AC confirms covenant, rapture “timing” question

Kerbluey

Well-Known Member
I’m not sure why this has never occurred to me, but if the start of the tribulation is the AC confirming a covenant we could theoretically be here for his rise to power. If he’s powerful enough to confirm and enforce a covenant like this he’s at the top of the political food chain even if he’s not in the public eye yet. We could see the whole thing coming into creation…..NWO, the players jockeying for position, etc. The world wide tyranny. :unsure2:unsure2:unsure2 I can’t say I’m very happy about this. I have a lifelong fear of persecution thanks to my oddball reading tastes when I was a kid (Christian persecution books). I’m hoping it’s the disappearance of bajillions of people that kicks off the whole AC rise to power and we just watch from heaven.

Also, I’m assuming this covenant deal will be made behind closed doors long before the peasants are made aware. I’m going with the secret confirmation as the start of the tribulation, not the public announcement.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
With how late I think the hour is, I don't doubt the AC is already out there somewhere.
Agree. If, as we all believe the Day of the Lord is coming soon, the AC is alive and well, and probably blending in with the globalists community.
As the OWG comes in to play, he will already have some (probably lower level) level of leadership, but will be primed by the dark one to make all the right moves to seize the dark reigns of power. He will have the leadership the left behind crowd will crave.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
It appears that the order of things to come is one world gov't will be officially established, followed by 10 kingdoms or Regions w/ governments. After the OWG is established and the 10 regions identified, another king will rise up (the antichrist) after the 10. This one, the antichrist will subdue 3 of the 10 kings in order to firm up dominion over the entire world.

So:

1st: OWG
2nd: Heads (kings) over 10 regions
3rd: antichrist becomes head of the OWG
4th: war to consolidate power over the 10 regions (3 kings subdued)

Daniel 7:23-27

23 “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it. 24 As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. 26 But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.’

Now I'm looking in Footsteps of the Messiah because I want to see what Arnold has to say about these verses.

(v. 23) On page 35 he indicates that the fourth kingdom devours (or rules) over the whole earth, something that no previous kingdom has ever achieved. For those previous 3 kingdoms, much of the earth wasn't even known.

(v. 23-24) On page 125-127 He calls the development of the OWG the 5th birth pang leading up to Tribulation. Right now the world is divided up into the western and eastern powers. Arnold expects the eastern powers to collapse, facilitating the move to the OWG. The exact form of government or how it is achieved, isn't known, but it is for sure that it will come to pass. He says the 6th birth pang is the division of the OWG into 10 kingdoms with a ruler for each one. Beginning before Tribulation, the 10 kingdom stage will continue into the middle of Tribulation. Following the division of the world into 10 kingdoms, the antichrist will begin his rise to power. 2 Thes 2:1-3 indicates the antichrist will be revealed at some point after the 10 kingdoms are established. Arnold calls this the 7th birth pang before Tribulation. Because Tribulation begins with the signing of the seven-year covenant between Israel and the antichrist, it is necessary for the antichrist to have sufficient political power to sign such a covenant.

(v. 24) On page 244-245 Arnold seems to indicate that the antichrist's gaining political control over the world could take some time. Rev 17:12-13 is useful to estimate the chronology of when the 3 kings will be put down, and it doesn't appear to be towards the beginning of Tribulation or before Tribulation begins. Arnold says that the antichrist eventually subdues the entire world politically with the exception of Jordan.

It is possible then that the Bride of Christ could see the formation of the OWG in whatever form it ultimately takes, and the division of the world into 10 kingdoms before we are raptured, but the rapture is imminent and can happen anytime between now and prior to the official beginning of Tribulation.

When you look at previous actions of God, and two come to mind immediately: Sodom and Gomorrah, and The Flood, in both cases the Lord took those He was going to spare pretty much at the last possible moment. Lot hightailed it out of there just in time, and Noah didn't have any time to waste after he completed the ark. There are probably quite a few other examples of similar timing in the Bible. Looking at the timing of those previous two events, it's very possible the Church will be here to see more than most of us would like to.

There is no reason to fear though. We're already going through some very insane times as world leaders of the west seem intent on destroying the very fabric of the nation-states they're attached to for their purposes, which while those purposes may seem worthwhile to those leaders, they are in fact nefarious and will most likely lead the world into the end times govmint. In most parts of the world Christians have already experienced horrible persecution. If it comes to us know that the Holy Spirit will give you everything you need to pass through it if you're saved. If you don't know Jesus Christ as your personal savior, I encourage you to invite Him into your life. He died on a cross to pay for your sins. It is a gift you need only accept to be free in Christ.
 
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Andy C

Well-Known Member
I’m not sure why this has never occurred to me, but if the start of the tribulation is the AC confirming a covenant we could theoretically be here for his rise to power. If he’s powerful enough to confirm and enforce a covenant like this he’s at the top of the political food chain even if he’s not in the public eye yet. We could see the whole thing coming into creation…..NWO, the players jockeying for position, etc. The world wide tyranny. :unsure2:unsure2:unsure2 I can’t say I’m very happy about this. I have a lifelong fear of persecution thanks to my oddball reading tastes when I was a kid (Christian persecution books). I’m hoping it’s the disappearance of bajillions of people that kicks off the whole AC rise to power and we just watch from heaven.

Also, I’m assuming this covenant deal will be made behind closed doors long before the peasants are made aware. I’m going with the secret confirmation as the start of the tribulation, not the public announcement.
What I often think about as the time gets closer, will the church have any idea on who is the AC? We know from scripture that he wont be known before the church is gone, but that does not mean someone wont look mighty suspicious as a candidate for the AC.

Keep in mind that forum rules prohibit speculating on who is the AC, I just posted this as my thinking out loud.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
It appears that the order of things to come is one world gov't will be officially established, followed by 10 kingdoms or Regions w/ governments. After the OWG is established and the 10 regions identified, another king will rise up (the antichrist) after the 10. This one, the antichrist will subdue 3 of the 10 kings in order to firm up dominion over the entire world.

So:

1st: OWG
2nd: Heads (kings) over 10 regions
3rd: antichrist becomes head of the OWG
4th: war to consolidate power over the 10 regions (3 kings subdued)

Daniel 7:23-27

23 “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it. 24 As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. 26 But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.’

Now I'm looking in Footsteps of the Messiah because I want to see what Arnold has to say about these verses.

(v. 23) On page 35 he indicates that the fourth kingdom devours (or rules) over the whole earth, something that no previous kingdom has ever achieved. For those previous 3 kingdoms, much of the earth wasn't even known.

(v. 23-24) On page 125-127 He calls the development of the OWG the 5th birth pang leading up to Tribulation. Right now the world is divided up into the western and eastern powers. Arnold expects the eastern powers to collapse, facilitating the move to the OWG. The exact form of government or how it is achieved, isn't known, but it is for sure that it will come to pass. He says the 6th birth pang is the division of the OWG into 10 kingdoms with a ruler for each one. Beginning before Tribulation, the 10 kingdom stage will continue into the middle of Tribulation. Following the division of the world into 10 kingdoms, the antichrist will begin his rise to power. 2 Thes 2:1-3 indicates the antichrist will be revealed at some point after the 10 kingdoms are established. Arnold calls this the 7th birth pang before Tribulation. Because Tribulation begins with the signing of the seven-year covenant between Israel and the antichrist, it is necessary for the antichrist to have sufficient political power to sign such a covenant.

(v. 24) On page 244-245 Arnold seems to indicate that the antichrist's gaining political control over the world could take some time. Rev 17:12-13 is useful to estimate the chronology of when the 3 kings will be put down, and it doesn't appear to be towards the beginning of Tribulation or before Tribulation begins. Arnold says that the antichrist eventually subdues the entire world politically with the exception of Jordan.

It is possible then that the Bride of Christ could see the formation of the OWG in whatever form it ultimately takes, and the division of the world into 10 kingdoms before we are raptured, but the rapture is imminent and can happen anytime between now and prior to the official beginning of Tribulation.

When you look at previous actions of God, and two come to mind immediately: Sodom and Gomorrah, and The Flood, in both cases the Lord took those He was going to spare pretty much at the last possible moment. Lot hightailed it out of there just in time, and Noah didn't have any time to waste after he completed the ark. There are probably quite a few other examples of similar timing in the Bible. Looking at the timing of those previous two events, it's very possible the Church will be here to see more than most of us would like to.

There is no reason to fear though. We're already going through some very insane times as world leaders of the west seem intent on destroying the very fabric of the nation-states they're attached to for their purposes, which while those purposes may seem worthwhile to those leaders, they are in fact nefarious and will most likely lead the world into the end times govmint. In most parts of the world Christians have already experienced horrible persecution. If it comes to us know that the Holy Spirit will give you everything you need to pass through it if you're saved. If you don't know Jesus Christ as your personal savior, I encourage you to invite Him into your life. He died on a cross to pay for your sins. It is a gift you need only accept to be free in Christ.
Its interesting you posted this as I read all the same from his book this morning. Of course I was searching for his views on the timing of the OWG in relation to the church still being here, and he does not directly comment on that, other than to say the OWG is before the tribulation.

Good sections you quoted as Arnold is an excellent prophecy teacher and his book is a must to have.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
It would be sad for Watchers to freak out when certain things came to pass that they did not expect to be here for.
It would also be sad to have a bunker mentality because of fear of groups like the WEF.

I like to be emotionally prepared for whatever. Im mostly convinced we will be gone before the OWG, but I cant be 100 percent certain based on scripture.

Regardless of ones view, Im thinking we will find out real soon, and the sooner the better.

If it turns out we will be here for the fully functional OWG, and heavy persecution begins, I invite all to head to a certain address to be released at a later date for Cheyenne WY. BYOGAB - Bring your own guns and beans….
 

Kerbluey

Well-Known Member
What got me thinking about this is that horrific marriage law they’re intent on passing.

Andy, I was wondering the same after realizing how much we may see.

TT, very interesting, thank you for all that. I too had thought of how God seems to wait till the last minute.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
If it turns out we will be here for the fully functional OWG,

I don't think we'll see a OWG that has subdued the entire world, because the subduing of the three recalcitrant kings doesn't occur until sometime during Tribulation. Hopefully we won't see anymore of it than what we see now, but we might see the OWG and the division into 10 kingdoms... but without all the players necessarily being cooperative about it.

Some thing the US will be one of those recalcitrant kings. I don't think that will be the case as the US has been one of the world's main players in dragging us into the direction of a OWG for decades. No, our govmint will most likely be happy to enslave the citizens of the US to a global sovereign :(.

I can picture China being a recalcitrant king, not Russia because I expect them to be wasted by Eze 38. I don't really have a thought as to who the other 2 reluctant kings might be. Maybe South America since their wealthy have quietly had there way since the Americas were "discovered". They might not appreciate giving up their power. They'd be pretty easy to subdue, I think. Even Brazil probably wouldn't be able to do too much about it.
 

Dragontiger777

Well-Known Member
What got me thinking about this is that horrific marriage law they’re intent on passing.

Andy, I was wondering the same after realizing how much we may see.

TT, very interesting, thank you for all that. I too had thought of how God seems to wait till the last minute.
Once all things come passing then there will be chaos in all countries as party. Cause the Christian stand up what their believe and strong will for the God
 

Wally

Choose your words carefully...
It would seem satan likes to counterfeit much of what is God and His Word.

I would expect a counterfeit John to proceed the AC. John was jailed and executed. So it would be keeping to form if some individual rose to power, performed great leadership and exhibit many attributes of the AC, only to be replaced-jailed-executed by the actual beast. So we could indeed see the "teaser" which would probably be another let down for believers since we already read the Book.
 

Dan the Elder

Active Member
2 Thess. 2:1-4 (GNV) "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the comming of our Lord Iesus Christ, and by our assembling vnto him, That ye be not suddenly mooued from your minde, nor troubled neither by spirit, nor by worde, nor by letter, as it were from vs, as though the day of Christ were at hand. Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition, Which is an aduersarie, and exalteth him selfe against all that is called God, or that is worshipped: so that he doeth sit as God in the Temple of God, shewing him selfe that he is God.

The Geneva Bible [1560] is one of the most historically significant translations of the Bible into English, preceding the King James Version by 51 years. This version of the Bible is significant because, for the first time, a mechanically printed, mass-produced Bible was made available directly to the general public

The word for "falling away" is "apostasia", which can be translated as "falling away or departing". As you can see the earlier version translated it as "departing" -- Why? If you look at the whole context of 1st, 2nd, Thessalonians; its all about the return of Christ and "Our assembling unto Him". Paul does talk about "apostasy of the church" in his letters to Timothy; but here its about His return.

I believe the "confirmation of the covenant with Israel" will be his "revealing" and the "Body of Christ (The Church - Bride) will be gone. Sure, we may "speculate" as to "possible candidates" but it won't really matter. I agree he is probably primed and waiting in the shadows for that moment!

God Bless, Dan
 

Kelpe

Active Member
I listened to "When You See These Things" on YT this morning (Jack Hibbs, Calvary Chapel Chino Hills) and it's excellent. I love to listen to Pastor Jack among others. There is a lot happening right now in the world.

One thought - wouldn't we be a "fly in the ointment" if we are still here when the AC starts rising, and the 10 Kings emerge? The true church will recognize and hinder the plans of the OWG. Another thought, that might be why they are glad when we disappear, because we are messing up their plans. Just some random thoughts today.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
One thought - wouldn't we be a "fly in the ointment" if we are still here when the AC starts rising, and the 10 Kings emerge? The true church will recognize and hinder the plans of the OWG. Another thought, that might be why they are glad when we disappear. Just some random thoughts tod

A lot of Christians are completely in the dark on what the Bible says about the end times. Only a portion of the Church are Watchers who pay attention to end times prophecy. Additionally, within Christian communities there are many different non-Biblical theories about that teach a different ending from what the Bible teaches. I think that as we get closer to the end, Christians will become more heavily persecuted. In the USA some of the things we believe are considered hateful by the mainstream. How long until we're considered criminals for being unwilling to conform? I think the bulk of our impeding will be through prayer.
 

lismore

Well-Known Member
TT, very interesting, thank you for all that. I too had thought of how God seems to wait till the last minute.
Hello! As TT said The Lord seems to wait for the last minute for the evacuation, but the warnings come a good deal beforehand. Noah was given many years to build the Ark, in Genesis 18 Abraham is told that the angels are on the way to Sodom and Gomorrah before it is destroyed. From the bible we can see what the final warnings are before the return of the Lord. As TT also said one warning sign that is obvious in our day is that biblical literacy is declining, in society and in the church. Even 'Christians' often take more of their guidance from celebrity preachers and denominations than from the word. Jesus warned of deception in the last days, those who will be deceived are those who know nothing of the truth or even how to find it. God Bless :)
 
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