Apostasia

Ohioan

Well-Known Member
I knew a Jewish brother in the Lord at another website and one of his greetings was apostasia, well of course he used it as a meaning for departure.

https://www.rapturenotes.com/apostasia-departure-falling-away.html



Apostasy or Departure

By Bob Jones




There are those that believe "apostasia" means simply a departure from the faith, whilst the below argument supports the position that "apostasia" means a literal departure, in this case, The Rapture. Time will tell the truth of it.

A suitable compromise could be that it will mean both in practice. That is, there will be a deception leading to a wide scale abandonment (apostasia) of the Christian faith as we know it, followed by a departure (apostasia) of the Christians from the earth. ...Keygar





QUESTION:

What does "except there come a falling away first" in 2 Thess. 2:3 mean?

ANSWER:

Thanks for the question, this passage has been the subject of much controversy, as to whether this speaks of a period of great "apostasy", or whether it refers to the "departure", or "Rapture" of the Church.

I believe the KJV phrase "falling away", in 2 Thess. 2:3, refers to the "departure", or "Rapture" of the Church.

The KJV English phrase "falling away", in 2 Thess. 2:3, is the one Greek word "apostasia", and its basic meaning is to "depart from" or "go away".

The Greek word "Apostasia" is a compound of two Greek words: "Apo" = "to move away", "stasis" means "standing or state", or "to stand".

Literally, from its basic definition, "apostasia" means "to go away from", or "depart", or "change state or standing from one state to another".

"Apostasia" was used in extra Biblical Greek literature to describe political revolt, or a "going away from the establishment" and in the Septuagint, or Greek Old Testament, when the Jews would "go away" from God to worship other gods.

"Apostasia" is only used one other time in the New Testament, in Acts 21:21 to describe "forsaking", or "going away from" the teachings of Moses.

"Apostasion", the noun form, appears in Matt 5:31, & 19:7, and Mark 10:4 where it describes a "writing of divorcement", or "papers that separate". (Again, so someone can go away).

"Apostasia" literally then means "to depart, or go away from", and to "go away from what" must be determined from the context.

So, what is the "context" of both the First and Second Epistle to the Church at Thessalonica? The sole subject and context of both epistles is the "Rapture", or "Departure" of the Church, or "the called out ones," and advice to the Church while we await the Return of Christ for the Church. The Second letter to the Church at Thessalonica appears to have been written by Paul to clear up misunderstandings about his First Letter. (2 Thess. 2:1-5)

The Greek word "apostasia" in 2 Thess. 2:3 also has the Greek article "the" in front of it, in the Greek text, which makes it, not a general "going away", or "departure", but "The Departure", a special EVENT, that the reader is expected to already know about.

In other words, the use of the article "the" with "apostasia" in 2 Thess. 2:3 indicates that Paul expects the Thessalonian Christians to already understand that this is the title of an event, and he expects them to already know what it means.

Had the Apostle Paul already taught the Thessalonians about an "EVENT" that could be described as a "departure", or "going away"? Absolutely, yes.

Paul had already taught the Thessalonian Church about the EVENT, of the Catching Away and "Departure" of the Church in 1 Thess 4:13-18.

In 2 Thess 2:5, Paul says don’t you remember? When I was with you I taught you about these things?

I don't see where Paul taught them at all about "a falling away from the truth" in his first letter, but he taught them about the Rapture of the church in at least five passages in 1st Thessalonians:

1. 1 Thess 1:10 "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead,[even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

2. 1 Thess 2:19 "For what [is] our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? [Are] not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?"

3. 1 Thess 3:13 "To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints."

4. 1 Thess 4:13 - 5:10:


Verse 13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Chapter 5

Verse 1 But of the times and the seasons (dispensations), brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord (Tribulation and Second Advent) so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when THEY shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon THEM, as travail upon a woman with child; and THEY shall not escape.

4 But YE, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake YOU as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, (The Tribulation is God's Wrath upon the earth) but to obtain salvation (Greek "sodzo" or "safety") by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
5. 1 Thess 5:23 "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Also, in Paul's second letter to the Thessalonian Church, in 2 Thess. 2:2, we find that someone had apparently written a letter to the Thessalonian Church saying that the "Day of Christ", the Rapture, was past, in other words, they had missed it, and now they were in the "Day of the Lord", or seven year Tribulation.

In 2 Thess 2:1-5, Paul is proving that they have not missed the Rapture and were now in the Tribulation, but that the Rapture is still future. Paul says:

1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (the Rapture of the Church).

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ (Rapture of the Church) is at hand. ("at hand" is a Greek "perfect tense" verb, meaning the Rapture has already happened and is in the past - that would mean they missed the Rapture and are now in the Tribulation).

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come] (this phrase is not in the Greek, but is added by the translators. The Greek "ean may" = "that cannot happen"), except there come a falling away first, (THE Departure of the Church, first) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (and Antichrist revealed).

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

In the above verses, Paul tells them "that cannot happen", TWO things must occur before the "day of the Lord", or 7 year Tribulation, arrives, #1 "THE departure" first, and #2 "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".

So, I believe Paul proves to the Church at Thessalonica that they are not in the "Tribulation", as someone had written them, because the Seven Year Tribulation cannot begin until the "Rapture" of the Church occurs and the "man of sin", the "Antichrist" is revealed.

If Paul had been referring to a "general falling away from the truth", it would have "proved" nothing to the Church at Thessalonica, because there was "apostasy" at the time, and there have been, and will continue to be great periods of falling away from the truth throughout the Church Age.

Every reference, that I find, to the "catching away" of the living saints, is described as "imminent", and can happen at any moment - there is no prophesy to be fulfilled before the Rapture can occur.

Think about it, if the "falling away" Paul refers to is a distinct period of "apostasy", of "falling away from the truth", and the world has now been through the "Dark Ages", when Christians were persecuted and Bibles were burned, then Paul would mean "THE period of falling from the truth" that is worse and more defined than the Dark Ages - and it would still be in the future, and the Rapture could not occur until it comes! That does not fit God's revealed plan for earth and mankind.

To me, "The Departure" of 2 Thess 2:3 is the exact opposite of "falling away" from God’s truth. This is in a context of the "Rapture of the Church", the "day of Christ", the Day when Jesus will return, in the air, below the highest mountain top, and catch the Church (all the born again Christians in the world) up into the air, and take them to the Third Heaven.

In 2 Thess 2:5, Paul says don’t you remember when I was with you I taught you about these things? - and the subject of Paul's First Letter is "The Departure of the Church", from this earth to the third heaven.









 

Batman

Well-Known Member
Both will happen as we close in on the 7 year trib so perhaps being dogmatic on this either way is kind of a waste of time and energy. We are and will continue to see the world go deeper and deeper into the "perilous times" Timothy and others described but we will also see a catching away of the Bride of Christ.
 

usoutpost31

Well-Known Member
In 2 Thess 2:5, Paul says don’t you remember when I was with you I taught you about these things?










To me that says Paul is referring to further information he taught them in person.

Jesus predicted a falling away from the truth as well (Matt 24:10). Yes, false teaching and apostasy has always been around, but so have earthquakes, famines, disease and persecution, and deception yet Jesus cited all these things as specific road markers just before his return. He evidently expected us to recognize these things as opposed to dismissing them as the "same old, same old".

A great apostasy from the truth in the last days makes perfect sense when viewed in the light of 2 Timothy 3:1-5 and other passages that describe spiritual conditions just before the end.
 

Accepted

Well-Known Member
My thinking is that it does mean both a departure from the truth, and our departure from the earth. Otherwise, ‘harpazo’ would have been used, as specifically referring to our departure alone. The fact that apostasia means more than one thing, depending on context, points to this, in my opinion.
 

Ohioan

Well-Known Member
Does it have to be one meaning?
There is a place in the Bible where one departure does cause the departure from the other, that is the departure of the church causes the complete departure from the truth.

That picture is given in Micah 7

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Micah-Chapter-7/

Micah 7:2



“The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.”

King James Version (KJV)



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Micah 7:2 Context

1Woe is me! for I am as when they have gathered the summer fruits, as the grapegleanings of the vintage: there is no cluster to eat: my soul desired the firstripe fruit. 2The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net. 3That they may do evil with both hands earnestly, the prince asketh, and the judge asketh for a reward; and the great man, he uttereth his mischievous desire: so they wrap it up. 4The best of them is as a brier: the most upright is sharper than a thorn hedge: the day of thy watchmen and thy visitation cometh; now shall be their perplexity. 5Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.
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Ohioan

Well-Known Member
At what period of time makes this part of Daniel come to pass?

King James Bible Daniel 8:23
And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

Does not Micah 7 answer that question, the departure has happened and every man on earth is evil, it is at this time shall the man of lawlessness come forth

The context of Micah 7 is as Matthew 10 and pictures the tribulation period,

Matthew 10:35



“For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.”

King James Version (KJV)



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Matthew 10:35 Context

32Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. 34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
 

townerka

Well-Known Member
There is a place in the Bible where one departure does cause the departure from the other, that is the departure of the church causes the complete departure from the truth.

That picture is given in Micah 7

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Micah-Chapter-7/

Micah 7:2



“The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.”

King James Version (KJV)



< Previous Verse
Next Verse >
▲ View Chapter


Micah 7:2 Context

1Woe is me! for I am as when they have gathered the summer fruits, as the grapegleanings of the vintage: there is no cluster to eat: my soul desired the firstripe fruit. 2The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net. 3That they may do evil with both hands earnestly, the prince asketh, and the judge asketh for a reward; and the great man, he uttereth his mischievous desire: so they wrap it up. 4The best of them is as a brier: the most upright is sharper than a thorn hedge: the day of thy watchmen and thy visitation cometh; now shall be their perplexity. 5Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.
▲ View Chapter

The hebrew word for perish - abad - can also mean vanish.
 

Jeri minton

Well-Known Member
Yes, Andy Woods does have a great teaching video on apostasia as used in physical departure....I always looked at the word as meaning falling away from the faith, but that is because I was taught that meaning in church.. Andy makes such a good case for it meaning physical departure, that Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum now believes it means physical departure....he corrected his view by making an edit to his great book, Footsteps of the Messiah. A lot of people made excellent points here...as for me, I know there is going to be a physical departure, however I understand it and I'm hoping for it to happen very soon..
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Yes, Andy Woods does have a great teaching video on apostasia as used in physical departure....I always looked at the word as meaning falling away from the faith, but that is because I was taught that meaning in church.. Andy makes such a good case for it meaning physical departure, that Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum now believes it means physical departure....he corrected his view by making an edit to his great book, Footsteps of the Messiah. A lot of people made excellent points here...as for me, I know there is going to be a physical departure, however I understand it and I'm hoping for it to happen very soon..
You know Andy Woods has good discernment when his comments through study of the Word can cause Arnold Fruchetnbaum to change his own remarks.

The book, Footsteps of the Messiah is a must for any solid study on end times. I refer back to this book more than any other book besides the bible when studying end times.
 

Eric Nicholas

Well-Known Member
You know Andy Woods has good discernment when his comments through study of the Word can cause Arnold Fruchetnbaum to change his own remarks.

The book, Footsteps of the Messiah is a must for any solid study on end times. I refer back to this book more than any other book besides the bible when studying end times.
I'm definitely going to check that out. Thanks for the recommendation, sir.
 
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