Aggression from post-trib believers

Rainy

New Member
Hello dear followers, this is my first post here. My name is Julia and I live in Germany. I came to Christ only about 3-4 months ago. But i really love Him, like I knew him all my life. And, like all of you, I like to read the Bible, especially His Words. Well, I know that the whole Bible is the Word of our God, but I especially like where Jesus speaks Himself, because it is a Truth that was said straight from God to the people, when He walked on the Earth. I find it amazing. Well, long story short, I was surprisingly lucky, that when i started to look up info about Jesus and Gospel in the internet, I've found very good videos and web sites, where the people were just telling the truth about Jesus, there were also links to special verses in the Bible, so you can better understand what they are talking about. I also found videos of Scottie (EternalRhythmFlow) on Youtube, i know many of you know him, too. Well, to the point now.

My point here is: people that believe in pre-trib Rapture are so bright and full of God's light. Their explanations and the way how they put it - so friendly and with love, reminds me purely Jesus himself. There is no anger in their words. There is no proud in their words. They do not scare you with "You dare to tamper the God's Word????" like some others. I enjoyed reading and watching videos about Christ, and salvation, and about the Rapture.

Then, after sometime, i decided to look what the post-trib believers say.And I found that many of them are full of something bad. They really want to be persecuted, and they deny the pre-trib Rapture for all us. But we all are brothers and sisters, how can they wish a persecution for us all, I thought. They are taking the hope from you away. It is hard to read their articles, because they leave you poor and in dirt, like you are still, after acception of Jesus a sinner - deserving a torture and death during the Tribulation. And i really don't like how they twist the Verses so they will fit like they want it. When i read about pre-Trib Rapture, it is logical. But the post-trib Rapture isn't logical to me. Why should we always watch for the Christ Return, if he will surely come after the Tribulation. What's the point of that, when everything predicted in the Bible will become true, and there will be millions of believers, that didn't believe before the Tribulation? And Jesus clearly said that - "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

I really dislike this division in our Flock. I don't like it how the post-trib believers are rude and hateful to others. It is not right.

How do you think, my dears, why such a division is taking now place in the Church, when the time is short? Do we have nothing to do but accuse each other and hate? Isn't it not enough now in the world?

God bless you each and everyone, the Light of the World. Let the Holy Spirit guide us.

PS. Please excuse me for my mistakes, English is not my first language. If a theme like this exists, let me now, i'll move my post there. My notebook is very old and i coudn't search through all the forum, I apologize.
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
Hi Julia,
We are glad that you joined Rapture Forums. Welcome aboard!! :thumbup :hug

I have noticed some of the same things you have noticed about non pre-trib rapture people. Some of them seem to think that they need to go through the seven year tribulation period because they need to be "purified" in some way. It is as if they do not seem to think that Jesus' complete sacrifice on the Cross was good enough, that they need to do something to add to it. :doh: :ohno As you know, Jesus' work on the Cross paid the sin debt for all of us. We just have to choose whether or not to accept the free gift of eternal life that he purchased for us on the Cross. :thumbup

Some of the non pre-trib rapture folks think that since there are Christians in the past and even today that go through trials and tribulations that we will not be spared from THE Tribulation. However, this is not true. The Bible makes crystal clear that the church will NOT go through THE Tribulation. Yes, we all face trials and tribulations in life, but those are not THE seven year Tribulation period of God's wrath on unbelieving Israel and unrepentant sinners. God NEVER pours out his wrath on the righteous. The only ones righteous in this age is those who have placed their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. God's righteousness is imputed to us by grace through faith. :thumbup

I hope that helps some. :hat:

BTW, if you would like to read more articles and commentaries on the Pre-Trib Rapture you can find that section on our main site by clicking here:

The Rapture of the Church
 

UCT

Well-Known Member
Welcome!! Great first post too. I don't understand the division in most religious arguments. I cannot explain why people feel the need to take sides over things that do not matter for a persons salvation. I am pre-trib all the way, but will not argue with a post or mid-trib brother. It serves no purpose and surely doesn't glorify God. I always just smile and tell them they will have an awesome surprise someday. In a way, I'm kind of excited for them. While we are looking for the Rapture, imagine someone who just instantly arrives before our Lord. It would be awesome.
 

Noah Cotterill

Well-Known Member
Matthew 24:48-49

The servant who thinks his master delays will tend to bully others. It's biblical. Not that us pre-tribbers are perfect. I can be mean with my words some times. But generally, believing God will come for us before the tribulation gives us serenity that rubs off in our conversations with others.
 

readytogo

Well-Known Member
Welcome Rainy! I agree with one of the posters above. It is not worth the division in the body to argue with people who are not pre-trib. If they are truly believers, they will go in the rapture at the same time as the rest of us and arguments within the body are not helpful at all. If they are not truly believers, then they will find out the truth when the rest of us go and arguing with them is not helpful.
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
Oh and another thinking that is popular and I have heard with the non pre-trib rapture crowd is that some have this fascination and desire for wanting to be martyred for Christ. When we have the promised blessed hope of the rapture, I don't know why these people have this bizarre desire to be martyred? :twitch :scratch: I guess they think it will make them extra special or something? :idunno:

For me, I'll be martyred if there is a NEED and God's will (for his glory) for me to be martyred, but it is not something I'm going to go looking for when we have the blessed hope. :lol: I'll wait for the first flight to Heaven when the rapture takes place. :nod
 

ShilohRose

Well-Known Member
:welcome: to the Rapture Forums! I agree with you, Rainy, that the post-tribbers are often downright mean to those who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. But they are in for a blessed surprise and soon, I hope!
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
Welcome Rainy! I agree with one of the posters above. It is not worth the division in the body to argue with people who are not pre-trib. If they are truly believers, they will go in the rapture at the same time as the rest of us and arguments within the body are not helpful at all. If they are not truly believers, then they will find out the truth when the rest of us go and arguing with them is not helpful.
Agreed. I have "debated" "discussed" "argued" years ago when I first got saved over the rapture timing and I can not think of a single time someone said on a forum they changed their mind about a rapture timing view. They might have got a seed planted from a pre-tribber and it took root later, but I have found that it is just not worth the trouble to get into those discussions.

Here at Rapture Forums we stick to the conservative, fundamental, time-tested, and sound interpretations of the Bible. As a result, we don't allow those discussions here because we focus on biblical teaching that builds up and feeds the body of Christ. There is plenty of milk and meat (and taters) on the Rapture Forums main site and forums to feed the entire family of Christian believers.

We made the decision not to allow certain discussions (non pre-trib rapture timing, OSnAS, etc) on the forums so as to not have our site bandwidth and resources consumed with tons of unbiblical teachings and "debates". We hope you will find this a great place to "kick off your shoes, have a cup of coffee, and stay a while" with like minded believers. :elmogrin :thumbup

God bless.
 

BuzzardHut

Bird Mod
I didn't know we had any post-tribbers here; :gromit they're not really allowed to push that view here.
Debating important issues can be taken personally when favorite beliefs are challenged; it removes our comfort zone.
 

nillapoet

Well-Known Member
Welcome Julia. I have no answers for your questions other than people just like to argue.

What part of Germany are you from? I was born in Sindelfingen.
 

mikalikat

Citizen
Rainy--what a sweet name! I have learned so much from people here and still am learning much, so welcome.

I've never understood people who adamantly stick with post-trib belief. If God loves so much why would He make us go through such hellish conditions on earth, then be taken out, only to reappear almost immediately (and somewhere between taken up and immediately returning have the Marriage Supper, ect.)? It completely flies in the face of His plan and all that we get to experience after the Rapture but before we come back with Christ.

I literally long for that day when we are called up to meet Jesus. Been through enough, it's time to go Home!
 

Hannah

Well-Known Member
Hello dear followers, this is my first post here. My name is Julia and I live in Germany. I came to Christ only about 3-4 months ago. But i really love Him, like I knew him all my life. And, like all of you, I like to read the Bible, especially His Words. Well, I know that the whole Bible is the Word of our God, but I especially like where Jesus speaks Himself, because it is a Truth that was said straight from God to the people, when He walked on the Earth. I find it amazing. Well, long story short, I was surprisingly lucky, that when i started to look up info about Jesus and Gospel in the internet, I've found very good videos and web sites, where the people were just telling the truth about Jesus, there were also links to special verses in the Bible, so you can better understand what they are talking about. I also found videos of Scottie (EternalRhythmFlow) on Youtube, i know many of you know him, too. Well, to the point now.

My point here is: people that believe in pre-trib Rapture are so bright and full of God's light. Their explanations and the way how they put it - so friendly and with love, reminds me purely Jesus himself. There is no anger in their words. There is no proud in their words. They do not scare you with "You dare to tamper the God's Word????" like some others. I enjoyed reading and watching videos about Christ, and salvation, and about the Rapture.

Then, after sometime, i decided to look what the post-trib believers say.And I found that many of them are full of something bad. They really want to be persecuted, and they deny the pre-trib Rapture for all us. But we all are brothers and sisters, how can they wish a persecution for us all, I thought. They are taking the hope from you away. It is hard to read their articles, because they leave you poor and in dirt, like you are still, after acception of Jesus a sinner - deserving a torture and death during the Tribulation. And i really don't like how they twist the Verses so they will fit like they want it. When i read about pre-Trib Rapture, it is logical. But the post-trib Rapture isn't logical to me. Why should we always watch for the Christ Return, if he will surely come after the Tribulation. What's the point of that, when everything predicted in the Bible will become true, and there will be millions of believers, that didn't believe before the Tribulation? And Jesus clearly said that - "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

I really dislike this division in our Flock. I don't like it how the post-trib believers are rude and hateful to others. It is not right.

How do you think, my dears, why such a division is taking now place in the Church, when the time is short? Do we have nothing to do but accuse each other and hate? Isn't it not enough now in the world?

God bless you each and everyone, the Light of the World. Let the Holy Spirit guide us.

PS. Please excuse me for my mistakes, English is not my first language. If a theme like this exists, let me now, i'll move my post there. My notebook is very old and i coudn't search through all the forum, I apologize.

:wave Welcome Rainy to RF.

You hit the nail on the head. We are not to judge another person's salvation based on these kinds of doctrines or teachings. Where someone stands on the Rapture doesn't point to wether or not they are a Saved Believer in Christ.

Where a person Stands ON JESUS is the Key.

If a person denies Jesus they are denying God's salvation. If a person tries to convince us there is another way to salvation other than through the Death and Ressurrection of Jesus Christ (God's Son) they are preaching another Gospel. Where a person is teaching that you need to PERFORM some work yourself to gain Salvation they are preaching Gospel Plus and basically denying the Lord did it all for us on the Cross.

However to say if you Believe in a Pre-Tribulation you are a Deluded and Dangerous Heretic, then they have missed what the Bible says about Salvation.

Our Unity is in Christ and the Holy Spirit. We come into the Body of Christ through repentance and receiving salvation bought for us by the Blood of Christ (the perfect sacrifice that was able to cover the sins of all mankind from start to finish).

Now I am not saying that we shouldn't have other parts of the Bible correct. However IF (and that is a big if) you think you brother or sister is incorrect in some Biblical interpretation of Scripture then a True Child of God who has received the Holy Spirit would know and understand we are to correct our brothers and sisters in Christ with gentleness and with love.

So to see brothers and sisters in Christ who disagree with a Pre-Trib Rapture stance actually speaking words filled with hate is very disturbing and it is shocking and as you have said NOT Christ Like. The Bible clearly spells it out to us that we are to LOVE our brothers and sisters in Christ.

1JN 3:11 This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 12 Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous. 13 Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15 Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.


This is a warning to us that we need to examine ourselves if we find ourselves hating another person who professes to have repented and received Christ.

Oh we can have arugments and fights but we should then not allow our anger to lead us into Sin but to forgive one another and reconcile (if possible, our difference may be to great to reconcile but we can forgive and agree to disagree).

"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." Basically this saying is a very good observation of human nature. We cannot convince anyone to Believe as we do against their will. God has to show us His Truth, give us revelation through His Spirit. One person often cannot just logically debate another person into their understanding of God's Truth. Deliver your argument and then part ways and pray for God to reveal the Truth (wether to you or the other person).

I too am very saddened by those who hold an opposing Rapture stance who not only disagree but go further to say we are without God or not really Saved or deluded beyond reason etc... They laugh at us and mock us and say some disgraceful things that are not Christ Like.

At least if you disagree with a Pre-Trib Rapture then show us some kindness and love and try to correct us in a Christ Like manner.

I have Christsian friends who hold to mid-Trib Rapture Stance and some even Post Tribulation that are reasonal and respectful Brothers and Sisters in Christ. We do have civil and respectful conversations on the End Times. However we mainly share about Jesus and Living a Godly Life and Trusting in the Lord in these Hard times so our conversations are Edifying and Encouraging rather than get into any disagreement.
 
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Rainy

New Member
Hey Chris, thank you for your kind words and for a link :) I will take a look at it today.

... I have noticed some of the same things you have noticed about non pre-trib rapture people. Some of them seem to think that they need to go through the seven year tribulation period because they need to be "purified" in some way. It is as if they do not seem to think that Jesus' complete sacrifice on the Cross was good enough, that they need to do something to add to it. :doh: :ohno
Yes, that irritates me alot, too. I think it's some kind of selfish-ego thing. Very sad. About martyring in the time of Tribulation: some post-trib folks are telling us that we are "the scared" Christians, that make up tales about pre-trib Rapture to comfort our hearts in fear of coming persecution. And they are not scared like us and are ready to be killed in hands of Antichrist. This thing drives me nuts. I'm sure they feel very special at that moment. But many Christians were persecuted before our time, and I don't remember any christian Saints accusing their brothers and sisters: "Look, I was killed and you were not, I'm a better christian than you!". That's such a nonsence. But if it is their choise, let the God judge about that. Sorry maybe I was rude, but this thing grieves me very much.

anath, thank you :wave I'm happy that I can share my thoughts with you all here.

UCT, thank you brother. Yes, what a wonderful surprise would it be. All the Church will come up to Jesus and there will be an end to all divisions and arguing between us. Jesus, please come quickly!

Noah Cotterill, yes , that verse fits perfectly to what i saw. We are all not perfect, but sadly I saw the most hate on the post-trib side. :crying

readytogo, amen brother. That's right. I hope so, too. We should not argue, but react with love. Love can help to open spiritual eyes of every soul.

BuzzardHut, sorry BuzzardHut, i don't quite understand if you are talking to me or Chris :) I was talking in my first post about post-trib folks on internet, not on our site. :hug

IamPJ, thank you :) I'm glad i've found this forum.

nillapoet, hello and thank you brother, I agree with you. People argue about everything even if they are in the same Church. I'm from Sachsen-Anhalt.

mikalikat, thank you, it was just a rainy day when i registered on forum :lol: Tht's why i picked this pretty username. I cannot wait Jesus' coming, too. But we must be patient. He wants to save as many souls as possible. I wonder sometimes if He would came in 2012 I would be left behind as non-believer in that time. This thing very effectively taught me patience.

Hannah, hey Hannah and thank you :) I think it is a very dangerous thing - first you love Jesus and defend the faith, but in the next moment you are already hateful to your brothers and sisters, still thinking that you are defending the God's Word. That's a very dangerous line that we should avoid. I think it is a trick from Satan, who knows human's minds very well. I'm glad you have understanding with your Brothes and Sisters in Christ, who believe in post-trib Rapture. That is a very good example how to deal with different points of view inside the Church without hate and accusing each other. I wish that our Church was like that. Thank you Hannah, this example gave me hope. I hope that Holy Spirit will guide everybody on the right path, the path of our Lord.

Whoa that is a very long post :shocked Thank you very much for your answers and opinions dear friends. I would be glad to hear more, if you have what to say. Your answers really helped me already. I'm going to write a post in "Personal Testimony" to tell you how surprisingly fast i came to Jesus, and what strange causes led me to Him.

God bless you all, I'm praying for you. :ring:
 

BuzzardHut

Bird Mod
BuzzardHut, sorry BuzzardHut, i don't quite understand if you are talking to me or Chris :) I was talking in my first post about post-trib folks on internet, not on our site. :hug
I was just referring to this forum; it's a wild wild west out there.

It's hard finding a good balance between good doctrine and false doctrine. A lot of churches teach a post trib rapture and discussing it, as well as other beliefs, can bring hurt feelings. I think we need to take a stand on what we personally believe as truth. I'm still learning myself how to be lighter in my debates.
I need your prayers on this.

If I have been a bully to people then I apologize,
 
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twit

Well-Known Member
When our Lord does return, who's gonna cast the first stone and say...Lord, you're 7 years too early.

Our time is now, to live for Jesus. Hoping for tribulation so one can be martyred is folly. These brethren who believe such would have a more joyful and productive life in Christ if they just lived for Him, instead of hoping of being headless.

But then, they say, we're just scared to die for our Saviour. Funny, eh? Who on earth actually enjoys this planet, and where it's heading, enough to wanna live on it. Take me now! But there's work still to be done, rewards still to be earned and folk pulled from the fire; and it's up to us to do it.

We must pray for others who hold not our light. We must seek forgiveness for not shining as we should, especially when so much darkness is upon us.
 

Lujack Skylark

Well-Known Member
When our Lord does return, who's gonna cast the first stone and say...Lord, you're 7 years too early.

Our time is now, to live for Jesus. Hoping for tribulation so one can be martyred is folly. These brethren who believe such would have a more joyful and productive life in Christ if they just lived for Him, instead of hoping of being headless.
The anti-Christ blasphemies God and us when we are in heaven. (Revelation 13:6) These Christains should use their heads and open their eyes!
 

JC1949

Well-Known Member
Hello dear followers, this is my first post here. My name is Julia and I live in Germany. I came to Christ only about 3-4 months ago. But i really love Him, like I knew him all my life. And, like all of you, I like to read the Bible, especially His Words. Well, I know that the whole Bible is the Word of our God, but I especially like where Jesus speaks Himself, because it is a Truth that was said straight from God to the people, when He walked on the Earth. I find it amazing. Well, long story short, I was surprisingly lucky, that when i started to look up info about Jesus and Gospel in the internet, I've found very good videos and web sites, where the people were just telling the truth about Jesus, there were also links to special verses in the Bible, so you can better understand what they are talking about. I also found videos of Scottie (EternalRhythmFlow) on Youtube, i know many of you know him, too. Well, to the point now.

My point here is: people that believe in pre-trib Rapture are so bright and full of God's light. Their explanations and the way how they put it - so friendly and with love, reminds me purely Jesus himself. There is no anger in their words. There is no proud in their words. They do not scare you with "You dare to tamper the God's Word????" like some others. I enjoyed reading and watching videos about Christ, and salvation, and about the Rapture.

Then, after sometime, i decided to look what the post-trib believers say.And I found that many of them are full of something bad. They really want to be persecuted, and they deny the pre-trib Rapture for all us. But we all are brothers and sisters, how can they wish a persecution for us all, I thought. They are taking the hope from you away. It is hard to read their articles, because they leave you poor and in dirt, like you are still, after acception of Jesus a sinner - deserving a torture and death during the Tribulation. And i really don't like how they twist the Verses so they will fit like they want it. When i read about pre-Trib Rapture, it is logical. But the post-trib Rapture isn't logical to me. Why should we always watch for the Christ Return, if he will surely come after the Tribulation. What's the point of that, when everything predicted in the Bible will become true, and there will be millions of believers, that didn't believe before the Tribulation? And Jesus clearly said that - "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

I really dislike this division in our Flock. I don't like it how the post-trib believers are rude and hateful to others. It is not right.

How do you think, my dears, why such a division is taking now place in the Church, when the time is short? Do we have nothing to do but accuse each other and hate? Isn't it not enough now in the world?

God bless you each and everyone, the Light of the World. Let the Holy Spirit guide us.

PS. Please excuse me for my mistakes, English is not my first language. If a theme like this exists, let me now, i'll move my post there. My notebook is very old and i coudn't search through all the forum, I apologize.
Stay close in prayer and read the Bible....especially Paul,the Apostle of the Gentiles,and you will see that the Pre-tribulation doctrine is in line with The Gospel of Grace.....stay strong in Jesus..blessings :wave:wave:wave
 
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