Another challenge.

TheOvercomers

Well-Known Member
And even if the sacrificial system were to be reinstituted, it would avail the Jew nothing since "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins."

Does this help?

This same question is basically being brought out in another great thread.

Wondering how you see sacrifices being done in Jesus's Millennial Kingdom? Notice the reference to blood: Malachi 3:3-4; Isaiah 56:6-8; Jeremiah 33:15-18; Ezekiel 43:18-46:24.



Yet personally, I cannot say that they would avail the Jew nothing as these scriptures come to mind. Isa 2:2-4, Ezek 36:27, Ezek 37:24, Ezek 43:27

I think and agree that the sacrifices done in Christ's Millennial Kingdom shall be done for a memorial of the great sacrifice of THE LAMB of God, who gave himself for the sins of the whole world. Yet I cannot help but wonder...

What about those who will be born during the Millennial age? I mean, even though our Lord Himself shall be walking the face of the earth in those days, what would happen when somebody does indeed commit sin (Isa 65:20)? Could somehow the sacrifices in the Millennial temple be applied to them? For then what would the need be for priests, but for to keep the ordinances of the house? I mean, wont the Spirit have been poured out upon them as he has done with us, enabling them at that time to keep his laws and enjoying the benefits of them as he had promised unto them?

I think that the Law shall be in full effect for those nations entering the Millennial reign of Christ, for what better rod than to smite the nations than that of his holy Law?

I also think that even though the first Covenant was disannulled, the Law, has not been completely done away with (Matt 5:18).

P.S. As a side note, I like to think that the New Covenant was established at our Lord's most intimate moment with his disciples (all jews and therefore TRUE ISRAEL), which was the Last Supper (Matt 26:28). I'm so thankful to God that we are able to partake in this Covenant. Blessed be the Name of the Lord.

Oh Israel, Israel, can't you SEE:crying?...There is a fountain...Hallelujah!
 

iSong6:3

Well-Known Member
TheOvercomers - Dear one, before Adrian answers, I just wanted to say two things very briefly:

I do not believe the blood of animals in the MK will cover sin. Jesus already shed His blood for sin, there is nothing else. Hebrews 10:29 comes to mind. (I know you're not disputing that in the least. :hug)

I also don't believe that the MK will be under the Mosaic Law. I believe we see in the Temple service (including the sacrifices) and observing the Feast of Tabernacles, new moons and the Sabbath, for example, that there will be some aspects carried over, but certainly not all. The Gentiles, under Mosaic forbidden to enter the Temple, will then be able to. We know God has declared all foods clean. And so forth. The MK will see something new - Kingdom Law. Specifically what that entails we don't know yet. I know we can't wait to see it though!
 

TheOvercomers

Well-Known Member
TheOvercomers - Dear one, before Adrian answers, I just wanted to say two things very briefly:

I do not believe the blood of animals in the MK will cover sin. Jesus already shed His blood for sin, there is nothing else. Hebrews 10:29 comes to mind. (I know you're not disputing that in the least. :hug)
Not at all sister.

I also don't believe that the MK will be under the Mosaic Law. I believe we see in the Temple service (including the sacrifices) and observing the Feast of Tabernacles, new moons and the Sabbath, for example, that there will be some aspects carried over, but certainly not all. The Gentiles, under Mosaic Law forbidden to enter the Temple, will then be able to. We know God has declared all foods clean. And so forth. The MK will see something new - Kingdom Law. Specifically what that entails we don't know yet. I know we can't wait to see it though!

Agreed...

My reference to the Law is specifically to the 10 Commandments, and not to the old sacrificial system which cannot take away sin but as pastor Adrian says, "temporarily covered it", that is till the sacrificial death of Our Saviour, which was done "ONCE FOR ALL".

I hope this clarifies what I was trying to say, and thank you for pointing that out.

God Bless.
 
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iSong6:3

Well-Known Member
Not at all sister.



Agreed...

My reference to the Law is specifically to the 10 Commandments, and not to the old sacrificial system which cannot take away sin but as pastor Adrian says, "temporarily covered it", that is till the sacrificial death of Our Saviour, which was done "ONCE FOR ALL".

I hope this clarifies what I was trying to say, and thank you for pointing that out.

God Bless.

Thank you. :hat The only thing I wasn't clear on was what you meant by "law."

I wanted above to clear up my own views to avoid misunderstanding as well. :thumbup
 

Hadassah

Philippians 3:14
No. The First Covenant. the covenant of law, was fulfilled by Christ (Romans 10:4) -- only God being able to do that since experience proved that man could never live up to its demands as scripture confirms (Psalm 14:3; Proverbs 20:9; Romans 3:10,23). And since Christ fulfilled the law's demands under the Old Covenant (Hebrews 9:15) He ushered in the New Covenant and all who are "in Christ" receive its benefits (Ephesians 1:7-14) -- chiefly freedom from the penalty of sin (Hebrews 9:26b) and, thus, consequent right standing with God (Hebrew 5:21; 8:30,33). But those who reject Christ cannot enter the New Covenant and thus must live by the law of the Old Covenant. However this leaves them doomed for three reasons. First this first Covenant has been set aside (Hebrews 7:18; 8:13); second the Holy Spirit fully demonstrated in the New Testament that the law could never be fulfilled by man for the law only gave consciousness of sin (Romans 7:5-11); and third, the Holy Spirit permitted the destruction of the Temple and the end of all animal sacrifices. Now, animal sacrifices could never take away a man's sin (Hebrews 10:4)-- only temporarily cover it. But because of the ending of the sacrificial system, a Jew cannot even have his sin temporarily covered. Therefore a Jew who rejects Christ's sacrifice on his behalf is counted by God the same as a Gentile who does the same thing (Romans 3:9), regardless of how hard the Jew tries to keep the commandments. And even if the sacrificial system were to be reinstituted, it would avail the Jew nothing since "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins."

Does this help?

I should have put a question mark at the end of my statement, but thank you for picking up on that and clarifying. :hat:

I think I understand what you said, but I was trying to say was that to them, the Jews who are continuing in their unbelief, who are trying to keep the Law, some who eventually will be making animal sacrifices, these think they are still "keeping" the old covenant. They either haven't read the New Testament and don't know about the New Covenant, or via other Jews who don't believe in Jesus, they have rejected the N.T. as false. So to them, the O.T. is still, in their minds, a valid, living covenant with God, not superseded.

I don't understand how Jews today can think they are saved and going to heaven because they aren't sacrificing animals right now. They must have some answer for that or they'd have no peace in their minds.

Obviously, despite my user name, I'm not Jewish. :fish:
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
My reference to the Law is specifically to the 10 Commandments, and not to the old sacrificial system which cannot take away sin but as pastor Adrian says, "temporarily covered it", that is till the sacrificial death of Our Saviour, which was done "ONCE FOR ALL".

According to what I've read concerning Hebrew tradition and biblical scholarship... the "Ten commandments" are part of the Mosaic Covenant... They can't be separated out. I think It'll be a brand new Law in the Millennial Kingdom, otherwise the New Covenant that ended the Mosaic Covenant will have been annulled (make sense?). That would be contrary to the biblical pattern we see through-out history.

It's already been established that the references from Ezekiel are different than the Mosaic system... This suggests a another brand new dispensation, not a return to the old.

Kind regards,
Dave
 

TheOvercomers

Well-Known Member
According to what I've read concerning Hebrew tradition and biblical scholarship... the "Ten commandments" are part of the Mosaic Covenant... They can't be separated out. I think It'll be a brand new Law in the Millennial Kingdom, otherwise the New Covenant that ended the Mosaic Covenant will have been annulled (make sense?). That would be contrary to the biblical pattern we see through-out history.

It's already been established that the references from Ezekiel are different than the Mosaic system... This suggests a another brand new dispensation, not a return to the old.

Kind regards,
Dave

I see what you are saying brother, and it could be as you said. What also came to my mind, is that if at the end of the Millennium, when Satan is released to once again deceive the nations of the world, I cannot help but think of why o why would people actually believe a lie after 1000 years of total peace and prosperity. To me this implies that during the millennium there will be as many professors as there will be posessors, sort of like the way things are today. Could God then not perhaps use the 10 Commandments to keep sinners in check, to sort of say?

After all, it is his Law, and He gave it unto them, which at least in my eyes, is expected to be kept (which apart from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, it would be an impossibility).

I really don't know, but it has been indeed very illuminating topic.

God bless.
 

TheOvercomers

Well-Known Member
But now that I really think about it, pastor Adrian is absolutely right, Christ is the end of the law to every one that believeth, for He did indeed keep the whole law for us, fulfilling its demands.

But what about for those who believe not. Shall they not be judged according to the law, according to their works?

God Bless.
 

iSong6:3

Well-Known Member
Rats!

The link to the Theocratic Kingdom by Peters didn't work... There's another link I found, but it takes an age to load.

You can get it on Amazon for $111. :willy:

The Frucht's two "Israelology" links on this page don't work either, but they do on another of the pages. Not to be missed. I know Dave agrees. :thumbup
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
I see what you are saying brother, and it could be as you said. What also came to my mind, is that if at the end of the Millennium, when Satan is released to once again deceive the nations of the world, I cannot help but think of why o why would people actually believe a lie after 1000 years of total peace and prosperity. To me this implies that during the millennium there will be as many professors as there will be posessors, sort of like the way things are today. Could God then not perhaps use the 10 Commandments to keep sinners in check, to sort of say?

After all, it is his Law, and He gave it unto them, which at least in my eyes, is expected to be kept (which apart from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, it would be an impossibility).

I really don't know, but it has been indeed very illuminating topic.

God bless.

My understanding...

Even now we're not Lawless... We're just not under the other Law. It had a specific purpose, as will any structure or Law in the MK. The Laws may be similar, just as some of the Laws of Christ/freedom are similar to the Mosaic... but they (MK rule) would be under a whole different way of dispensation; having had all of the other Covenants leading up to the fulfillment of the structuring.

I'm in the midst of a study of the Kingdom programs... I'm developing that part of my understanding. (I'm sure I'll be getting some humbling, and a-has...that is, if experience is any tell tale sign)

It is an illuminating and also a very edifying topic... Thanks for sharing time with me.

Hope all is well,
Dave
 

TheOvercomers

Well-Known Member
My understanding...

Even now we're not Lawless...
Indeed brother, praise the Lord that we have a throne of Grace, which we may boldly aproach unto.

It is an illuminating and also a very edifying topic... Thanks for sharing time with me.

Hope all is well,
Dave

That is what we are here for, to edify, encourage and exhort one another with all meeknes and humbleness, with love, as saints of the Living God.

And also thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.

But now if you'll excuse me brethren, but staring at this computer screen has given me a massive headache and so I must take a break.

Blessings to all.
 

iSong6:3

Well-Known Member
Indeed brother, praise the Lord that we have a throne of Grace, which we may boldly aproach unto.



That is what we are here for, to edify, encourage and exhort one another with all meeknes and humbleness, with love, as saints of the Living God.

And also thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.

But now if you'll excuse me brethren, but staring at this computer screen has given me a massive headache and so I must take a break.

Blessings to all.

I'm sorry to hear that. Hope you feel better very soon!
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
I just do not have time to deal with all of the issues raised at the moment. I will try to get to some of them this evening.

However, I do want to register a caution over Peters and his Theocratic Kingdom work. Peters was a non-dispensationalist (which to my mind is a serious error) and some of his research (if not his scholarship) is lacking. Charles Hill in his work Regnum Caelorum (the Reign of Heaven) presents evidence that the apostolic Fathers did not unanimously accept premillenialism. Alan Patrick Boyd argues effectively against dispensationalism and premillennialism, destroying much of Peters' work, in his thesis titled "A Dispensational Premillennial Analysis". And even a solid premillennialist like D. H. Kromminga admits that premillennialism was not unanimously held by the Church of the first few centuries".

I do not say that to argue against either dispensationalism or premillennialism. I am solidly both. But bear in mind that while some of Peters' research is good, you cannot take it at face value and must double check every piece of evidence he presents.
 

iSong6:3

Well-Known Member
Good to know beforehand, brother, thank you! I weed those out.

Preceptaustin presents every viewpoint, usually they tell which view each represents. In fact, they might on the first page Millennium 1.
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
I love Preceptaustin ... great resource. But you do have to weigh everything. It is a minefield for those who are not mature in the Word. Which is why I am very careful to whom I recommend it.
 

TheOvercomers

Well-Known Member
I just do not have time to deal with all of the issues raised at the moment. I will try to get to some of them this evening.

Do not trouble yourself brother, forgive me for bringing them up. As for what law shall proceed from the only begotten Son of God at the time of the Millennium, I shall leave those secret things alone, for they belong unto God, and one day we shall see it and hear it. May HIS NAME forever be praised.

I shall be content to rest and meditate upon these Scriptures...

Matt 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.

Thank you brother Paul...

God Bless.
 
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