Biblical Numbers Pathway To Mankind's Actual History

Hol

Worships Him
Seeing that this old thread again, I'll ask about an odd question that I have regarding the question of the children of Israel in slavery while in Egypt (400 or 430 years?).
Other manuscripts (the Samaritan Pentateuch and the Septuagint) add the words “and Canaan” after Egypt in the above quote, so that it reads “the length of time the Israelite people lived in Egypt and Canaan was 430 years”. This makes the beginning of the 430 year period when Abraham arrived in Canaan. This is 215 years earlier than Jacob’s arrival in Egypt, and would shorten the Israelites’ period in Egypt to 215 years (215 + 215 = 430). This was the view taken by James Ussher.

However, in Acts 7:6, Stephen states that Abraham’s descendants were to be “enslaved and mistreated four hundred years”. But then in Galatians 3:16-17 Paul makes reference to a 430 year period from Abraham leaving Haran to Moses receiving “The Law”. As you can see biblical chronologists work to coordinate all the verses and use multiple sources.
Is it possible that the 'slavery' did not begin until Joseph died?Maybe the Children of Israel were honored guests the first 30-years?

Anyhow, without revisiting this entire thread, I hope that I hadn't neglected to point out an important point from Charles Clough's work. He suggests that God placed Israel in Egypt for preservation of Jews from intermarriage. Apparently the Caanites had lowered their standards to 'whatever,' but Egyptians frowned upon intermarriage with Jews (referencing the Egyptians as cattle herdsmen vs. Jews as shepherders for one reason??).
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Is it possible that the 'slavery' did not begin until Joseph died?Maybe the Children of Israel were honored guests the first 30-years?
Hol I've been following Ken Johnson's work on the Dead Sea Scrolls kept by the Essenes in Qumran. Some recent (last few years) stuff has been published (stuff gets found and then sat on for decades). If I remember correctly and I'm not sure that I do, so grain of salt or truckload please,

if I remember, the "testaments" of the patriarchs from Abraham on to Moses were kept in non canon Jewish histories and routinely scoffed at as being written as late as the 1600's, but the recent discovery and publishing of the "scary" bits of the Qumran scrolls actually backs them up as being historical documents at least as far back as in the Essene period from the Maccabees to around the time of Christ I think.

I will look all this up and post in on this, but heres the deal. The testament of Amram the father of Moses backs up your thought. After Joseph died, and as Lujack points out up thread, the protector of the Jews is gone, and the pharaoh in charge isn't inclined to like them. Antisemitic feeling arose. Which God used to bring the people together fused as one people to come out under HIS Hand using Moses as His spokesman.

OK interesting side note, my grandad who came to ranch cattle from 1920's in BC here told me there was always bad blood between cattle owners and sheep farmers. You have one or the other, where both try to graze it doesn't work because sheep graze close, too close for cattle to come behind and feed off the same ground. Your comment makes me wonder if there was a similar cow owners vs sheep owners.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Oh and by using the word testament, it's more like last will and testament. Not like the New Testament. These documents are the last words that were written by these men as they neared the end of their lives and were what they wanted their kids to remember.

Chillingly there is one by Levi -father of the priestly clan that tells his descendants not to have anything to do with the nails. It's a prophecy of Christ on the cross.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Ok from the book Ancient Testaments of the Patriarchs by Ken Johnson 2017 Introduction he refers to the jars of the Essene's library scrolls as being in existence no later than AD70 because the Essene's sealed the scrolls of their library in the jars around the time of the Roman destruction of Jerusalem. One such scroll came onto the historical scene in the 11th centurey. A Syrian Patriarch (orthodox christian version of a bishop) bought one from the Bedouins, called the Testaments of the 12 Patriarchs. Supposedly the writing of the 12 sons of Jacob. They consisted of last words to their children but contained some prophecies.

Ken states "Scholars had 2 major problems with these"... First the prophecies were very focused on the Messiah and agreed wholeheartedly with Christian doctrine. Second the story was that the original Hebrew was in the hands of a private collector and only re translated Greek was available to study. With no original Hebrew scrolls and the messianic prophecies being too Christian like, the Testaments of the 12 Patriarchs was assumed to be Christian fiction. They are still part of volume 8 of the Ante-Nicene Fathers (the 10 volume set) that was produced in the late 1800s.

ALL THAT CHANGED WITH THE DISCOVERY OF THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS!!!!!!!

Between AD 1948 to 2016 there were 12 caves discovered in Qumran containing many PRE CHRISTIAN SCROLLS. A 40 volume set of the Dead Sea Scrolls was produced entitled Discoveries in the Judean Desert. This set contains every photo, description and translation of these scrolls.

Fragments of FIVE of the 12 sons of Jacob were found in these Dead Sea Scrolls. Levi, Judah, Naphtali, Joseph and Benjamin.

In Kens book he underlines the portions that were found in the Dead Sea Scrolls to examine their accuracy and how much remains from the original Hebrew.

The Talmud of the Orthodox Jews, and the Essene community writings both say that all the patriarchs from Adam to Aaron (yes Moses's brother) 37 or more, were prophets, and all wrote to their children and posterity. Ken includes the fragments of the other patriarchs that have been found. Some are a simple partial sentence.

What is significant is that the information in the Dead Sea Scrolls backs up and is IDENTICAL to the information that was given in the full Latin versions of the Testaments of the 12 Patriarchs published in volume 8 of the Ante Nicene Fathers back in the 1800s.

Here is part of Levi's prophecy that obviously would scare the living daylights out of any Jewish historian dealing with the Dead Sea Scrolls: "You and all your seed will be blessed until the Lord visits all the heathen in the tender mercies of HIS SON even forever. Nevertheless, your sons will lay hands upon Him to crucify Him. Therefore you have been given counsel and understand to instruct your sons about Him, because he who blesses HIM will be blessed, but they that curse Him will perish...."

The last 2 testaments in the book are Amram father of Moses and Aaron brother of Moses. Aaron goes on about something then suddenly interjects this sentence: "Let not the nail touch him."

This is what Joseph says: "I saw that from Judah was born a virgin wearing a linen garment and from her went forth a Lamb without spot and on His left hand there was a lion. All the beasts rushed against Him, and the Lamb overcame them, destroyed them, and trampled them under foot. Because of Him, the angels, men and all the earth rejoiced. These things will take place in their season, in the last days. Therefore, my children, observe the commandments of the Lord and honor Judah and Levi. From them will rise unto you the Lamb of God, by grace saving all the Gentiles and Israel. For His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, which will not be shaken; but my kingdom among you will come to an end as a watchers hammock, which after the summer will not appear.

I know that after my death the Egyptians will afflict you, but God will undertake your cause, and will bring you into that which He promised to your fathers. But carry my bones up with you for when my bones are taken up, the Lord will be with you in light, and Belial will be in darkness with the Egyptians. Carry up Zilpah, your mother and lay her near Bilhah, by the hippodrome, by the side of Rachel" It goes on to describe his death.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Accoring to Bible chronology, Sargon of Akkad can not be Nimrod, but the 4th king Naram-Sin does qualify !
Not sure on the dates but there is a good bit about the life and times of Nimrod in the book of Jasher, --that is the old Jewish history textbook, not in the canon of Scripture, but referred to in Scripture "is it not written in the book of Jasher" mentioned in 2 Samuel and also back in Joshua.

Nimrod and Terah father of Abraham acc to Jasher lived at the same time. It's interesting stuff. Nimrod was a type of the Antichrist to come if Jasher is accurate. Jasher explains how Nimrod caused the world of his time to sin. And the point of Babel is basically the same as always, one world government. Under one king. Nimrod introduced a one world religion that still troubles mankind to this day, it's the mother of all the false religions and gave birth to the evil myths behind them.

Jasher is good for looking at the genealogies but some of the stories in Jasher sound very like "tall tales". It isn't scripture, and like anything from Josephus to Pliny the Elder, if it's not in the canon of the Bible it will contain errors. However it's useful to see where the descendants of Noah ended up.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Accoring to Bible chronology, Sargon of Akkad can not be Nimrod, but the 4th king Naram-Sin does qualify !
Marcel, that is simply fascinating. I looked up that Naram-Sin and there is an epic story recorded as a saga about how his city was destroyed and why. He sure does sound like a candidate and the attitude is right.

History is full of gems like that. People who insist that the Bible isn't backed by historical data are definitely blind and foolish.
 
Yes, I fully agree.
According to the book of Yasher, twice referenced in the Bible, Ni.mrod was killed at 215 after having ruled 185 years, by Esaw, aged 23, right before he spoiled his birthright in A2135 (Yash. 27:15,16). He was born of Kush in A1917 (since Adam) which corresponds to 2123 BC (My study of Biblical Jubilees shows Adam was created in 4040 BC with his fall at 70).
Therefor, we should look for a famous proud hunter who became king in Sumer in 2093 BC, had an affair with Inanna (Ishtar), had a son who according to Yasher was Mard.on, subdued many countries, built a Zigurat and didn't die shortly. Well, the Akkadian king Naram-Sin with his son Lipit-Illi gouvernor of Marad, who built for his father the Marad temple seems to fit the prophile. Note the root MRD, I am not sure about the affair with Inanna but Naram-Sin also was the first claiming to be God!
 
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athenasius

Well-Known Member
Yes, I fully agree.
According to the book of Yasher, twice referenced in the Bible, Ni.mrod was killed at 215 after having ruled 185 years, by Esaw, aged 23, right before he spoiled his birthright in A2135 (Yash. 27:15,16). He was born of Kush in A1917 (since Adam) which corresponds to 2123 BC (My study of Biblical Jubilees shows Adam was created in 4040 BC with his fall at 70).
Therefor, we should look for a famous proud hunter who became king in Sumer in 2093 BC, had an affair with Inanna (Ishtar), had a son who according to Yasher was Mard.on, subdued many countries, built a Zigurat and didn't die shortly. Well, the Akkadian king Naram-Sin with his son Lipit-Illi gouvernor of Marad, who built for his father the Marad temple seems to fit the prophile. Note the root MRD, I am not sure about the affair with Inanna but Naram-Sin also was the first claiming to be God!
You make an EXCELLENT case! I think you are right.
 
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