AC confirms covenant, rapture “timing” question

[BlessedBeliever]

It appears that the order of things to come is one world gov't will be officially established, followed by 10 kingdoms or Regions w/ governments. After the OWG is established and the 10 regions identified, another king will rise up (the antichrist) after the 10. This one, the antichrist will subdue 3 of the 10 kings in order to firm up dominion over the entire world.

So:

1st: OWG
2nd: Heads (kings) over 10 regions
3rd: antichrist becomes head of the OWG
4th: war to consolidate power over the 10 regions (3 kings subdued)

Daniel 7:23-27

23 “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it. 24 As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. 26 But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.’

Now I'm looking in Footsteps of the Messiah because I want to see what Arnold has to say about these verses.

(v. 23) On page 35 he indicates that the fourth kingdom devours (or rules) over the whole earth, something that no previous kingdom has ever achieved. For those previous 3 kingdoms, much of the earth wasn't even known.

(v. 23-24) On page 125-127 He calls the development of the OWG the 5th birth pang leading up to Tribulation. Right now the world is divided up into the western and eastern powers. Arnold expects the eastern powers to collapse, facilitating the move to the OWG. The exact form of government or how it is achieved, isn't known, but it is for sure that it will come to pass. He says the 6th birth pang is the division of the OWG into 10 kingdoms with a ruler for each one. Beginning before Tribulation, the 10 kingdom stage will continue into the middle of Tribulation. Following the division of the world into 10 kingdoms, the antichrist will begin his rise to power. 2 Thes 2:1-3 indicates the antichrist will be revealed at some point after the 10 kingdoms are established. Arnold calls this the 7th birth pang before Tribulation. Because Tribulation begins with the signing of the seven-year covenant between Israel and the antichrist, it is necessary for the antichrist to have sufficient political power to sign such a covenant.

(v. 24) On page 244-245 Arnold seems to indicate that the antichrist's gaining political control over the world could take some time. Rev 17:12-13 is useful to estimate the chronology of when the 3 kings will be put down, and it doesn't appear to be towards the beginning of Tribulation or before Tribulation begins. Arnold says that the antichrist eventually subdues the entire world politically with the exception of Jordan.

It is possible then that the Bride of Christ could see the formation of the OWG in whatever form it ultimately takes, and the division of the world into 10 kingdoms before we are raptured, but the rapture is imminent and can happen anytime between now and prior to the official beginning of Tribulation.

When you look at previous actions of God, and two come to mind immediately: Sodom and Gomorrah, and The Flood, in both cases the Lord took those He was going to spare pretty much at the last possible moment. Lot hightailed it out of there just in time, and Noah didn't have any time to waste after he completed the ark. There are probably quite a few other examples of similar timing in the Bible. Looking at the timing of those previous two events, it's very possible the Church will be here to see more than most of us would like to.

There is no reason to fear though. We're already going through some very insane times as world leaders of the west seem intent on destroying the very fabric of the nation-states they're attached to for their purposes, which while those purposes may seem worthwhile to those leaders, they are in fact nefarious and will most likely lead the world into the end times govmint. In most parts of the world Christians have already experienced horrible persecution. If it comes to us know that the Holy Spirit will give you everything you need to pass through it if you're saved. If you don't know Jesus Christ as your personal savior, I encourage you to invite Him into your life. He died on a cross to pay for your sins. It is a gift you need only accept to be free in Christ.

if you have the rapture preceding all of this…..count me in 100%……if you have the rapture following all of this, I won’t be able to come over and play.

BB

 

[Tall Timbers]

if you have the rapture preceding all of this…..count me in 100%……if you have the rapture following all of this, I won’t be able to come over and play.

BB

Since the Rapture can happen any time but will happen before the antichrist is revealed visavis his 7 year agreement with Israel, we could potentially see everything up to but not including the unmasking of the antichrist which is the beginning of Tribulation.

So, you should come over and play anyway. No need to concern ourselves overmuch with these things, it's just good to know what we might possibly face before the Rapture.

 

[BlessedBeliever]

Since the Rapture can happen any time but will happen before the antichrist is revealed visavis his 7 year agreement with Israel, we could potentially see everything up to but not including the unmasking of the antichrist which is the beginning of Tribulation.

So, you should come over and play anyway. No need to concern ourselves overmuch with these things, it's just good to know what we might possibly face before the Rapture.

Honestly

it's just good to know what we might possibly face before the Rapture.

Like you, I really couldn’t care less about seeing or knowing the AC….but yeah, I suppose some who are watching and searching very closely for this kind of thing might have a pretty good suspicion.

As for me….I’m making sure my ears aren’t plugged so I can hear that trumpet call and His voice calling me up….

 

[Andy C]

I don’t think so. And here is how I based my answer ……..if the rapture is tomorrow, would we know who the bloke is? No….so that is how I came up with my answer.

Yes, you certainly could be right. However, as the time for the rapture draws near, we will see the globalist working harder than ever to get their OWG up and running. As they get closer to fulfilling their goals, we could still be here and see a man start to draw global attention.

I have watched several prophecy conferences lately, listened to all the end times teachers we all quote on this forum, and none of them, including myself believe the church will still be here when the final beast system is in place. The final beast system cannot be functional with the Holy Spirit/church still here.

 

[paul289]

Possible scenario maybe…..This could play out shortly after the covenant of peace being confirmed, when many will be saying, “thank God for MidEast peace finally”……and then boom, the 4 Horsemen are released. And as we know, the rider of the 2nd horse takes away peace….so wars could break out. I suppose it’s possible the surrounding Islamic nations aren’t too happy watching Israel rebuild their temple, especially if it’s on the Temple Mount. But I still hold to the Gog War BEFORE the Peace Covenant, and that this War causes the peace covenant, rather than the opposite.

Daniel 11 describes a series of wars that occur at the time of the end, and the first few verses, 2-13, will occur during the first 3.5 years. I suspect the King of the South and the King of the North will be the Saudi family and the Antichrist, respectively, but I'm not dogmatic about any of it.

 

[Kerbluey]

Andy Woods mentioned this in a recent PPOV. He believes the Restrainer is restraining the rise of the AC, so that means we won’t see it. I hope he’s right! I’d rather be watching from the balcony.

 

[Andy C]

Andy Woods mentioned this in a recent PPOV. He believes the Restrainer is restraining the rise of the AC, so that means we won’t see it. I hope he’s right! I’d rather be watching from the balcony.

I cant see how it could go any other way.

 

[Chris]

I think when the rapture happens the spotlight will shine on the AC as he will then begin his 7 year lost cause campaign.

 

[RandallB]

Can we all agree that since:
Ezekiel 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my Wrath (orgēn SG#3709(LXX)) have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel.
It's stating that the Ezek 38-39 wars will involve the Lord's Wrath.

Since we are Guaranteed that we will not be subject to the Lord's Wrath (orgēn SG#3709(LXX)) ---
And therefore agree that there will be Zero Christians involved in areas that the Lord's Wrath is falling on?

 

[RandallB]

Dr Ice says:
"If one were to compile a survey about 25 years ago of the timing views of futurists concerning Ezekiel 38 and 39 the leading view would have clearly been the one that this event will take place around the middle of the tribulation. Leading prophecy teachers at that time clearly held this view such as Hal Lindsey, John Walvoord, J. Dwight Pentecost, and Charles Ryrie. However, I would say that today the most widely held view among prophecy teachers today would be the pretribulational view of Gog and Magog. Some who hold this view include Chuck Smith, Chuck Missler, Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Randall Price, Tim LaHaye, and Joel Rosenberg ( & Dr Ice). "

There is a 7 year period after Ezek 39 for the burning of weapons. Israel will be fleeing the AC after the Mid-Trib. Several noted bible scholars (Dr. Fruchtenbaum, Dr Ice, et al) see that Israel would not be able to burn weapons while they are fleeing during the 2nd half of trib. They see this as indicating that Ezek 39 must end at least 7 years before the Mid-Trib or at least 3.5 years before Trib.

 

[ItIsFinished!]

Dr Ice says:
"If one were to compile a survey about 25 years ago of the timing views of futurists concerning Ezekiel 38 and 39 the leading view would have clearly been the one that this event will take place around the middle of the tribulation. Leading prophecy teachers at that time clearly held this view such as Hal Lindsey, John Walvoord, J. Dwight Pentecost, and Charles Ryrie. However, I would say that today the most widely held view among prophecy teachers today would be the pretribulational view of Gog and Magog. Some who hold this view include Chuck Smith, Chuck Missler, Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Randall Price, Tim LaHaye, and Joel Rosenberg ( & Dr Ice). "

There is a 7 year period after Ezek 39 for the burning of weapons. Israel will be fleeing the AC after the Mid-Trib. Several noted bible scholars (Dr. Fruchtenbaum, Dr Ice, et al) see that Israel would not be able to burn weapons while they are fleeing. They see this as indicating that Ezek 39 must end at least 7 years before the Mid-Trib or at least 3.5 years before Trib.

I personally 100% believe Ezk. 38-39 will be after the Rapture.
I believe this is what the Scriptures reveal.

 

[RandallB]

Ezek 38-39 nations
Magog = Modern Day Russia
Persia = Modern Day Iran
Cush = Modern Day Ethiopia
Put = Modern Day Libya
Gomer = Modern Day Eastern Europe


Since Ezek 38-39 declares that the Lord's Wrath is falling on the earth then there can be zero Christians in the areas that are effected by Ezek 38-39.

The Lord’s Promises of “No Wrath for the Bride Ever - Zero-Nada-Zilch” still stand. Where ever you see the Lord’s Wrath falling on an area in scripture you can be certain that there are NO Christians in that area. Evacuation, Extermination by satan’s sock puppets (Persecution), or Rapture are all candidates for the method that the Bride is totally missing from that area where His Wrath strikes. (And there is NO Partial Rapture.)

 

[ItIsFinished!]

Ezek 38-39 nations
Magog = Modern Day Russia
Persia = Modern Day Iran
Cush = Modern Day Ethiopia
Put = Modern Day Libya
Gomer = Modern Day Eastern Europe


Since Ezek 38-39 declares that the Lord's Wrath is falling on the earth then there can be zero Christians in the areas that are effected by Ezek 38-39.

The Lord’s Promises of “No Wrath for the Bride Ever - Zero-Nada-Zilch” still stand. Where ever you see the Lord’s Wrath falling on an area in scripture you can be certain that there are NO Christians in that area. Evacuation, Extermination by satan’s sock puppets (Persecution), or Rapture are all candidates for the method that the Bride is totally missing from that area where His Wrath strikes. (And there is NO Partial Rapture.)

Yes. Digging the zero- Nada- zilch in regards to NO wrath against the Bride.
I 100% AGREE.

 

[RandallB]

The Ezek 38-39 nations are coming to “take plunder and to take booty” from the “people gathered from the nations” (Israel after 1948). These nations’ armies are destroyed by the Lord in the Mountains of Israel. (This is NOT Armageddon in which ALL nations attack Israel at the end of the Trib nor is it the Gog / Magog battle of Rev 20 which is at the end of the Millennial Kingdom.)

Ezek 39:22 & 23 state that there will be no question as to Who God really is... Will really smack any Islam that is left such that there will be a great effort in the world to make sure Israel is going to be satisfied with the territory that they have just conquered. This will be the impetus for the world (& AC) to enforce a treaty that allows Israel to build their temple so that they can worship their God just like they used to. Israel will recognize God for who He was to them.... their old testament relationship and they will need a Temple for that... AND Here is the AC who they will proclaim to be their messiah to conquer... Until he goes into the Temple and declares himself to be god... Isreal will cry "OH NO Not Again... " As they are dashing to Petra.

Notice that ZERO of the countries immediately surrounding Israel are mentioned in the attacking force of Ezek 38-39. It does not seem possible that those Palestinians, Gaza, Syria, Jordanians, and others currently hating on Israel would pass up the opportunity to attack along with a major force such as this one…. Unless something really devastating has happened to them first.... And what about that Betach thing???

 

[alisani]

I have no doubt we'll see persecution and may get glimpses of what is to come.

I have experienced many events in life that prior to, I would have never thought it possible I could survive, much less thrive and find peace and purpose through. I have been in situations where God commanded me and enabled me to act in such a way that, in my flesh, I could never accomplish without His grace and strength.

Whatever degree of pain or persecution is ahead, no matter what evil we are called to witness and endure, any and all who know Jesus as Savior will find that same strength and grace.

I hope to avoid the events discussed in this post, but if not, then I know two things: 1. God will not forsake me. 2. I can endure all things in Christ who strengthens me.

I have full confidence in God's promise to help me live, and die if necessary, having fought the good fight, having finished the race, and having kept the faith.

 

[ItIsFinished!]

I think when the rapture happens the spotlight will shine on the AC as he will then begin his 7 year lost cause campaign.

Amen!
Lost cause campaign INDEED.

 

[RedRx]

My question is related to the third temple construction related to the timing of the Rapture. My assumption has always been that the third temple needed to be built first. My reason was that the Abomination of Desolation had to happen in the temple so no temple meant no Rapture and no Tribulation.

But the more I read about all the preparations that have already been done regarding the construction of the third temple the more I think that it could be built in 3.5 years and be ready for the midpoint of the Tribulation if the Rapture did happen before it was built. It could even be a part of the treaty with the AC that allows for its construction.

Having said that if the third temple isn’t built by the time of the Rapture then will there be enough people left behind that want it built for this to still happen in a timely manner. My mind goes into a loop of thinking yes the temple must be built first to no it doesn’t have to be built.

I know I shouldn’t worry about it but my initial thinking was that the third temple was an excellent sign that the Rapture was going to happen soon. No temple means no Abomination of Desolation. It’s something easy and very specific to look for to signify coming events. Now though I’m not so sure.

My question to all of you is this: does the third temple need to be completed prior to the Rapture or is there a reasonable scenario where it isn’t completed but the Rapture can still occur and it will still be built in time for the Abomination of Desolation? What do you think?

 

[ItIsFinished!]

My question is related to the third temple construction related to the timing of the Rapture. My assumption has always been that the third temple needed to be built first. My reason was that the Abomination of Desolation had to happen in the temple so no temple meant no Rapture and no Tribulation.

But the more I read about all the preparations that have already been done regarding the construction of the third temple the more I think that it could be built in 3.5 years and be ready for the midpoint of the Tribulation if the Rapture did happen before it was built. It could even be a part of the treaty with the AC that allows for its construction.

Having said that if the third temple isn’t built by the time of the Rapture then will there be enough people left behind that want it built for this to still happen in a timely manner. My mind goes into a loop of thinking yes the temple must be built first to no it doesn’t have to be built.

I know I shouldn’t worry about it but my initial thinking was that the third temple was an excellent sign that the Rapture was going to happen soon. No temple means no Abomination of Desolation. It’s something easy and very specific to look for to signify coming events. Now though I’m not so sure.

My question to all of you is this: does the third temple need to be completed prior to the Rapture or is there a reasonable scenario where it isn’t completed but the Rapture can still occur and it will still be built in time for the Abomination of Desolation? What do you think?

Nothing has to happen for the Rapture to happen.
So the Third Temple doesn't need to be completed before.
No one knows when the Third Temple will be built.
There is alot of talk about it however.
And as far as I know , all 5 red heifers still qualify.

 

[Tall Timbers]

My question is related to the third temple construction related to the timing of the Rapture. My assumption has always been that the third temple needed to be built first. My reason was that the Abomination of Desolation had to happen in the temple so no temple meant no Rapture and no Tribulation.

But the more I read about all the preparations that have already been done regarding the construction of the third temple the more I think that it could be built in 3.5 years and be ready for the midpoint of the Tribulation if the Rapture did happen before it was built. It could even be a part of the treaty with the AC that allows for its construction.

Having said that if the third temple isn’t built by the time of the Rapture then will there be enough people left behind that want it built for this to still happen in a timely manner. My mind goes into a loop of thinking yes the temple must be built first to no it doesn’t have to be built.

I know I shouldn’t worry about it but my initial thinking was that the third temple was an excellent sign that the Rapture was going to happen soon. No temple means no Abomination of Desolation. It’s something easy and very specific to look for to signify coming events. Now though I’m not so sure.

My question to all of you is this: does the third temple need to be completed prior to the Rapture or is there a reasonable scenario where it isn’t completed but the Rapture can still occur and it will still be built in time for the Abomination of Desolation? What do you think?

It won't be Believers building the 3rd Temple. It does not need to be completed prior to the Rapture. There is nothing that need occur before the Rapture. I have no doubt it will be built in time.

 

[katt]

I believe the temple will be built after the Psalm 83 war, which will totally drive the countries in the Ezekiel 38 prophecy insane, thus the coalition is formed and the hook is activated, causing all those involved to head for Israel and their destiny with God.