Are the Gifts of the Spirit meant for the Church today?

Jan51

Well-Known Member
My question to you when you said no deliverance ministry but what about this verse:

Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness. Matthew 10
Jesus did not give this authority (to heal and to cast out demons) to all believers, but to His disciples/apostles. We have no record of anyone else casting out demons or of healing. Nor does Paul instruct the church to do so.
 

AnewcreationinJesus

Soon and very soon ....
Jesus did not give this authority (to heal and to cast out demons) to all believers, but to His disciples/apostles. We have no record of anyone else casting out demons or of healing. Nor does Paul instruct the church to do so.

This is what bethel Redding teach - they try to take instructions meant for the lord's true apostles and make it apply for today, hence the treasure hunts, dead raising stories etc etc ....
Now if the moniker had been "bald eagle"... I'd figure fer sure it was a fella. :)

:ahaha
 

Salluz

Aspiring Man of God
Jesus did not give this authority (to heal and to cast out demons) to all believers, but to His disciples/apostles. We have no record of anyone else casting out demons or of healing. Nor does Paul instruct the church to do so.

I say this with the utmost respect knowing you're much more knowledgeable about the bible than I am. Something about me being a young upstart won't let me keep quiet though, I guess :lol

I can think of two places where believers are told to heal off the top of my head, the first being James 4

14 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

Miracles and healing are also listed by Paul as gifts of the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12

4 Now there are different gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are different ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are different activities, but the same God activates each gift in each person. 7 A demonstration of the Spirit is given to each person to produce what is beneficial:

8 to one is given a message of wisdom
through the Spirit,
to another, a message of knowledge
by the same Spirit,
9 to another, faith by the same Spirit,
to another, gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
10 to another, the performing of miracles,
to another, prophecy,
to another, distinguishing between spirits,
to another, different kinds of languages,
to another, interpretation of languages.

11 But one and the same Spirit is active in all these, distributing to each person as He wills.
 
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mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
Respectfully, I have to agree with Salluz. I understand the arguments for Cessationism. I can tell you that at one time I carefully considered them; but in the light of Scripture I had to reject them. Further, I have personally seen too many dramatic examples of healings as a result of laying on of hands and of prayer to dismiss the gift of healing as not applicable for today.

Now, I am not trying to begin an argument with anybody. I do understand why some people reject the gifts of the Holy Spirit as being for today because of the abuses to which they've been subjected in Charismatic circles. So, if you choose to believe that the gifts ended with the apostles, then believe that. I think you're wrong, but it is not a question of salvation. I think you are depriving yourself of something important that God has given to the Church. But that is a matter between you and God. I have only entered this discussion because I do not believe that we should teach Cessationism as doctrine here. Frankly, I see no strong scriptural argument for it, but a lot of argument in favor of the gifts being for the Church throughout this Age. In any case, let's not teach Cessationism as settled doctrine on this site.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
I can think of two places where believers are told to heal off the top of my head, the first being James 4...

Miracles and healing are also listed by Paul as gifts of the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12
In any case, let's not teach Cessationism as settled doctrine on this site.
It is a biblical fact that we do not see the authority to cast out demons used by any but Jesus and His disciples/apostles. We have no biblical record of the gift of healing used by any except the apostles. James speaks of praying for others for healing, which is different than a person having the gift of healing and being able to heal anyone instantly. James does not call for someone with the gift of healing, but rather to pray and anoint with oil. Paul lists healing as a gift but that does not necessarily mean that any besides the apostles had this gift. I am not teaching any particular doctrine; I have not mentioned cessationism. I am merely being a Berean and looking to see what Scripture actually says.
 

lenraff

Well-Known Member
It is a biblical fact that we do not see the authority to cast out demons used by any but Jesus and His disciples/apostles. We have no biblical record of the gift of healing used by any except the apostles. James speaks of praying for others for healing, which is different than a person having the gift of healing and being able to heal anyone instantly. James does not call for someone with the gift of healing, but rather to pray and anoint with oil. Paul lists healing as a gift but that does not necessarily mean that any besides the apostles had this gift. I am not teaching any particular doctrine; I have not mentioned cessationism. I am merely being a Berean and looking to see what Scripture actually says.
I believe Paul said GIFTS of healing. You may also consider the open end command by Paul to seek the gifts.
1Co_12:1
1Co_12:9 
1Co_14:1 

Rom_11:29  For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. He hasn't changed His mind.
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
So the gifts given by the Holy Spirit to the Church were only given to the disciples/apostles??? Respectfully, Jan, you may not have mentioned the word Cessationism, but Cessationsim is what you are speaking. You claim you are being a Berean, but ignoring or limiting certain scriptures. If you want to continue this, then let's not do it in this thread. We'll start another.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
So the gifts given by the Holy Spirit to the Church were only given to the disciples/apostles??? Respectfully, Jan, you may not have mentioned the word Cessationism, but Cessationsim is what you are speaking. You claim you are being a Berean, but ignoring or limiting certain scriptures. If you want to continue this, then let's not do it in this thread. We'll start another.
You are misquoting me. I never said all the gifts were only given to the apostles. I am merely observing what exactly we see in Scripture. What is wrong with that or against board rules?
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
Jesus did not give this authority (to heal and to cast out demons) to all believers, but to His disciples/apostles.
Paul lists healing as a gift but that does not necessarily mean that any besides the apostles had this gift.
Cessationism is the belief that the gifts of the Spirit died out with the apostles because they were meant only for them in order to give witness to the early Church. But 1 Corinthians 12 through 14 clearly states these gifts were given to the Church for the building up of all and that we should desire the best gifts while nonetheless recognizing that it is the Holy Spirit that apportions them among us.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
Cessationism is the belief that the gifts of the Spirit died out with the apostles because they were meant only for them in order to give witness to the early Church. But 1 Corinthians 12 through 14 clearly states these gifts were given to the Church for the building up of all and that we should desire the best gifts while nonetheless recognizing that it is the Holy Spirit that apportions them among us.
I know what cessationism is, and I was not arguing for that view--I was pointing out what I thought was an interesting observation about Scripture. Cessationism and continuationism are both widely held by many believers; they are two views of Scripture but are not salvation issues. I know that many base their views on what they see in the church today or what has happened in their own lives or in other people's lives. I am not speaking to that or arguing with your experiences. But I do believe that experiences should not be the basis of doctrine; experiences need to be evaluated in the light of Scripture.

I feel like you keep trying to change or minimize my original point from the other thread, which is, what do we actually see in Scripture about casting out demons and healing in Bible days. You have made my post into a thread and given it a title that does not reflect my post at all or the original purpose of my post in the other thread. If you wanted to create such a thread, you might have started it with a post of your own, since that is what you are wanting to argue about. I do not wish to argue that topic; it has already been hashed out on this board.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
Jan51, respectfully, your posts here and in other threads do come across to me strongly as from a cessationism viewpoint. Perhaps more so than you realise?
I am a cessationist, yes. But that is not the point of my post. I've been trying to point out that it is important to see what Scripture says and what it doesn't on a particular topic that was being discussed. Some things that people say are reading into Scripture what is not there.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Cessationism is the belief that the gifts of the Spirit died out with the apostles because they were meant only for them in order to give witness to the early Church. But 1 Corinthians 12 through 14 clearly states these gifts were given to the Church for the building up of all and that we should desire the best gifts while nonetheless recognizing that it is the Holy Spirit that apportions them among us.
Amen, well stated, and completely concur.
 

Kaatje

My soul waits for the Lord, and in His Word I hope
Do you think we have some "say" in the gift(s) we recieve by our desire for them? Or is it solely at the discretion of God?
I think it is both. They are not opposed to each other, but complementary.

Firstly, it is at the discretion of God:
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

And secondly, we are to strive for them as well:
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. - But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
I think it is both. They are not opposed to each other, but complementary.

Firstly, it is at the discretion of God:
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

And secondly, we are to strive for them as well:
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. - But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
Excellent scriptural answer!
 

lismore

Well-Known Member
Hello All. To answer the question I would say yes, the gifts of the Spirit are for today, with several qualifications however. I was a member in a Pentecostal Church for 8 years, there are extremes, even fakery about that might repel many believers from Spiritual Gifts entirely. To speak of Spiritual Gifts:

-Let all things be done decently and in order (1 Cor 14:40). Not out of control, in submission to the authority in the Church
-The Canon of Scripture is closed. God still speaks today, God speaks through his word, but no-one can add to the word of God. Not prophecy in the 'OT Sense'.
-Blessed are the pure in heart- for the right motives only.
God Bless All :)
 
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