Are books like 23 minutes in hell biblical?

Batfan7

Well-Known Member
I tend to discount these kinds of stories. Heaven moreso than Hell. I mean, when people experience the presence of God in scripture, it seems to be terrifying. Even for saved people (like John), unless they've been glorified first.

But, if an imaginary experience does get people saved, then I don't discount the real impact it had on that person. It just seems that most experiences people report don't lead to salvation.
 

RonJohnSilver

Well-Known Member
Terry James of Rapture Ready claims he had a couple of visions of what he thought was Heaven, when he flatlined a couple of times on the operating table, if I remember his account accurately. . He said he saw a bunch of young people expressing ultimate joy of being there. No visions of God the Father or Jesus, but these young people overjoyed. Again, I hope I'm retelling it correctly. I've heard him talk of that a couple of times. I don't know if I can totally discount any claims like that. A brief glimpse or two, or maybe just a dream? Even Paul, when given visions of Heaven, couldn't tell if he was there in spirit only or in the flesh. Whether in the body or out of the body, he didn't know.
I've read Terry's statements regarding his experience and, frankly, I don't know how to interpret it. I like and respect Terry and I'm nearly always in agreement with him and I certainly wouldn't look for him to have any improper motives or deceit. Still, though, I question whether these trips? visions? are inspired or sent from God.
 

lightofmylife

Blessed Hope-Prepare To Fly!
I've read Terry's statements regarding his experience and, frankly, I don't know how to interpret it. I like and respect Terry and I'm nearly always in agreement with him and I certainly wouldn't look for him to have any improper motives or deceit. Still, though, I question whether these trips? visions? are inspired or sent from God.
As I read this thread, Terry James is the person that I thought of after reading his story. I feel the same way it doesn't pass the scripture test with me.
 

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
Acts 2:17-19:

And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19I will show wonders in heaven above
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
Acts 2:17-19:

And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19I will show wonders in heaven above
This does not refer to the church age. Read the context, Joel 2, this happens to Israel following the tribulation, in the kingdom. We have definitely not yet seen the sun darkened and the moon turned to blood. This is future and is not support for dreams, visions or prophecy today.
 

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
This does not refer to the church age. Read the context, Joel 2, this happens to Israel following the tribulation, in the kingdom. We have definitely not yet seen the sun darkened and the moon turned to blood. This is future and is not support for dreams, visions or prophecy today.

I quoted it from Acts. Peter was using that prophecy from Joel to rebut the Jews of his day who had accused the disciples of being drunk when they were speaking in other tongues. Peter was implying that the prophecy of Joel was happening before their eyes, at that present time. If he was filled with the Holy Spirit and that was the day of Pentecost and he is using the Holy Spirit inspired words of Joel to enlighten the Jews present then, then the quote was not misapplied
.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
I quoted it from Acts. Peter was using that prophecy from Joel to rebut the Jews of his day who had accused the disciples of being drunk when they were speaking in other tongues. Peter was implying that the prophecy of Joel was happening before their eyes, at that present time. If he was filled with the Holy Spirit and that was the day of Pentecost and he is using the Holy Spirit inspired words of Joel to enlighten the Jews present then, then the quote was not misapplied
.
Peter was likening it to that. Peter knew Scripture well enough to know it spoke of the kingdom. Again, in those days, or yet today, have we seen the sun and moon part, which is the rest of the quote in Acts? Nor Has God's Spirit yet been poured out on all flesh--that happens in the kingdom. Peter was countering the charge of drunkenness with facts from Scripture that identify the moving of the Holy Spirit being displayed.
 

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
Peter was likening it to that. Peter knew Scripture well enough to know it spoke of the kingdom. Again, in those days, or yet today, have we seen the sun and moon part, which is the rest of the quote in Acts? Nor Has God's Spirit yet been poured out on all flesh--that happens in the kingdom. Peter was countering the charge of drunkenness with facts from Scripture that identify the moving of the Holy Spirit being displayed.

That is a stretch. You get that from “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel”. That it is like it?. No way. You are twisting scripture.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
That is a stretch. You get that from “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel”. That it is like it?. No way. You are twisting scripture.
If Peter was saying this was the fulfillment of Joel (thereby negating the biblical principle of always taking things in context), he could have said this fulfilled that. He does speak of fulfillment of Scripture in Acts 1:16 and 3:18 but he did not use that terminology. This did not fulfill that and he did not say that it did. No stretch.
 

SkyRider

Well-Known Member
Peter was speaking under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. In this case then, the Holy Spirit is quoting again the Holy Spirit inspired words of Joel. Peter, again, under the influence of the Holy Spirit is telling the Jews present, at that time, in the beginning of the Church Age: “This is THAT spoken of by the prophet Joel” regarding what was taking place PRESENTLY. Not what was going to happen 2000 years later during the Trib Period. I don't see where the confusion lies.

This is not “like it”. “This IS that....”.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
Peter was speaking under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. In this case then, the Holy Spirit is quoting again the Holy Spirit inspired words of Joel. Peter, again, under the influence of the Holy Spirit is telling the Jews present, at that time, in the beginning of the Church Age: “This is THAT spoken of by the prophet Joel” regarding what was taking place PRESENTLY. Not what was going to happen 2000 years later during the Trib Period. I don't see where the confusion lies.

This is not “like it”. “This IS that....”.
No confusion, just following the rules of context and comparison. So if you believe Joel 2 was fulfilled in Acts 2, then you believe we are in the kingdom and the day of the Lord has come??
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
Do you believe Joel 2 was fulfilled in Acts 2? Do you believe we are in the kingdom?

You base your position on quoting word for word. I am basing mine on context and comparing Scripture with Scripture.
 

Neonap

Well-Known Member
These experiences aren't dreams or real events, people could believe they happened because their brain does wild things when near death.

Exactly. If the Rich man's request of having someone from the dead warn his brothers of hell was denied, then that tells me that once you die, there's no coming back. No trip or tour to hell and returning. Near death experiences, or visions could very well be a trick from the enemy or our brain going on overdrive.

Now can God use a horrific near death experience to have someone to repent before that person dies? Maybe. But I believe in scripture when it states that it is appointed for man to die once and then judgement.
 
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