Angels: The Joker vs. The General

Rocky Rivera

Well-Known Member
Anyone who's even had a minor brush with Christian theology should know that Satan is not the opposite of God, because opposite implies equality while being antithetical. God has no equal as a person. Satan's opposite is Michael. But, are they equal? In a sense of being, well yes -- they are both angels, they are both created beings of the same race, they are both accountable to God, and they are both finite.

Hollywood and popular junk-food theology would have you think that Satan and his demons are vastly powerful and can hold their own against God's angelic armies. I think not. Ezekiel 28: 13 describes Lucifer's job >> The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created. Timbrels and pipes are musical instruments. In other words, Lucifer was created to bring God glory by giving Him entertainment! He was made to be the jester, the joker. Now, he may have been God's clown-in-chief, but still a clown. I also like to think that the one-third of angels that joined Lucifer were all the other clowns.

The archangel Michael, however, was built for battle. Revelation 20:1 says, "Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, he laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years..." There is not even an extended battle, this single round probably lasting less than three minutes. Michael simply lays hold of him, and binds him according to the command of the LORD.

When these two contended over the body of Moses, it did not even come to blows, but Michael said, "The Lord rebuke you!" And THAT was enough to deter the Devil from doing anything more. Put in a human context, it's like the biggest jock in school intimidating a very annoying classmate, striking fear into him. Not much is said about Michael in popular culture, the media placing more emphasis on and overestimating Lucifer. Now, God didn't make Michael general over the angel army without equipping him with tools and abilities that give him leverage over all the angels. Michael is to the other angels what a man like Samson (with God's blessing of strength) would be to us. A full-blown fight between Michael and Satan would be like Samson vs. Napoleon Dynamite. At the Commander's nod, and when the two meet in combat for the final time, I'd imagine it would be like this:

Michael: Give me your lunch money!
Satan: Please don't hurt me!

Now, sure compared to us Satan is very powerful. We're only human, and until our glorification it has not yet been revealed what we will be. An ant (human) is no match for a beetle (Satan), but both are no match a dog (Michael) -- and all three are no match for a Lion!
 

tinyprayers

Well-Known Member
I think we have to remember. Our Omniscient father created Lucifer.
And all things are predestined, predetermined, according to God's will, plan, and for his glory.
 

Mish

This world is not my home!
With all due respect, from my own reading of God’s Word....

I was of the impression that before his fall, satan was given a great deal of authority and responsibility within Heaven. God created him with great beauty and much intelligence; for these reasons (at minimum) pride consumed him and he believed he could (& should) take the place of God.

The description of satan being a court jester, a clown who’s job was to provide entertainment to God does not seem biblically accurate, at least to me.

Our Heavenly Father, Almighty God and Creator is the author of all Truth; for those reading who might not have an extensive biblical background, I would not want them to walk away believing that satan is merely (or depicted in The Bible) as a bumbling angel juggling fruit before Almighty God for His sheer desire for entertainment.

If I am incorrect on this matter, I humbly ask your forgiveness !

✝~Mish
 

Rocky Rivera

Well-Known Member
With all due respect, from my own reading of God’s Word....

I was of the impression that before his fall, satan was given a great deal of authority and responsibility within Heaven. God created him with great beauty and much intelligence; for these reasons (at minimum) pride consumed him and he believed he could (& should) take the place of God.

The description of satan being a court jester, a clown who’s job was to provide entertainment to God does not seem biblically accurate, at least to me.

Our Heavenly Father, Almighty God and Creator is the author of all Truth; for those reading who might not have an extensive biblical background, I would not want them to walk away believing that satan is merely (or depicted in The Bible) as a bumbling angel juggling fruit before Almighty God for His sheer desire for entertainment.

If I am incorrect on this matter, I humbly ask your forgiveness !

✝~Mish
What authority? You mean over the other clowns? Probably the one-third that joined Lucifer in his rebellion were the other angels who were made for entertainment. Ezekiel 28: 13 says, "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created."

Pipes and timbrels, NOT sword and buckler. Made to lead a choir -- NOT general over the angelic army. When Michael contended with Satan over the body of Moses, Michael merely said, "The LORD rebuke you!" Michael didn't even need to throw punches, Satan was intimidated enough by the big, burly general. Bumbling angel? It's all relative in the sense that compared to us, Satan is powerful. But before God, he is WEAK! And why wouldn't he be juggling before God Almighty? God is God, and uses us for anything He wishes. Secularly wise? Perhaps. But how could he ever think he could contend with omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence? This is a joke, right? It's insanity, a twisting of his wisdom.
 
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greg64

Well-Known Member
Read this last night and it's bothered me since... I believe Mish has it right. Of course Satan is no match for Michael in a fight, but one of the reasons for that is Michael is acting in God's will, not his own, which is why he said the Lord rebuke you and nothing more. Satan is to this day allowed access to Heaven to accuse us night and day. One day soon, Michael will get his orders to clean house and Revelation shows what happens then. To say that Satan was only created as a jester is, in my opinion, demeaning to God. Ezekiel 28:12 seems to indicate otherwise. Angels have various functions or jobs -- Michael is the chief warrior, Gabriel communicates to man and seems involved with God's plan unfolding, and the enemy also had has part. I've usually heard it described as related to guarding God's Holiness and/or leading worship, both of which are a far cry from being a jester. If a jester fell, would he take a third of angels with him? I think not. No... whatever the details were, it was close enough to God that he started wanting to be worshiped himself and thus fell.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Jude has a warning here: NIV " In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings. 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them."
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
2 Peter 2:10-12 is a parallel passage: NIV
This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings; 11 yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing judgment on them from the Lord. 12 But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.

Both Peter and Jude thought it important to warn us not to make fun of fallen angels. Let God take care of them.
 

Mish

This world is not my home!
It is neither my desire to argue or cause confusion for those who read this thread.

I’m not very good with technology, thus I have no idea how to attach a link. But the following words were taken from the Gotquestions.org website. A search for the name satan is my source.

“Satan was the anointed cherub (Ezekiel 28:14), adorned with every precious jewel imaginable (Ezekiel 28:13). He was the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty (Ezekiel 28:12b)”. Likely he was the highest of all the angels. On a different question regarding satan, the site stated, “cherubs are angelic creatures, possibly the highest order of angels”.

A cherub is a guardian angel, tasked to guard the holiness of God, Almighty. In No place (that I can find ) does God’s Word indicate satan as being a jester.

For the above statements, I humbly stand by my original comment. And, No, sir this is NOT a joke, I sincerely believe what I wrote to include my response at this moment.
 

Rocky Rivera

Well-Known Member
If you recall the book of Job, all the angels went to present themselves before the LORD. Satan came among them, I suspect, not out of obedience to God -- but only because God MADE him do it. I'm pretty sure these accountings happen every so often among the angelic host, both fallen and unfallen. To the unfallen, it's God's way of reminding them that if He wants to make them do something, He can certainly make them do it! Therefore, nothing happens in the entire universe -- from the monumental to the microscopic -- apart from the permissive will of God. If He wanted to, nothing in this entire cosmos can move unless He allows it. He holds everything together -- even when at one time He caused the world to stop spinning (book of Joshua). In human terms, what does it speak of a person's stature in government if four-star generals are fetching that person's coffee? Then what does it speak of God when the mightiest creatures with vast superpowers bow very low before Him and perform any trick He wants? God is in control, God is an awesome God!
 

Rocky Rivera

Well-Known Member
2 Peter 2:10-12 is a parallel passage: NIV
This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings; 11 yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing judgment on them from the Lord. 12 But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.

Both Peter and Jude thought it important to warn us not to make fun of fallen angels. Let God take care of them.
There's a stark difference between making fun of them and discussing them, or even comparing them. When Satan tempted Jesus, Jesus used the word of God. So, when Satan whispers in your ear, use the word of God. When the devils remind you of your past, use the word of God to remind them of their future!
 

Sowen

Well-Known Member
. Ezekiel 28: 13 describes Lucifer's job >> The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created. Timbrels and pipes are musical instruments. In other words, Lucifer was created to bring God glory by giving Him entertainment! He was made to be the jester, the joker. Now, he may have been God's clown-in-chief, but still a clown. I also like to think that the one-third of angels that joined Lucifer were all the other clowns.
You cannot logically deduce that Satan was made to provide entertainment for God from your premises, let alone to be God’s “clown-in-chief” because pipes and timbrels aren’t solely for entertainment. And most importantly, Scripture does not say this.

It’s crucial to keep everything in context—immediate context and the Bible as a whole—to avoid misinterpretation. The next verse, Ezekiel 28:14, tells us what Satan’s role was: the anointed cherub that covers. The cherubim are described in the Bible as being guardians, which is far from jesters and clowns.

Cherubim also cover the mercy seat. This, and the fact that the tabernacle was a shadow of things in heaven, is important as it signifies cherubim are not entertainers for God who sits enthroned above them.

I think it’s no coincidence that the description of Satan in Ezekiel 28:13 parallels the high priest’s garments especially since verse 14 calls him the “anointed” cherub and that he walked in the midst of the stones of fire. It’s also noteworthy that the entire Levitical priesthood points directly at Christ who is the Anointed One and the High Priest.

Pipes and timbrels, NOT sword and buckler. Made to lead a choir -- NOT general over the angelic army.
Ezekiel 28:14 tells us Satan is a cherub, and it may also allude to him as once being head cherub. After the fall of man, God placed cherubim with the flaming sword to guard the tree of life. Hence, it can be fairly assumed that cherubim are battle ready and not unarmed choirboys which makes sense because God entrusted them with such a monumental duty.

When Michael contended with Satan over the body of Moses, Michael merely said, "The LORD rebuke you!" Michael didn't even need to throw punches, Satan was intimidated enough by the big, burly general.
You’re taking that passage out of context. Ironically, you’re doing the very thing that the passage is warning against which is reviling angelic majesties.


If I had to classify any of the angelic beings as designated worshippers, it’d be the seraphim not the cherubim.
 

Rocky Rivera

Well-Known Member
You cannot logically deduce that Satan was made to provide entertainment for God from your premises, let alone to be God’s “clown-in-chief” because pipes and timbrels aren’t solely for entertainment. And most importantly, Scripture does not say this.

It’s crucial to keep everything in context—immediate context and the Bible as a whole—to avoid misinterpretation. The next verse, Ezekiel 28:14, tells us what Satan’s role was: the anointed cherub that covers. The cherubim are described in the Bible as being guardians, which is far from jesters and clowns.

Cherubim also cover the mercy seat. This, and the fact that the tabernacle was a shadow of things in heaven, is important as it signifies cherubim are not entertainers for God who sits enthroned above them.

I think it’s no coincidence that the description of Satan in Ezekiel 28:13 parallels the high priest’s garments especially since verse 14 calls him the “anointed” cherub and that he walked in the midst of the stones of fire. It’s also noteworthy that the entire Levitical priesthood points directly at Christ who is the Anointed One and the High Priest.


Ezekiel 28:14 tells us Satan is a cherub, and it may also allude to him as once being head cherub. After the fall of man, God placed cherubim with the flaming sword to guard the tree of life. Hence, it can be fairly assumed that cherubim are battle ready and not unarmed choirboys which makes sense because God entrusted them with such a monumental duty.


You’re taking that passage out of context. Ironically, you’re doing the very thing that the passage is warning against which is reviling angelic majesties.


If I had to classify any of the angelic beings as designated worshippers, it’d be the seraphim not the cherubim.
Reviling? I think you're taking my words out of context. I believe "reviling" angelic majesties infers to not messing with them, hence the prohibition by God against anything to do with the occult. But it's safe to say that Satan is guilty of sedition against the Divine One, stands in contempt of the Almighty, and was intimidated by God's most powerful angel.
 

greg64

Well-Known Member
But it's safe to say that Satan is guilty of sedition against the Divine One, stands in contempt of the Almighty, and was intimidated by God's most powerful angel.
I agree with two of the three here... the exception being the last. I'd say it's more that he was beaten by God's power with Michael -- the glory and power always goes to God, not His servants, even servants as powerful as Gabriel or Michael -- and they would be the first to deflect any glory heading their way (how many times in the Bible does a person try to worship an angel and get rebuked?). The larger point is that Michael didn't dare revile Satan directly, and instead said The Lord Rebuke you. I think there's a message there that should come across to us loud and clear when dealing with our adversaries both in the physical and spiritual realms. I believe it has to do with pride, and is one of the things that led Satan to his downfall.
 

Sowen

Well-Known Member
Reviling? I think you're taking my words out of context. I believe "reviling" angelic majesties infers to not messing with them, hence the prohibition by God against anything to do with the occult. But it's safe to say that Satan is guilty of sedition against the Divine One, stands in contempt of the Almighty, and was intimidated by God's most powerful angel.
Oh, I see. Now, I understand how you're reading that passage. Thank you for the clarification, and now, please allow me to clarify what I meant.

Calling the fallen angels jesters and clowns is belittling because their true nature is nothing of the sort. This belittling is reviling angelic majesties, which is something not even Michael dared to do because he remained in his proper place and left judgement with God where it belongs. If your goal is to draw contrasts between the angels, Jude 9 provides us an excellent example of how the angels should be compared because it shows their interaction in relation God, and not in relation to each other which is what you're doing. The relation to God is paramount because that's the point of everything. God first, always.

Their submission (Michael) and rebellion (Satan) to God is on display in Jude 9. In Michael's case, he didn't use his own power against Satan, but yielded to God. He rightly placed God first and himself below God. Satan did the exact opposite. The devil placed himself first and God below him.

It may not be your intention, but you're also giving the impression that the enemy can be taken lightly which can lead astray those who don't know that Scripture teaches us that the enemy is a serious threat and should be regarded as such. It's also, indirectly, a reckless and unbiblical portrayal of God as it warps His infinite wisdom and sovereignty in creating them into that of a mercurial and bored despot toying with his slaves.

Conversely, a biblical case for reviling angelic majesties can be made that you're doing the same with Michael by ascribing attributes to him that aren't his but God's alone which is expressly forbidden in Scripture; for instance, the incident over Moses' body. Scripture does not say Satan was intimidated by Michael because of Michael's power. In fact, Scripture doesn't say Satan is intimidated at all by Michael. The devil brazenly defies the Almighty Ancient of Days, and wars continuously against His angels; therefore, we can surmise that if he doesn't even fear God, he doesn't fear any of God's angels, not even Michael.

You also seem to be implying that angels who worship and proclaim God's glory are weaker in strength to those who are "built for battle", but there is no Scriptural support for this. For all we know, every angel could be equal in this regard, which wouldn't be surprising as they're in continuous battle presently and will have a war in heaven.

The archangel Michael, however, was built for battle. Revelation 20:1 says, "Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, he laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years..." There is not even an extended battle, this single round probably lasting less than three minutes. Michael simply lays hold of him, and binds him according to the command of the LORD.
Scripture doesn't say the angel is Michael. It simply says "an angel". Where did you learn this? I'm curious because I can't recall where I've come across it.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Calling the fallen angels jesters and clowns is belittling because their true nature is nothing of the sort. This belittling is reviling angelic majesties, which is something not even Michael dared to do because he remained in his proper place and left judgement with God where it belongs.
That was what I was trying to get at in the quotation from Jude.
It may not be your intention, but you're also giving the impression that the enemy can be taken lightly which can lead astray those who don't know that Scripture teaches us that the enemy is a serious threat and should be regarded as such.
This verse in particular reminds us to be alert and sober. One of the older implications of the word sober is NOT the opposite of drunken behaviour which is how we use the word sober nowadays, but the proper meaning being to take things VERY seriously, no joking around, no making fun. To be alert and sober. To be self disciplined as the Amplified puts it.
1 Peter 5:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

in the King James version the reason we stay alert and sober (not joking or making fun) is BECAUSE the enemy prowls like a lion seeking whom he may devour. my emphasis here.

Peter 5:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

And in the Amplified it says this:

1 Peter 5:8 Amplified Bible (AMP)
8 Be sober [well balanced and self-disciplined], be alert and cautious at all times. That enemy of yours, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion [fiercely hungry], seeking someone to devour.
 

Rocky Rivera

Well-Known Member
Oh, I see. Now, I understand how you're reading that passage. Thank you for the clarification, and now, please allow me to clarify what I meant.

If your goal is to draw contrasts between the angels, Jude 9 provides us an excellent example of how the angels should be compared because it shows their interaction in relation God, and not in relation to each other which is what you're doing. The relation to God is paramount because that's the point of everything. God first, always.

Their submission (Michael) and rebellion (Satan) to God is on display in Jude 9. In Michael's case, he didn't use his own power against Satan, but yielded to God. He rightly placed God first and himself below God. Satan did the exact opposite. The devil placed himself first and God below him.

It may not be your intention, but you're also giving the impression that the enemy can be taken lightly which can lead astray those who don't know that Scripture teaches us that the enemy is a serious threat and should be regarded as such. It's also, indirectly, a reckless and unbiblical portrayal of God as it warps His infinite wisdom and sovereignty in creating them into that of a mercurial and bored despot toying with his slaves.

Conversely, a biblical case for reviling angelic majesties can be made that you're doing the same with Michael by ascribing attributes to him that aren't his but God's alone which is expressly forbidden in Scripture; for instance, the incident over Moses' body. Scripture does not say Satan was intimidated by Michael because of Michael's power. In fact, Scripture doesn't say Satan is intimidated at all by Michael. The devil brazenly defies the Almighty Ancient of Days, and wars continuously against His angels; therefore, we can surmise that if he doesn't even fear God, he doesn't fear any of God's angels, not even Michael.

You also seem to be implying that angels who worship and proclaim God's glory are weaker in strength to those who are "built for battle", but there is no Scriptural support for this. For all we know, every angel could be equal in this regard, which wouldn't be surprising as they're in continuous battle presently and will have a war in heaven.

Scripture doesn't say the angel is Michael. It simply says "an angel". Where did you learn this? I'm curious because I can't recall where I've come across it.
Compared to God? Nothing can compare to God. God has no equal as a Person. We're all finite creatures -- animal, human, and angel alike. We are as nothing before Him.

Also, in Daniel 10:13, we read, "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia." The angel sent by God to Daniel told the prophet that he was dispatched in answer to his prayer when he began praying, but was withstood by the demonic prince of Persia for twenty-one days, until Michael (one of the chief princes) came to help him. Clearly, there is a difference of strength among the members of the angelic race.

Also in Mark 9: 28, regarding a demon the disciples could not cast out, " And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out? And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting." We can infer from this passage that in comparison to the disciples' earlier ministry when Jesus sent them out two-by-two, where they did not mention experiencing any difficult in casting out demons, this one offered great resistance. Even when Jesus ordered the unclean spirit out, it performed one last act of violence before leaving. (Mark 9: 26-27). On an arithmetic scale, perhaps this demon had a strength level of 10/10. Humor me, I'm playing the scientist here.

Just because the Devil brazenly defies the Ancient of Days does not mean he is without fear. James 2:19 says, "You believe that there is one God; you do well: the demons also believe, and tremble." I'm pretty sure the God who enjoys making each of His creatures different from one another had made each angel unique, with its own free will, with varying capacities of wisdom, intelligence, strength, power, position, and employment.

Toying with His slaves? Jesus is God, and He addresses us as friends. In reality, He should call us slaves. Think of the difference in power, wisdom, etc between God and His creatures -- angelic, human, or whatever. That's why when we hear that He calls us friends, or calls us His children it should astound us!

Jude 1:9 says, "Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" It names the angel as Michael. Of course our enemy can't be taken lightly. We're no match for him. I'm just saying that an ant (human) is no match for a beetle (Satan), but BOTH are no match for a Lion (God), or a dog (Michael).

Oh, wait -- you mean that verse in Revelations, right -- where an angel lays hold of Satan? You're right, it doesn't name "Michael", just an angel. Guess we'll find out when we see that beatdown. Tell you what, when I get the chance, I'll ask that angel what its name is. You can come along with me and hear the answer then.
 
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Sowen

Well-Known Member
Compared to God? Nothing can compare to God. God has no equal as a Person. We're all finite creatures -- animal, human, and angel alike. We are as nothing before Him.
I don’t mean they should be compared to God. You’re absolutely right - nothing compares to God. I mean any comparisons between them should be in relation to God - compare them based on their submission to God, and not in relation to each other i.e. pitting one angel’s strength against another’s because that’s not what Jude 9 is describing.

Also, in Daniel 10:13, we read, "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia." ... Clearly, there is a difference of strength among the members of the angelic race.
I don’t think this necessarily tells us there are differences in strength between the angels. This tells us only that the angel sent to Daniel was held up by the prince of Persia and most likely another demon which is why the angel also said he was left alone with the kings (plural) of Persia.

The fallen angels rebel against God’s will whereas God’s angels submit to God’s will, so it’s possible that the angel sent to Daniel was fully capable in his own strength of reaching Daniel by himself, but he didn’t because it may have meant doing something that went against God’s will if he did (just like Michael knew his boundaries with Satan when disputing over Moses’ body).

Also in Mark 9: 28, regarding a demon the disciples could not cast out, " And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out? And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting." We can infer from this passage that in comparison to the disciples' earlier ministry when Jesus sent them out two-by-two, where they did not mention experiencing any difficult in casting out demons, this one offered great resistance. Even when Jesus ordered the unclean spirit out, it performed one last act of violence before leaving. (Mark 9: 26-27). On an arithmetic scale, perhaps this demon had a strength level of 10/10. Humor me, I'm playing the scientist here.
Christ tells us the exact reason they couldn’t cast out that demon: “...This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.” This does not state or imply that there are degrees of strength among the angels. It’s more of an argument that there are different methods to cast out demons, depending upon the type of demon, which is why Christ said “this kind” instead of referring to the demon’s strength as being greater than another demon’s. Further support for this can be found elsewhere when the disciples couldn’t cast out a demon because they lacked faith, not because the demon was stronger than other demons.

Just because the Devil brazenly defies the Ancient of Days does not mean he is without fear. James 2:19 says, "You believe that there is one God; you do well: the demons also believe, and tremble." I'm pretty sure the God who enjoys making each of His creatures different from one another had made each angel unique, with its own free will, with varying capacities of wisdom, intelligence, strength, power, position, and employment.
The demons tremble in terror because they know God’s wrath and righteous judgement awaits them, not because they’re afraid of God. Their evil behavior makes it clear they have no fear of God.

It’s a bit like criminals running and hiding from the police. They’re not afraid of the cops; they’re afraid of the punishment that awaits.

Toying with His slaves? Jesus is God, and He addresses us as friends.
I don’t mean God toys with slaves, and I don’t mean God has slaves at all. That was an analogy of your portrayal of God as creating jesters and clowns for His entertainment.

Of course our enemy can't be taken lightly. We're no match for him. I'm just saying that an ant (human) is no match for a beetle (Satan), but BOTH are no match for a Lion (God), or a dog (Michael).
I know you’re well-intentioned, but belittling the enemy by calling them jesters, clowns, and the choir, lessens or removes the severity of their threat because no one views those as dangerous, which can lead some to stumble.

Oh, wait -- you mean that verse in Revelations, right -- where an angel lays hold of Satan? You're right, it doesn't name "Michael", just an angel. Guess we'll find out when we see that beatdown. Tell you what, when I get the chance, I'll ask that angel what its name is. You can come along with me and hear the answer then.
I don’t want to know the angel’s name. I just wanted to know where you learned the angel’s name was Michael because I’ve heard this before but can’t recall where I had. It’d be amusing if the angel’s name is Clarence.

——-

You could be correct that the angels are different in strength. I just haven’t found any Scripture that unequivocally supports it. Rather, there appears to be an angelic hierarchy based on status and authority not strength.
 

Mish

This world is not my home!
In other words, Lucifer was created to bring God glory by giving Him entertainment!

These “other words” are not God’s Word; The Bible does not make this statement. You wrote this in the form of a factual statement, which could cause confusion for someone (non-members or members, alike) searching for Biblical information.

He was made to be the jester, the joker. Now, he may have been God's clown-in-chief, but still a clown.

Again, this was written by you in the form of a factual statement. We are warned NOT to change God’s Word, not to add or subtract from It. My previous replies were made (unsuccessfully, it seems) to clarify and differentiate between a personal opinion and what God has stated in His Holy Word.


I
also like to think that the one-third of angels that joined Lucifer were all the other clowns.

You did caveat that the first portion of your statement was opinion based, the problem still remains because it infers that the overall premise (that Lucifer’s purpose was that of a jester or clown) is based on Biblical facts. But once again, my primary concern was (and is) for Biblical Truth and accuracy. We must be diligent in our words and dedicated in our desire to share His Word, as it is written.


Sir, as I have previously stated, my intention has never been to argue, debate or disrespect you in any way. I did (and still do) feel that it was important to make sure that others were aware of the Scriptural evidence, which other members did a much better job at providing! Blessings to all!
~Mish ✝
 
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