Brexit.

bigmoose

Well-Known Member
athenasius the Bible passage that sealed it for me was “Tarshish was your merchant because of your many luxury goods. They gave you silver, iron, and tin for your goods” (Ezekiel 27:12) Back then tin did not come from Spain, it came from Cornwall in Britain. Therefore since reading and researching the Ezk 27:12 passage I have identified Tarshish with Britain exclusively.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
athenasius the Bible passage that sealed it for me was “Tarshish was your merchant because of your many luxury goods. They gave you silver, iron, and tin for your goods” (Ezekiel 27:12) Back then tin did not come from Spain, it came from Cornwall in Britain. Therefore since reading and researching the Ezk 27:12 passage I have identified Tarshish with Britain exclusively.
Very good point.
 

Berni

Well-Known Member
athenasius the Bible passage that sealed it for me was “Tarshish was your merchant because of your many luxury goods. They gave you silver, iron, and tin for your goods” (Ezekiel 27:12) Back then tin did not come from Spain, it came from Cornwall in Britain. Therefore since reading and researching the Ezk 27:12 passage I have identified Tarshish with Britain exclusively.
Same here bigmoose. That is the way I interpreted the Ezekiel 27:12 passage after reading and researching many years ago.

I have always identified Tarshish as Great Britain exclusively and the young lions as the USA and possibly some of the commonwealth countries. ( Ezekiel 38:13 )
 
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daygo

Well-Known Member
The Conservatives have won a majority in the UK's general election. What could that result mean for Brexit?
The Brexit date - when the UK leaves the EU - is currently set for 31 January 2020. Prime Minister Boris Johnson agreed a deal with the EU, but it still needs to go through Parliament.
The default position - if no deal is passed - is that the UK would leave without one.

With a large Conservative majority in the House of Commons, it should be relatively straightforward to pass Mr Johnson's deal.
It's thought likely that the government will re-introduce the Withdrawal Agreement Bill - the piece of law that lays the framework for Brexit happening - next week.
The aim would be to get the bill completed in time for Brexit to happen on 31 January.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
What happens after Brexit?
If the UK leaves the EU on 31 January, that is just step one in a very complicated process.

The first priority will be to negotiate a trade deal with the EU. The UK wants as much access as possible for its goods and services to the EU.
But the Conservatives have made clear that the UK must leave the customs union and single market and end the overall jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.
Time is short. The EU could take weeks to agree a formal negotiating mandate - all the remaining 27 member states and the European parliament have to be in agreement. That means formal talks might only begin in March.
These negotiations need to produce a final agreement by the end of June. That is the point at which the UK has to decide whether or not to extend the transition period (by one or two years). But Mr Johnson has ruled out any form of extension.
If no trade deal has been agreed by the end of June, then the UK faces the prospect of leaving without one at the end of December 2020.
If an agreement has been reached, it also has to be ratified before coming into force and that is a process which could take several months.
No trade deal of this size and complexity has ever been agreed between the EU and an external country anywhere near as quickly as the timeframe planned here.
Mr Johnson has argued that as the UK is completely aligned to EU rules, the negotiation should be straightforward. But critics have pointed out that the UK wishes to have the freedom to diverge from EU rules so it can do deals with other countries - and that will make negotiations more difficult.
It's not just a trade deal that needs to be sorted out. The UK must agree how it is going to co-operate with the EU on security and law enforcement. The UK is set to leave the European Arrest Warrant scheme and will have to agree a replacement. It must also agree deals in a number of other areas where co-operation is needed.
 

TheRedeemed

Well-Known Member
The Conservatives have won a majority in the UK's general election. What could that result mean for Brexit?
The Brexit date - when the UK leaves the EU - is currently set for 31 January 2020. Prime Minister Boris Johnson agreed a deal with the EU, but it still needs to go through Parliament.
The default position - if no deal is passed - is that the UK would leave without one.

With a large Conservative majority in the House of Commons, it should be relatively straightforward to pass Mr Johnson's deal.
It's thought likely that the government will re-introduce the Withdrawal Agreement Bill - the piece of law that lays the framework for Brexit happening - next week.
The aim would be to get the bill completed in time for Brexit to happen on 31 January.
Yep Boris can do what he likes now so far as Brexit is concerned. Nothing and no one can hi-jack the commons anymore, unless there's an astonishing rebellion on the govt benches.

We will still hear howls of derision as the bill is presented and voted on, but that, thankfully after the swamp drain last week, is all they're reduced to now and for the next 5 years.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
Scotland "cannot be imprisoned in the union against its will" by the UK government, Nicola Sturgeon has said.
The Scottish first minister says the SNP's success in the general election gives her a mandate to hold a new referendum on independence.
However, UK ministers are opposed to such a move with Michael Gove saying the vote in 2014 should be "respected".
Ms Sturgeon told the BBC that if the UK was to continue as a union, "it can only be by consent".
She told The Andrew Marr Show that the UK government would be "completely wrong" to think saying no to a referendum would be the end of the matter, adding: "It's a fundamental point of democracy - you can't hold Scotland in the union against its will."
However Mr Gove told the Sophy Ridge programme on Sky that "we were told in 2014 that that would be a choice for a generation - we are not going to have an independence referendum in Scotland".


The SNP won a landslide of Scottish seats in the snap general election, making gains from the Conservatives and Labour and unseating Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson.
However UK-wide the Conservatives won a comfortable majority, returning Boris Johnson to Downing Street and setting up a constitutional stand-off over Scotland's future.
The Scottish government wants a referendum deal with UK ministers similar to that which underpinned the 2014 vote, to ensure that the outcome is legal and legitimate - but are facing opposition from the UK government.
Ms Sturgeon said it was "fundamentally not democratic" for Mr Johnson to rule out a referendum when his party had been "defeated comprehensively" in Scotland - losing seven of its 13 seats while standing on a platform of opposition to independence.

The SNP leader said: "I said this to him on Friday night on the telephone - if he thinks saying no is the end of the matter then he's going to find himself completely and utterly wrong.
"It's a fundamental point of democracy - you can't hold Scotland in the union against its will. You can't lock us in a cupboard and turn the key and hope everything goes away.
"If the UK is to continue it can only be by consent. If Boris Johnson is confident in the case for the union he should be confident enough to make that case and allow people to decide.
"Scotland cannot be imprisoned within the United Kingdom against its will. These are just basic statements of democracy."

Ms Sturgeon added: "The risk for the Conservatives here is the more they try to block the will of the Scottish people, the more utter contempt they show for Scottish democracy, the more they will increase support for Scottish independence - which in a sense is them doing my job for me.
"The momentum and the mandate is on the side of those of us who think Scotland should be independent, but also on the side of those who want Scotland to be able to chose its own future."

This woman is evil imo, dont know what our scottish friends think.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
Mr Johnson spoke to Ms Sturgeon on the phone after being returned to government, and told her that he "remains opposed" to a second independence vote.
A Downing Street spokesman said the prime minster was "standing with the majority of people in Scotland who do not want to return to division and uncertainty".
This was echoed on Sunday morning by Mr Gove, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, who said the result of the previous referendum in 2014 should hold for "a generation".
He said: "In this general election we have just seen what happens when politicians try to overturn a referendum result, and in the same way we should respect the referendum result in 2014 in Scotland.
"Scotland is stronger in the United Kingdom. You can be proudly Scottish and proudly British together.
"The best of this country are British institutions like the NHS and the BBC, and therefore we should be proud of what we have achieved together and confident that the UK is a strong partnership that works in the interests of all."

Good for boris.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell have apologised over Labour's "catastrophic" defeat in Thursday's election, which saw them lose 59 seats.
Mr Corbyn said he was "sorry that we came up short", while Mr McDonnell told the BBC he "owns this disaster".
The leader and shadow chancellor said they would step down in the new year.
The race for their replacements has already begun, with Wigan MP Lisa Nandy saying for the first time she was "seriously thinking about" running.
Mr McDonnell said it would be up to Labour's National Executive Committee to decide the mechanics of the leadership election, but he expected it to take place in eight to 10 weeks' time.
Labour suffered its worst election result since 1935 on Thursday and saw its vote share fall by eight points.
The Conservatives won a Commons majority of 80 - the party's biggest election win for 30 years - sweeping aside Labour in its traditional heartlands.

Labour need to think about this and not act foolishly and be honest otherwise they will make the same mistakes.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
European leaders warned Friday that Britain could become a formidable rival, just hours after a big victory by Prime Minister Boris Johnson's conservatives all but sealed the UK's Brexit divorce.
But the EU chiefs, meeting in Brussels, also expressed relief that British voters had sent a clear message, bringing to an end the first phase of a crisis that has dogged Europe for more than three years.
Led by France and Germany, EU member states said they would pursue a swift trade deal with a tight deadline of end 2020, but insisted that any new arrangement must uphold European values and norms.
"There is no question of concluding a deal at any price," EU Council President Charles Michel told a news conference after the talks.
"Negotiations are over when the results are balanced and guarantee respect for the different concerns," the former Belgian premier said.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel warned that Britain would be an economic "competitor at our door" after it leaves the EU and French President Emmanuel Macron saw a threat that London would become an "unfair competitor".
This reflects concern that Britain could become a kind of "Singapore on Thames", a trading hub where multinationals can gain access to the EU's huge market without playing by its rules.
"Talks about a trade deal with Britain will be a lot of trouble. They won't be any easier than those over the withdrawal agreement," Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said.
Dutch interests lie with the "widest possible" agreement with London, including trade, fisheries and security cooperation, Rutte told the ANP news agency.
Rutte said he "had an idea what Boris Johnson wanted" but he did not want to elaborate, adding that the idea of a Singapore on Thames was "all dreams".
Brussels is also worried about the breakneck speed with which Johnson would like to strike a trade deal with Europe, as well as any British effort to undermine the unity among the remaining 27 members.
"The time frame ahead of us is very challenging," said European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, who will pilot the talks with her chief negotiator, Michel Barnier.
With Brexit now expected on January 31, on the "first of February, we go to work," she said.

In a text released after the talks, the 27 EU leaders called for "as close as possible a future relationship with the UK" while warning that it "will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations and ensure a level playing field".
Barnier will direct trade negotiations, which the leaders will follow closely "and provide further guidance as necessary, fully consistent with the EU's best interest," conclusions added.
The deadline currently stands at the end of 2020, but Johnson has until July 1 to ask for a one or two year extension to the post-Brexit transition, although he insisted throughout his campaign that he would never take this an emergency option.
If he refuses to extend the negotiation period, a no-deal Brexit will loom at the end of 2020, with Britain in danger of an abrupt cut in trade ties with Europe, endangering its economy.
With the clear win, leaders hailed the end of three and half years of Brexit chaos, including three delays.
"A lot of remainers voted for Johnson because they were fed up. They wanted clarifications," said Luxembourg Prime Minister Xavier Bettel.
And Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez added: "Politically, it is a loss ... but now we must have the best relations possible, and that is what we will do over the next 11 months.
"We want relations to be as close as possible, but we'll take care that they respect the rules of the single market," he warned.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
The battle against Brexit has not ended with Boris Johnson’s emphatic general election victory, Liberal Democrat interim co-leader Sir Ed Davey has said.
While accepting that the prime minister now has the votes in the Commons to get his withdrawal agreement through by 31 January, Sir Ed insisted that this will not mean Brexit is “done”.
Johnson’s plans could still “implode” over the course of the coming year as the inconsistencies in his election promises come under strain in the struggle to get a trade agreement with Brussels by the extraordinarily tight deadline of December 2020, he said.
And he said that the threat which Brexit poses to the future position of Scotland and Northern Ireland in the United Kingdom will give the lie to Johnson’s “One Nation” rhetoric, declaring: “We are the unionists now – the patriotic party who support our union.”
Sir Ed, who made an unsuccessful bid for the Lib Dem leadership earlier this year and took the position of co-leader alongside party president Sal Brinton after Jo Swinson lost her seat, refused to say whether he will put himself forward when the contest for her successor is launched – possibly several months into 2020.

Speaking to The Independent just two days after a disastrous election which saw the Lib Dems’ representation in the Commons slashed from 21 to just 11, he insisted his party had not been thrown into disarray by what he acknowledged was a “tough” outcome.
A detailed review of the election campaign, taking in tactics, seat targeting and messaging, will be launched by the party’s federal board in the new year, but he had detected no clamour for a fundamental rethink of principles or approach of the kind seen within the Labour Party, which he described as “falling apart”.
While Labour squabbles over the succession to Jeremy Corbyn, Lib Dems aim to be on the front foot offering opposition to the Johnson government in parliament over Brexit and the climate emergency, he said.
And he made clear that he views left-wing efforts to install a new leader in Corbyn’s mould – as well as consternation among traditional Tories over the threat which Mr Johnson’s Brexit plans pose to the union and business – as an opportunity for the kind of reshaping of British politics which the Lib Dems have long dreamt of.
“I think there is still a chance the realignment of politics will happen and it will be based around the liberal progressive centre,” said Sir Ed.

It appears that some have not learned and never will.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
A Labour MP has been criticised for an “appalling” speech in which he said his party would fight the Tories “in the streets”.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle’s speech after his victory in Brighton Kemptown on Thursday was slammed by Conservative politician Sir Andrew Bowden.
It came after Labour suffered its worst general election defeat to the Conservatives in more than 80 years.
Mr Russell-Moyle, 33, told the crowd at the Brighton Centre: “The Conservative Party have an aim to break up our country.
“They aim to destroy our NHS and we will say no.
“We will fight them in the Parliament, we will fight them in the courts, we will fight them in the workplaces and we will fight them in the streets.
“They will not destroy our country. Thank you, Kemptown.”

Sir Andrew, who was Brighton Kemptown MP between 1970 and 1997, condemned the speech “for its clear implications” and accused Mr Russel-Moyle of being an “extreme left-wing socialist, stroke Marxist, and a friend of Mr Corbyn”.
He told The Argus: “His demand is not acceptable in any democracy.
“He has no right or justification for saying Conservative MPs are very dangerous forces.
“I believe the great majority in Kemptown, regardless of how they voted, will condemn his appalling outburst.”
 

TheRedeemed

Well-Known Member
This woman is evil imo, dont know what our scottish friends think.
One has to remember that the SNP, like UKIP and the Brexit Party, only exist for one thing. So she is duty bound to be doing and saying what she is, just the same as Nigel Farage in his UKIP days and latterly in his Brexit Party involvement over exiting the EU.

Actually, indyref2 aside, which is another issue, she's one of the UK's best politicians, she would have made an excellent cabinet minister in the UK Govt.

She will probably end up getting her indyref2 vote, but is still unlikely to win it. I don't think she's at all evil, she's only doing her job the same as Nigel was in the last 20 years.

The issue is now polarised by the same thing the UK has been battling for the last 3.5 years, namely Brexit.

Her indyref2 will now probably include separation from UK and immediate re-entry to the EU and, as I have already stated in other posts, 1.1 million Scots voted to leave EU too.

So how she's quite going to reconcile those voters in her attempt to leave the UK is an almost insurmountable problem for her and her party.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
The battle for UK membership of the European Union is lost and the question will not be reopened for 20 years, Europhile former deputy prime minister Michael Heseltine has said.
Lord Heseltine, who lost the Tory whip after urging people to vote against Conservatives to stop Brexit, played down the prospect of an immediate campaign to rejoin the EU, and said the focus must now be on ensuring that Boris Johnson’s withdrawal deal works for disadvantaged areas of the UK.
After securing a landslide majority in Thursday’s election, allowing him to “get Brexit done”, Mr Johnson was coming under pressure to strike a trade deal with Brussels that allows the UK to maximise commercial links by maintaining close alignment with EU regulations.
French president Emmanuel Macron has said that an ambitious deal will require “ambitious regulatory convergence”, while Irish taoiseach Leo Varadkar said he expected Mr Johnson to accept EU standards on the environment and labour rights as the price for access to European markets. European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen indicated that an agreement to be reached within Mr Johnson’s deadline of 31 December 2020 can only cover areas like goods, fisheries and security, with the vital services sector to be dealt with later.
And the TUC warned that Mr Johnson must be ready to take his time to secure a deal which will support jobs and workplace protections in the northern and midlands seats which secured his stunning victory over Labour. The PM was carrying out post-election visits in the north on Saturday to assure voters of his determination to spread opportunity across the UK.
But Donald Trump has said that a “far bigger and more lucrative” deal is on offer from the US if the UK breaks free of EU standards, and Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage has warned that Leavers will “reapply pressure” on the PM if he moves towards a “soft” outcome.
Lord Heseltine said the priority for pro-Europeans must now be to try to shape a future relationship with Europe which minimises the harm from Brexit.
“We have lost, let’s not muck about with the language,” he told the BBC Radio 4’s Today programme. “Brexit is going to happen and we have to live with it.
“There will now be a long period of uncertainty, but we can’t escape from that, so we must do the best we can.”
Brushing off the prospect of an immediate campaign to rejoin, Lord Heseltine said: “I don’t think it’s gone, but it won’t be my generation. It will be 20 years or something before the thing is once again raised as an issue.”
The deputy general secretary of the TUC urged Boris Johnson to “put your money where your mouth is, engage with the unions, engage with working people” to get a Brexit deal that protects workers’ rights.
Paul Nowak said: “There are some contradictions in the prime minister’s position. He said before the election that he wants to protect and enhance employment rights, but if you look at that withdrawal bill, it delivers none of those protections.”
He added: “The government needs to now widen the conversation to include businesses, to include trade unions.
“And I think our message clearly to Boris Johnson would be to put people before politics, to deliver a Brexit deal that does protect jobs and employment rights and I think that means getting a right deal not just a quick deal – and I think it does mean standing by the commitments he’s made to those voters in the northeast and in the midlands who may have voted for the first time.”
Mr Nowak warned: “A deal that threatens jobs and people’s employment isn’t a deal that we can live with.”
Belgian MEP Philippe Lamberts, a member of the European parliament’s Brexit Steering Group, said that a trade deal with zero tariffs would depend on whether the Conservative Party was able to “face up to its own contradictions”.
Mr Lamberts said: “They want the deepest possible access to the European single market, yet they want to undercut significantly EU legislation, and you can’t have both.
“So either you want total regulatory freedom and you do whatever you like – and if you want to undercut EU legislation then you do it, but then you lose access. Or you want access and you have basically to remain aligned with EU legislation, that will be the decision that Boris Johnson will need to make.”
He added: “If the United Kingdom wants to retain full access, including for services, that will have the adverse consequence that it has to remain aligned to EU legislation in services as well, and I understand that some in the government would want to deviate from that quite significantly.”

“And I think our message clearly to Boris Johnson would be to put people before politics, to deliver a Brexit deal that does protect jobs and employment rights and I think that means getting a right deal not just a quick deal – and I think it does mean standing by the commitments he’s made to those voters in the northeast and in the midlands who may have voted for the first time.”
Mr Nowak warned: “A deal that threatens jobs and people’s employment isn’t a deal that we can live with.”

Judging on what Boris is doing and said it looks like he knows this, he has gone and thanked the north for voting tory and also appears humble enough because he now says we the government are not the masters we are the servants of the people, I like that.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
European Union leaders have debated Britain’s departure from the bloc amid some relief that Boris Johnson has secured a parliamentary majority that should allow him to push the long-stalled Brexit divorce deal through the UK Parliament.
With or without an agreement, Britain is scheduled on January 31 to become the first country to leave the world’s biggest trading bloc.
Al though many EU leaders are relieved that the Brexit saga is finally coming to an end, more than three years after Britons voted to leave, just as many are saddened by the departure of a heavyweight member state.

They must be quaking in their boots.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
One has to remember that the SNP, like UKIP and the Brexit Party, only exist for one thing. So she is duty bound to be doing and saying what she is, just the same as Nigel Farage in his UKIP days and latterly in his Brexit Party involvement over exiting the EU.

Actually, indyref2 aside, which is another issue, she's one of the UK's best politicians, she would have made an excellent cabinet minister in the UK Govt.

She will probably end up getting her indyref2 vote, but is still unlikely to win it. I don't think she's at all evil, she's only doing her job the same as Nigel was in the last 20 years.

The issue is now polarised by the same thing the UK has been battling for the last 3.5 years, namely Brexit.

Her indyref2 will now probably include separation from UK and immediate re-entry to the EU and, as I have already stated in other posts, 1.1 million Scots voted to leave EU too.

So how she's quite going to reconcile those voters in her attempt to leave the UK is an almost insurmountable problem for her and her party.
I may be wrong TheRedeemed but feel she is trying to force the scots to want independence to suit her own agenda.
 

TheRedeemed

Well-Known Member
I may be wrong TheRedeemed but feel she is trying to force the scots to want independence to suit her own agenda.
Yeah, she won't survive that, see Jeremy Corbyn, Jo Swinson and about 75 other now redundant MP's from last week.

The press, the leadership, the campaigns, none of these things make people's minds up. If there is no appetite for it in the electorate, and adding in the EU re-entry, there most probably isn't, so she's going to lose anyway.

Jo Swinson and the other traitors believed they had the majority opinion and, really, they all believed that the electorate got it wrong and changed their minds since 2016 referendum.

They all got the message that what they believed about the electorate wasn't true in the biggest swamp clearance the electorate has ever delivered.

Nichola Sturgeon has already acknowledged that lots of the votes for her party last week were because of the UK parties behaviour over Brexit and not an endorsement of most Scots wishing to break up the UK.

She could end up with the same slap across the face that Corbyn and Swinson got last week.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
Yeah, she won't survive that, see Jeremy Corbyn, Jo Swinson and about 75 other now redundant MP's from last week.

The press, the leadership, the campaigns, none of these things make people's minds up. If there is no appetite for it in the electorate, and adding in the EU re-entry, there most probably isn't, so she's going to lose anyway.

Jo Swinson and the other traitors believed they had the majority opinion and, really, they all believed that the electorate got it wrong and changed their minds since 2016 referendum.

They all got the message that what they believed about the electorate wasn't true in the biggest swamp clearance the electorate has ever delivered.

Nichola Sturgeon has already acknowledged that lots of the votes for her party last week were because of the UK parties behaviour over Brexit and not an endorsement of most Scots wishing to break up the UK.

She could end up with the same slap across the face that Corbyn and Swinson got last week.
Thanks TheRedeemed good assessment agree with you.
 
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