Apocalypse some other time: 5 things to know for June 30

Almost Heaven

Well-Known Member
1. Give ’em something to talk about: With a day to go until Israel is supposedly set to start annexing West Bank lands, there is a palpable sense of apathy, though not inevitability. In fact, press reports in Hebrew are filled with stories angled toward half-measures taking place that could at least delay the move and keep a lid on expectations of a full annexation of 30 percent of the West Bank.

  • AFP reports that the Palestinians have offered to resume direct negotiations with Israel and to agree to “minor” territorial concessions, in exchange for Jerusalem scotching its annexation plans.
  • “No one has as much interest as the Palestinians in reaching a peace agreement and no one has as much to lose as the Palestinians in the absence of peace,” says a four-page letter to the Quartet of the United Nations, United States, Russia, and the European Union seen by the news wire service.
  • A number of outlets note that the letter is not new and has been mentioned before in the context of a vague counterproposal the Palestinians said they sent the Quartet earlier this month, although the PA’s readiness to resume direct talks with Israel was not reported at the time.
  • “This is Palestinian spin, the letter was sent weeks ago ” Channel 13 reporter Barak Ravid tells Radio103. “Palestinian leaders say that they’ve never been so sought-after. The attempt is to get the Palestinians talking with the Americans, because the moment that happens — there’s no annexation.”
  • Ravid also tells the station he does not think any annexation will actually go ahead on Wednesday: “Maybe Netanyahu will say something, but there won’t be any government decision.”
  • Notably, a New York Times piece on annexation last week noted that Jared Kushner saw annexation as a stick intended to push the Palestinians to the table, indicating it might have somewhat worked. Tellingly, the US has yet to indicate, publicly at least, whether it will back Israel’s annexation moves.
  • Former US ambassador Dan Shapiro tells Army Radio that “Trump has not decided if he wants to advance his interests with annexing Judea and Samaria, or perhaps he will decide that it will cause too much trouble in a sensitive political time.”
2. No joy in annexationville: Even Israel Hayom desists somewhat from its gung-ho cheerleading of annexation, possibly reading the way the winds are blowing. Its front page leads off with coronavirus-related coverage and instead features a smaller headline lazily quoting Communications Minister Yoaz Hendel saying annexation cannot wait until after the coronavirus is dealt with.

  • The quote is set up as a counterpoint to Defense Minister Benny Gantz saying a day earlier that annexation should in fact wait and that July 1 is not a sacred date and anything unrelated to the coronavirus can take a backseat.
  • In a column for the paper, Nadav Sharagi admits that annexation of the full 30 percent of the West Bank under the Trump plan is not in the cards and urges the government to at least start off by annexing the Jordan Valley, and not the settlement blocs that many believe will in fact be the first.
  • “Israel should start by extending sovereignty to the Jordan Valley first and shelve the plan to do the same with respect to the large settlement blocs. The reason for this is simple: The greater Jerusalem area, Maaleh Adumim, Gush Etzion and Ariel will all eventually come under Israeli sovereignty – there’s a public consensus about that, one even the international community understands, albeit it will never publicly admit it.”
  • (The argument echoes a report in the paper earlier this month that indicated Netanyahu was looking to do just that, or to start with isolated settlements. No other reliable reports on such an idea have emerged.)
  • Minister Zeev Elkin tells Army Radio that “anyone who planned for everything happening on one day on July 1, that’s on them. From tomorrow, the clock starts.”
3. Just can’t wait: Kan reports that Netanyahu said pretty much the same thing in his Monday Likud faction meeting, perhaps indicating why Israel Hayom had to resort to Hendel as its pro-annexation pony. (No offense to Hendel, but he’s not exactly setting government policy.

  • “This is a complicated process with lots of diplomatic and security considerations that I can’t get into. We said that [annexation] would be after July 1,” Netanyahu is quoted saying.
  • On Tuesday morning though, Netanyahu tells the US Iran sanctions czar Brian Hook that “we have serious issues to discuss. They are so serious that they can’t even wait for COVID-19 and I appreciate your making the visit to Israel today.” While the comments are ostensibly about Iran, many in the Hebrew press recognize them as a veiled pushback against Gantz.
  • “Netanyahu answers Gantz,” reads a Kan headline above the quote.
  • Army Radio calls it a “stinging message” to Gantz.
4. Killing annexation softly: Gantz, who is trying to position himself as something of an opposition leader within the government, continues to push back Tuesday, telling Ynet that “a million people don’t know what [the government] is talking about now,” which the outlet interprets to mean that “they are not interested in annexation,” as its headline puts it.

  • However he also backs annexation as a concept, admits that the issue is pretty much out of his hands, and calls new elections (the likely result of his party not supporting annexation) “a disaster.”
  • Analyst Shimrit Meir writes on Twitter that she got dizzy from trying to follow Gantz’s acrobatics, but thinks she’s figured out that “he’s killing [annexation] softly in a consistent way. Now it’s just money time.”
  • Egypt’s attempts to stop annexation have also been halfhearted at best, notes ToI’s Aaron Boxerman, with the country’s leadership not wanting to risk its ties with the US over the Palestinian issue.
  • “There are far more substantial crises facing Egypt today: the coronavirus crisis and its attendant economic consequences, Turkish military intervention on Egypt’s longest border, the Ethiopian Renaissance Dam. All of these crises take priority over annexation,” analyst Ofer Winter tells him.
  • NPR’s Daniel Estrin reports that many Israelis and Palestinians are similarly unmoved by the annexation plan. One settler shopping at a Palestinian store tells him that “annexation doesn’t matter to me. I’m not for or against. It’s all political games.”
  • The grocer, with much more to lose, echoes him. “He’s like many Palestinians fed up with their leaders who long promised a Palestinian state in the West Bank. He’s watched settlements grow and believes annexation is inevitable. He doesn’t think it would change anything if he protested or threw a stone. He says he’s just trying to make ends meet, and he vows to never leave his home,” says Estrin.
5. Anything but coronavirus: Speaking to Kan, Minister of Nothing Tzachi Hanegbi says Gantz’s claim that the emergency coronavirus government formed to deal with the coronavirus should in fact only deal with the coronavirus is absurd: “99 percent of what we do is unrelated to the coronavirus.”

  • Hey Tzachi, we’ve noticed. Quoth the lead editorial in Haaretz: “It would behoove this government to remember that it was formed primarily to battle the coronavirus. Netanyahu, however, has preferred to devote most of his effort to his personal concerns: his legal battles, political threats, annexation fantasies and seeing to his own bank account at taxpayers’ expense. Instead of creating a single agency to deal with the coronavirus, Netanyahu is taking hysterical and confused steps to try to halt the economic and health avalanches. That’s no way to run a country during a crisis.”
  • As if to punctuate the editorial, the Health Ministry on Tuesday reports 714 new infections over the last day, the highest total since the start of April, a day after the government reacted to the rising numbers by announcing that attendance at some events will be capped at 100 people, which seems kind of like bringing a toothpick to a gunfight.
  • The figure is the sixth highest 24-hour toll since the start of the pandemic, according to my own tally, just over 100 cases shy of the record 819 cases found on April 2-3.
  • Channel 12 news reports that the city of Ramle saw more infections in June than it did in March and April.
  • “We haven’t lost control” of the situation, Health Ministry Director Chezy Levy tells Army Radio. “The semantics over whether there’s a ‘second wave’ isn’t useful. The virus is with us” for the foreseeable future, he adds.
  • There’s always the clink. ToI’s Sam Sokol writes that the only place that seems to have avoided the worst of the virus is the prison system, where unlike other countries, Israel has somehow managed to protect its domestic convict population.
  • “Interrogations were conducted inside of prisons rather than at police stations, judicial hearings were held over teleconference and family visits were restricted to five-minute Zoom calls. Guards, who would usually pull 24-hour shifts followed by two days off, were suddenly doing one week on, two weeks off, during which time they monitored themselves for coronavirus symptoms. New inmates would be held in quarantine for two weeks before being allowed to mix with the general prison population,” he writes.
  • Col. Regev Daharuge, head of the Prison Service Inmate Department, tells him that the approach, which also included having inmates eat alone in their cells, was the only way possible to keep the virus at bay.
  • “If you think that social distancing in a [prison] wing is possible, you don’t know prison,” he says. “There’s no way that we can enforce it.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/apocalypse-some-other-time-5-things-to-know-for-june-30/
 

Almost Heaven

Well-Known Member
This is too much for my pea brain to process...what is your opinion on this annexation?
Oh Andi, you don't have pea brain. They are lost of moving parts to this mess and many possible scenarios. I'll give you a couple of scenarios from and Israeli political viewpoint. I think @athenasius has give good notes on the spiritual side of things on another thread.

The Annexation will not go forward as planned, but it will go forward.

The Unity government between Blue and White/Gantz and Likud/Netanyahu is starting to crack. Annexation will be tough for Netanyahu to pull off alone, bu dealing with Gantz is making it even worse. Gantz has been offered the Presidency of Israel if he gives up his turn as PM in the Unity governments rotation deal. The Likud is gaining lots of ground politically and Blue and White is losing a big amount of support. Netanyahu is eyeing dissolving the Unity government and going to elections again. That wont' be popular, but it may work. Its looking like he may finally have enough support to form a coalition without a Unity deal. It looks like he may slow roll annexation and figure out how to dump Gantz before going for full annexation.

Here is another political mess. There is not support for annexation from anyone, not on the surface anyway. The US is not supporting it unless Gantz and Ashkenizi give their full support, that won't happen. Europe and the UN are making the usual threats (who cares), Jordan and the Gulf Arabs are vocalizing dissent, but...Saudi Arabia has been negotiating with Jordan to take over management of the Temple Mount, taking it away from the Waqf. Is this a possible bargaining chip, to give Israel some part of the TM to give up annexation? :idunno

Then just today, the Palestinians are making noises like they are finally going to return to the negotiating table. Now we all know this is just a ploy, but Netanyahu should not carry forward with annexation when the Pals are indicating they are ready to come to the table. That would really upset the ME apple cart and gain nothing. The US peace plan was designed to get the Pals back to the table and since that appears, to be working the annexation will have to wait until Abu Mazen show his true colors once again.
 
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MapleLeaf

Well-Known Member
This isn’t happening in our lifetime. Or at least not for quite some time. Israel is the key to all prophecy and that key isn’t turning. We are going to be here to watch the fall of the west and see plandemic after plandemic until they find the true killer. Well, the true killer will probably be the Tribulation one and we won’t be here for that. But the real next Spanish Flu or Black Death (or is that term racist now, lol).

Maybe God has another Trump 2016 or Brexit up His sleeve to get things going. Maybe the murder hornets need to head to the Middle East.
 

Andiamo

"Let's go!"
Oh Andi, you don't have pea brain. They are lost of moving parts to this mess and many possible scenarios. I'll give you a couple of scenarios from and Israeli political viewpoint. I think @athenasius has give good notes on the spiritual side of things on another thread.

The Annexation will not go forward as planned, but it will go forward.

The Unity government between Blue and White/Gantz and Likud/Netanyahu is starting to crack. Annexation will be tough for Netanyahu to pull off alone, bu dealing with Gantz is making it even worse. Gantz has been offered the Presidency of Israel if he gives up his turn as PM in the Unity governments rotation deal. The Likud is gaining lots of ground politically and Blue and White is losing a big amount of support. Netanyahu is eyeing dissolving the Unity government and going to elections again. That wont' be popular, but it may work. Its looking like he may finally have enough support to form a coalition without a Unity deal. It looks like he may slow roll annexation and figure out how to dump Gantz before going for full annexation.

Here is another political mess. There is not support for annexation from anyone, not on the surface anyway. The US is not supporting it unless Gantz and Ashkenizi give their full support, that won't happen. Europe and the UN are making the usual threats (who cares), Jordan and the Gulf Arabs are vocalizing dissent, but...Saudi Arabia has been negotiating with Jordan to take over management of the Temple Mount, taking it away from the Waqf. Is this a possible bargaining chip, to give Israel some part of the TM to give up annexation? :idunno

Then just today, the Palestinians are making noises like they are finally going to return to the negotiating table. Now we all know this is just a ploy, but Netanyahu should not carry forward with annexation when the Pals are indicating they are ready to come to the table. That would really upset the ME apple cart and gain nothing. The US peace plan was designed to get the Pals back to the table and since that appears, to be working the annexation will have to wait until Abu Mazen show his true colors once again.
Thanks for this. I think Gantz may end up being the president soon, one way or the other, because he said that if he is (prime minister) he will accept the Trump peace deal as is, in full. That raised my eyebrows. Not that the world would be behind him, but I'm pretty convinced that deal is the fail/framework for the "made greater" 7 year AC peace treaty. So as fast as this snowball seems to be rolling along, I think Gantz will be Pres soon and Bibi will be out of the picture.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/gantz...lan-immediately-if-he-becomes-prime-minister/
 
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daygo

Well-Known Member
Thanks for this. I think Gantz may end up being the president soon, one way or the other, because he said that if he is president he will accept the Trump peace deal as is, in full. That raised my eyebrows. Not that the world would be behind him, but I'm pretty convinced that deal is the fail/framework for the "made greater" 7 year AC peace treaty. So as fast as this snowball seems to be rolling along, I think Gantz will be Pres soon and Bibi will be out of the picture.
I have my reservations about gantz but it may speed up bible prophecy imo.
 

Rome36863

Well-Known Member
If Israel is still pandering to the US, the annex may not happen. But, if it does not happen soon, they are going to lose their support from the US as we head towards the disaster known as the November elections. The next six months should be interesting.
 

MapleLeaf

Well-Known Member
I still personally think that the "unwalled villages" referred to in Ezekiel 38 could mean an Israel left defenseless rather than at peace. Often a country at peace has a good defense. It protects itself. Switzerland's neutrality has been respected for a reason, for instance. In the Old Testament days, a town built without walls would have been considered irresponsible and poor leadership.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
I still personally think that the "unwalled villages" referred to in Ezekiel 38 could mean an Israel left defenseless rather than at peace. Often a country at peace has a good defense. It protects itself. Switzerland's neutrality has been respected for a reason, for instance. In the Old Testament days, a town built without walls would have been considered irresponsible and poor leadership.
You could be right.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
This is too much for my pea brain to process...what is your opinion on this annexation?
Andi you are not a pea brain, as AH said..

This is at least 4 extra strong coffees and perhaps more to unpack all of that. A few days, more coffee-- even then.

They are lots of moving parts to this mess and many possible scenarios.
As usual when Israelis break it down into 5 simple topics-- there are multiple angles in each-- anything but simple. Befitting a people that God seems to have given extra brains to, who play 3 D chess while the rest of us are playing chequers.

Netanyahu is eyeing dissolving the Unity government and going to elections again. That wont' be popular, but it may work. Its looking like he may finally have enough support to form a coalition without a Unity deal. It looks like he may slow roll annexation and figure out how to dump Gantz before going for full annexation.
YUP! Gantz seems to be losing against Netanyahu as this coalition drags on. At some point Bibi is going for the prize and try to eliminate Gantz altogether. Bibi is a cagey old politico and Gantz is just not up to his level.

Bibi may also realize that bad things happen to Israeli leaders who sign away land to the Palestinians. And he may be playing for time.

As for the American elections, it wouldn't be wise for anyone to count on Trump's re election no matter how sure they are.

Israel can only count on the deal on the table as it sits, and the weakening resolve of the Americans as Trump looks ahead to elections. His focus is America as it should be.

So at some point, Israel realizes they will take the deal or not, but it won't stay on the table forever. If Trump loses this election, the deal is gone.

Even if Trump WINS the November election, the longer this drags on, the more holes the EU, the Vatican, the Muslim world will pick in it. The harder it will get. And the less attention Trump can give to protection of Israel, diplomatically or otherwise.

BUT

Biblically nobody should have anything to do with this deal. And Israel should simply act without anyone's permission anywhere. It is their land. Easy for me to say sitting all safe in Canada. They have to live with their bloodthirsty neighbours who take turns trying to murder them.

Looking back to Jeremiah-- they thought Egypt would help, against Babylon. But no. They put their trust in Egypt and ended up weeping by the waters of Babylon as they remembered Zion.

This negotiating with the world for their own territory will be repeated again with the Antichrist. They'll sign on with him. It will be the last time they trust another human being with their safety.
 
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