Another End Times question:

[Jonathan]

In addition to my previous question, I have yet another. There are a number of souls I have come across on the internet (few in number, but no doubt representing a very large number of kindred souls) who say that the events in Revelation have already happened centuries ago,

Since there is very little potential "profit" (financially and socially) in this view, I can only assume they are extremely serious.

So, if they see Revelation as having already occurred, how do they account for ANY (but a few) of the incredible events in John's (JESUS's) Revelation that have obviously not happened yet? And I am not talking strong theological points. I am talking about the obvious literal prophecies.

If you think Revelation is a bunch of bunk, I will disagree with you, pray for you, and honestly understand where you are coming from. I get it. I really do.

But to accept Revelation as fact and a scripture inspired by God, how on earth can you think those events already happened?

BTW, I am not looking for an echo chamber here (although a few "You aren't crazy Jonathan, at least not more than usual would be welcome). I really want to know their train of thought and how they have come to their conclusion.

 

[MePlus6]

In addition to my previous question, I have yet another. There are a number of souls I have come across on the internet (few in number, but no doubt representing a very large number of kindred souls) who say that the events in Revelation have already happened centuries ago,

Since there is very little potential "profit" (financially and socially) in this view, I can only assume they are extremely serious.

So, if they see Revelation as having already occurred, how do they account for ANY (but a few) of the incredible events in John's (JESUS's) Revelation that have obviously not happened yet? And I am not talking strong theological points. I am talking about the obvious literal prophecies.

If you think Revelation is a bunch of bunk, I will disagree with you, pray for you, and honestly understand where you are coming from. I get it. I really do.

But to accept Revelation as fact and a scripture inspired by God, how on earth can you think those events already happened?

BTW, I am not looking for an echo chamber here (although a few "You aren't crazy Jonathan, at least not more than usual would be welcome). I really want to know their train of thought and how they have come to their conclusion.

They allegorize it. To them, the events aren’t literal but representative.

 

[Matthew6:33]

They allegorize it.

100% - they don't interpret the bible literally. This is the false doctrine of preterism. They believe it all happened in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. They point to exta-biblical texts such as the Jewish historian Josephus and his writings about the massive amounts of death and destruction at this battle. Also the disease and hunger that took place. Some of the details are very horrific as this event was a judgement on the Jewish people for rejecting Christ. However their eschatology is all wrong which add to their confusion. A lot also believe in the false doctrine of replacement theology - that the church has taken the place of Israel.

They pick and choose what they want to take literal or allegorize/spiritualize in the scripture. A preterist I used to be close with was a very smart older man and he said one of the main reasons for his belief was that "nonbelievers look at you like you are nuts" when you talk to them about prophesy so it makes a stronger case for the gospel if you can say these things were already fulfilled. RC Sproul was a big preterist.

 

[Andy C]

As Matthew6:33 posted, that is a preterism view, completely false

What is the preterist view of the end times?​

According to preterism, all prophecy in the Bible is really history. The preterist interpretation of Scripture regards the book of Revelation as a symbolic picture of first-century conflicts, not a description of what will occur in the end times. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, meaning “past.” Thus, preterism is the view that the biblical prophecies concerning the “end times” have already been fulfilled—in the past. Preterism is directly opposed to futurism, which sees the end-times prophecies as having a still-future fulfillment.

Preterism is divided into two types: full (or consistent) preterism and partial preterism. This article will confine the discussion to full preterism (or hyper-preterism, as some call it).

Preterism denies the future prophetic quality of the book of Revelation. The preterist movement essentially teaches that all the end-times prophecies of the New Testament were fulfilled in AD 70 when the Romans attacked and destroyed Jerusalem. Preterism teaches that every event normally associated with the end times—Christ’s second coming, the tribulation, the resurrection of the dead, the final judgment—has already happened. (In the case of the final judgment, it still is in the process of being fulfilled.) Jesus’ return to earth was a “spiritual” return, not a physical one.

Preterism teaches that the Law was fulfilled in AD 70 and God’s covenant with Israel was ended. The “new heavens and new earth” spoken of in Revelation 21:1 is, to the preterist, a description of the world under the New Covenant. Just as a Christian is made a “new creation” (2 Corinthians 5:17), so the world under the New Covenant is a “new earth.” This aspect of preterism can easily lead to a belief in replacement theology.

Preterists usually point to a passage in Jesus’ Olivet Discourse to bolster their argument. After Jesus describes some of the end-times happenings, He says, “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened” (Matthew 24:34). The preterist takes this to mean that everything Jesus speaks of in Matthew 24 had to have occurred within one generation of His speaking—the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 was therefore “Judgment Day.”

The problems with preterism are many. For one thing, God’s covenant with Israel is everlasting (Jeremiah 31:33–36), and there will be a future restoration of Israel (Isaiah 11:12). The apostle Paul warned against those who, like Hymenaeus and Philetus, teach falsely “that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some” (2 Timothy 2:17–18). And Jesus’ mention of “this generation” should be taken to mean the generation that is alive to see the beginning of the events described in Matthew 24.

Eschatology is a complex subject, and the Bible’s use of apocalyptic imagery to relate many prophecies has led to a variety of interpretations of end-time events. There is room for some disagreement within Christianity regarding these things. However, full preterism has some serious flaws in that it denies the physical reality of Christ’s second coming and downplays the dreadful nature of the tribulation by restricting that event to the fall of Jerusalem.

https://www.gotquestions.org/preterist.html

 

[Jonathan]

As Matthew6:33 posted, that is a preterism view, completely false

What is the preterist view of the end times?​

According to preterism, all prophecy in the Bible is really history. The preterist interpretation of Scripture regards the book of Revelation as a symbolic picture of first-century conflicts, not a description of what will occur in the end times. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, meaning “past.” Thus, preterism is the view that the biblical prophecies concerning the “end times” have already been fulfilled—in the past. Preterism is directly opposed to futurism, which sees the end-times prophecies as having a still-future fulfillment.

Preterism is divided into two types: full (or consistent) preterism and partial preterism. This article will confine the discussion to full preterism (or hyper-preterism, as some call it).

Preterism denies the future prophetic quality of the book of Revelation. The preterist movement essentially teaches that all the end-times prophecies of the New Testament were fulfilled in AD 70 when the Romans attacked and destroyed Jerusalem. Preterism teaches that every event normally associated with the end times—Christ’s second coming, the tribulation, the resurrection of the dead, the final judgment—has already happened. (In the case of the final judgment, it still is in the process of being fulfilled.) Jesus’ return to earth was a “spiritual” return, not a physical one.

Preterism teaches that the Law was fulfilled in AD 70 and God’s covenant with Israel was ended. The “new heavens and new earth” spoken of in Revelation 21:1 is, to the preterist, a description of the world under the New Covenant. Just as a Christian is made a “new creation” (2 Corinthians 5:17), so the world under the New Covenant is a “new earth.” This aspect of preterism can easily lead to a belief in replacement theology.

Preterists usually point to a passage in Jesus’ Olivet Discourse to bolster their argument. After Jesus describes some of the end-times happenings, He says, “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened” (Matthew 24:34). The preterist takes this to mean that everything Jesus speaks of in Matthew 24 had to have occurred within one generation of His speaking—the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 was therefore “Judgment Day.”

The problems with preterism are many. For one thing, God’s covenant with Israel is everlasting (Jeremiah 31:33–36), and there will be a future restoration of Israel (Isaiah 11:12). The apostle Paul warned against those who, like Hymenaeus and Philetus, teach falsely “that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some” (2 Timothy 2:17–18). And Jesus’ mention of “this generation” should be taken to mean the generation that is alive to see the beginning of the events described in Matthew 24.

Eschatology is a complex subject, and the Bible’s use of apocalyptic imagery to relate many prophecies has led to a variety of interpretations of end-time events. There is room for some disagreement within Christianity regarding these things. However, full preterism has some serious flaws in that it denies the physical reality of Christ’s second coming and downplays the dreadful nature of the tribulation by restricting that event to the fall of Jerusalem.

https://www.gotquestions.org/preterist.html

Bookmarked brother. Thanks.

 

[paul289]

The profit for them is that they don't believe Jesus is coming back, so they don't have to be on watch for his coming. This allows them to either invest in their present lives on earth rather than heaven, or pursue some other religious aims, such as the New Apostolic Reformation, who seek to create the Kingdom of God on this earth. Others likely believe that purity comes through struggle, rather than through Jesus' sacrifice, and so they want to live in a fallen world so that they can purify themselves, like a sort of purgatory.

 

[Eastxn]

Daniel 9:24 should end all arguments and make preterists realize their error

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Look around and ask yourself,

Is the transgression finished? No

Has sin ended? No

Is there everlasting righteousness right now? No

Well then it seems pretty clear that Daniel's 70th week hasn't happened yet. It can't get any plainer than that. Why they can't see this is beyond me.