As It Was In The Days Of Noah

katt

Well-Known Member
Remember, there are good reasons why these books are not the Bible. They maybe interesting or fascinating to read (I personally haven't read either one), but they should not be taken with the same weight and authority as scripture. JMHO.
Jasher is recommended reading for history in the old testament, we are given permission to read the book of Enoch because it is referred to in the new testament, I don't believe anyone had the right to hide those books from us, the prophets knew about the book of Jasher and the Apostles obviously knew about the book of Enoch..they are not to be referred to for Salvation purposes, but for history? Yes..Is what we have the origional books? Well, pieces of Enoch are part of the dead sea scrolls, I don't know about Jasher, only God knows for sure..but Jesus did say.."as in the days of Noah....", and I believe there was more going on in those days than marrying and giving in marrage, violence and people wallowing in sin..you can bet if we're doing it now, they were doing it then..I believe The Angels that left their place brought all their technical skills with them and gave it all to mankind..IMHO and it's just my opinion, I believe Ecclesiastes means what says when it says there is nothing new under the sun..
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Jasher is recommended reading for history in the old testament, we are given permission to read the book of Enoch because it is referred to in the new testament, I don't believe anyone had the right to hide those books from us, the prophets knew about the book of Jasher and the Apostles obviously knew about the book of Enoch..they are not to be referred to for Salvation purposes, but for history? Yes..Is what we have the origional books? Well, pieces of Enoch are part of the dead sea scrolls, I don't know about Jasher, only God knows for sure..but Jesus did say.."as in the days of Noah....", and I believe there was more going on in those days than marrying and giving in marrage, violence and people wallowing in sin..you can bet if we're doing it now, they were doing it then..I believe The Angels that left their place brought all their technical skills with them and gave it all to mankind..IMHO and it's just my opinion, I believe Ecclesiastes means what says when it says there is nothing new under the sun..
Im confidant God allowed the books in the bible as we know it today, to be exactly the ones He wanted.

You did not respond to the Jack Kelley link I provided which was about the meaning of “nothing new under the sun”, which I completely agree with his teaching.
 

Carl

Well-Known Member
I think somethings in the water after reading some of these posts.

Equivalent tech back in the pre flood days, really? So in the first 1600 years of man, the technology was as good as todays, even though it has taken approx 4500-5000 years since the flood to get to where we are now? There are zero clues in the Bible about there being anything remotely to what we have now.

Am I misreading posts? Remember, it does not take much to confuse me…:dilbert
Something to consider is that people lived a lot longer back then. So lots more time to follow up on inventions. Don't know how far they went.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Something to consider is that people lived a lot longer back then. So lots more time to follow up on inventions. Don't know how far they went.
You must know by now, Im a simple man, just bright enough to not get lost in the dark.

If there was advanced tech back before the flood, I think those who lived on both sides of the flood would have mentioned it. After all, the wooden spoke wheel was not even invented until hundreds of years after the flood.

I agree, their minds would have been sharper back then, they definetly lived longer, but there is not one iota of evidence that they had advanced tech, as compared to todays tech.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
You must know by now, Im a simple man, just bright enough to not get lost in the dark.

If there was advanced tech back before the flood, I think those who lived on both sides of the flood would have mentioned it. After all, the wooden spoke wheel was not even invented until hundreds of years after the flood.

I agree, their minds would have been sharper back then, they definetly lived longer, but there is not one iota of evidence that they had advanced tech, as compared to todays tech.
Part of me is wondering if Adrain “100 percent” agreed with my post, based on my first sentence of that post…o_O
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
I agree, Andy. Not one iota of evidence exists, even though pre-flood history exists in the geologic record. The earlier quoted verse in Ecclesiastes refers to mankind's ideas and actions, not to their inventions and successes.

Respectfully, to posit a highly advanced civilization before the flood is to engage in wild speculation without one sliver of evidence. Lots of hypotheses, but no evidence to support any. While the year long flood would definitely have destroyed all terrestrial living creatures and likely their wood and mud-based dwellings, removing all evidence of their existence, it could not have removed all evidence of designed and constructed metallic inventions and devices. Further, to suggest that in a quarter of the number of generations (Adam to Noah compared to Noah to us) the pre-flood people could accomplish much more than the post-flood people is to ignore the wondrous inventions of the ancient post-flood world: not just the colossal engineering feats that took place in the centuries after Noah

; but the mastery of metallurgy; the development of the sciences, including the precise calculations of planetary movements; and complex mechanical inventions such as the mechanical calculator found at Antikythera in Greece. No, respectfully, the pre-flood world was one of increasingly brutish and self-worshiping people who were destroyed not for their supposed scientific and engineering prowess but for their base wickedness in totally (Noah and his family excepted) departing from the Creator of the universe.

Folks, entertaining ideas in the absence of evidence because they strike us as interesting or possible or because they capture our imagination is to prepare dangerous soil. Satan loves it when we do that, because it gives him fertile ground in which to plant his sneaky seeds of deception. It is why the Bible warns us to "cast down imaginations (Greek logismos ie: 'reasonings') and every high thing (Greek hypsoma, ie: 'presumption') that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." The "knowledge of God" refers to knowing all that God is, which information we receive exclusively from His Word. It also refers to the knowledge that comes from God which comes primarily through His Word, but also through the laws of science and nature which He put in place and which He enables us to discover as we probe the wonders of His Creation.
 

katt

Well-Known Member
Im confidant God allowed the books in the bible as we know it today, to be exactly the ones He wanted.

You did not respond to the Jack Kelley link I provided which was about the meaning of “nothing new under the sun”, which I completely agree with his teaching.
I'm sorry Andy...but I'm a literalist..of course I do use the rule of thumb for Eschatology I don't know the exact quote..but it goes something like... always take the bible as literal sinse instead of symbolized sinse lest you end up with nonsense..anyhow..I believe what it says..
I don't believe it's allagory..and I don't believe what it says can be explained away..

For example I take Revelation 9:8 literally..I don't believe it's helicopters...as I have heard it taught..I dont know what they are..but it says what it says and I just take it at it's word..

Didn't mean to ignore your post..I did read it..but I still say..I believe there is nothing new under the sun because Ecclesiastes says there is nothing new under the sun..we may have a better version..but if we have it now..it's been here before.. because Ecclesiastes says it has..besides we got to the moon in less than a hundred years after the airplane was invented..the people before the flood were much more intelligent than we are and had 1500 years to invent and of course the fallen angels had a hand in all the technology they taught mankind..even if man himself never got off the ground they saw beings who did..
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I agree, Andy. Not one iota of evidence exists, even though pre-flood history exists in the geologic record. The earlier quoted verse in Ecclesiastes refers to mankind's ideas and actions, not to their inventions and successes.

Respectfully, to posit a highly advanced civilization before the flood is to engage in wild speculation without one sliver of evidence. Lots of hypotheses, but no evidence to support any. While the year long flood would definitely have destroyed all terrestrial living creatures and likely their wood and mud-based dwellings, removing all evidence of their existence, it could not have removed all evidence of designed and constructed metallic inventions and devices. Further, to suggest that in a quarter of the number of generations (Adam to Noah compared to Noah to us) the pre-flood people could accomplish much more than the post-flood people is to ignore the wondrous inventions of the ancient post-flood world: not just the colossal engineering feats that took place in the centuries after Noah

; but the mastery of metallurgy; the development of the sciences, including the precise calculations of planetary movements; and complex mechanical inventions such as the mechanical calculator found at Antikythera in Greece. No, respectfully, the pre-flood world was one of increasingly brutish and self-worshiping people who were destroyed not for their supposed scientific and engineering prowess but for their base wickedness in totally (Noah and his family excepted) departing from the Creator of the universe.

Folks, entertaining ideas in the absence of evidence because they strike us as interesting or possible or because they capture our imagination is to prepare dangerous soil. Satan loves it when we do that, because it gives him fertile ground in which to plant his sneaky seeds of deception. It is why the Bible warns us to "cast down imaginations (Greek logismos ie: 'reasonings') and every high thing (Greek hypsoma, ie: 'presumption') that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." The "knowledge of God" refers to knowing all that God is, which information we receive exclusively from His Word. It also refers to the knowledge that comes from God which comes primarily through His Word, but also through the laws of science and nature which He put in place and which He enables us to discover as we probe the wonders of His Creation.
Im a little surprised this thread has not been closed. The wildest of theories is not always a good look for our community, especially for
those who are lurking.
 

lamonte

Well-Known Member
I love those verse about Noah in Gen 6 and Matt 24, I love what 2 Pet say about Jesus coming, they remind me Jesus could come today, I just love the Scripture.

I believe in what the Scriptures say on creation, on Adam, on the Flood, on the Gospel, on Christ coming, I don’t need any help from historians, from scientists, dreams, or visions. I always like to use the Scriptures for my filter when comes to what others say.

My faith is not dependent on what I see or what man says, my faith is dependent on the Scriptures alone.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The writers of the Bible did not give their own private interpretation of things but wrote the message which was given to them by God.
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
Im a little surprised this thread has not been closed. The wildest of theories is not always a good look for our community, especially for
those who are lurking.
Sometimes, Andy, I think that when a thread gets off the rails, it is more useful to others to aim it back by giving reasons why the new rail was not a good or useful rail, rather than sitting down the discussion. I figure if somebody here raises something, they are not the only ones to have thought of it or heard of it. Thus, when we give the reasons why the thing may not be good, we are helping more than just the person who made the post.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Sometimes, Andy, I think that when a thread gets off the rails, it is more useful to others to aim it back by giving reasons why the new rail was not a good or useful rail, rather than sitting down the discussion. I figure if somebody here raises something, they are not the only ones to have thought of it or heard of it. Thus, when we give the reasons why the thing may not be good, we are helping more than just the person who made the post.
Wise response brother.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
I have read a lot about pre-flood civilization by creationist, mostly ICR. Their ideas are not wild speculation but based on Scripture.

God created man with perfect minds and bodies. We have no concept of what that could even mean. They were put into a perfect environment, which began to change after eviction from the garden, but the changes--such as genetic mutations and the development of diseases-- would only happen slowly. Think about people living almost a thousand years, all speaking one language, extremely intelligent, on one super-continent, with no extremes of weather to make life difficult, and with many generations over-lapping so knowledge could easily be shared. We see Adam instantly able to recognize and name all the animals, and we are told of technology early on in Gen. 4. Surely knowledge and technology increased at a much higher rate then than now. Claims of population comparable to current population are based on modern percentages of population growth, using simple and even conservative calculations, considering how long men lived and procreated with large families, most likely less troubled than us by early mortality due to illness or food shortage.

We would like to think, and evolutionists have taught us, that mankind is getting progressively more intelligent and superior. But I think there is biblical evidence that instead, our bodies and brains are suffering from more and more deterioration.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
My difficulty with the perfect minds and body argument is that that perfection ended the day Adam sinned. Those subsequently born outside the Garden were born with sin-tainted, corrupted minds and degenerating bodies.
Mutations accumulate slowly. We know this because it was safe, necessary and permissible to marry close relatives until the time of the Law.

Another factor I forgot to mention was apparently the atmosphere being different, allowing them to age so slowly, something that changed after the flood.
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
Nothing New Under The Sun
By Jack Kelley

Question: Can you explain what Ecclesiastes 1:9 means when it says “and there is no new thing under the sun”. Is that implying that everything that we discover or learn about has already happened or has been here in the past?

Answer: Obviously there are some specific things we’re familiar with that Solomon couldn’t have imagined, but even those are often adaptations of principles that are as old as time. From reading all of Ecclesiastes 1:1-11, I think His point was that the basic principles that make the creation function have not changed since God put them into place.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/nothing-new-sun/

I'm going to expound on this a little from a physical and spiritual standpoint.

Let's take sex and all that comes with it. We know from the Bible and from history (especially Roman History) that some of the emperors of that time were some of the most sexually perverted and sick people that have ever lived. Many people today are that way as well. :sad

Nudity, orgies, homosexual relations, incest, sex with animals, etc. etc. etc. have all occurred in the distant past and they occur even today. :sad

With the advent of technology man has taken the same things that have happened in the past and instead of having to go down to the Temple or similar place for sex with the Temple prostitutes, etc. man has taken technology, first with TV and then later with the Internet, and brought it all under his own roof and in the privacy of his own home without having to go through all the trouble to access it. And he can oftentimes access it for FREE. :doh

I can even see in the future than man will find a way to access and view these things without even having to go to his computer, phone, etc. to view these things. He could implant himself with something to make for "instant" access in his mind to view what he wants. :doh All he will have to do is close his eyes and click his heels and it appears in his head. :doh :rolleyes Man just invents news ways of doing the same old evils that have plagued us since sin came into the world. :sad

Many people talk about the increase of the access of pornography, etc. but the truth of the matter is that all of this stuff has been going on for 1,000s of years. Look at the red light districts in the Netherlands, France, and any other place in the world. They call prostitution the oldest profession in the world. They sacrificed babies to Molech and the Aztecs and other tribes did human sacrifices as well. Long after the Bible mentioned it.

Today, we are aborting babies as fast as possible. The child sacrifices to the god of convenience (our modern version of Molech) continue today with new laws in the works in liberal states to even abort babies after they reach full term. :doh :cry

These things show that mankind whether it is physically or spiritually, things have unfortunately been the same in the past and in the current time. And it will continue to be that way until the Lord puts a stop to it when His patience runs out with mankind.

We could go on with other examples as well.

So, what does that mean? Just what the Book of Ecclesiastes said..."There's nothing new under the sun!"

And boy was it right.
 
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