a Berean. When I first became a Christian in 1979 and started to read the bible, I was asked by another brother, "Understand what thou readest?" and I replied, "How can I unless some one explains it to me?" He replied that I should always pray before I read because we need God's Holy Spirit to enlighten us more than we need someone else to always explain the scriptures to us. That was, and is the best advice I have ever gotten. It has been when I let others do all the bible studying for me and follow what they say that I have gotten myself in trouble. I am not saying that God doesn't have teachers in His church (such as Mattfivefour), it is obvious that He does, but it is our responsibility to hold what anyone teaches in light of what God teaches us in His Word. I guarantee you that as you pray and read His word, He will guide you into all Truth.
God bless you,
your brother in Christ,
Albert R.

 

[Brother Albert R.]

Hello Mattfivefour,
I know you are busy, so take as much time as you like to address the following. I think your insights might help create unity as far as this topic is concerned. I asked this to others but now I would like to see your wisdom on this.
"What are the essentials of the Christian faith?" I know we are to have unity in the essential, liberty in non-essential and show charity in everything. But what are the basic beliefs that separate a real believer from a false believer? Are they found in any of the old creeds? I know they are to be biblical, but what are they?
God bless you,
your brother in Christ,
Albert R.

 

[mattfivefour]

At the moment, I honestly do not have the time to answer this, brother. Weekends are always the busiest times for ministry. But I promise I will try to give you an answer once Monday comes.

 

[mattfivefour]

As I messaged you, Albert, I am tied up in a Baptist state-wide leadership summit until Wednesday at supper, so I will not be able to answer your question until Thursday at the earliest. When I do answer, I will place it into a brand new thread rather than in this Calvinism thread.

 

[Brother Albert R.]

As I messaged you, Albert, I am tied up in a Baptist state-wide leadership summit until Wednesday at supper, so I will not be able to answer your question until Thursday at the earliest. When I do answer, I will place it into a brand new thread rather than in this Calvinism thread.

Thanks Adrian,
That would be great.
God bless you,
your brother in Christ,
Albert R.

 

[mattfivefour]

I have posted my response at https://www.raptureforums.com/forums/threads/the-essentials-of-the-christian-faith.124579/

 

[clouds]

Conditional salvation makes salvation a reward for work rather than a gift of grace (Ephesians 2:8–10).​

Well, that is a most clever argument, but one that is of as erroneous logic as all of the preceding Calvinist arguments. Salvation that one may either accept or reject has no component of works and consequent boasting in it. Now, the Calvinist would say, "Yes, it does. You can boast that you accepted the offer. Therefore you are better than the one who rejected it." God already foresaw that argument and dealt with it in the passage the Calvinists themselves use. What does it say about the faith through which we receive the gift of salvation made available to us by God's grace? "It is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God ... so that no one may boast." See? God gives grace to accept along with the gift itself. Since he has given "to every man the measure of faith," all have the opportunity to accept salvation. But some would rather reject it than accept it.

This does not seem to be a good argument, although I agree that man's free will seems to have a role that Calvinism does not allow for. I don't like the Arminian "common grace" explanation either.
My problem with the term "to every man the measure of faith" being used to describe "ALL have the opportunity to accept salvation" is that "all" implies mankind in its entirety, and (Ephesians 2:8-10) is describing saved people only and not all of mankind.
The term "to every man the measure of faith" is found in (Romans 12:3) and (Ephesians 4:7). Both of these verses are directed only to the already saved if the context is looked into.

 

[mattfivefour]

Clouds, thank you for your reply. I am not sure why you do not like the term "common grace". Perhaps it is because theologically both Arminians and Calvinists have defined it as God's undeserved favor, sovereignly given, whose benefits are experienced by the whole human race without distinction between one person and another, believers or unbelievers. A careful investigation of the topic in Scripture show this is an erroneous definition. But so, equally, is the Calvinist doctrine of "special (or saving) grace." To me, based on Scripture, the proper definition of "common grace" is not that it's a grace whose benefits are experienced by the whole human race; but, rather, that it's a grace whose benefits are available to the whole human race, any member of which may experience that grace and its benefits by accepting God's means of receiving that grace: ie: salvation through faith in Christ's substitutionary death on the Cross.

In any case, your dislike of the term is not what I wished to reply to. Instead, I wanted to deal with your comments regarding the limiting of the word "all", in the passages you referenced, to the people to whom those passages were addressed.

Yes, the passages to which you refer, indeed are addressed to the saved. But who are these saints, these saved ones, to whom God is speaking in these passages? They are none other than former lost souls who have passed from death to life by accepting the gracious gift of God's salvation "by faith" which—according to Ephesians 2:8—is not a product of their works but of God's grace. Don't let your theology get derailed by the faulty logic of thinking that because God is speaking to the saved (regardless of whether they are in Rome or Ephesus or anywhere else) that his reference to the mechanism of their salvation is limited to them alone by virtue of the fact that they are saved. On the contrary, He is speaking to a specific group about a general truth that is universally active.

"ALL" in any scriptural context regarding salvation must refer to ALL mankind, for when Jesus revealed to Nicodemus that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life, He meant what He said. And that is that He loves "the world"—which, according to the meaning of the word He used, is to say "every human being who has ever lived or ever will live." As a consequence, Jesus says, God gave Him as the sole means of saving ALL who would believe. Clearly this is of the same cloth as Christ's statement in Matthew 18:14 and Peter's expansion in 2 Peter 3:9 that God does not desire for any soul to be lost, but that ALL would come to salvation. Thus, we must accept that the giving of faith is to ALL men, for John 6:44 plainly says that no one can come to Christ except that the Father draws them ... unless you want to accept the false hyper-Calvinist doctrine that God has determined to create some of us to be eternally saved, regardless of ourselves and our desires, and some of us to be eternally lost in the never-ceasing fires of torment, regardless of ourselves and our desires. In other words, God's grace is irresistible and His atonement is limited. If so, then free will is of no consequence; in fact, it is a fiction—it does not exist. On that basis, you have to throw out half of the Bible as it regards God's character, His purposes, and His plan of salvation, or you must construct rationalizations to reconcile the word of God with your view of God, or you must find ways to redefine words in order to preserve your doctrine.

I hope this helps.

 

[Andrew]

The Calvinists and Arminians both seem to hold the view that there are only two positions, leading them to argue that theirs must be correct one because the other is so clearly wrong. This is not the case, both are in error. Mattfivefour has set out the truth.

 

[Jonathan]

I am going to go about this one on a very round about way. I listened to hours and hours of JVM on BBN (Bible Broadcasting Radio, and never got a hint of Calvinism). I'm not saying he was anything distinctly else, but it begs the question:

If you are a Calvinist, why bother preaching anyways? Self-edification?

To school and refine those predestined to be saved?

(I'm being serious here, not sarcastic).

Anyways, I thought JVM had a lot of great things to teach. I learned a good deal from him. Never got the "Calvinist" vibe from him, but then again, I'm no expert.

Did he really claim to be a Calvinist?

 

[Jonathan]

Follow up:

 

[Jonathan]

Follow up:

(Last to the punch. Fellow bro already beat me to it).

 

[Jonathan]

Look, I'm not a Theologian, but the only way that Calvinism makes sense is not as a philosophy or an approach or as a strategy to become saved (which is an impossibility under Calvinism, if I understand it correctly (and besides, only acceptance of Christ's free gift can do that)) but simply a recognition that god is infinite and outside of time and, as Alpha and Omega, knows the beginning from the end. But that is where, in my humble opinion, Calvinism falls short.

These can be tricky concepts, because while He, our saviour, is outside of time, we are not.

Choose wisely. He may know what we choose in advance but we are not predestined by any means. We have free will. Just because He is omniscient and knows our choices well in advance, during, and after, and our fate... does not mean we are predestined.

On the contrary. It just means He is God.

He is outside of time. We are still in it.

Glory be to Him.

 

[WaitingForTheTrumpet]

120 Contradictions from Calvinists

Why Create This List?

I’ve compiled this list of contradictions and double-speak from the experiences I have had with 5 point Calvinists to show the “doctrines of grace” do not rightly divide the Word of Truth which demonstrates Calvinists don’t have the sound mind God requires of someone who is approved of God (2 Timothy 2:15).
I do concede that not everyone who claims this doctrine actually believes it in their hearts and I give grace in those situations. I also know sometimes people can simply be confused about these things and haven’t thought through the logical implications. Having said this any teachings about God’s character and nature which go against the knowledge of God should be cast down (2 Corinthians 10:5). The bible teaches in Galatians 5:9 the universal truth that “a little leaven leavens the whole lump.” While Calvinists teach some truth there are many errors within. The battle is for the truth of who God is which is reflected in the gospel message of salvation. People who lie about who God is, intentional or not, is going to cause problems that may lead someone away from the truth of the real Jesus.
I’m not infallible nor claim to be. What I know for sure is if a doctrine contradicts itself something is wrong. And if that happens repeating the errors of that doctrine to others will only confuse people further and lead them to behave and do things which are contrary to living out Christ’s life in us.
I’ve seen the Calvinist system of theology cause damage to the body of Christ in witnessing ministries (Descent Into Error Part 1). I’ve heard of seminary students leave seminary because they were taught “Calvinistic” predestination, something they have not read in Scripture. I’ve had people tell me their faith was shaken because they don’t know if they are one of the elect God chose. I’ve seen Calvinists confuse the lost by telling them to believe the gospel but God must make them believe. I’ve had Calvinists tell me Calvinism is the gospel and if I don’t believe it I’m going to hell because I have a “works based salvation.” I’ve seen Calvinists change the words of the bible to make their doctrine fit.
These are not minor issues! Christians should rise up and pray that God will purge this doctrine from the minds of those who are ensnared by its contradictory ideas. There are some, such as evangelist Mark Cahill, who have publicly exposed the dangers of this doctrine.
Causing Division?
Am I causing division? Not at all. Its not ME causing division, its the DOCTRINE of Calvinism causing division because it teaches different doctrines about God than what Jesus or the Apostles taught. Reformed Theology started with Augustine then John Calvin not with the Scriptures. These are not DEEPER truths but DIFFERENT truths about who God is. Calvinism changes the personality of God.
Romans 16:17
Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.
John MacArthur, who is a Calvinist, ironically, agrees with the idea that representing God in ways other than what He truly is a SEVERE thing. Writing about the problems within the Charismatic movement he says:
“In Exodus chapter 20, we’re instructed about God and the first half of the commandments relate to Him, to not make a graven image, and it all ends up with “Don’t take the Lord’s name…what?…in vain.” Okay. Taking His name in vain. What is that? It is to speak of God in any irreverent manner…to speak of God in any irreverent manner. It’s not just using God’s name as a curse word, it is to speak of God in any irreverent manner, anyway that misrepresents Him in His nature, in His attributes, and His works or in His words. Anything attributed to God that is not of God is taking His name in vain. To think of God, to conceive of God, to refer to God as other than He is and to assign to Him things He would never do, words He would never say is to take His name in vain. It isn’t just swearing, it is ignoring what is true about God. It is misrepresenting God. This is the most severe thing.” http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/TM13-1/strange-fire-john-macarthur
I’m not a Charismatic and I agree with him that the movement has major issues.
Having said that what John MacArthur said above is exactly the point. Any belief system that misrepresents what God has said, what God does, and what God is like is in major error.
One would think John MacArthur would apply that standard to all non-Calvinists but he doesn’t for some reason. Maybe the only way to sneak in Calvinism unawares is to claim “Calvinism isn’t essential” so it can be taught to the masses.
I find it hypocritical how some Christians say Calvinism is not an essential issue with non-Calvinists, and then these same people judge other ministries as wrong when they teach something God didn’t say. or describe things God doesn’t do!
In his book The Knowledge Of The Holy A.W. Tozer says:
“Before the Christian church goes into eclipse anywhere, there must first be the corrupting of her simple basic theology. She simply gets a wrong answer to the question, “What is God like?” Though she may continue to cling to a sound nominal creed, her practical working creed has become false. The masses of her adherents come to believe that God is different from what He actually is; and that is heresy of the most insidious and deadly kind.”
In the 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language the word “Blasphemy” is defined as:
BLAS’PHEMY, noun An indignity offered to God by words or writing; reproachful, contemptuous or irreverent words uttered impiously against Jehovah.
Blasphemy is an injury offered to God, by denying that which is due and belonging to him, or attributing to him that which is not agreeable to his nature.
Let me illustrate this point further. Many non-Calvinists believe the God of the Bible loves all eternally, the god of Calvin does not. The God of the Bible wants everyone to come to a knowledge of the truth, the god of Calvin does not. The God of the Bible died for all on the cross, the god of Calvin didn’t. The God of the Bible doesn’t take favoritism in His mercy or justice, the god of Calvin does take favoritism. These comparisons could go on and on. Are these the same Gods? No. We are talking about two different beings.
The contradictions below are direct quotes from Calvinists while others are paraphrases of conversations. You, the reader, might be a Calvinist and may object to some of the contradictions as not “representing Calvinism” or “creating characters of Calvinism” or “creating a straw man” because your beliefs differ from the ones below. You may feel there are times I am misrepresenting the “Doctrines of Grace” so I can then “knock them down.” The only thing I am doing is going along with the conversations based on what people tell me they believe. If a straw man is created its the Calvinist who built the straw.
Furthermore, unless you are the “Calvinist Pope” or leader of the Calvinist doctrines you cannot say with 100% certainty your beliefs are the STANDARD by which everyone bows towards. Many Calvinists contradict one another…I’ve seen it happen…in the same day!
Perhaps its you that is incorrect.

Calvinist contradiction #1
Calvinist: “Calvinism is not an essential issue.”
Later in the conversation…Calvinist: “You believe in a false gospel of free-will!”
Me: I guess Calvinism is essential.

Calvinist contradiction #2
Calvinist: “Lets not argue, Christ wants unity between all believers such as Calvinists and non-Calvinists. We shouldn’t divide over the doctrine.”
Later in the conversation they say, “We don’t know who the elect are.”
Me: “If you don’t know who the elect are how do you know we are united in the first place?”

Calvinist contradiction #3
From an email on facebook I received:
Calvinist: “any time you say Calvinism is not true I will rebuke you extremely severely in the name of Jesus Christ! Calvinism is the gospel, you heretic! I read your stupid post even though you are not on my friends list.”
Me: “I am unable to believe in Calvinism because God has decided I don’t believe it. Why are you getting mad at me? I cannot help it.”
Calvinist: “you are blinded by the devil. Do not blame God for your inability to believe the gospel.”
Me: “Are the unelect ‘unable’ to believe the truth?”
Calvinist: “No one is able to believe the truth unless God opens their eyes…”
Me: “I guess its God’s fault after all.”

Calvinist contradiction #4
Tony Miano is witnessing to someone on a video. During the conversation a Christian named Marco walked up to Tony and said he was being too hard and needed to teach more on God’s love. Tony then berated him and said, “So if me in my flesh can push people away from God then you believe in a weak God.” Tony then accused this Christian of “blaspheming God” because “Marcos, you think the gospel needs our help…You don’t believe the gospel is sufficient, Marco!”
Later in the video Tony explained the “correct” gospel to Marco by witnessing to Marco!
Why is Tony showing Marco the “correct” way when he just finished telling Marco “you think the gospel needs our help?” Apparently Tony’s god is “weak” too since he needs Tony to correct Marco.

Calvinist Contradiction #5
Tony Miano is preaching to a crowd and tells them to repent and believe. A few minutes later Tony says “God is a God of love and if He CAUSES you to be born again, THEN you can repent and THEN you can believe.”
He told the crowd “they” must repent and believe and now he is saying GOD MUST DO IT…very confusing to unbelievers….and everyone else.

Calvinist contradiction #6
Calvinist: “God is sovereign in all things. If you don’t believe God gave you the faith to believe you are going against Gods sovereignty!”
Me: “But if I can go against Gods sovereignty than God isn’t sovereign in all things.”
Think about that for a second.

Calvinist contradiction #7
Calvinist: “God does not predestine people for heaven and hell. He simply passes over those people not saving them.”
Me: “Who makes the decision to pass certain people over not saving them?”
Calvinist: “God.”
Me: “Sounds like God predestines people for heaven or hell.”

Calvinist contradiction #8
Calvinist: “God isn’t obligated to respond to a person’s faith. God is completely sovereign and isn’t controlled by what people do.”
Me: “Does God get angry at a sinners sin?”
Calvinst: “Yes.”
Me: “Then I guess God is controlled by what men do.”

Calvinist contradiction #9
I decided to take a systematic theology class at my old church which was taught by a 5 point Calvinist named Mark Krystyniak. During this time in my life I believed what Calvinists told me, that Calvinism is not an essential issue.
In the very first class we listened to a sermon on God’s sovereignty and in that sermon the speaker said if I didn’t believe in God’s sovereignty (as he was defining it by Calvinism) I’m an idolator.
But I thought Calvinism is not an essential issue?
Mark, who was leading the class told me later Calvinism is not an essential issue, then why is he showing the class a sermon that suggests the opposite?
Answer: Because he really believes Calvinism is essential and is trying to trick people into believing it is when he tells them its not. This is not the only time I have had Calvinists hide their doctrines under the guise of “its not essential” and then turn around later and say it really is. Very deceptive.

Calvinist contradiction #10
Calvinist: “Calvinism is not an essential issue. The essentials are the Trinity, the deity of Christ, Christ’s physical resurrection, salvation by grace through faith.”
Later in the conversation…
Calvinist: “If you believe people can respond to the gospel using their free will you are a heretic.”
Me: “I guess the list of essentials is growing as we speak. You may want to include that in the list for the future.”

Calvinist contradiction #11
Calvinist: “Unbelievers are blinded by total depravity, they are unable to believe.”
Me: “Then why did God blind some of the Jews from believing if they are already blinded? Or why does satan blind people from the gospel if they are already unable to believe it? It sounds to me like people can be led astray, which means they can believe. In fact the bible says EXACTLY what is blinding sinners from believing the gospel, its Satan (2 Corinthians 4:4), not total inability.”

Calvinist contradiction #12
Calvinist: “Christ saved His own at the cross. The elect are never condemned.”
Me: “But wouldn’t that mean when you were born you were saved?”
Calvinist: “That would mean you are an unregenerate goat. Elect but not elect yet.”
Me: “The bible doesn’t teach this anywhere. It teaches those who don’t believe are condemned already (John 3:18) and you just told me the elect are never condemned.”

Calvinist contradiction #13
Me: “What do you think God does with mentally handicapped people who might be unable to believe in Christ?”
Calvinist: “God is merciful and would choose them for salvation.”
Me: “What do you think God does with other people who are unable to believe in Christ because they are totally depraved?”
Calvinist: “God sends them to hell.”

Calvinist contradiction #14
Calvinist: “The word ‘chosen’ in the bible means chosen for salvation.”
Me: “You mean like this?”
John 6:70
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Calvinist contradiction #15
Calvinist: “The bible says to rightly divide the word of truth so any contradictions should be studied until they are no longer contradictions.”
Me: “What about the contradiction between God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility?”
Calvinist: “Thats ok if we don’t understand that…thats a mystery.”
Why are contradictions in other ministries EXPOSED AS ERROR by Calvinists but not the ones in their own doctrine which are ACCEPTED as “mysteries?”

Calvinist contradiction #16
Calvinist: “Do not add or take away from God’s Word.”
Me: “The bible says Christ died for the world, for whosoever, for any, for all of mankind.”
Calvinist: “No it doesn’t! ‘World’ doesn’t mean all and ‘all’ doesn’t mean ‘all.’

Calvinist contradiction #17
Calvinist: “God showed me the truth of Calvinism through the bible.”
Me: “What did God show you?”
Calvinist: “If you read <insert reformed teachers name here> book that sums up my beliefs.”
Me: “Are you sure you got this new doctrine from God?”

Calvinist contradiction #18
Calvinist: “God showed me the truth of Calvinism through the bible.”
A few years later this same Calvinist: “I no longer believe in limited atonement.”
Me: “Are you sure God showed you Calvinism in the first place?”
Calvinist: silence.

Calvinist contradiction #19
(On Facebook) Calvinist: “We shouldn’t divide over Calvinism.”
Me: “I don’t believe in the doctrines of grace.”
Calvinist: “Then I’m defriending you for blaspheming God!”

Calvinist contradiction #20
Calvinist: “People go to hell because they reject the gospel.”
Me: “I thought you said the unsaved were people whom Christ never died for?”
Calvinist: “Yes thats true.”
Me: “So the unsaved are going to hell for rejecting a salvation that isn’t mean’t for them? This is like saying I will send you to prison for not coming to my party, but I never invited you to my party!”

Calvinist contradiction #21
Calvinist preaching to a crowd: “God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. God wants all to come to a knowledge of the truth.”
Me: “Wait, you don’t believe that, you believe God is not willing that the ELECT should perish and God only wants SOME people to come to a knowledge of the truth, so why are you lying to the crowd giving them a wrong impression?”

Calvinist contradiction #22
Me: “If a strong body builder places a gun in your hand, then grabs your arm and forces you to shoot someone are you responsible for doing this?”
Calvinist: “No, because the body builder forced me to do it.”
Me: “Was Judas forced by God to betray Christ?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “Is Judas responsible for betraying Christ?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”

Calvinist contradiction #23
Calvinist: “While witnessing I would never tell a sinner God loves them because I wouldn’t want to give them a false hope.”
Me: “What happens when the sinner is concerned about going to hell?”
Calvinist: “I would share with them the good news that Christ died for their sins on the cross.”
Me: “Why would Christ die for their sins?”
Calvinist: “Because He loves them.”

Calvinist contradiction #24
Calvinist: “In John 17:9 Christ prays only for believers in the Gospel of John which proves He doesn’t love unbelievers.”
Me: “Have you ever prayed for your children?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “Does this imply you love them and no one else in the world?”
Calvinist: silence.
Me: “Christ prayed ‘Forgive them Father for they know not what they do.’ Sounds like Christ is praying for unbelievers.”

Calvinist contradiction #25
Calvinist 1: “I believe <insert reformed doctrine here>”
Later that day talking to another Calvinist…
Calvinist 2: “Your misrepresenting Calvinism! We don’t believe <insert reformed doctrine from Calvinist 1 here>.”

Calvinist contradiction #26
Calvinist: “I like Calvinism because I don’t have to worry about whether I spoke incorrectly to a sinner while witnessing. God does it all.”
Me: “Is there a wrong way and a right way to preaching the gospel?”
Calvinist: “Oh yes! The gospel must be presented accurately.”
Me: “Then I guess you better be careful how you speak.”

Calvinist contradiction #27
Calvinist: “<insert false teacher here> is teaching <insert false doctrine here>!”
Me: “You sound concerned. Can someone predestined for heaven go to hell?”
Calvinist: “No.”
Me: “Can someone predestined for hell go to heaven?”
Calvinist: “No.”
Me: “Then why are you concerned about what false teachers teach?”
Calvinist: “Because God uses the gospel to save people and false teachers are preventing that.”
Me: “A false teacher can prevent predestination? I didn’t realize they were more sovereign than God.”

Calvinist contradiction #28
Calvinist: “Those Westboro Baptist Calvinists are so wrong to hold up signs telling people God hates them!”
Me: “Do you believe God hates all evil doers?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “I assume since all people are sinners they are doing evil which means God hates everyone?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “Then why are you upset at the Westboro Baptists for telling the truth as you believe it?”

Calvinist contradiction #29
Calvinist: “God hates all evildoers”
Me: “Did God love His own while they were evildoers?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “Then God doesn’t hate everyone.”

Calvinist contradiction #30
Calvinist: “The bible says unbelievers cannot do anything good. Romans 8:7 says unbelievers cannot obey God’s law.”
Me: “Does the bible say the conscience is God’s law written on the hearts of everyone?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “When you were an unbeliever did you ever obey your conscience, even once?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: Apparently Romans 8:7 is not teaching unbelievers are not able to do “anything good”. The text doesn’t say that. It says they aren’t able to obey the law of God, and in the context of the bible as a whole this means an unbeliever cannot obey the ten commandments perfectly, nobody can, this is why everyone needs a savior.”

Calvinist contradiction #31
Calvinist: “Calvinists are the most humble of Christians since we believe God does everything and we can do nothing.”
Me: “You sound proud of your humility.”

Calvinist contradiction #32
Calvinist: “Calvinism is growing which means its from God.”
Me: “I thought truth was based on truth and not popularity?”

Calvinist contradiction #33
Calvinist: “People go to hell because God hates the sinner and their sin! Sinners owe God their allegiance! After all He gave them life, family, food, friends, air to breathe, and they respond to this kindness with unbelief.”
Me: “You told me before sinners cannot believe in God unless God gives them the ability to believe?”
Calvinist: “This is true.”
Me: “Sinners are not UNWILLING to do what God wants they are UNABLE. Then why is God getting angry at people who are unable to do what He wants?”

Calvinist contradiction #34
Calvinist: “Jesus said anyone who does the will of the Father goes to heaven. The unelect do not do God’s will.”
Me: “Did God predestine the unelect for damnation?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “Then by going to hell they are doing God’s will.”

Calvinist contradiction #35
Calvinist: “God is sovereign in all things! He does whatever He wants. You can’t trap God in a box!”
Me: “But you told me before God MUST change a sinner’s heart so they can believe? This is the only way.”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “I guess you have trapped God in a box.”

Calvinist contradiction #36
Calvinist: “You are misrepresenting Calvinism! We do not believe <insert reformed doctrine here.>
Me: “Some Calvinists I speak with tell me <insert reformed doctrine here>.
Calvinist: “Well they are idiots!”
Me: “Are you the pope of Calvinism or the leader of the Calvinists?”
Calvinist: “No.”
Me: “Then you cannot make that call, perhaps you are wrong and you should listen to that other Calvinist.”

Calvinist contradiction #37
Calvinist: “God gives faith and repentance to unbelievers. God does it all.”
Me: “Is the sinner actually repenting and exercising faith through their free will?”
Calvinist: “Yes when God gives these to them.”
Me: “Then I guess God doesn’t do it all.”

Calvinist contradiction #38
Me: “Take a classroom of say 20 people and put earplugs in their ears. Now give them some instructions. Then take their earplugs out. Will they obey your instructions?”
Calvinist: “No, they couldn’t hear me.”
Me: “Are you angry at them for disobeying your instructions?”
Calvinist: “Why would I be angry, they can’t hear me! It wouldn’t be right for me to get angry.”
Me: “Then why is God angry with totally depraved sinners in the same condition?”

Calvinist contradiction #39
Calvinist: “Since you claim it was YOU who believed the gospel and God didn’t regenerate your heart beforehand, you have a works based salvation and you are not saved. God had nothing to do with you believing, you believed ON YOUR OWN.”
Me: “How could I believe ON MY OWN if I am totally depraved and unable to believe ON MY OWN?”

Calvinist contradiction #40
Calvinist: (said sarcastically) William’s “god” is the ever-frustrated “god” that “hopes” men will come to “him” and heed “his” aid because according to William man has “free will” with concerning his salvation
Me: “Here God is FRUSTRATED with Israel since He did everything He could and it wasn’t enough.”
Isaiah 5:4
4 WHAT MORE COULD HAVE BEEN DONE TO MY VINEYARD THAT I HAVE NOT DONE IN IT? Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes, Did it bring forth wild grapes?
Me: “In the verse below God is FRUSTRATED at Jerusalem for not coming to Him.”
Matthew 23:37
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! HOW OFTEN I WANTED to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
Me: “Here God is limited by what men do.”
Psalm 78:41
Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.
Mark 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
Mark 6:6 And he marveled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.”
Me: By the way, having said this God can and still does execute His plans even though people have free-will to disobey.


Calvinist contradiction #41
Calvinist: “Christ did not die on the cross for everyone, but only for certain people.”
Me: “Christ died for the false teachers who deny Him in 2 Peter 2:1 and when He broke bread and drank wine to the Apostles He told them His body and blood will be shed for them…JUDAS WAS AT THE TABLE…Christ “tasted death for every man” so Christ did die for all. Not to mention the verses that actually say ALL and WORLD.”

Calvinist contradiction #42
Calvinist: “The totally depraved cannot obey God, even once.”
Me: “Did God put a conscience in every human heart?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “What is the conscience?”
Calvinist: “Its God’s law.”
Me: “Does the conscience go AGAINST the will of the sinner?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “Did you ever obey your conscience even once before you were a Christian?”
Calvinist: “Well, yes.”
Me: “Then I guess you could obey God one time. You may want to reinterpret any verses you think says the opposite.”

Calvinist contradiction #43
Calvinist: “The totally depraved cannot obey God, even once.”
Me: “Does God create sinners to be destroyed?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “Then they are obeying God by doing what God created them to be!”

Calvinist contradiction #45
Calvinist: “I know you are totally depraved because you don’t believe in Calvinistic election. You can’t believe me so you are a goat.”
Me:”If I’m a goat thats scary!”
Calvinist: “If a false teacher and believer have their faith disturbed,I say GREAT!…if teaching His word is scary to many,then they need to heed what I say and check what I say…”
Me: “Why are you telling me to check out what you say when I am unable to understand the verses you give me? Are you mocking my depraved condition?”

Calvinist contradiction #46
Calvinist: “If a false teacher and believer have their faith disturbed,I say GREAT!…if teaching His word is scary to many,then they need to heed what I say and check what I say…”
Me: “You seem to be saying a person’s fear will cause me to heed and listen to your words? Does this mean fear is more sovereign over God? My fear will force God to regenerate me?”

Calvinist contradiction #47
Calvinist: “You believe in Roman Catholicism with a few less bells and whistles.”
Me: “If I am a Roman Catholic without all the bells and whistles then I am not Roman Catholic! The bells and whistles, Catholics say, are required for salvation!”

Calvinist contradiction #48
Calvinist: “YOU BELIEVED in Jesus name by your own power when BELIEF doesn’t save anyone, Grace does. Belief is a response to being made born again by God’s choice.”
Me: “The bible clearly says repeatedly to BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. You are telling people to avoid doing the very thing God calls them to do…believe on Him to be saved, which is an act of the sinners will!”

Calvinist contradiction #49
Calvinist: “When you get to the judgment just tell Christ, I made it Lord ! I could have told you no but I SAID YES,I’m not like those others who denied you,nope, I FIGURED IT OUT because I’m more spiritual that the rest.”
Me: “How could I have FIGURED IT OUT when Calvinism says I am totally unable to figure it out?”

Calvinist contradiction #50
Calvinist: “God creates people to be destroyed for His own good pleasure and purpose. Thats fine with me. God can do what He wants.”
Me: “Ok, then I will pray your child is a goat.”
Calvinist: “You shouldn’t pray that about my child!”
Me: “You tell me God is glorified by sending people to hell. Apparently its ok for people you don’t care about to be created for destruction for God’s own good pleasure. But when its someone you love its not ok? This is called hypocrisy…pretending to be interested in God’s glory in the damnation of people…unless its someone you love and then you don’t like it.”

Calvinist contradiction #51
This is from a newsletter I received from Mike Gendron’s ministry. I didn’t speak with him personally but I have included my comments since what he says is typical contradictory rhetoric from Calvinists. Read this carefully and notice the uppercase wording (my emphasis).
Calvinist Mike Gendron writing to a Catholic in a newsletter: “I HAD A CRISIS OF FAITH WHEN I KNEW I HAD TO MAKE A CHOICE between believing the Word of God and the traditions of my religion. IT WAS THEN that God granted me repentance from the fatal errors of Catholicism and ENABLED ME TO BELIEVE the Word of God. The Spirit of God brought me to life after being spiritually dead for over 30 years. To answer your question, the only way a Catholic, or anyone else, can be saved is when God extends His sovereign grace to a repenting sinner WHO HAS PLACED HIS FAITH in the Lord Jesus Christ alone. When this supernatural event takes place, the new creature in Christ is sanctified by the truth and called to walk in the truth. THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE IF YOU REMAIN IN A FALSE RELIGION…WE WILL PRAY FOR GOD TO DRAW YOU, your dad and your stepmother to Christ (John 6:44).”
My Comments: “Mike said it was only when he realized he must make a choice between the bible and Catholicism that God granted him repentance and faith. How could Mike have a crisis in faith before regeneration? How could Mike know he had to make a choice between the word of God or Catholic tradition? Knowing you must make a choice means he already understands what the bible says since it conflicts with Catholicism! Something Calvinists say a dead sinner cannot understand!”
Me: “Mike then says God extends His sovereign grace to a repenting sinner WHO HAS PLACED HIS FAITH in the Lord…this is faith before regeneration, not regeneration before faith! Furthermore Mike goes on to say that this supernatural event of God, which is giving a sinner faith, won’t happen until he leaves the false religion of Catholicism. But why would a dead sinner want to leave a false religion to the truth unless they already know what the truth is? Something a dead sinner cannot believe in! And is God’s election controlled by a sinner’s willingness to leave a false religion? Calvinists tell me all the time God isn’t moved by what men do.”
Me: “Lastly telling a Catholic they will pray for God to draw him is confusing to the sinner who was just told to make a choice. You never see the Apostles praying this kind of prayer or saying this to sinners.
I like Mike Gendron’s ministry to Catholics but it would be better if Mike would reinterpret his doctrines so they don’t contradict each other and not believe in the contradictory man-made traditions of Calvinism.”

Calvinist contradiction #52
Calvinist: “I would never tell a sinner Christ died for them, thats not part of the gospel! The Apostles never said that to sinners!”
Me: “In 1 Corinthians 15 the Apostle Paul told fellow believers what gospel he taught them BEFORE they were Christians. Part of that message is CHRIST DIED FOR YOUR SINS. He also mentions its the same gospel HE received. So saying Christ died for your sins is part of the gospel.”
1 Corinthians 15
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received , and wherein ye stand ; 2 By which also ye are saved , if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all THAT WHICH I RECEIVED , how that CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried , and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
Calvinist: “Paul was talking to Christians in that verse. Of course Paul would say Christ died for them because they are the elect.”
Me: “Are you saying there is a different gospel for the elect than the unelect?”
Calvinist: “um…well…no.”
Me: “You may want to tell sinners Christ died for them otherwise you aren’t giving them the means by which God saves. This of course may cause you on occasion to lie to the unelect since you believe Christ didn’t die for everyone. I suppose you could stop lying by not evangelizing altogether but then you would be sinning again by not obeying the Great Commission. You could argue God commands you to evangelize and do it anyway but then that means God is commanding you to eventually lie to someone at some point. It seems no matter what you do you are sinning. My goodness what a mess!
There is a simple solution for all this that brings peace of mind. Christ died for all. The truth will set you free!”

Calvinist contradiction #53
Me: “How do you harmonize the contradictory ideas of God’s sovereignty and man’s accountability? You define them as God controls everything and sinners cannot choose Christ but are still responsible for rejecting Him?”
Calvinist: “The bible doesn’t pretend to harmonize them and neither should I!”
Me: “Contradictions mean you aren’t rightly dividing the word of truth which means you aren’t presenting yourself approved of God.”
2 Timothy 2:15
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
“Since you believe contradictions are truth you don’t seem to have the sound mind God has given you.”
2 Timothy 1:7
7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind
Me: “Please rethink the interpretations you have because they don’t demonstrate you have the mind of Christ.”


Calvinist contradiction #54
Calvinist: “I’m witnessing to you because of 1 Peter 3:15, I always want to give a defense of the doctrines of grace. You have pride thinking you believed without God.”
1 Peter 3:15
15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,”
Me: “First, you aren’t making a very good defense of the faith since the doctrines of grace are contradictory to logic, common sense and the bible itself. Secondly, waiting around for God to regenerate me so I can believe is not HOPEFUL, its HOPELESS since God saves very few. Lastly, you aren’t very gentle or respectful since you judge my heart telling me I will stand before God with pride I have saved myself!”

Calvinist contradiction #55
Calvinist: Posting a sign on facebook that says “Repent and be saved come to Jesus today, He doesn’t want to see you suffer in HELL. He wants to give you Eternal Life. COME TODAY because tommorrow it might be too late.”
Me: “Why are you posting a sign that goes against your belief that God does indeed pass over people for hell because he wants them there for his own good pleasure? Why are you suggesting a sinner can come to Jesus when you say they cannot? Why do you continue to put signs like this out and then confuse people later with Calvinistic doctrines that contradict the sign?”

Calvinist contradiction #56
Me: “Is your father saved?”
Calvinist: “No, he hates God so why should God love him?”
Me: “You mean your father’s hatred is causing God to hate your father?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “Why would your father love a god who hated him before he was born? A God who created him for destruction? Who doesn’t love him enough to save him? Will God’s hatred of your Dad bring him to repentance?!?!”

Calvinist contradiction #57
Calvinist: “You can’t use reason and logic! What Scripture says is all that matters!”
Me: “Do you think Joel Olsteen is a false teacher and if you do why?”
Calvinist: “Yes. Because he teaches a prosperity gospel where you can have your best life now. Jesus said believers will have trials, tribulations, and persecution.”
Me: “I agree with you. But you know Joel Olsteen uses Scripture to back up his claims of prosperity?”
Calvinist: “He tries to but those verses cannot mean what he says since it conflicts with other parts of the bible.”
Me: “I agree. So if Joel were honest he should reinterpret those verses that contradict?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “Why don’t you follow your own advice and do the same with your contradictory Calvinist doctrines? It seems to me you may want to remove the log in your own eye before tackling someone else’s beliefs.”

Calvinist contradiction #58
Calvinist: “You don’t understand the verses I am giving you about God giving you faith, which means you are a goat.”
Me: “First, you don’t know who the unelect will be so how do you know I’m a goat? Secondly, where in the bible does it say the gospel is…believing God gives me faith? Where did the Apostles teach or tell a sinner you must believe God gives you faith to be saved? You may believe the bible teaches this concept in other places but NOWHERE do you find the Apostles in the book of Acts telling sinners to believe this concept or they are a goat!”

Calvinist contradiction #59
Calvinist: “Since you believe you had faith on your own without God giving it, you are no different than a Roman Catholic who thinks you must cooperate with God to be saved.”
Me: “I’m definitely not a Roman Catholic! Do you believe you must persevere in good works to prove your saved?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “Has God prepared these good works for you to do?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “Then I guess you must cooperate with God to ensure your salvation. You sound like a Roman Catholic who must cooperate with God to be saved.”

Calvinist contradiction #60
Calvinist: “I believe in Calvinism because the doctrine elevates God’s glory to the max.”
Me: “Does giving God glory mean giving God credit for who He is?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “In Calvinism Christ didn’t die for the unelect so how could the unelect praise God for eternally loving them?”
Calvinist: “Christ didn’t die for the unelect so they wouldn’t glorify His eternal love for them.”
Me: “Exactly! The doctrines of grace, ironically, punify God’s attributes of love. It shows God is holy to all, but certainly not eternally loving to all, thereby contradicting the idea the bible presents that GOD IS LOVE, punifying God’s glory.”

Calvinist contradiction #61
Calvinist: “Calvinists are the most humble of Christians since we believe God does everything and we can do nothing.”
Me: “Did you have to make sure you are walking in obedience to God’s Will?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “Then I guess you have to do something.”

Calvinist contradiction #62
Calvinist: “Sinners who turn to the Lord will have their blindness taken away.2 Corinthians 3
6 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.”
Me: “Yes I believe that, but…how can a sinner turn to Christ when they are, as you say, unable to turn to Christ?”
Calvinist: “God must make someone born again before they can turn to Christ.”
Me: “First, 2 Corinthians 3 doesn’t say that, your man-made philosophy called Calvinism does. Secondly, their blindness has nothing to do with their eternal destiny if Calvinism is true. Its God who decides their eternal destiny in Calvinism. A sinners inability to come to Christ or blindness doesn’t matter…what matters is whether God chose them that matters! Please reinterpret your doctrines so they logically work within themselves.”

Calvinist contradiction #63
Calvinist: “Gods eternal decrees from eternity past stands forever with the wicked and the ones he has declared righteous.”
Me: “Sinners have free will to believe the gospel.”
Calvinist: “ok your freewill trumps Gods decree? I don’t think so.”
Me: “Am I trumping God’s decree by rejecting Calvinism?”
Calvinist: “your free will is trumping Gods decrees!!!!!!!”
Me: “Originally you said God’s eternal decrees from eternity past stands forever, except in my case since I am right now trumping them.”

Calvinist contradiction #64
Calvinist: “You must use a true exegetical hermeneutical form of interpretation of scripture.”
Later in the conversation Calvinist: “I would challenge you to read [the canons of dort]” and “listen I’ve studied the doctrines of grace for years”
Me: “Using the doctrines of men as your interpreter is not a true exegetical hermeneutical form of interpretation of scripture. This is no different than a Catholic using the Catechism to interpret for them, or the Jehovah Witnesses who use the Watchtower to interpret for them, or the Mormons who use the book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Doctrines and Covenants to interpret for them. I’m certain you would condemn these belief systems based on this but you don’t with your own. How contradictory is that! Would you condemn paraphrases such as the Message Bible? I’m sure you would because its a PARAPHRASE of the bible…its someone’s opinion of what the bible says…what you are doing is no different, studying for years the opinions of men thinking this is God speaking to you.”

Calvinist contradiction #65
Calvinist: “If a false teacher and believer have their faith disturbed,I say GREAT!…if teaching His word is scary to many,then they need to heed what I say and check what I say…”
Me: “Have you noticed the people who are afraid after hearing the gospel, such as Felix in the book of Acts, are afraid BECAUSE they UNDERSTAND it..something you say totally depraved sinners cannot do!”

Calvinist contradiction #66
Calvinist: “God sends people to hell for their sin!”
Me: “Do Calvinists believe God hated Esau before he did anything good or bad?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “Sounds like a sinner’s sin has nothing to do with their damnation.”

Calvinist contradiction #67
Calvinist: “It would be fair for God to send all of us to hell since we all deserve it. Its unfair for God to save anyone!”
Me: “If its unfair for God to save anyone than apparently God is going against His own justice system of FAIRNESS. When He takes favoritism on some, as Calvinism states, and sends them to heaven that is also UNFAIR to those whom He didn’t do that for. In order to be just and righteous God must treat everyone with the same level of justice, mercy and love, otherwise its not just. Justice knows nothing of favoritism! If a judge pays the fine for his own kids so they can be set free because he loves them while he doesn’t do that for others sending them to prison never giving them the opportunity to be set free is a corrupt judge, not justice!”

Calvinist contradiction #68
Calvinist: “God ordains ALL things. There is nothing done in the universe outside of God’s will.”
Me: “Did you hear about the 3 year-old daughter and mother diagnosed with cancer at the same time? Isn’t that a tragedy?”
Calvinist: “Yes. Please pray God will pour out his infinite love on them healing them as a testimony of his mercy and power!”
Me: “According to Calvinism God ordained the cancer so why are you going against God’s will by praying for their healing? God has already demonstrated His glory by giving them cancer. Are you trying to undo God’s glory? Why are you going against His Will?”

Calvinist contradiction #69
Calvinist: “God does whatever He wants to whenever He wants to. If you can’t accept the fact that God can violate the will of anyone He desires, then you are not now nor will you ever be able to accept Him as the God He truly is.”
Me: “I didn’t realize the god who can do whatever he wants whenever he wants to including the violation of a person’s will is waiting for my acceptance.”

Calvinist contradiction #70
Calvinist: “The doctrines of grace is the only way to rightly divide the word of truth.”
Me: “<show a verse that contradicts the Calvinist view>”
Calvinist: <ignore it and use the standard verses interpreting them as a Calvinist would.>
Me: “<show another verse that contradicts the Calvinist view>”
Calvinist: <ignore it and use the same standard verses interpreting them as a Calvinist would>
Me: “<show yet another verse that contradicts the Calvinist view>”
Calvinist: <ignore it and use the same standard verses interpreting them as a Calvinist would>
Me: “You don’t seem to be willing to see that contradictions in verses are there because your interpretation is incorrect, elevating your own ideas to infallibility. You aren’t rightly dividing the word of truth by ignoring verses that contradict your belief system. Any verses that contradict are not mysteries but errors!”

Calvinist contradiction #71
Non-Calvinist: “I heard of a book called The Shack that changes God’s character and nature. Its heresy to change God’s character and nature!”
A year and a half later this person became a Calvinist where he changed God’s character and nature from being eternally loving to all to eternally loving to some. He changed it where God’s tender mercies are NOT over ALL His works. He changed it where God’s justice is based on favoritism. which is unjust. He changed God’s words where “all” really means “some” when God never said that, calling God a liar in His Holy Word. He changed it where salvation is based on God’s election choices, not personal faith and trust in Christ.

Calvinist contradiction #72
Calvinist: “A sinner told me that his god is a god of love and not judgement, and sends only really bad people to hell. This is idolatry because God is holier than that.”
Me: “I agree. What if the opposite is true and God’s justice is elevated over His love, would that be idolatry?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “You just admitted Calvinism is idolatry.”

Calvinist contradiction #73
Calvinist: “You don’t understand Calvinism!”
Me: “What you are saying is I do not believe Calvinism is true, which is different than understanding what it teaches. The reason I oppose Calvinism is because I understand what it teaches!”

Calvinist contradiction #74
Calvinist: “You don’t believe Calvinism because you have pride and want to take credit for your salvation.”
Me: “First you are violating the command by Christ to not judge by appearance, you have no idea what is in my heart. Secondly faith isn’t defined as a WORK in the bible but you are suggesting it is. Furthermore why would I have pride when I believe my only hope for heaven is what Christ did for me on the cross?”

Calvinist contradiction #75
At a bible study with a Calvinist: “Everyone are just like the people in Genesis 6:5.”
“5 The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. ”
Me: “While it is true the bible teaches the human heart is desperately wicked the bible also teaches all people are not as evil as they could be at all times. People aren’t as wicked today as they will be tomorrow. All Genesis 6:5 is saying is the people, AT THAT TIME, were very wicked, NOT everyone who has ever lived or will live are that evil.”

Calvinist contradiction #76
Calvinist: “He would still be infinitely loving even if He chose not to love us at all.”
Me: “If God chose to not love some people than He isn’t infinitely loving! You can’t get better than INFINITE.”

Calvinist contradiction #77
Calvinist: “God is sovereign and men have responsibility for what they believe.”
Me: “How could men be responsible for what they believe when God decreed what they will or will not believe?”
Calvinist: “You don’t understand Calvinism. God is sovereign and men have responsibility for what they believe.”
Me: “How does your statement about what Calvinism teaches exonerates the doctrine from being contradictory on this topic? Answer: It doesn’t. All you have done is repeat the statement you made before without answering my question. Telling me what Calvinism teaches doesn’t solve the contradiction, it only makes it more apparent!”

Calvinist contradiction #78
Calvinist: “Sinners cannot do anything good which is why they go to hell.”
Me: “The bible doesn’t teach sinners go to hell because they can’t do ANYTHING good. It teaches perfection is required to enter heaven and this is why we all fall short, only God is good (perfect), and we aren’t perfect (Romans 3:23, Matthew 19:17, Matthew 5:48). Sinners can and do good things sometimes, even Jesus said they give good things to their children, but thats not the issue. The issue is we aren’t perfect. Suggesting a sinner cannot do one good thing and that is the reason they go to hell is not what the bible says.”

Calvinist contradiction #79
Calvinist: “Sinners must have the Holy Spirit in them BEFORE they believe the gospel, that is called regeneration.”
Me: “The Apostle Paul believed BEFORE he had the spirit three days later.”
Calvinist: “The Apostle Paul’s conversion is an example of total depravity because Christ had to do something before he believed, which is Christ appeared to Paul. If it weren’t for that Paul wouldn’t have believed.”
Me: “How does Christ appearing to Paul have anything to do with the Holy Spirit indwelling a sinner? Answer: Nothing. Paul still didn’t have the Holy Spirit in him so how could he have believed?”
Calvinist: “The Apostle Paul didn’t have saving faith, even the demons believe.”
Me: “The demons don’t obey Christ and Paul did which means Paul had saving faith. Oh by the way you still didn’t answer my question. (and they never do).”

Calvinist contradiction #80
Calvinist: “Sinners must have the Holy Spirit in them BEFORE they believe the gospel, that is called regeneration.”
Me: “In Acts 19:2-4 the followers of John the Baptist believed, but had John’s baptism and not the baptism of the Spirit.”
Calvinist: <ignore this and pull up another verse that supposedly proves total inability when it doesn’t since the verse I listed contradicts it, all the while showing you have no defense for this doctrine.>

Calvinist contradiction #81
Calvinist: “Sinners must have the Holy Spirit in them BEFORE they believe the gospel, that is called regeneration.”
Me: “In Acts 814-19 the Samaritans believed first, then received the Spirit.”
Calvinist: <ignore this and pull up another verse that supposedly proves total inability when it doesn’t since the verse I listed contradicts it, all the while showing you have no defense for this doctrine.>

Calvinist contradiction #82
Calvinist: “Sinners must have the Holy Spirit in them BEFORE they believe the gospel, that is called regeneration.”
Me: “In Eph 1:12-13 says the Spirit indwells AFTER belief.”
Calvinist: <ignore this and pull up another verse that supposedly proves total inability when it doesn’t since the verse I listed contradicts it>

Calvinist contradiction #83
Calvinist: “Sinners must have the Holy Spirit in them BEFORE they believe the gospel, that is called regeneration.”
Me: “Cornelious in Acts 10 who was a gentile believer but didn’t have the spirit in him until the end of the chapter.”
Calvinist: <ignore this and pull up another verse that supposedly proves total inability when it doesn’t since the verse I listed contradicts it.>

Calvinist contradiction #84
Calvinist: “The unelect go to hell because they have rejected the gospel of salvation.”
Me: “Did Christ die for the unelect?”
Calvinist: “No, He didn’t.”
Me: “If this is the case Christ isn’t offering the gospel to them, and therefore they aren’t rejecting it!”

Calvinist contradiction #85
Calvinist: “You should stop causing division among Christian brothers with your arguments. God hates that according to Proverbs 6:16-19.
Proverbs 6:16-19
16 There are six things that the Lord hates,
seven that are an abomination to him:
17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked plans,
feet that make haste to run to evil,
19 a false witness who breathes out lies,
and one who sows discord among brothers.”
Me: “First, you have already told me you don’t know who the elect are so you don’t know who is a brother in Christ and who isn’t. Secondly, did you notice there is something in these verses that God hates more than discord? God hates liars (v17, v19) more since He listed them twice. Calvinism teaches lies about God’s character and nature so you may want to point those verses back at yourself.”

Calvinist contradiction #86
Calvinist: “I preach the gospel to all because I don’t know who the elect are.”
Me: “This would mean that at some point you are lying to the unelect with a gospel not mean’t for them.”
Calvinist: “I’m not lying! I’m commanded by God to preach to all.”
Me: “So God is commanding you to lie?”

Calvinist contradiction #87
Calvinist: “You don’t like the true God because you want to take credit for your salvation!”
Me: “First, you are violating the command to not judge people by appearance since you are accusing me of having pride, which I don’t have. Secondly the bible doesn’t define faith as a work, therefore I am not taking credit for my salvation.”

Calvinist contradiction #88
Calvinist: “I PREFER Calvinism because I don’t have to take credit for my own salvation.”
Me: “First, I didn’t think truth was something you PREFERRED unless you are someone who has itching ears (2 Timothy 4:3). Secondly, are you taking credit for your own salvation?”

Calvinist contradiction #89
Calvinist: “You are being critical of doctrinally-sound teachers!”
Me: “I didn’t realize teachers who have contradictory beliefs were considered doctrinally sound!”

Calvinist contradiction #90
Calvinist: “Your opposition to Calvinism is causing disunity among Christians (Romans 16:17) and its a bad witness for the world to see.”
Me: “First, you previously told me you don’t know who the elect are, so suggesting we are all Christians is not something you would know.
Secondly, Romans 16:17 says the division is being caused by DOCTRINES that are CONTRARY to what I have learned. Calvinism is CONTRARY to what I have learned, and in many cases, what Calvinists first learned before they were Calvinists.
Thirdly, if Calvinism is true it makes no difference what kind of witness this is to the world. The elect will be elect and the unelect will be the unelect, nothing will change the fates of those whom God passes over for hell and chooses for heaven.
Furthermore, if Calvinism is true my “bad witnessing” has been ordained by God so why get upset about what God has decreed me to say and do? Who are you to question God?”

Calvinist contradiction #91
Calvinist: “I’m not lying when I preach the gospel to all. Christ commands me to preach the gospel to every creature.”
Me: “It is true Christ commands you to preach the gospel to everyone. However I’m uncertain as to how that fact prevents you from lying to the unelect with offers of salvation God has no intention of giving them?”

Calvinist contradiction #92
Calvinist: “Who are you to question God?”
Me: “I’m not questioning God I’m questioning your interpretations. Do you think your interpretations of scripture are infallible?”
Calvinist: “I never said I was infallible.”
Me: “You aren’t willing to be corrected when verses you interpret say one thing and other scriptures contradict that interpretation. So I assume you must think you are infallible and YOUR word stands forever instead of the Lords.”

Calvinist contradiction #93
Calvinist: “God can do anything at anytime.”
Me: “Can God cause sin? Can God contradict Himself? Can God violate His own justice?”
Calvinist: “No.”
Me: “Are you suggesting Gods actions are limited by His nature and character?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “Then I guess God can’t do anything at anytime.”

Calvinist contradiction #94
Calvinist: “When I preach the gospel to a crowd I preach like an Arminian.”
Me: “You mean you use verses in such a way as to imply salvation is for all when in fact you don’t believe that, which means you are being a false witness for Christ?”

Calvinist contradiction #95
Calvinist: “Calvinists and non-Calvinists shouldn’t divide over this doctrine since we all believe the same gospel.”
Me: “Is the gospel about who God is?”
Calvinist: “What do you mean?”
Me: “The gospel describes the attributes of God doesn’t it? His love, His justice, His mercy?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “Ok, so your god loves only some eternally and my God loves all eternally. Your god blames sinners for not believing a gospel that isn’t mean’t for them since he didn’t die for those sinners and my God blames sinners for not believing a gospel that is for them since He died for them. Therefore since the God I believe in behaves differently than yours with different motivations its obvious we have different gods and we do not believe the same gospels.”

Calvinist contradiction #96
Calvinist: “You’re an Arminian!”
Me: “No, actually I’m not.”
Later in the conversation Calvinist: “You’re an Arminian!”
Me: “I already told you I’m not an Arminian.”
Later in the conversation Calvinist: “You’re an Arminian!”
Me: “Apparently you think anyone who isn’t a Calvinist is automatically an Arminian. You have been trained to think this way by reformed writers and preachers, so much so that you won’t listen to what I am telling you.”

Calvinist contradiction #97
A Calvinist on ***********: “Adrian Rogers preaches an Arminian false gospel of free-will and therefore he preaches a false Christ and false god.”
From this point on his witnessing strategy to “convert me” was to assume what I believe and why I believe it without asking. He quoted verses and interpreted them according to a system of theology called Calvinism. If I don’t believe his interpretation quote more verses, after all God’s word “won’t return void.” If I give verses which contradict his verses ignore them and quote more because somehow this makes contradictions go away. When he gets backed into a theological corner he told me I’m prideful (when I’m not), that I don’t understand Calvinism (when I do), that I’m an Arminian (when I’m not), and I must hate the sovereign God of the bible (when I don’t). Then finally determine I am apostate because God hasn’t caused me to believe him, pat himself on the back for persevering in the faith, and move on.
His “witnessing” technique to convert me was not with the gospel, as God requires, but by showing me Calvinist doctrines! As if my belief in Calvinist doctrines will convert me instead of the gospel!

Calvinist contradiction #98
Calvinist: “A person will never choose Christ and salvation, because he is at enmity to Him.”
Me: “People are separated from God because they have sinned (Isaiah 59:2 Romans 3:23) which means they are at enmity with Him, which has nothing to do with a person being able to make a choice to believe in Christ. Repentance is a change of mind where you don’t want to be God’s enemy any longer!”

Calvinist contradiction #99
Calvinist: “I see no choice made in Saul/Paul’s conversion. Jesus called, he responded: yes Lord!
Me: “A response… is a choice! Furthermore Saul did not have the Holy Spirit in him when he said: yes Lord… since he didn’t receive the Holy Spirit until three days later. How could Saul believe and obey Christ without the Holy Spirit in him? Answer: Sinners without the Holy Spirit CAN believe the truth if God presents it to them. This doesn’t mean sinners always will but it does mean they can.

Calvinist contradiction #100
Calvinist: “You have not listed any Scripture that states man has authority over God’s electing grace. Salvation is not by the will of man see John 1:12-13.”
Me: “First, I wouldn’t say man has AUTHORITY over God, thats a false statement. God has ordained that any who believes in Him will be saved and any who do not will be damned. Anyone who follows one path or another is following God’s plan so to say man has AUTHORITY over God based on their belief or unbelief is an irrational statement that comes from man-made traditions.
Secondly, its ironic you listed John 1:12-13 since it contradicts your ideas. John 1:12-13 says as many as RECEIVED Him…RECEPTION is the key…an act of the sinner’s will…without that there is no conversion! The part in the verse you are focusing on that says “nor the will of man” CANNOT include “believing the gospel” since sinners are called from Genesis to Revelation to believe in the gospel and the savior.
The meaning behind “nor the will of man” is no different than what Jesus said here:
John 10:1, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.”
Did the people at the tower of Babel try to enter heaven by building a tower to heaven? Yes. Did Cain try to gain favor with God by inventing his own sacrifice? Yes. Mankind cannot enter God’s heaven by any means they want to. Sinners cannot invent their own ideas on how to enter because its not our heaven, its God’s and HE makes the rules on how to enter it. You cannot enter by bypassing the gate, and this is what that phrase “nor the will of man” means.
For further clarification lets say I decide to invent my own way to Heaven by throwing a stuffed teddy bear on the floor and dance around it. Will that get me to heaven? No. Why? Because its not the will of God that I do that, its MY WILL…the WILL OF MAN. Its not God’s will that sinners invent their own way to heaven!
The phrase “nor the will of man” cannot mean BELIEVING THE GOSPEL because if it did it nullifies the hundred or so scriptures that say to do just that, which is GOD’S WILL!”

Calvinist contradiction #101
Calvinist: “God preserves you until the end and if He didn’t you would fall back into unbelief and rebellion. God does it all.”
Me: “Do you still sin today?”
Calvinist: “Yes.”
Me: “Then I guess God isn’t preserving you very well.”

Calvinist contradiction #102
Me: “Would you read the Message Bible?”
Calvinist: “No, thats a terrible bible to read! Its a paraphrase and not God’s words.”
Me: “Ok, what do you believe about election?”
Calvinist: “If you want to understand election try reading Potter’s Freedom by James White.”
Me: “Why would I read books that tell me what the bible says which is the same as a paraphrase and not God’s words directly from the Scriptures? You might as well read the Message Bible!”

Calvinist contradiction #103
Calvinist: “The theology you defend is opposed to the teachings of Ignatius, Tertullian, Augustine, Wycliffe, Hus, Owen, Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, Melanchthon, Bunyan, Whitefield, Edwards, Spurgeon, Jones, Boice, Sproul, MacArthur, Piper, and countless others including Jesus and the Apostle Paul.”
Me: “So much for the concept of bible alone. I didn’t know people outside the scriptures were infallible in everything they say. By the way Calvinists traditionally oppose Catholicism but you seem to be okay with believing Augustine’s doctrines who is considered the father of the modern Catholic church.”

Calvinist contradiction #104
Calvinist: “Dead sinners cannot bring themselves back to spiritual life and they cannot believe the gospel. Just like Lazarus cannot bring himself from the dead neither can a sinner.”
Me: “Jesus explained He did the miracle of raising Lazarus from the dead to prove He was the Messiah to the people witnessing it.
John 11:42
And I know that You always hear Me, but because of the people who are standing by I said this, that they may believe that You sent Me.
Where does it say in John 11 this miracle is to demonstrate people are unable to believe the gospel? You are adding meanings to events God never intended. The only place it says this is in the minds of reformed writers and preachers.”

Calvinist contradiction #105
Calvinist: “In Matthew 23:37 God isn’t frustrated with sinners who don’t come to Him since God does what He wants with whoever He wants. He is upset at their sinful rebellion, thats all.”
Me: “A plain reading of the verse doesn’t fit what you just said. Jesus is clearly frustrated with the Jews who refuse to come to Him because he wants them to come to Him:
Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! HOW OFTEN I WANTED to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!”

Calvinist contradiction #106
Calvinist: “When a sinner wants to be saved from the power of sin God will cause him to turn to the savior for salvation.”
Me: “A sinner is UNABLE to have the desire to turn from sin or want to be saved BEFORE God causes him to turn to the savior, so you contradicted Calvinism. Furthermore I didn’t realize God’s sovereignty was moved by the desires of a sinner since Calvinist election relies on nothing a sinner does or thinks.”

Calvinist contradiction #107
Calvinist: “Your arguments are based on emotions and not scripture.”
Later I show scriptures to validate what I am saying which produces from the Calvinist aggression, insults, and judging my heart, which are very strong emotions not based on scripture.

Calvinist contradiction #108
Calvinist: “Calvinism is a controversial subject, so we don’t talk about it.”
Later I find out these same people teach Calvinism in bible studies or online. Many don’t call it “Calvinism” because that word is “controversial” but instead call it the “doctrines of grace” which makes it sound better. Who would be against grace?
This is called deception, sneaking the doctrine in unawares, and the people who listen have no idea they are being indoctrinated into a man-made tradition of belief created by the Gnostics, adopted by Augustine and further developed by John Calvin nor are they presented with alternative interpretations.
If Calvinists have to sneak the doctrine in under a different name to avoid controversy that shows how dishonest they are and are no better than a false teacher who HAS TO DECEIVE others in order for them to believe what they say.
Furthermore it shows the nature of the god they serve by using deceit. After all, the god of Calvinism lies to the unelect using the gospel message with offers of salvation he has no intention of giving them.
Jesus spoke the plain truth to everyone and didn’t keep anything hidden or sneak something in by another name to make it more palatable.
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi tried to bring Transcendental Meditation to the West in the 1960’s and it received little acceptance among Americans because it was labeled as a religious practice which made it “controversial.” Later Maharishi relabeled it as a “scientific” practice and then it was accepted. Evolutionists do the same thing by changing the labels “evolutionary theory” to “evolutionary science.” Relabeling a controversial doctrine called Calvinism into the “doctrines of grace” or suggesting this comes directly from the bible when its really a man-made philosophical system or suggesting its a non-essential issue we can disagree on makes it easier for acceptance.
I always thought it strange Calvinists would go through the trouble of doing this since they claim God will do what he wants to do anytime he wants to do it. Its as if God needs their help in sneaking the doctrine into the body of Christ.
The bottom line is if you have to deceive people into believing something you are manipulating them instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to teach them.

Calvinist contradiction #109
Calvinist: “There is no where in the bible that teaches people have free will.”
Me: “There are many that teach people must make a choice between following God or not, which suggest they have the free-will to do so. Here are a few:”
John 7:17
17 If anyone wants to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.
Deuteronomy 30:19
19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
1 Kings 18:21
1 And Elijah came to all the people, and said, “How long will you falter between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him.” But the people answered him not a word.”
The ironic thing is Calvinists say sinners are unable to believe the truth with their free will but get mad at them for not believing the truth, acting as if they have the free-will to believe it!

Calvinist contradiction #110
Calvinist: “We don’t have free will to do whatever we want. If you wanted to fly like a bird by flapping your arms you can’t. If you were driving to a church and the police were blocking your way you couldn’t go. Or free-will is limited. Likewise an unbeliever doesn’t have the free-will to believe.”
Me: “The nature of free-will has nothing to do with the ability to do something but the desire to do something. I may desire to drive to a church and won’t make it because the police are blocking me. But that doesn’t matter. I DESIRE to go to church. Likewise a sinner who cannot be perfect enough to enter heaven through their good works may have the DESIRE to enter, and this desire is demonstrated through belief in the gospel. This belief is an act of their will.”
Calvinist: “The only desire sinners have is to sin! No one would choose Christ unless God intervenes.”
Me: “Its true God must bring the message of Himself to a world that cannot see Him, which is God intervening. However it is not true that once God does a sinner is UNABLE to believe what God told them. God has already given the sinner creation, conscience, the law, and prophecy to assist them. GOD MADE THE FIRST MOVE ALREADY. There are biblical examples of people who believe the truth without the Holy Spirit in them.” (listed in other contradictions on this page)

Calvinist contradiction #111
Calvinist: “You say our god is unloving because he creates people for hell, but you have the same problem. You believe God created people whom He knew would go to hell, so its unloving of God to create these people.”
Me: “You are trying to paint a picture that my God is just as unloving as yours is, that He is directly responsible for people who end up in hell. Lets take a quick look.
In the Calvinist view God NEVER offers salvation to the unsaved because he hated them before they did anything good or bad, like Esau. Christ never died for them. There is NO eternal love for them by God. If someone goes to hell its because God stacked the deck against them.
In the non-Calvinist view God OFFERS salvation to the unsaved because He loved EVERYONE before they did anything good or bad. Christ died for them ALL. There is eternal love for them by God. If someone goes to hell its because they rejected the LOVE of God through the gospel, when they could have accepted it.
The Calvinist God NEVER loved them eternally, and the non-Calvinist God DOES. We believe in completely different gods with different personalities. They are not the same at all!
Is my God DIRECTLY responsible for their eternal destiny in the SAME WAY yours is? Clearly not, since He gives everyone the full opportunity to be with Him in heaven, demonstrating His eternal love for them, when your god doesn’t do a thing for them in this regard. I find it interesting you would try to make our beliefs the same. Deep down you KNOW the god of Calvinism is not very nice so you try to bring mine down to your level. I’m certain the true God is angry at this comparison.

Calvinist contradiction #112
Calvinist: “God hates the unelect.”
Later in the conversation Calvinst: “God does love sinners. He gives them common grace. He gives them food, rain, clothing, shelter, and family while on Earth.”
Me: “Its a very strange thing for you to say God hates the unelect, he never died for them on the cross, he lets them be miserable and captive in their sins and then say God ‘loves’ them because he gives them the resources to live for a time on the earth to carry out this miserable existence in sin God is keeping them in. You are trying to make your god seem better than he really is.
Jesus said ‘What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul?’ In other words, these temporary benefits don’t really benefit!”

Calvinist contradiction #113
Calvinist on youtube commenting on someone he witnessed to: “I could see she had no idea she was a sinner, lived by her own set of rules and thought scripture was a joke. She had a Sunday school idea of God, has questions in her mind but had never searched the scriptures for answers, she didn’t like that He didn’t accept sodomites because she’d been brainwashed to accept them, she thought muslims were nice people and didn’t know what they believed. I perfectly understand why God has preordained her outcome.”
Did you notice he contradicted himself? He is suggesting God preordained her unbelief because of…her unbelief!

Calvinist contradiction #114
Calvinist: “God can give someone a false faith that looks like real faith to damn them further.”
Me: “How do you know if YOU are saved?”
Calvinist: “The only way to know if I have saving faith is if I’m persevering in the faith.”
Me: “Your faith doesn’t save, as the bible says it does, but the evidence of obedience does? Its too bad you teach a false faith gives the same evidence which means you really can never know!”

Calvinist contradiction #115
From a video of a Calvinist in reference to believing the gospel: “I wasn’t willing but I was always willing for God to make me willing.”
The DESIRE for God to be willing, is itself, faith in God. Faith is trust. You had faith and trust in God before you believed the gospel, something a total depraved sinner is incapable of doing according to Calvinism. It seems to me the idea of total depravity, as Calvinists define it, is in error.

Calvinist contradiction #116
Calvinist Victor Tavitian on Facebook: “There is no group of people that I love more in this world than Christians. They are wretched people saved from their sin by a loving God. I am part of this elite group, not due to my performance, style, intellect, or moral inclination, but because of the choice of God which depended only on His will.
Romans 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.”
Me: He said he is part of this “elite” group which is a word that means superiority over others, then claims there is nothing special about him that God chose him.

Calvinist contradiction #117
Calvinist on Facebook: “Calvinism is from the bible. Why haven’t you put the sources for the contradictions on your page? Are you trying to hide something?
Me: “No, I’m not trying to hide anything. Some are direct quotes others are paraphrases. I know what I said and what was said to me.”
Calvinist on Facebook: “You are doing this wrong, you should put the source of all quotes if you are honest.”
Me: Instead of addressing any doctrinal issues he spent his time berating me for not listing the sources for everything. Later I showed him some of the sources for the direct quotes on the list which contradict Calvinism. He then drastically changes the subject and says…
Calvinist on Facebook: “You should read the Westminster Confession.”
Me: Instead of addressing certain issues I brought up he decided to avoid them and use the strategy of attacking me personally. After that problem was solved he pointed me to the Westminster Confession, which espouses Calvinist doctrines. This doesn’t address the issues, it only makes them more apparent.

Calvinist contradiction #118
Facebook Post from Calvinist: “Alabama cop being mocked on social media after being pistol whipped with his own gun.
This world is getting sicker by the second… Jesus is the answer!! Everyone fighting for so many different rights, but it’s all about Christ giving you a new heart.
But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
Matthew 6:33 NIV”
My Thoughts: “Jesus is the answer, I agree with this Calvinist on that. But its strange that he says its all about Jesus giving you a new heart. What kind of answer is that when sinners, according to Calvinism, are unable to prompt Jesus to give them a new heart? Calvinists do believe sinners are accountable for their unbelief, but why? The verse he used to seek first his Kingdom and his righteousness when he believes unbelievers are unable to seek!”

Calvinist contradiction #119
A Calvinist on youtube named classicjukebox: “I think it is ironic that Dave Hunt is going to teach the church about false doctrines, when he himself was deceived by the false gospel of Arminianism and opposed the true doctrines of Christianity: Particular Atonement, Effectual calling, Predestination unto salvation, God’s unconditional choice in salvation, effectual saving grace, regeneration before believing, and total depravity. These are the last days people. Open your Bible, ask God for mercy to understand and see the GOSPEL” (emphasis mine)…
Later in the same conversation he said: “I agree that Calvinism is NOT (emphasis mine) the gospel. However, the gospel is the gospel. And there are core truths taught in the Bible about the truths of salvation.”
First he says Calvinism is the gospel and than says it isn’t! He doesn’t want to “say” Calvinism is the gospel but he really “thinks” it is.
He spends his time trying to convince me these doctrines are true and never gives me the gospel that Paul defined in 1 Corinthians 15. NEVER ONCE. So he is trying to “save me” but his methods are not what the Apostles did or what Jesus taught.
Eventually the Calvinist ended with: “We are finished. For now at least, God has ordained you to the condemnation you are in. ”
Me: “Great! Thanks for the good news of the gospel. You have given me no hope whatsoever.”
THIS is how the Apostles witnessed to people?!?

Calvinist contradiction #120
Calvinist: People are totally depraved. The only way a person can call Jesus “Lord” is if that person has the Holy Spirit in them first (1 Corinthians 12:13).
1 Corinthians 12:13
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Me: 1 Corinthians 12:13 can’t be saying the only reason you are calling Jesus “Lord” is because you have the Holy Spirit in you because there are verses that contradict this idea. In Matthew 7 unbelievers call Jesus “Lord, Lord” and Jesus says I never knew them.
Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
In Philippians 2 we see EVERYONE calling Jesus “Lord” even those in hell (under the Earth).
Philippians 2:10-11
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
The Apostle Paul calls Jesus “Lord” but doesn’t have the Holy Spirit in him until later.
Acts 9:5
And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”
Acts 9:6
6 So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”
Acts 9:17
17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
The 10 virgins, who didn’t have the Holy Spirit, called Jesus “Lord, Lord”
Matthew 25:11
11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’
1 Corinthians 12:13 is teaching the Holy Spirit gives humanity the knowledge that Jesus is Lord, and thats all this verse is teaching. Whether someone believes that is another matter.

https://blog.savetheperishing.com/1...VkUX9EuUXv3mC4tK_ixoIIqk55hHXxQ3zEnOCK4RoMtfU