Babylon

[InsuranceGuy]

Do you believe the original Babylon will be rebuilt and is the Babylon spoken of in Revelation?

I do not think anyone is right or wrong. In studying this, I have found there are currently no plans to rebuild this ancient city. It was finally endorsed as a tourist site by many organizations in 2019. There is literally nothing there though and excavations for archeological digs are planned for many years into the foreseeable future.

That said, to take nothing but stone walls, many being half destroyed, and turn it into the center of the world's trade and commerce would take 20 years. Many of the tourist sites detail how difficult it is to simply get machinery in there, much less try to construct anything new.

Could Babylon be something else? I am having great difficulty seeing this downtrodden city being rebuilt in even two decades. Before building a massive city comes years of planning. The time to build such a city could only be compared to Abu Dhabi, which is still being built 20+ years after starting. It is beautiful though. For Babylon to look even remotely close to this, hundred of billions of dollars would have to be spent. In Abu Dhabi. The finest construction companies from all over the world work 24/7. An old friend of mine has spent the better part of the last decade there in construction.

If Babylon is the Babylon of old, it is a very long way from having anyone weep when it is destroyed.

My thoughts are either we are a very long way from the start of the Tribulation, or Babylon has to be somewhere else. I lean more towards us being a very long way from the Trib beginning as I believe literally that Babylon will be rebuilt.

If you understand logistics, construction. City planning and the extreme difficulty of working in a desert, you can easily see Babylon is twenty years, or very likely longer, away.

Your thoughts?

 

[ByGod'sGrace]

I do not believe Babylon is the physical site of old Babylon; I believe it is more "spiritual" abomination of Rome/Catholicism-ecumenism mixed with a political system set up by the AC. But that's just my own belief. I know there is a lot of evidence for both lines of thought.

Edited to say, I don't believe the Great Trib is all that far off...I don't think the gap between the rapture and the GT can be for 10+ years to build a city; more like a few months. Then again, that is all speculation. I am looking forward to other posts to see what people think...

 

[borrowedtime]

I’ve heard very compelling arguments for both Rome and Babylon. I tend to lean towards Babylon because Rome still inherits a lot of the old Babylon religious stuff and even after the Tower of Babel it came back later during Daniel. There was a verse I believe that also said the AC had an Assyrian connection. Truth is I don’t really try and solve that puzzle cause of the Rapture and Paul pretty clearly says we won’t be here.

The trib and Rapture can be a good amount of time and if we take the Babylon region they surely have a lot of oil money to build things fast. The process to build Babylon could be under way, Ac then steps on the scene and before the mid trib is when it’s completed with the whole world helping to build the AC’s dream castle.

 

[Sojourner414]

I don't think "Babylon" has to be at the old site in Iraq; it's always been representative more of the wicked spirit of unregenerate man than it has a singular place. ByGod'sGrace has a point about it being a spiritual abomination combined with a political system.

Not to mention the actual physical Babylon doesn't sit on "seven hills" (Rev. 17:9)

 

[daygo]

My thoughts are in the tribulation Babylon will be rebuilt, that wouldn't take long with today's resources and manpower. I have seen video of it and actually seen the asphalt in the roads of the old city where it could be the reason it burns as it says in revelation.

 

[Spartan Sprinter 1]

I personally lean towards a literal Babylon.

Look at Israel for example, people started doubting that Israel would come into existence again because of the length of time it remained a barron land for centuries yet it is now in existence again, so if God says Israel would come into existence again , then why wouldn't literal Babylon also come back into existence?

 

[Sojourner414]

I personally lean towards a literal Babylon.

Look at Israel for example, people started doubting that Israel would come into existence again because of the length of time it remained a barron land for centuries yet it is now in existence again, so if God says Israel would come into existence again , then why wouldn't literal Babylon also come back into existence?

Because while Israel has most often been refered to by the Lord as literal, the Lord has used the term Babylon in Scripture for more than just the literal city.

Noit to mention that the Lord made literal promises to Israel about her return. He never promised Babylon that they would physically return to the same spot the city stood. on (which wasn't on seven hills)

 

[Steve53]

https://gracethrufaith.com/end-times-prophecy/mystery-babylon-whats-the-mystery/

 

[madcat]

Dan, this is off the subject, but I wanted to tell you that Robert Jeffress (First Baptist Dallas) is airing his sermon “Will we know each other in heaven” today at 9:30 and 11 CST. I know at one time you were interested in different opinions, and thought you might like to catch this. Since his email said “join me and the sanctuary choir and orchestra“ it’s pre-COVID, but a timeless subject!!

 

[AnewcreationinJesus]

Andy Woods did about 6 sermons on Babylon specifically and one of the really interesting things he mentioned was the difference in KJV and NASB translations, the NASB reads in Revelation 17:5 "...a mystery, "BABYLON THE GREAT" and the KJV reads "a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT..."

So the KJV translators put mystery in the title which puts across the idea of "mystery Babylon"...which has kind of underlined over the years why people hold to a "mystery Babylon" interpretation ...

Woods very much takes Babylon literally, a literal city to be rebuilt, and goes through the various Babylon passages including the one in Isaiah which says Babylon will never again be inhabited - a prophecy Woods reckons is a future destruction of a future rebuilt Babylon ....as Babylon had people living there after the times of Daniel ....He starts with Genesis 11 re the tower of Babel re Shinar, and concludes that the coming AC rule will also be in Shinar...

He says that before 1948, people had a hard time with the Israel coming back into their own land literally, so some tended to not take those passages literally because all they could see was a wasteland.

In a nutshell, to sum up about 6 sermons, Babylon means ....Babylon....am not sure which others teach literal Babylon but it was certainly an interesting set of sermons to listen to!

There are things Woods has said that I disagree with, I just like his exhortation to study the Bible with literal things literal unless specified as allegorical! Am doing my own study on this at the moment actually ....so important to study for ourselves rather than just take sermon notes...

Its certainly interesting to think about, the time it would take to build the centre of the beast's system...and definitely that NEOM city would be a blueprint for that I reckon, with all the emphasis on "smart technology" and "sustainability" (I hate that word!!!!)

 

[InsuranceGuy]

I’ve heard very compelling arguments for both Rome and Babylon. I tend to lean towards Babylon because Rome still inherits a lot of the old Babylon religious stuff and even after the Tower of Babel it came back later during Daniel. There was a verse I believe that also said the AC had an Assyrian connection. Truth is I don’t really try and solve that puzzle cause of the Rapture and Paul pretty clearly says we won’t be here.

The trib and Rapture can be a good amount of time and if we take the Babylon region they surely have a lot of oil money to build things fast. The process to build Babylon could be under way, Ac then steps on the scene and before the mid trib is when it’s completed with the whole world helping to build the AC’s dream castle.

Babylon is not currently being rebuilt. You can research this yourself, and you should. Also, Abu Dhabi had the richest men in the world building it. Again, logistics, planning.... Money doesn't help you build faster than man is capable.. Babylon cannot be rebuilt anytime soon.

 

[InsuranceGuy]

My thoughts are in the tribulation Babylon will be rebuilt, that wouldn't take long with today's resources and manpower. I have seen video of it and actually seen the asphalt in the roads of the old city where it could be the reason it burns as it says in revelation.

Again, with unlimited resources of money and manpower, working around the clock 24/7, Abu Dhabi has taken 20 years. The planning has yet to be started on Babylon, much less any work. We would be looking at years of planning alone, then 20 years to make a city capable of what Babylon represents.

 

[Hidden]

The location of the final Babylon is something that we still don't know much about. As we go further down the road of the end times, we will see it slowly come into fruition. It is a literal, physical city that will be the world's center of humanism, secularism, idolatry, and sorcery.

Saudi's pet project, Neom, is intriguing, given it's proximity to Israel. Hmm...

 

[InsuranceGuy]

https://gracethrufaith.com/end-times-prophecy/mystery-babylon-whats-the-mystery/

The issue with Jack's article is he fails to memtion ALL the work Saddam did on Babylon was shut down and removed in 1987. All he did was try to open a few restaurants and tourist shops to make it more tourist friendly. No tourists came though and all was torn down.

Jack also avoids detailing how long it would take to turn this slab of stone into the greatest city on earth. I still tend to think this is literal, but it is not happening anytime soon. Maybe not even in our lifetime.

 

[Andy C]

Do you believe the original Babylon will be rebuilt and is the Babylon spoken of in Revelation?

Yes.

Over the last few decades, the rebuilding has started. Yes, there is a long way to go to make it the center of the world trading system. However, after the rapture, and especially by the start of the tribulation, with all the nations helping, how long would it really take for this super city to be built? Probably not anywhere near as long as we think. But, we do know it will happen because His Word says it will.

 

[Andy C]

Again, with unlimited resources of money and manpower, working around the clock 24/7, Abu Dhabi has taken 20 years. The planning has yet to be started on Babylon, much less any work. We would be looking at years of planning alone, then 20 years to make a city capable of what Babylon represents.

Your assumptions are based upon rebuilding in normal times. With the AC in control from the start of the tribulation, he will direct all the resources from throughout the world to build, and build it as fast as nothing has ever been done before.

IMO, the length of time it would take to rebuild Babylon has no impact on the timing of the rapture or the start of the tribulation.

 

[daygo]

Again, with unlimited resources of money and manpower, working around the clock 24/7, Abu Dhabi has taken 20 years. The planning has yet to be started on Babylon, much less any work. We would be looking at years of planning alone, then 20 years to make a city capable of what Babylon represents.

Disagree, with everything poured into building this city, can be done quite quickly, remember China has cities that are empty that have built quickly, can be done easily.

 

[Andy C]

The issue with Jack's article is he fails to memtion ALL the work Saddam did on Babylon was shut down and removed in 1987. All he did was try to open a few restaurants and tourist shops to make it more tourist friendly. No tourists came though and all was torn down.

Jack also avoids detailing how long it would take to turn this slab of stone into the greatest city on earth. I still tend to think this is literal, but it is not happening anytime soon. Maybe not even in our lifetime.

Did you ever watch the TV show “Extreme Home Makeover”? The crew would take a house that in some cases had to be entirely rebuilt from the foundation up, and it had to be completed within 5 days. All kinds of contractors would show up to make this “miracle” rebuilding happen.

Imagine how much could happen with millions of workers being directed by the AC to build him his city. Its not like building permits would cause a delay with the AC in charge. Also, we know it will be a great city, the center of the worlds trading, but what is the definition of a great city? Would that mean it would look like NYC with all kinds of high rise buildings? Or, would it be more like an ancient city, without most of the modern trappings of luxury? Who really knows, buts its probably somewhere in between a NYC and a ancient city.

I would not discount how much power the AC will have to get whatever he wants, in a timeframe he sets.

 

[Saved and Waiting]

https://gracethrufaith.com/end-times-prophecy/mystery-babylon-whats-the-mystery/

Just read this article by Jack a few days ago!! I agree, Andy, that we really don't understand or realize how much power and push the AC will have. I believe, and have for 50 years, that the New Babylon would be in Iraq again. I feel blessed to have been an American but I see us becoming less and less significant in the world and the whole scheme of things to come. God certainly has blessed our nation mostly because of our support of Israel but the end times center is the Middle East, especially Israel. I believe America is being taken out of the game and moved to the sidelines as God turns His full attention back to Israel. Under the authority and ruthless push from the AC to rebuild Babylon I don't see it taking long at all...Project supernatural fast and furious I call it. Then God throws those darn monkey wrenches later on.....again....I am hoping to be watching it all from the New Jerusalem.

 

[Tall Timbers]

Yes, I believe the old Babylon is the Babylon. But that opinion of mine is not important in the least... it's just the way I lean from my studies. I don't experience any angst when others have different viewpoints on the topic, and I like reading what others have to say about it.

It's interesting to note that the massive embassy that the USA built in Iraq not all that long ago is essentially on the outskirts of Babylon. So, if Babylon is the Bablyon, as it rebuilds the US Embassy location will find itself in the town proper.