Alec Baldwin kills one and injures another with a prop gun.

crunchymama

Well-Known Member
What I don't get it how did a live round get in there? If you have a box of blanks and a box of live rounds, they shouldn't be near each other while you're loading the mag. of course, why would there be live rounds there to begin with? I don't understand.

Regardless, I feel bad for Alec, unless it is proven he put a live round in there. It would be awful to kill an innocent person by mistake, :pray he comes to Christ
 

Rocky R.

Well-Known Member
From what I've read, there was discord on the set with threats of crew members walking off the job.
Alec, along with acting in the film, was also listed as a producer or director. I could see him getting angry over a possible
walk-out or if things weren't being done the way he wanted. Why was there a gun - and more-so, live ammunition in the area
at all???? Why would live ammunition be on the set?? Did someone else want someone shot, like in so many murder mysteries
we all watch on tv or in the movies?? Truly puzzling, that's for sure............
I always thought they used blanks in Hollywood films. With the amount of risk involved, why go for live? Someone had it out for someone. Anyone seen that pic of Baldwin after the incident happened where he was talking on his phone? It looked as if he was smiling. Just sayin’.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
From what I've read, there was discord on the set with threats of crew members walking off the job.
Alec, along with acting in the film, was also listed as a producer or director. I could see him getting angry over a possible
walk-out or if things weren't being done the way he wanted. Why was there a gun - and more-so, live ammunition in the area
at all???? Why would live ammunition be on the set?? Did someone else want someone shot, like in so many murder mysteries
we all watch on tv or in the movies?? Truly puzzling, that's for sure............
Call that lady on "Murder, She Wrote"?
 

Accepted

Well-Known Member
The latest article I read about this stated that the producers had hired non-union production people and the person who was in charge of props wasn't a union member. This was another reason the union production people were walking off the set, they were concerned about the safety of making the movie because of these non-union workers. The union production people felt these other workers weren't properly trained, which may have turned out to be a valid concern if it turns out the props manager mistakenly or accidentally put a live round in the gun. It's a sad situation all around. :sad Alec's brother, Stephen, says he's a Christian, so maybe he can use this as time of witnessing to Alec and maybe he'll come to Christ. :pray
Speaking of family members who are believers, Alec also has a sister-in-law, Chynna Phillips, who is a Christian. She’s married to Billy Baldwin, and is the daughter of Michelle and John Phillips, of the Mamas and the Papas. I only know this because I happened to see once that she has a YouTube channel where she talks about Jesus, but don’t know more than that, and obviously hope she knows sound doctrine. But all this is to say that Alec will have people praying for him.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven

Nolte: Attorney Says Alec Baldwin ‘Needs to Start Thinking like a Potential Defendant’​

Attorney Andrew Stoltmann believes actor Alec Baldwin “needs to start thinking like a potential defendant instead of just somebody who made a tragic mistake.”

“There are crimes that cover this sort of situation depending on his level of culpability.”

“I’m certainly not saying he’s going to be charged,” the Chicago-based attorney told Fox News, “but what I am saying is anytime somebody shoots another human being – even on accident, even in self-defense – the police and eventually prosecutors look very, very carefully at what happened.”

“There are literally about a hundred different issues that would need to be resolved, but there is something called negligent homicide,” he added.

“[T]he $64,000 question is: What role did he have with respect to preparing this gun? Were there any testing processes or procedures that he skipped or didn’t partake in?”

While we have no firm grasp on how this tragedy unfolded, this is excellent advice. And Baldwin was not just an actor in the film. He was also a producer, which means he holds responsibilities when it comes to hiring, and this could include hiring the prop people and/or armorer.

Also, as the unfortunate person who accidentally shot and killed someone, on top of any criminal liability, Baldwin is facing civil liability—not just as the shooter but as the producer.

https://www.breitbart.com/entertain...to-start-thinking-like-a-potential-defendant/
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven

Reports: Chaos Plagued Alec Baldwin Movie Set as Fatigued Film Crew Walked Off Moments Before Fatal Shooting​

The crew of the Alec Baldwin movie Rust reportedly experienced on-set gun safety issues prior to Thursday’s deadly shooting incident in which the actor discharged a prop gun, killing the movie’s cinematographer and injuring its director.

While much still remains unclear about the fatal incident that took place on the movie’s New Mexico set, early reports are painting a picture of a production that was already in trouble days before the tragic killing, with crew members allegedly protesting against working conditions.

About a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions just hours before the fatal incident, according to a report in The Los Angeles Times. The camera operators and their assistants were reportedly frustrated by the conditions surrounding the indie film, including complaints of long hours and pay, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment to the newspaper.

Several nonunion crew members showed up to replace them, an anonymous source told the Times. A member of the producer staff then ordered the union members to leave the set. She said if they didn’t leave, the producers would call security to remove them.

“Corners were being cut — and they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting,” the source reportedly said.

There were two misfires of the prop gun on Saturday and one the previous week, according to the Times report, and “there was a serious lack of safety meetings on this set.”

https://www.breitbart.com/entertain...rew-walked-off-moments-before-fatal-shooting/
 

Aiyanna

Well-Known Member
I always thought you were supposed to at least check.... Especially if you plan on pulling the trigger and you don't really want a bullet flying out...

Edit: And I'm not expert at guns, but I do know the feel of a real one vs a fake. But regardless you should always be double and triple checking before even thinking about pulling the trigger. And I was always told that, even if you check, you should never point the gun at anyone. Ever. Unless it's with purpose, like self-defense.... Shouldn't there be something like extreme safety measures? Especially since most actors and actresses don't seem to know anything about guns? Isn't there such a thing as "camera angles" and "tricking the eyes"? :noidea2
 
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Jan51

Well-Known Member
From what I've read, there was discord on the set with threats of crew members walking off the job.
Alec, along with acting in the film, was also listed as a producer or director. I could see him getting angry over a possible
walk-out or if things weren't being done the way he wanted. Why was there a gun - and more-so, live ammunition in the area
at all???? Why would live ammunition be on the set?? Did someone else want someone shot, like in so many murder mysteries
we all watch on tv or in the movies?? Truly puzzling, that's for sure............
I just read that the victim's husband is an attorney for a law firm who is representing the Clinton organization lawyer, Sussman. Probably just coincidence.
 

jayhawkbasketball

Well-Known Member
I always thought you were supposed to at least check.... Especially if you plan on pulling the trigger and you don't really want a bullet flying out...

Edit: And I'm not expert at guns, but I do know the feel of a real one vs a fake. But regardless you should always be double and triple checking before even thinking about pulling the trigger. And I was always told that, even if you check, you should never point the gun at anyone. Ever. Unless it's with purpose, like self-defense.... Shouldn't there be something like extreme safety measures? Especially since most actors and actresses don't seem to know anything about guns? Isn't there such a thing as "camera angles" and "tricking the eyes"? :noidea2
What you’re saying here is correct, and the very essence of gun handling responsibility. YOU should check, and you should have been TRAINED and REQUIRED to check. The problem is that it’s a “work” environment where other individuals are being given that responsibility without people like Alec having to go through this type of training (I assume, anyway. I admit I could be wrong.)

The issue is that it’s a gun. It’s not coffee, or building a set, or getting lunch, or memorizing lines. With guns, regardless of what they’re loaded with, you only get one opportunity to do it safely. You can do it safely one million times in a row, but if you slip up and ignore some safety rules on the next try, something horrible can happen.

The back pressure alone from a fire arm, especially from a round fired from a rifle, can be debilitating in and of itself. If you’ve ever stood in a stall in a firing range, you know what I mean. It can literally make you sick and want to sit down.

I don’t like Alec, but I do feel for him. I’m sure it was a genuine accident. I’d hate to have that guilt on my conscience for the rest of my life.
 

jayhawkbasketball

Well-Known Member
I also think we need to stop using the term “live round”. A “live round” can be anything. A real bullet, wadding, foreign debris, blanks, etc.

I would be utterly shocked and in complete astonishment if there was a real bullet in that gun, or anywhere on set. If there was a real bullet in that gun, someone should spend the rest of their life in prison.

We have to stop thinking that someone can only get killed with a real bullet from a gun. Blanks, fire from the barrel, debris, concussions, wadding, etc. can all do real damage.

Words are important in a situation like this. I’m not preaching at anyone in particular here, I’m just making a point. Gun culture suffers a lot from misunderstandings when it comes to words and how guns actually operate.

If people using the term “live round” mean a “real bullet”, we should probably say “real bullet” to make it clear for everyone what you mean.

Just an observation, not judging or throwing shade on anyone.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
I always thought you were supposed to at least check.... Especially if you plan on pulling the trigger and you don't really want a bullet flying out...

Edit: And I'm not expert at guns, but I do know the feel of a real one vs a fake. But regardless you should always be double and triple checking before even thinking about pulling the trigger. And I was always told that, even if you check, you should never point the gun at anyone. Ever. Unless it's with purpose, like self-defense.... Shouldn't there be something like extreme safety measures? Especially since most actors and actresses don't seem to know anything about guns? Isn't there such a thing as "camera angles" and "tricking the eyes"? :noidea2

From what I'm reading about this it sounds like they hire people on movie sets to do the checking for the actors. And while they're filming hollywood probably points guns at people and fires more often than the rest of the world combined. It's routine on movie sets to point the prop guns, whether they're real or toys, at others and pull the trigger over and over again. If I were an actor, I'd want to check the gun myself each and every time. Hopefully the producer would allow me the time...
 

Rocky R.

Well-Known Member
I always thought you were supposed to at least check.... Especially if you plan on pulling the trigger and you don't really want a bullet flying out...

Edit: And I'm not expert at guns, but I do know the feel of a real one vs a fake. But regardless you should always be double and triple checking before even thinking about pulling the trigger. And I was always told that, even if you check, you should never point the gun at anyone. Ever. Unless it's with purpose, like self-defense.... Shouldn't there be something like extreme safety measures? Especially since most actors and actresses don't seem to know anything about guns? Isn't there such a thing as "camera angles" and "tricking the eyes"? :noidea2
I grew up around firearms, but since many people in Hollywood are anti-gun and inexperienced around firearms, and with the movie industry having so much money couldn't they spare a few dollars for hollow prop guns made out of cardboard? Along with CGI and special effects, the final product could look and sound exactly like the real thing.

Also, check this out. Looks like the media is trying to put their own spin on things and blame the non-union crew that came in to replace the people who walked out complaining about unsafe working conditions and long, long hours. Maybe they're trying to hide the fact that working with a loudmouthed, uptight angry guy like Baldwin was too much -- like the male version of Ellen Degeneres.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
Maybe they're trying to hide the fact that working with a loudmouthed, uptight angry guy like Baldwin was too much -- like the male version of Ellen Degeneres.

You seem to know a lot about Baldwin. Do you know him personally? I've read snippets about him that aren't positive. I don't know him though. I've never met him. Never seen him except when watching a movie. It would be wrong of me to cast aspersions his way since I don't have any first hand knowledge.
 

depserv

Well-Known Member
Even if I'm looking at a gun in a gun store and the salesman hands it to me I'll pull the slide back or open the cylinder first thing (unless the salesman does it right in my presence and I can see that the gun is unloaded). And even then I keep it pointed in a safe direction. This is because the one holding the gun in his had is responsible for what that gun does. This is fundamental to gun safety and it's important.

Even with a single action revolver, how long would it have taken to check what was in the cylinder? And if I had the gun I would want to be the one who personally loaded the blank cartridges into it; either that or be right there while a gun expert did it.

The four primary rules of gun safety:
Treat every gun as though it's loaded
Keep it pointed in a safe direction, and do not point it at anything you do not intend to shoot
Keep your finger outside of the trigger guard until the gun is pointed downrange and you are ready to fire
Be aware of your background, in case you miss your target or the bullet penetrates through it

I've been in several practical pistol competitions. No one points guns in an unsafe direction there and if they do they are gone. And even then we follow very strict safety procedures. So where real guns are pointed at people and fired I'd think the safety procedures would be even more strict.

That said, it is possible that something happened like what happened when Brandon Lee was killed. So while it seems unlikely at this point, it is possible I suppose that Baldwin did follow a safety protocol; he might have looked into the cylinder and made sure that it did indeed contain blanks, and even though looking down the barrel (with the cylinder open) to make sure there is not a bullet lodged in it is probably a good idea (since that's what caused Lee to get shot) it is probably not part of a typical procedure (though maybe it should be). So it is possible, though unlikely, that the shooter is not responsible and this is an exception to the rule that the shooter is always responsible, though he still probably bears some responsibility as a producer.

The union having walked off because of safety looks really bad for the production company. The union people are the professionals.

I saw a few times reference made to there having been a few "misfires." In my experience media people often don't know what they're talking about so I don't know for sure what they meant by misfire. The meaning of the term misfire is that the hammer fell but it did not fire the round. If a shot is fired accidentally that's called a negligent discharge, or ND. So was it real misfires that had taken place, which would not be a big safety issue, or was it negligent discharges, which would be a really big deal?

Sometimes the movie has shots fired at bottles or rocks or something and the bullet hitting the target is shown, so that might be a reason for having live rounds on the set I suppose. But where there are live rounds being fired, there should be extreme measures taken to control them. When dry fire practice is done it is always recommended that there be no live ammo in the room where it is being done, just to make sure there isn't a mix-up.
 

Rocky R.

Well-Known Member
You seem to know a lot about Baldwin. Do you know him personally? I've read snippets about him that aren't positive. I don't know him though. I've never met him. Never seen him except when watching a movie. It would be wrong of me to cast aspersions his way since I don't have any first hand knowledge.
I don't know him personally, but I know his reputation.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
A vigil has taken place in New Mexico to mourn cinematographer Halyna Hutchins after she was fatally shot on a US film set.
Industry professionals were among those who attended the event in Albuquerque, lighting candles for the 42-year-old.
Hutchins was shot by a prop gun by actor Alec Baldwin on the set of western film Rust on Thursday. Baldwin had been told the gun was safe.
The incident has raised concern about safety on film sets.
"She was so dynamic and when something like this happens, it's devastating to all of us," Sandie Kay, an Albuquerque film worker, told Reuters news agency at the vigil on Saturday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59029509
 
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