Baptism of the Holy Spirit

Salluz

Aspiring Man of God
I've seen this come up in conversation before here as being different from being sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Could someone explain the concept to me?

It seemed fascinating when I heard it mentioned (I want to say it was from @mattfivefour in another thread months ago). I just heard it again watching a k-house video from Ron Matsen, which prompted the post
 

InsuranceGuy

Well-Known Member
I'm going to tack on a question. Can someone be baptized in a shower, or does it have to be full submersion? I am wondering about handicapped folks who may like to be baptized, but cannot.
 

Taterfield

Active Member
I've seen this come up in conversation before here as being different from being sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Could someone explain the concept to me?

It seemed fascinating when I heard it mentioned (I want to say it was from @mattfivefour in another thread months ago). I just heard it again watching a k-house video from Ron Matsen, which prompted the post
I can certainly explain the sealing part. I'll have to look at the video to see the context of the rest of it. Some other denominations take it a little further than the verses below. The Holy Spirit's mission is defined very precisely by Jesus in John chapter 16. There is some good reading there. But I'll leave you with Paul's words below mine.

As saved believers we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. That deposit is a guarantee! It's a one time deal, and it's good until the day your faith becomes sight! You are sealed! the verses below should help on the sealing.

2Ti_1:14 By the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you.

Eph_1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
 

Taterfield

Active Member
In plain old lingo brother, you are bought and paid for by trusting Jesus and His glorious good news. He died for me and you and rose again! There is a big receipt on you soul that says paid in full! The Holy Spirit residing in you and me is the guarantee of that promise and our future inheritance.

And I forgot to add WOOHOO!
 
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antitox

Well-Known Member
The way I understand it is that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit upon salvation but Jesus told the disciples that they would be clothed with power from on high. When i met a fellow at my church who became a good friend of mine he referred to the baptism of the Holy Spirit, came to my apt, laid hands on me, and shortly afterward started to speak in tongues. Of course that is what I wanted. I did feel a kind of gentle surging power inside of me. Not everyone has experienced things the same way, but it was quite real to me.
 

Taterfield

Active Member
I'm going to tack on a question. Can someone be baptized in a shower, or does it have to be full submersion? I am wondering about handicapped folks who may like to be baptized, but cannot.
Good morning! I didn't comment on this last night, I get pretty stupid after 10pm. Not a whole lot of difference at 9AM either.
but for what it's worth here is my take on it.

Our Lord who knows every heart and physical ability of those involved, I believe, would be ok with that if was all that could be done. I'm convinced of that in my soul. It's the intent of the heart that our Lord sees. And there is wonderful personal edification for someone who tries to the best of their ability to do something that shows their heart for the Lord. Right smack in the middle of Hebrews 13:9, (which has nothing to do with baptism, however has something profound to say), says this. " it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace". May we all have grace everyday in abundance especially toward each other..

For people who are actually able, because of the beautiful picture on display if at all possible and in a safe manner, we should do it as our Lord did.
Mar_1:10 And when he came up out of the water, immediately he saw the heavens being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove.

Just as a tack on to my testimony, I was baptized before I was saved. Yeah, I'm one of those....I wish someone had thrown a bar of soap in the water so it would have done me some good. However, I got convicted about it after I ACTUALLY trusted Jesus for my salvation, and got Re dunked later.

Personally, I like going under the water completely, and breaching the surface again like Flipper the dolphin. That burial is one thing but what that resurrection pictures wooo baby!
 
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Hsmommy

Active Member
I'm going to tack on a question. Can someone be baptized in a shower, or does it have to be full submersion? I am wondering about handicapped folks who may like to be baptized, but cannot.
We have a lady in our church who is in a wheelchair. She was baptized with water being poured over her. It’s not the depth of the water but the intention of the heart.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I concur fully with the below from Jack. No second baptism is needed, all believers have the Holy Spirit in them

Question: What is your understanding of ‘Baptism in/with the Holy Spirit’. We have members in our group – which by the way is a mix of denominations incl. RC – on this subject. All agree we need to be baptized to witness to others our faith in Christ and that this is by immersion. However some maintain that you receive the Spirit after the water baptism.

Some say you may never receive Him, some say (and they are the ones I agree with) that nowadays we receive the Spirit as guide, helper and rebuker of our conscience the minute we pray the sinners prayer and accept Christ. In the apostles days it happened suddenly as at pentecost, by laying on of hands by an apostle or at/after baptism so there seems to be no clear answer. For some this has become a sticking point in accepting brothers or sisters as true believers. Can you please give us some insight?

Answer: I’ve never found any Biblical mandate for the so-called baptism of the Holy Spirit. The verses I’ve seen used to support it require a re-interpretation of the context in which they were written. Paul’s detailed teaching on the subject of spiritual gifts (1 Cor. 12-14) doesn’t mention it.
However it does mention the distribution of spiritual gifts to believers. Paul said the Holy Spirit “gives them to each one just as He determines” (1 Cor. 12:11). The opinion that this distribution stopped after the apostolic period ended cannot be supported in Scripture either, and the fact that there are people running around with legitimate spiritual gifts today is the best possible evidence for their existence.

A literal reading of Paul’s teaching will deny the need for a second baptism, deny the requirement to manifest a certain gift as evidence of a 2nd baptism, deny the belief that gifts are not for our time, and confirm the fact that every believer has been invested with at least one gift of the Holy Spirit.
As a well known and highly regarded teacher once said, “The question is not how much of the Spirit is in you, the question is how much of you is in the Spirit.” In other words, a single-minded application of Romans 12:1-8 in our lives will reveal the Holy Spirit’s role for us in the body of Christ.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/baptism-of-the-holy-spirit-2/
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
All believers have been baptized by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 6:3 (NASB)
Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

1 Corinthians 12:13 (NASB)
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

It is not a second, later experience. Paul spoke as though all believers were baptized in the Spirit. He did not urge those who didn’t yet have it to try to get it.

Baptize means to be identified with. When we put our faith in Christ, we become identified with Him. The Holy Spirit baptizes, seals, indwells us and empowers us. Our only command is to be filled with Him—to choose not be filled with Self but to allow Him to fill us.
 

SafReb

Member
Sealed by the Holy - The Indwelling

Biblically, to be “sealed” is to be verified as God’s child. Ephesians 1 says “When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit.”

"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit" -Ephesians 1:13.

First Corinthians 12:12–13 is the central passage in the Bible regarding the baptism of the Holy Spirit: “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink” (1 Corinthians 12:13). Notice that we “all” have been baptised by the Spirit—all believers have received the baptism, synonymous with salvation, and it is not a special experience for only a few.

Water Baptism

Baptism is by full emersion.

Water Baptism is specifically stated in the New Testament to represent the Christian’s spiritual union with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection (Romans 6:3-7), which is remarkably and dramatically pictured in immersion.

Whenever the act of baptism is described in the New Testament (which is rarely), the one who is baptized actually goes into the water. Thus, after Jesus was baptized, He “came up out of the water” (Mark 1:10), and when Philip baptized the Ethiopian eunuch, “they both went down into the water” (Acts 8:38).

In Old Testament times and in Jesus' time, the Holy Spirit came upon Old Testament prophets, David and others but it wasn't indwelling.

It is why, when the disciples were sad that Jesus was leaving, He repeatedly said that He must leave for the Holy Spirit to come:

Here is John 16:7–11. “Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you.” Now we should ask, “Well, why not?” And let’s watch what He says. “But if I go, I will send Him to you.” Now, here is what He’s going to do: “And when He comes, He will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment.” Then He unpacks what he means by those three things: “Concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see Me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.”

The Holy Spirit’s role is to reveal the glory of Christ in the gospel, which cannot be done until Jesus is dead, buried, risen and sitting at the right hand of the Father as our Advocate.

To have the "indwelling of the Holy Spirit" - you must be saved as a child or an adult and then be water baptised, full emersion.

Baptism or Filled with the Holy Spirit

"So that promise of John the Baptist and that promise of Jesus was fulfilled. And in Acts 2:1-4 we read:

"And when the Day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

I have no doubt that this experience in Acts chapter 2 is the fulfillment of the promise of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Here it is declared that they were all filled with the Holy Ghost. And the word "filled" with the Holy Ghost seems to be used interchangeably with the term "baptism" of the Holy Ghost.

And so we read that Peter and John prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit. "And they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit" (Acts 8:17).

Now there must have been some visible or audible evidence that they had received the Holy Spirit; why else would Simon the sorcerer ask to purchase the power that he saw manifested? Because he wanted to go around and lay hands on people that they might receive the Holy Spirit also. He desired that power-offered to buy it. There must have been some kind of audible or visible evidence, though it is not recorded, by which they knew that they were receiving a special gift from God. I would assume that it was their speaking in unknown tongues, but that is only an assumption. The Bible does not tell us.

In Acts 19, when Paul was there in Ephesus, again he laid his hands on them and they spoke in tongues, and they prophesied. So that in all of the illustrations that we have of the infilling of the Holy Spirit in the Book of Acts, there are no two identical experiences. There was not a repeated experience recorded. In every scriptural passage that was identified, the closest thing was perhaps the experience of the house of Cornelius with the disciples. But there was no mighty rushing wind and no cloven tongues of fire. They were just speaking in tongues, which says to me, that God is not bound by a particular method or by a particular way.

God can do things as He wants to do them and we are wrong in trying to pattern our experience after somebody else. We are wrong to look for the same kind of an experience that someone else has had. And I think that there is a real danger of this in the church. God deals with us as individuals according to our own nature and according to our own temperaments. You cannot formulize God and say, "Well now, do this and lay your hand there, and touch this spot. I mean, there is no formula. God is sovereign."

https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/smith_chuck/HolySpirit/hs_06.cfm

And being "baptised / filled with the Holy Spirit" is not a one off event or experience. It is a continuing filling of His Spirit.

I can recall exacly when and where I was when I received the baptism or filled with the Holy Spirit - it was very different in that the event was very much like what is described in Acts 2. I spoke in tongues, and I still do only as the Spirit leads. The event is still very vivid and wonderful; the same way I remember when I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Saviour.

Unfortunately, denominations like Word of Faith, Pentecostalism and Charismatics have brought confusions to many churches. It has also created fear to such an extent that it has become controversial to even discuss it, but it is biblical. At the same time, I don't make an issue of it and I don't judge or thing less of others who feel differently.
 
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mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
I don't know what YOU do with it, that's between you and God. But it means that those who heard Christ and therefore believed in Him showed their repentance and preparation for the Messiah by heeding and submitting to John's baptism of repentance. And the Pharisees and scribes showed by their refusal to accept John's baptism that they refused to accept God's judgment on themselves. They thought they were too good because they followed all the external requirement of the law, to the nth degree.
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
I'm going to tack on a question. Can someone be baptized in a shower, or does it have to be full submersion? I am wondering about handicapped folks who may like to be baptized, but cannot.

We know a lot about the early church baptism practices from Christian writers in the early centuries. The preferred method of baptism was full immersion of those old enough to understand what they were doing (the early church did NOT practice infant baptism). Most baptisms were performed on the day the churches celebrated the Resurrection, after a suitable period of instruction during Lent. Moral examinations were also conducted with the baptism candidate, in order to make certain that the candidate was truly repentant, as baptism was not to be approached frivolously. On the Thursday of Holy Week (Maundy Thursday), the candidate would begin fasting and praying--sometimes carrying the fast from then through the baptism. During the early morning hours, on Sunday, the candidate would pray that the Holy Spirit would descend on him/her during the baptism. They were anointed on the forehead with oil "for healing of the sickness of sin". Then they removed their outer clothing and some of the older women in the church would baptize the women and older girls. The men of the church would baptize the men and older boys. They would be asked three questions about their faith in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, to which the candidate would respond, "I believe." (The candidates were instructed during their instruction period that it was a very serious sin to say that they believed when they did not.) Then, they were immersed three times in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. After they dried off and put their clothing back on, they were again anointed with oil as an act of thanksgiving. From the New Testament, it appears that it was somewhat normative for the Elders to lay their hands on the men who were baptized and pray for them as well as prophesy over them to receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The men of a household would then do the same with their wives, sons and daughters. The only exceptions to the general rule of full immersion was if there was not sufficient water anywhere around to do a full immersion or if the person being baptized was too feeble (through illness or age) to be able to withstand immersion. The Didache permitted three small pours of water in that instance. Later, one of the early Greek Fathers defended sprinkling as an alternate method. Infant baptism did not begin until the fifth century. Apparently the baptisms were followed by communion and a lunch, known as a "love feast".
 
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Jan51

Well-Known Member
We know a lot about the early church baptism practices from Christian writers in the early centuries. The preferred method of baptism was full immersion of those old enough to understand what they were doing (the early church did NOT practice infant baptism). Most baptisms were performed on the day the churches celebrated the Resurrection after a suitable period of instruction during Lent. Moral examinations were also conducted with the baptism candidate, in order to make certain that the candidate was truly repentant, as baptism was not to be approached frivolously. On the Thursday of Holy Week (Maundy Thursday), the candidate would begin fasting and praying--sometimes carrying the fast from then through the baptism. During the early morning hours, on Sunday, the candidate would pray that the Holy Spirit would descend on him/her during the baptism. They were anointed on the forehead with oil "for healing of the sickness of sin". Then they removed their outer clothing and some of the older women in the church would baptize the women and older girls. The men of the church would baptize the men and older boys. They would be asked three questions about their faith in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, to which the candidate would respond, "I believe." (The candidates were instructed during their instruction period that it was a very serious sin to say that they believed when they did not.) Then, they were immersed three times in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. After they dried off and put their clothing back on, they were again anointed with oil as an act of thanksgiving. From the New Testament, it appears that it was somewhat normative for the Elders to lay their hands on the men who were baptized and pray for them as well as prophesy over them to receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The men of a household would then do the same with their wives, sons and daughters. The only exceptions to the general rule of full immersion was if there was not sufficient water anywhere around to do a full immersion or if the person being baptized was to feeble (through illness or age) to be able to withstand immersion. The Didache permitted three small pours of water in that instance. Later, one of the early Greek Fathers defended sprinkling as an alternate method. Infant baptism did not begin until the fifth century. Apparently the baptisms were followed by a lunch, known as a "love feast".
Do you have a source for that information that you could share?
 

Saguaro

Have an Exit Strategy_ I Thessalonians iv 17
When does the Holy Ghost come?

Light from the Lord Jesus found in
John xiv 17 (12-18)

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.


Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.


Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Just a few that determine HIS coming taken from the New Testament
 

Love His Appearing

Well-Known Member
Good morning! I didn't comment on this last night, I get pretty stupid after 10pm. Not a whole lot of difference at 9AM either.
but for what it's worth here is my take on it.

Our Lord who knows every heart and physical ability of those involved, I believe, would be ok with that if was all that could be done. I'm convinced of that in my soul. It's the intent of the heart that our Lord sees. And there is wonderful personal edification for someone who tries to the best of their ability to do something that shows their heart for the Lord. Right smack in the middle of Hebrews 13:9, (which has nothing to do with baptism, however has something profound to say), says this. " it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace". May we all have grace everyday in abundance especially toward each other..

For people who are actually able, because of the beautiful picture on display if at all possible and in a safe manner, we should do it as our Lord did.
Mar_1:10 And when he came up out of the water, immediately he saw the heavens being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove.

Just as a tack on to my testimony, I was baptized before I was saved. Yeah, I'm one of those....I wish someone had thrown a bar of soap in the water so it would have done me some good. However, I got convicted about it after I ACTUALLY trusted Jesus for my salvation, and got Re dunked later.

Personally, I like going under the water completely, and breaching the surface again like Flipper the dolphin. That burial is one thing but what that resurrection pictures wooo baby!
We waited to have our kids baptized until our youngest was old enough to start asking about it and to understand what he was doing. He was about 10 when he asked to be baptized so we had all four of them baptized in our backyard pond. Our pastor came out to the house and we hosted a celebration with close friends and family to honor the occasion. It was super special.

Fast foward 5 years and, unbeknownst to me, my son was "re-dunked" (as you call it :smile2) in a swimming pool at the "christian therapeutic boarding school" he was attending by his substance abuse counsellor and a few close friends as witness. He wanted to make his faith his own. He said the "sinner's prayer"and asked Jesus into his heart when he was really little....maybe 4 or 5. Baptized ON HIS REQUEST at age 10 and then RE-Baptised once he really and truly made it his own personal decision to follow Jesus.
 

Love His Appearing

Well-Known Member
I grew up in a non-denominational church that I would most associate with Pentecostal if I had to pick one. They taught that being filled with the spirit was separate from salvation (NOT a salvation issue and very different from being sealed by the spirit upon salvation) but ALWAYS included speaking in tongues. In fact, they teach that the only evidence of being filled with the spirit is speaking in tongues. Oh, how I have longed and prayed for that experience. I still do. I know these gifts are still alive and well in the church. I know so many Godly men and women who pray in tongues and have even been prayed for with the laying on of hands and speaking of tongues all around me. Except for getting the message loud and clear that "ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence". (Acts 1:5) I have yet to experience it. From being on RF for many years, I know this is not a popular belief here. But if you think of it, throw a prayer up for me to be filled with the evidence of speaking in tongues...cuz who wouldn't want that extra comfort, peace, counsel, teaching and power to witness? I pray for it daily.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
I grew up in a non-denominational church that I would most associate with Pentecostal if I had to pick one. They taught that being filled with the spirit was separate from salvation (NOT a salvation issue and very different from being sealed by the spirit upon salvation) but ALWAYS included speaking in tongues. In fact, they teach that the only evidence of being filled with the spirit is speaking in tongues. Oh, how I have longed and prayed for that experience. I still do. I know these gifts are still alive and well in the church. I know so many Godly men and women who pray in tongues and have even been prayed for with the laying on of hands and speaking of tongues all around me. Except for getting the message loud and clear that "ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence". (Acts 1:5) I have yet to experience it. From being on RF for many years, I know this is not a popular belief here. But if you think of it, throw a prayer up for me to be filled with the evidence of speaking in tongues...cuz who wouldn't want that extra comfort, peace, counsel, teaching and power to witness? I pray for it daily.
Many years ago I got involved with a similar group. As I was praying for and desiring this experience, they all gathered around me and laid hands on me, praying. Nothing happened, so they kept telling me to just open my mouth and start speaking, but since nothing was happening to me, I was not about to fake it to get it started. If it was real, I wanted to know it. They kept telling me to quit thinking but I did not believe that turning off my brain was required to receive a gift. Finally, they gave me a record to take home and play that would teach me how to start making sounds that would turn into tongues. Unbelievable. Fake it till you make it?? I never did receive this gift. Actually, I am one who believes that the gifts ceased with the early church, but at that time i was still trying to figure things out. I now understand that we all are baptized in the Spirit when we are saved and there is no "second work." We don't receive part of a person--we either receive Him or we don't, He did not come part way in. We do not need to receive more of Him--we need to yield more of ourselves to Him. That is how to be filled with Him.
 
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