Adolf Hitler in Heaven?

dimki

Member
To be in eternal torment, having done nothing particularly wrong in my earthly life, while the person who tormented and murdered me and millions more is in eternal paradise...something about that doesn't quite add up to me.

Hitler was raised Catholic, though he was quite deeply irreligious in general and rarely attended church. (Didn't like Christianity in general all that much either). But he had at least some idea of Jesus as Lord, even if it was heavily flawed. So him truly accepting Jesus (again, purely in theory) would not be too difficult.

A Jewish person, being hunted, tortured, kidnapped, thrown in camps, starved, mutilated (et cetera), might make them cling more to their faith for strength rather than think about turning to Christianity. Or maybe feel God had abandoned them, which, considering the extreme dehumanization they were going through, is probably not something one can blame them for.

I cannot seem to reconcile a God that would reward someone like Hitler for believing in Him, however sincerely, and simultaneously eternally punish (through fire and brimstone) the victims of that person.
 

Rocky Rivera

Well-Known Member
To be in eternal torment, having done nothing particularly wrong in my earthly life, while the person who tormented and murdered me and millions more is in eternal paradise...something about that doesn't quite add up to me.

Hitler was raised Catholic, though he was quite deeply irreligious in general and rarely attended church. (Didn't like Christianity in general all that much either). But he had at least some idea of Jesus as Lord, even if it was heavily flawed. So him truly accepting Jesus (again, purely in theory) would not be too difficult.

A Jewish person, being hunted, tortured, kidnapped, thrown in camps, starved, mutilated (et cetera), might make them cling more to their faith for strength rather than think about turning to Christianity. Or maybe feel God had abandoned them, which, considering the extreme dehumanization they were going through, is probably not something one can blame them for.

I cannot seem to reconcile a God that would reward someone like Hitler for believing in Him, however sincerely, and simultaneously eternally punish (through fire and brimstone) the victims of that person.
I used to have these kinds of thoughts as a non-Christian. Becoming a child of God opened my eyes to the fallacies of human philosophy, and how inadequate they were to understand the ways of God. Our first mistake is to think that our ways are fair and God is not. But we are thinking with fallible, sin-tainted minds and souls. Ergo, our ways our not perfect. What must be understood is that God's definition of fairness and our definition of fairness is not the same. God says that it is our ways that are unfair and His ways are fair, and that as high are the heavens above the Earth, so are His ways are higher than our ways, His thoughts are higher than our thoughts.

Therefore, computing it all together -- does God consider it fair that because our sin has been committed against an Immortal, Perfect Being (God), then we deserve to be cast into hellfire for all eternity? Yes. God says the soul that sins shall die. We even recognize this on a human level. For example, if you even talk about harming the president of the United States, you'll be arrested. Try that with any other head of state and you could be executed. If the punishment for our crimes are commensurate with the station and position of the human being we have wronged, who are we to deny the divine position and station of God Almighty? You might say that eternal torment for about sixty or seventy years of sinful living in unfair, but to put it another way, it takes just two seconds to murder a child, but two seconds in prison for the offender is hardly justice. Not to mention that in American prisons, inmates are afforded luxuries and pampered with amenities not given to most of the general civilian population.

Also computing it all together -- does God consider it fair that a perfect, innocent Man should die for our crimes against Divinity so we can be forgiven and go to Heaven? Yes! It also follows that God considers it fair for a sinful man to be forgiven on his deathbed for all crimes against Divinity despite a lifetime of sinful living should he / she accept God's one and only provision for salvation -- faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. What of the Nazi tormentors and their Jewish victims? Each and every human being has been given by God one way to be forgiven of their sins. Yet, what do they have to do with YOU? When it comes time for your appointment with the King, YOU not they will be on trial. People think they can do a better job than God regarding justice, but they cannot even run their own lives perfectly, much less the entire cosmos! Trust in Christ today, He will guarantee your salvation. God does not afflict men willingly, but He allows pain into their lives because He has a deliberate purpose to use the pain to make good out of it. Because He sees the future clearly, because He is all-powerful and all-knowing, and because He is all goodness we can definitely trust Him despite allowing us to go through the painful experiences of this fallen world. He will be with us through it, He will see us through it, and He will bring good out of it.
 

DanLMP

Well-Known Member
I cannot seem to reconcile a God that would reward someone like Hitler for believing in Him, however sincerely, and simultaneously eternally punish (through fire and brimstone) the victims of that person.
I agree that this is a difficult concept and hurdle for many people to get over in their understanding of God's judicial system.

As an analogous example perhaps this will help:

We humans live from the perspective of life on earth. we see all the low valleys and the high mountains of the physical world and of our world of sin. From God's frame of reference, He who sits so high above us, He sees the world of our sin as all one flat surface.

If Hitler or any other person who has sinned so greatly accepts the forgiveness offered to them by the sacrifice of Christ, they are not receiving a "reward", they are receiving grace, a pardon.

For those who choose not to accept God's forgiveness, they are not receiving punishment or anti-reward, they are being given the results of their choice.

Everyone in life is to some extent both a victim and an oppressor, from our human perspective, to lesser or greater amounts. From God's perspective, we are all the same in that we are all flawed and filled with sin.

So before we condemn the human that we easily see as having been a great oppressor of others, we need to look at our own selves and ask ourselves in what way have I failed my fellow Man? To God, by not achieving His level of perfection, we all have failed.

This may not seem like Justice to many, but for me, I want to be Judged by a God who will overlook my many failings as much as He overlooks the failings of others because of our acceptance of the sacrifice of Christ.
 

mattfivefour

Administrator
Staff member
If Hitler or any other person who has sinned so greatly accepts the forgiveness offered to them by the sacrifice of Christ, they are not receiving a "reward", they are receiving grace, a pardon.

For those who choose not to accept God's forgiveness, they are not receiving punishment or anti-reward, they are being given the results of their choice.

Everyone in life is to some extent both a victim and an oppressor, from our human perspective, to lesser or greater amounts. From God's perspective, we are all the same in that we are all flawed and filled with sin.

So before we condemn the human that we easily see as having been a great oppressor of others, we need to look at our own selves and ask ourselves in what way have I failed my fellow Man? To God, by not achieving His level of perfection, we all have failed.

This may not seem like Justice to many, but for me, I want to be Judged by a God who will overlook my many failings as much as He overlooks the failings of others because of our acceptance of the sacrifice of Christ.
Well said, Dan. :nod
 

Goodboy

Well-Known Member
To be in eternal torment, having done nothing particularly wrong in my earthly life, while the person who tormented and murdered me and millions more is in eternal paradise...something about that doesn't quite add up to me.

Hitler was raised Catholic, though he was quite deeply irreligious in general and rarely attended church. (Didn't like Christianity in general all that much either). But he had at least some idea of Jesus as Lord, even if it was heavily flawed. So him truly accepting Jesus (again, purely in theory) would not be too difficult.

A Jewish person, being hunted, tortured, kidnapped, thrown in camps, starved, mutilated (et cetera), might make them cling more to their faith for strength rather than think about turning to Christianity. Or maybe feel God had abandoned them, which, considering the extreme dehumanization they were going through, is probably not something one can blame them for.

I cannot seem to reconcile a God that would reward someone like Hitler for believing in Him, however sincerely, and simultaneously eternally punish (through fire and brimstone) the victims of that person.
Dimki, I can understand that it is very hard to understand how a horrible person (by the world's standards) can go to Heaven and a good person (by the world's standards) can go to hell. So I will give you something that I believe may help you.

What I am about to say I cannot backup from the bible and I certainly could be wrong, but here is how I am able to understand the justice of God's salvation plan. First of all Heaven is not like earth. There are numerous sins that you can commit on earth, however there is only one sin you can commit in Heaven which is the sin of pride or lack of submission to God. That is the sin that Satan committed and the only one that he could. You cannot steal in Heaven or kill in Heaven or take the power from someone or any other earthly sins, just the sin of pride.

So God's plan is that the only humans he will allow in Heaven are those who are not too prideful and are willing to submit to God. There are two things that keep a prideful person unwilling to submit to God from getting saved. One is the fact that it is a FREE GIFT, so you cannot be proud of your salvation so to speak. The other is the fact that God's word is primarily spread though other people. A proud person wants to either come up with the way to salvation on their own, or at least contribute to the process.

So what I am saying is to forget about all the sins someone can commit, other than the sin of pride and lack of submission. Now if Hitler was too prideful and unwilling to submit to God, then he will end up in Hell. Christ paid for all sins, but the sin of pride will keep one from choosing the FREE GIFT that Christ made available. For those who believe what I have stated, this also explains why there will be no future rebellion in Heaven. The prideful humans have already been routed out!

As I stated, I cannot prove this via bible verses, but I truly believe it to be the truth that was revealed to me. Not looking to convince anyone of this, so please don't try to debate what I have stated. If you don't believe what I have stated, that's totally fine and as I am human I could be wrong. It's just a prospective I have that I wanted to share. :hug



.
 

usoutpost31

Well-Known Member
To be in eternal torment, having done nothing particularly wrong in my earthly life, while the person who tormented and murdered me and millions more is in eternal paradise...something about that doesn't quite add up to me.

Hitler was raised Catholic, though he was quite deeply irreligious in general and rarely attended church. (Didn't like Christianity in general all that much either). But he had at least some idea of Jesus as Lord, even if it was heavily flawed. So him truly accepting Jesus (again, purely in theory) would not be too difficult.

A Jewish person, being hunted, tortured, kidnapped, thrown in camps, starved, mutilated (et cetera), might make them cling more to their faith for strength rather than think about turning to Christianity. Or maybe feel God had abandoned them, which, considering the extreme dehumanization they were going through, is probably not something one can blame them for.

I cannot seem to reconcile a God that would reward someone like Hitler for believing in Him, however sincerely, and simultaneously eternally punish (through fire and brimstone) the victims of that person.
I also have trouble reconciling Hitler in paradise, although not quite for the same reasons.

I believe God judges rulers of nations more stringently. They have more power, more responsibility, and more capacity to do good or evil then you or I. Take the chronology of Israel and Judah's kings. 1 Kings 16:25 records Omri as having done evil in the eyes of the Lord and "sinned more than all those before him". A few verses later, Ahab gets the same treatment. "did more evil in the eyes of the Lord than all those before him". Then skip all the way to the end to Hoshea, the last king of Israel, who did evil in the eyes of the Lord, but "not like the kings of Israel that preceded him". 2 Kings 14:3 speaks of Amaziah, king of Judah, who "did right in the eyes of the Lord, but not as his father David has done". The Bible makes this distinction, not just between the righteous and the wicked, but how they stood up to their predecessors.

If these is how the Lord judges rulers of a nation, how could he have seen Hitler?

Revelation 17-18 speaks of an evil world system, whose sins have "piled up to heaven", who will be paid back double for its actions, and whom Heaven rejoices over its destruction. Both the evil harlot and city of Bablyon were guilty of spilling the blood of the saints. Rev 17:6, 18:24. And both will be burned with fire. Nazi Germany was guilty of spilling the blood of the Jews, I would venture they were "drunk" in that same manner as the Harlot of Babylon, also. So come the judgment of the sheep and the goats of Matt 25, I can only imagine what awaits the rulers of the Third Reich.

Now that being said, rulers of corrupt nations can obtain the mercy of God through repentance. As when Jonah went to Nineveh. Or take Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4:28-37, whose payment for his arrogance was to be humbled and cut down before he eventually repented. Or Manasseh, probably the worst king of Judah, who offered his own son as.a human sacrifice, and filled Jerusalem end to end with innocent blood (2 Kings 21:16). Manasseh was taken off into captivity, with a hook through his nose. He would seem to be the least likely candidate imaginable, but he did repent(2 Chronicles 33:11-13).

Problem with Hitler is we have no indication that he repented. He loved power, lived for power, and would rather die than living with the shame of losing that power. He killed himself before he could experience a humbling. If he had cast himself on the mercy of God, he would've been saved, but "if through fire". 1 Cor 3:15.

Hitler was one of the most wicked, vicious men to ever walk the earth. Absent a statement of faith, or any reason at all to believe he would humble himself before God, I believe he is being repaid, in full, for his actions in life.
 

GotGrace

Well-Known Member
This is so true. God does not judge as we humans judge. We tend to keep going back to works and fruits...........
But, God hears a dying soul crying for salvation........we don't.......... and, we KNOW that He is merciful to forgive.
Just as He forgave us............ a lot of unsaved people are going to have a hard time dealing with this concept, tho.
They feel they "have lived a good life" - much better lives than Hitler, et al, for sure...........and, that they are more entitled
to enter heaven. Woe to them...........

I have always believed that we are going to be sooooo surprised to find out who is in heaven...........and, who is not.
Yes we are going to be surprised to find who is there and who is not.

When I have been up to bat to teach a women’s class I have explained that if the most horrendous serial killer truly repented and accepted Christ then he would be saved. In our human minds we want those bad people to be punished but God’s ways are higher than our ways. Thank goodness they are.
 

Sowen

Well-Known Member
Suppose I were to tell you that Adolf Hitler is in Heaven right now. Suppose (I did say suppose) I told you he accepted Jesus Christ as his Savior right before he died.
I’d praise God because another soul is not eternally dead and because it’s such a great testimony of God’s love, grace, and mercy.

Great post, brother, as it’s a reminder that God’s free gift of eternal life extends to whosoever will come, not whoever sinned less.

Hallelujah!
 

DanLMP

Well-Known Member
"It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all."

By far my favourite verse in the bible.
My suspection is that one reason that God chose out Saul/Paul for his ministry is because God knew what a powerful testimony it would make to have essentially a serial killer become an apostle of Jesus.

The idea being that if Paul, with all of his obvious sin, could be saved by Grace, then you or I can too.
 

ItIsFinished!

Well-Known Member
My suspection is that one reason that God chose out Saul/Paul for his ministry is because God knew what a powerful testimony it would make to have essentially a serial killer become an apostle of Jesus.

The idea being that if Paul, with all of his obvious sin, could be saved by Grace, then you or I can too.
I understand your line of thought .
Grace through faith...
Christ on the Cross.
 

Danielson

Well-Known Member
Suppose I were to tell you that Adolf Hitler is in Heaven right now. Suppose (I did say suppose) I told you he accepted Jesus Christ as his Savior right before he died.

Most Christians, at least the ones I have met would say no way!!! They would say someone like that does not deserve to go to Heaven. So I would say to them, well do you deserve to go to Heaven? Of course they will say no I don't, but I am not nearly as bad as Hitler. He really needs to burn in Hell forever!!! So I would say, based on his works I would totally agree with you. Are you saved by your works? They would hopefully reply no, I am save by grace. I would then say, OK can't Hitler be saved by grace, or does God have another standard for some? Don't know what they might say next, but you can see by the logic that Hitler could actually be in Heaven.

If I had to guess one way or the other, I would guess that we won't see Hitler in Heaven. That is only my guess though. I really have no idea who I might see in Heaven, as the requirement is so simple. So the thief on the cross was saved. Would he have been saved if he was a murderer? The correct answer is yes.

So let us not say who and who is not saved. Only God knows!!!
This is one of my main problems with my faith. I can be a monstrous person but I have time to apologise here quickly before my death and be forgiven. Meanwhile good, giving, loving people might not. I could go to heaven and hang with Hitler but my brother could burn in hell. It's hard issues for me to work around.
 

Goodboy

Well-Known Member
This is one of my main problems with my faith. I can be a monstrous person but I have time to apologise here quickly before my death and be forgiven. Meanwhile good, giving, loving people might not. I could go to heaven and hang with Hitler but my brother could burn in hell. It's hard issues for me to work around.
Don't worry, God has worked it out so only those who deserve to go to Heaven will get there and those who don't will end up in Hell.

Now before you start saying "That's not correct!" let me define the word "deserve" from God's viewpoint. Those who acknowledge God for who he is and accept his free gift of his son's sacrifice are those who deserve to go to Heaven. So per the bible, evil people (in their heart, not their actions) will not come to the light and accept God's free gift. Those who believe in what is right will come to the light and accept God's free gift.

Look at these bible verses below paying special attention to verses 19 through 21.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


What can be confusing is the word "doeth", which would seem to mean only ones actions. However, there are other passages that state that God looks at ones heart. This is why Jesus states that if you look at a women in lust you have committed adultery. Because that is how God sees it, even if you have not actually done it. The converse is also true, if your heart is about doing something good and it ends up bad, God still sees your actions as good.

Now let's consider the "good, giving, loving people" you speak of that you think may burn in Hell. Well if they are such good people in their heart, why would they not acknowledge God and accept his free gift? According to the bible, these people would accept his gift, unless they are really evil in their heart.

As far as Hitler, for all we know he may have had a demon making him do what he did. The demon could have left him before he died and he could have accepted Jesus Christ as his Savior at that point. Do I think that is the case? No, but it could be. Only God knows who is saved.

Hope this helps. :)
 
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This is one of my main problems with my faith. I can be a monstrous person but I have time to apologise here quickly before my death and be forgiven. Meanwhile good, giving, loving people might not. I could go to heaven and hang with Hitler but my brother could burn in hell. It's hard issues for me to work around.
It's a straw man "issue."
 

antitox

Well-Known Member
Take for example Manasseh, Hezekiah's son, who took the throne. He was as wicked as the worst of them. He spilled so much innocent blood and burned his sons as an offering that you'd think there was no hope. But, he ends up doing what no wicked king like that would do. After God had him taken away with "hooks and fetters" (think about that.....), hr gets placed in an Assyrian prison in Babylon. He actually repented in prison.......God puts him back on his throne in Jerusalem which is why his reign was as long as 55 yrs. He removed the idol worship and served the Lord from then on. He's the only truly wicked king I know of that really repented and turned around. Amazing to me.
 

Anewcreationinjesus

Well-Known Member
I recently read that Jeffrey Dahmer accepted Christ while in prison, he was a serial killer.... Then after that, a fellow prisoner murdered him...

I must confess I found it very hard to read his list of crimes....

If he indeed was born again, that would be one of the hugest testimonies of this generation....apparently some churched people were saying if Dahmer was in Heaven, they wouldn't want to be there...
 

TheRedeemed

Well-Known Member
apparently some churched people were saying if Dahmer was in Heaven, they wouldn't want to be there...
That’s the thing in all this though isn’t it, that God states He will remember our sin no more?

We will have all of our sin wiped away.

God will forget all of them forever, we will not remember them either, so doesn’t it stand to reason that no one else will remember/know of any other soul’s sin when we’re all there in the kingdom.

So if we ever bumped into Hitler, Napoleon, Stalin, Dahmer etc., all we will know about them is that they were saved and forgiven in the same manner that we were.

It would be likely then that instead of avoiding said personages, we would go up to them rather and say hi, nice to see you here, and isn’t it wonderful that regardless of what we both did in the flesh, it’s all forgotten by Him and us forever.
 
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