A few words about what God requires of you.

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
You all may have noticed over the past few days an uptick in posts promoting some form of works or legalism. They began with the sign up of a few new members who may or may not be connected. (If not, it's been quite a coincidence.) We all know from the deep study of Scripture that there is no place for works in the gaining or the keeping of our salvation. It is all by faith and faith alone. Not faith as some force or energy or belief system, but specific faith in Jesus Christ—who He is and what He did—and particularly in what He did at Calvary. While most of us know this, these people have raised points that need to be discussed.

I want to go on record as saying I understand the impetus toward right living. Holiness is what we are called to. But while I admire and sympathize and entirely agree with the legalist and the holiness people who correctly discern that we should live holy, I cannot agree in the least with their idea as to how we do that—a position I draw exclusively from Scripture. As you have frequently heard me say, "Holiness preachers have the correct diagnosis; but the wrong prescription." They prescribe the wrong cure. Holiness is a product of the working of the Holy Spirit in us as we yield to Him, not a product of our own efforts. When we get to Heaven we will have NOTHING of which to boast. Were we able to overcome by our own efforts, to live holier than the next person by our own efforts, we would be able—with the Pharisee who in fact did live in utter outward holiness—to look at the one falling short and know that we were better. And when we arrive in Heaven we would be able to take our crown and say *I* EARNED this. But nothing could be further from the truth.

No man can—or will ever be able to—glory in God's Presence. Yet, if I COULD keep all of the commandments, I would be able to glory for I would be a perfect man. But there has only ever been ONE perfect man—and His name is Jesus. Only the Christ, the Messiah, God Himself in the flesh could make such a claim and be worthy of such glory. I am RECKONED to be perfect because His perfection is imputed to me by God in His grace, through my faith in Jesus and all that He did for me on the Cross. There is absolutely NOTHING that He left unfinished there. This is the plain teaching of Scripture. And the substance of my faith. Thus nothing need be added. Nothing COULD be added. It is done! Everything. All that I could ever need for my salvation, my sanctification, and my glorification. And all that you or anybody else could ever need, as well.

Legalism is a very enticing thing. It gives us a feeling of having done something. It allows us to consider ourselves as having done something worthy, something pleasing to God. But God is pleased—WELL pleased, for that matter—in only one thing: His Son. We ourselves please God when we order our lives IN Christ. Faith pleases God. And it alone among men is accepted by Him. As Paul successfully argues in Romans and Galatians, God's righteousness was imputed to man by faith, long before the law was given. He points out that long after Abraham was reckoned righteous by faith the law was given by Moses as a school teacher to lead men to Christ. You see the law showed man his sin and then necessitated him expiating that sin. And the only way to expiate it was through the sacrifice of a living creature. Thus the principle of substitutionary sacrifice was inculcated in mankind. At least, to those who were given God's Word to preserve. Unfortunately, somewhere along the way, the religious leaders lost sight of that fact and had elevated the law and its exculpatory rituals to the position of supremacy over man and the ultimate means of pleasing God. The prophets, however, in veiled manner (for it was veiled to them, too) proclaimed and preserved God's plan for the restoration of mankind to Himself... so that when that plan came to fruition, starting in a stable in Bethlehem and being utterly finished on a cross on Calvary, we could see that this indeed was His plan and that it was perfect.

Legalism, however, desires to hold on to some of the old so that man may feel some sense of worth in the process. "See? I am obedient to you and have kept your law." But only Christ could say that.

Self-worth, however, is not the worst of the legalists' doctrine. The worst is that it not only inevitably leads to an eventual improved view of self, it leads away from the truth of God's Word. It directs our gaze from Christ's finished work, to our unfinished work; and entices our efforts into keeping the commandments. Yes, we can put all of our focus and effort into fighting our flesh, and keeping the law: but we will be no more successful than the Pharisee; and we will have replaced faith with works. As soon as you plan works, they obviate faith. You cannot have the two as an impetus. The legalist doesn't understand that. In their unlearned desire to please God they conflate the two and believe that law and grace, faith and works can operate together to keep man in God's favor. But law and grace, faith and works, can no more exist together as a means than could wool be mixed with linen. God in that latter prohibition was teaching both that His people should not mix with the people of the world and that law cannot be mixed with grace.

Our salvation is either ALL of Christ ... or it is NONE of Christ. Paul is emphatic on that. In fact, it is the Holy Spirit who is emphatic on that because, after all, Paul wrote as the Spirit led him to write. ALL scripture is God-breathed. As soon as you add law to grace, you have accepted another gospel and you are not of Christ. You have turned from His gospel and accepted another.

By the same token, our sanctification is either ALL of Christ ... or it is not of Christ at all. The Holy Spirit, through Paul's letter to the churches in Galatia, made that very clear. "Who has bewitched you?" he says. "I marvel that you are so soon turned away from Him who called you ... You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you ... You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness." As Paul taught and as I teach, we are sanctified in exactly the same way we are saved: by hearing God's Word and believing it, placing our faith in the all-sufficiency of the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ. Either we believe Christ truly saves and keeps us; or we do not. The flesh wants to have some part; but it can no more have a part than Ishmael could share the right of primogeniture with Isaac, than Hagar could share the marital bed with Sarah. No man may glory before God; but as the Pharisees and Sadducee and Rabbis and Scribes demonstrated, man loves to glory and being diligent in one's religion gives him whereof to boast. Nor do we have to go back two thousand years for that evidence. Look at the religious legalists of our day—the leaders and prominent purveyors of false religions that glory in ritual and regulation—and you will see pride in self, the flesh in all of its ugliness. So, once and for all, remove from your minds the idea that you need to perform works of any kind to supplement your faith. It is not true. It is not scriptural.

That said, the opposite error of legalism is antinomianism. That's a word taken from the Greek. Anti means "against"; nomos means "law". Thus an antinomian is one who is against the law. And that is as great an error as legalism. Those of us who preach grace alone operating through faith alone, are often accused of being antinomian. But that is a lie. In his epistle to the churches in Galatia, from which I quoted freehand above, after chiding the readers for bringing law into grace, Paul says this:

"Use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (Galatians 5:13b-14)

We are given complete liberty in Christ ... because Christ paid the entire penalty of our entire sin and at the same time freed us entirely from the outward keeping of the law which requires the working of the flesh rather than the working of faith. BUT WE ARE NOT TO USE THAT FREEDOM TO INDULGE OUR FLESH!!! To do so is to sin. Now, by confessing that sin, God is faithful to forgive us ... as often as we ask for that forgiveness. But we are not to tempt God and to purposefully sin in the belief that God will always forgive you is tempting God. Trust me, He has ways of chastening that will cause you to stop!

But there is something else you need to consider. When you are born again you are restored to relationship with God. But more than that, you are made one with Christ. You are placed in Him and He is placed in you by the Holy Spirit ... a transaction that cannot be undone, providing you in truth in the very center of your heart have come to Christ. When He accepts you, He promises to keep you. You are born again, a brand new creature. And no more can you return to being an old creature than a butterfly can again be a caterpillar. That said, the mark of this new life is a new heart, a heart that desires to please God. We may not always succeed; but we will always desire to please Him. Every time we fail and fall, we are broken inside because we have hurt our Lord. We feel He has every reason, every right, to cast us away. He won't, though, for we are bound to Him by our faith and sealed to Him by the Holy Spirit. And nothing can overcome God and His Word. Even those with besetting sins, battles with a sin which they repeatedly lose, are not cast away; but by bonds of love are convicted and eventually by faith are delivered. If this describes you, do not fear. Remember, you are already reckoned blameless and holy in God's eyes, and that blamelessness and holiness (that is to say, your sanctification) is being worked out in your actual life by the Holy Spirit who operates in you as you maintain absolute faith in what Christ fully provided for you at the Cross. The mark you are His is the discouragement and dissatisfaction you feel at your failure. Were you not His, you would not really care.

And that brings me to this: if you claim to be saved, but are continuing in sin, leading your life just in whatever way pleases you, and do not care at all but excuse your sin, I would suggest you need to get real with God. I cannot judge your heart, but I can tell you that you have no fruit that indicates you are saved. If there has been no inward change in you but your life continues on as it did before, the only difference being that you said a salvation prayer or even got baptized, then I would suggest you are not saved. If there is no change, there is no salvation. The change begins inwardly, and is sure to occur. Sometimes in an instant; sometimes manifested over a period of time. But that change IS ALWAYS PRESENT. It may take a long time to be manifested outwardly so others can plainly see; but it will be present inwardly and others with the Holy Spirit will often sense it. But if there is no inner change, there is no salvation. Get right with God. Repent in truth, and believe in truth. And if it all seems like just a mental or intellectual exercise to you, then do this one thing: say "God, please bring me to the point of true repentance." That is a prayer He will answer.

God's will for every person is to be restored to relationship with Him. Thus He will indeed accept all who come to Him in truth. And He will call all whom He knows will respond. But after being restored to relationship with God by His grace through our faith in Jesus Christ and His the finished work at Calvary, it is God's will that we begin to walk worthy of that calling. We are called to walk as children of light. We are told to having nothing to do with the unfruitful works of darkness, to no longer walk as pagans in sin. In this the holiness people are absolutely correct. We should ALL be holiness people in this regard. But it is also here where they go off the rails. I will not repeat why: I made that plain earlier. Instead I will share what they miss: the Scriptural way to holiness. God tells us through Paul in the same letter to the Galatians that I precised above. He says, "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law." (Galatians 5:16-18) Now how do we walk in the Spirit? Well, we do it by minding spiritual things. We order our lives around prayer, the word and worship. But most of all we live our lives each day by faith. BY FAITH! Trusting that Christ indeed has provided everything necessary for us and believing that as we desire it those things will be manifested in our lives. Just as we appropriate salvation to ourselves by faith, we appropriate sanctification to ourselves by faith. Truly the just shall live by faith! But Paul says the flesh lusts against the Spirit. In other places he says we must put the flesh to death. How do we do that? How do we conquer the flesh? It is revealed to us in Romans 8:13— "... if we by the Spirit put to death the works of the flesh ...." It is by the Spirit. We trust Christ that He has provided all we need and the Holy Spirit that He will work it out in us as we actively exercise our faith in Christ's finished work at the Cross: not trusting in our efforts but entirely in His.

Now, notice above the word "actively" with regard to practicing our faith. It is not something passive. It is something we have to consciously do. It does not happen by chance; but by continual active decisions on our part. Daily. Every time we are faced with a temptation, a trial, a moment of discouragement. WE need to WALK our faith. Every day. And part of that is determining to walk in obedience to God. He does not ask us to do something that is impossible. Paul said, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." In other words, Christ living inside us by the Holy Spirit, makes it possible to walk pleasing to the Father. He will walk out His life in us to the degree that we are willing to cooperate. And if we are not sufficiently willing, He will bring circumstances into our life to bring us to a place of separation and commitment. But the fact that it is His life and His power does not remove any responsibility on our part to cooperate. James said works are the evidence that faith is real. Isaiah, speaks of not just willingness but obedience. As works are the proof of true faith, obedience is the proof of true willingness. When we see in Scripture, or perceive in the Spirit, God calling us to leave our former behaviors and walk in His ways then it is up to us to agree with God, submit to His will, and determine that we should walk that way. At that point, when we have firmly made the determination, we then turn from ourselves to Him and in faith trust Him to provide the ability to do that. The fruit of the Spirit is not something we put on like a mask, but is something that is produced from within. We cannot manifest it; but is will manifest itself. As a branch on a fruit tree need do nothing to produce fruit but remain attached to the tree which gives it life; so we as branches attached to the Vine need do nothing to produce fruit except remain firmly attached to Christ who gives us life. And that is ALL done through faith. We read His Word in faith, we pray in faith; we worship in faith; we seek to order our lives pleasing to Him in faith; we obey in faith; and we trust HIM to do the actual work in us in faith.

Do you see it? Do you see how He does the work but we need to want it done, we need to determine in our hearts to allow Him to do it, and we need to reckon that He will and in fact IS doing it. And its all by faith. But that faith will be manifested in those practical acts I just listed. The poor holiness person correctly observes that God wants them to live holy, that it is in fact a command. But he or she then determines to work that out through self effort, self denial, self works. Instead, what they should do is determine to follow and trust God to do it. To do this appears much much harder at the outset than trying to do it yourself. After all, when you do something you can see the result of your effort; you know the doing of it rests with you. But the one who operates in faith has no such concrete touchstones. They have ONLY faith. But that is exactly ALL they need. And so in the long run, exercising faith in God to do what we need done, we truly enter into His rest, we bear a lighter yoke, and we thus discover just how easy life in Christ is. If we trust God to do it, He will; and HE alone will receive the glory. Even the crowns we shall earn in accordance with what the Bible says, will be truly His. And that is why we will cast them at His feet. We will know we do not deserve them. Worthy is the Lamb alone to receive praise and honor and power and blessing and glory!

Please do not treat this faith as something light, something you can toss off the tip of your tongue like a simple word. It requires a deep commitment to Christ. And a lot hangs on it. Remember, one day you will stand alone before Christ and answer for your life. For everything. We are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). This does not mean we are responsible for making our salvation complete; it means we need to ensure that what is planted in us indeed has the opportunity to take root and grow. It means that we actively by faith seek to allow God to do His work in us. (And it IS Him who puts the desire in us and then does the work because the very next verse says, "for it is God that works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.") And it means by faith that we seek to walk in obedience, trusting Him in faith to guide, and enable us. Why in fear and trembling? Because it is Almighty God who enjoins you to do this. Hell is a horrible place and God's salvation through Christ is the only means to avoid it. One way into Heaven; millions of ways into hell. Do not be deceived. Make sure of your salvation by determining to allow God to do His work in you. Determine to be obedient when He speaks directly to your heart, and in faith trust Him to make your obedience both possible and productive, and so accomplishing your desire and His purpose.
It was along these lines that Paul spoke to his protegé Timothy. To this young pastor he wrote "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." In modern words, we would discover a full rendering of the Greek says, "Pay close attention to yourself—that is to say, to your own life—and to the teaching that you have received. Remain in these things and persist in them: for in doing so you will deliver yourself from danger, making yourself safe, and preserving yourself... not just you yourself but all who hear you." While most people are not pastors and responsible for others, all people are responsible for their own lives and have a great effect on those who observe them. By obedience to Christ we not only give evidence that we are saved, but lead others to Christ, too. And by obedience to Christ we keep ourselves from spiritual dangers that could make shipwreck of our lives.

Let us so live our lives that there will be no doubt that we are Christ's. But understand that the works that WILL be manifest in our lives if we live in that obedience are the fruit of that walk, not the cause of it.

I pray that what I have written here will encourage all who read. I have divided scripture prayerfully and carefully. I only pray I have explained it simply but sufficiently, anticipating objections and answering them for you. If you have any questions, I know you will post them below. If you prefer, you can PM them to me. For the sake of readability I have used almost no scripture references in what I have written. Most mature Christians will know right away what specific scriptures underlie what I have said. If anybody else does not know and would like to find the supporting scriptures for certain statements, just ask.

May God bless each one of you and lead you into the fullness of His truth.
 

iSong6:3

Well-Known Member
Among other things, I like what you said about legalism leading to "an improved view of self and away from the truth of God's Word.". His Word tells us that our *righteousness* is as filthy rags. We can do nothing good on our own. Only God working His works through us produces good works. They're His works, not ours. No person gets to boast or feel they've arrived at any measure of righteousness. God doesn't rehabilitate our flesh. And all works of our flesh will be burned up as wood, hay and stubble.

The grace of God to make us free men and women and not under the curse of the law seems scandalous to some, they cannot take it in. It is an enormous, life-changing truth. But as Paul said, do we use our new freedom to sin? NO!! GOD FORBID!! To entertain that is to not understand our new lives in Him at all. And God gives us a new heart, a spirit as His child, that truly from the core of our being, from the inside out, does not want to sin. That's one way we can know we are His. Although we do sin - because we're stuck with our flesh in this life - we hate it, we repent, we agree with God that is sin and we ask His help to overcome.

We don't try to follow a list of rules. Righteousness doesn't come from the outside in but from the inside out. We learn more and more to walk in His Spirit, to let His life flow through us. That's it, that's the Christian life. The Holy Spirit doesn't need rules, the flesh does. But again, God's not in the business of building up our flesh. Legalists don't understand these things. They're missing the whole Christian life.

Sorry, bro, you're the preacher and you said it all so well. But I think something rises up in each of us when we are confronted with and this board infiltrated by those who ultimately deny Christ's work on the cross. By their beliefs and works they deny why He had to die for us, and what His death bought us. It's a damnable lie from the pit of Hell, that's why we will always stand against it and protect this board from doctrines of demons.
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
Sis, you just said it all in four short paragraphs! :thumbup If people don't have time to read my message, they can get the point from yours! :lol:

You are quite right. What you have written is the exact truth that people need to hear and believe. I find it is always a struggle to get the average Christian to see it because they are influenced on one hand by erroneous doctrine taught (for the most part) by well-meaning people; and on the other hand they are influenced by the ideas of their flesh, the ideas that the world has taught them that if you want something done you have to do it; if you want to receive a benefit you have to earn it.
 
Thanks Adrian. It's always good to hear this again.

Does anyone else find that they feel better when they are doing well and worse when they feel they make mistakes? I believe belief Christ is the only way to God, however my feelings tend to swing back and forth. It's very frustrating.
 

mbrown1219

Heaven's Stables
Romans 8:31-39 NLT - Nothing Can Separate Us from God

Romans 8:31-39
New Living Translation (NLT)
Nothing Can Separate Us from God’s Love

31 What shall we say about such wonderful things as these? If God is for us, who can ever be against us? 32 Since he did not spare even his own Son but gave him up for us all, won’t he also give us everything else? 33 Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? No one—for God himself has given us right standing with himself. 34 Who then will condemn us? No one—for Christ Jesus died for us and was raised to life for us, and he is sitting in the place of honor at God’s right hand, pleading for us.

35 Can anything ever separate us from Christ’s love? Does it mean he no longer loves us if we have trouble or calamity, or are persecuted, or hungry, or destitute, or in danger, or threatened with death? 36 (As the Scriptures say, “For your sake we are killed every day; we are being slaughtered like sheep.”[a]) 37 No, despite all these things, overwhelming victory is ours through Christ, who loved us.

38 And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. 39 No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Footnotes:

8:36 Ps 44:22.
8:38 Greek nor rulers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thank you Father for your divine provision of grace to redeem sinful man from the clutches of Satan into Your unfailing grip which cannot be broken.

Thank You Jesus, for first loving us and drawing us to Yourself by faith.

Thank You Holy Spirit for living within us and working out the Father's will in our lives.

Nothing can separate us from Your love. We are secure in You alone.
 

TheOvercomers

Well-Known Member
The grace of God to make us free men and women and not under the curse of the law seems scandalous to some, they cannot take it in. It is an enormous, life-changing truth. But as Paul said, do we use our new freedom to sin? NO!! GOD FORBID!! To entertain that is to not understand our new lives in Him at all. And God gives us a new heart, a spirit as His child, that truly from the core of our being, from the inside out, does not want to sin. That's one way we can know we are His. Although we do sin - because we're stuck with our flesh in this life - we hate it, we repent, we agree with God that is sin and we ask His help to overcome.

We don't try to follow a list of rules. Righteousness doesn't come from the outside in but from the inside out. We learn more and more to walk in His Spirit, to let His life flow through us. That's it, that's the Christian life. The Holy Spirit doesn't need rules, the flesh does. But again, God's not in the business of building up our flesh. Legalists don't understand these things. They're missing the whole Christian life.

Sorry, bro, you're the preacher and you said it all so well. But I think something rises up in each of us when we are confronted with and this board infiltrated by those who ultimately deny Christ's work on the cross. By their beliefs and works they deny why He had to die for us, and what His death bought us. It's a damnable lie from the pit of Hell, that's why we will always stand against it and protect this board from doctrines of demons.

Amen, dear sis. I think that one of the evidences that the gospel of grace has taken a hold of someone is that they begin to hate the things that they once loved, and love the things they once hated. That is not to say that one will not struggle. I was saved as a child and I personally have many struggles, but praise be to God, he ALWAYS, ALWAYS remains faithful, and I can approach the throne of Grace with confidence in knowing that he cleanses us from all our sins.

God bless.
 

Heistheway

Member
I love what is being said in this thread!

When we chose knowledge and self-reliance over direct connection to God, the consequences were set. ANY action by man to mitigate or reverse this condition, by their own volition is about themselves and NOT the Father! This is why our best efforts are as dirty rags! We are attempting to redeem ourselves! There is only ONE redeemer, One who is qualified to bring salvation. Any attempts to justify what Christ has already done is self-serving.

God will spiritually move us to tend to his people. Those acts are not "good deeds". Those acts are acts of faith, obedience, and self-less-ness. Let us not judge ourselves for we are not worthy. Not even to congratulate ourselves for doing what we "think" Jesus would do. Let us obey the Lord, and trust Him to judge us according to His Word.

I love what you said MattFiveFour!
 

BroMatt

New Member
1 Corinthians
Chapter 3
17: If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy;
for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
Let's properly exegete 1 Corinthians 3:16-17, BroMatt.

First of all the occasion for this message was the carnal thinking of the Christians in Corinth who all operated from a fleshly perspective, valuing those things that are valued in the world and putting their confidence in them to the detriment of their unity ("I am of Paul, I of Cephus, I of Apollos.")

The subject of this chapter is, from its entire context, clearly that of sound doctrine. Therefore we must keep these verses in their context: not that of personal sin but that of doctrine.

The Greek (the Stephanus Textus Receptus here is identical to all other texts) reads: εἴ τις τὸν ναὸν τοῦ θεοῦ φθείρει φθερεῖ τοῦτον ὁ θεός· ὁ γὰρ ναὸς τοῦ θεοῦ ἅγιός ἐστιν οἵτινές ἐστε ὑμεῖς.

The words in verse 17 that the KJV translates "defile" and "destroy" are both the same Greek verb φθείρω (phtheiro, pronounced FTHAIR-owe) which means "to destroy" in the sense of "to corrupt" or "to ruin" the quality or nature of something. It does not mean "to kill" or "to cause to perish" or "to destroy in the sense of casting into hell". The word for that latter is ἀπόλλυμι (apollumi, pronounced a-POLL-oo-mee). So it is not speaking of eternal destruction but of corruption or ruin.

The word translated "temple" in both verses is ναός (naos, nah-OSS) which does not refer to the entire temple of God, nor even the Holy Place in the temple, but specifically to the Holy of Holies wherein dwelt the Presence of God above the Mercy Seat. Thus we are told that we ourselves in our person are the very dwelling place of God on earth. Which of course only stands to reason because the Holy Spirit who is God indwells each one of us who are Christ's.

So, now we can proceed to a proper exegesis of this passage. It has nothing to do with holy living, but holy believing and holy teaching. The Holy Spirit through Paul is informing us that individually we are the very place where God dwells—and since the Church is made up of all of the individual believers on earth—corporately we also are the dwelling place of God on earth thus we are to ensure we keep it holy in its doctrine. And He further instructs us that if we corrupt this place—both ourselves as the embodiment and example of Christ and the Church as the organ of Christ—through false doctrine and human priorities, God will cause us to be corrupted also. The very same principle can be seen in other NT teachings. Paul tells us in Romans 12:2 not be conformed to the world but to be transformed by the renewing of our minds through the Word. It means having a godly, an eternal, perspective rather than a temporal, carnal one. The former will lead us from glory to glory, even into the very image of Christ. The latter will lead us to carnality and spiritual weakness, making us easy prey for Satan, causing us much pain and eventual ruin in our flesh. If we walk in the Spirit the fruit of the Spirit will more and more become evident. If we sow to the flesh, we will reap the works of the flesh. If we sow to the wind we will reap the whirlwind in our lives. Such carnality may even bring us to the point where we lose all faith in Christ, manifesting that we were not Christ's in the first place. "Depart from Me, I NEVER knew you."

So it is quite clear that if by, bad doctrine or careless belief—abandoning the faith once received—we ruin this witness of Himself in us, He will bring us to ruin, too. From the context we can see that this warning is intended for the Church as a whole; but note that by the use of the singular nouns, verbs and pronouns here it is addressed to us in the singular person, to us as individuals, in order to emphasize that it is our personal responsibility to ensure that we do not permit or personally harbor false doctrine, neither continue to operate from a fleshly perspective but seek rather to operate from a godly one.

Thus these two verses have nothing to do with sin or holiness or God casting out the sinning Christian.

Now the Bible does, elsewhere in the NT, repeatedly and emphatically teach us about holiness. It is to be our desire. It is to be our goal. Imputed holiness is a fact for every Christian. Solely by Christ's sacrifice we receive this perfect holiness as a gift. But personal, experiential holiness, is a progressive work of the Holy Spirit who leads us from glory to glory even, as I quoted before, unto the image of Christ. Not a representation but an exact image (Greek ikon) of our Savior! Think of that! The goal boggles my mind. But that is God's work in us, not our work. We WILL more and more exhibit that personal holiness. It is guaranteed, in two ways. First, by God's Word that tells us that He who began a good work in us will perform it to the end; that He is the author and the finisher of our faith; that He will present us faultless and without blame before the Father. Either we believe He does it; or we believe we have to with His help. the simple fact is that in Christ we can do nothing; He does it all. We have to supply the desire and be willing to obey. Second, by the Holy Spirit living inside us. We who are saved know we are because He indwells us as a result of our believing faith in Jesus Christ; and as we were born into this new life in Christ at the point of salvation we received as part of that the desire to be holy. We may fail many times at that; but God has made provision for that and we get up and keep going, restored by the blood of Christ that continually cleanses us from all sin as we confess it to God.

But 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 has nothing to do with any of that. Therefore to suggest, as do many untutored preachers and teachers, that this verse applies to personal holiness—ie: the presence of sins of the flesh or mind—is an erroneous exegesis and is actually a violation of the true teaching of this instruction by bringing false doctrine to it. Yet they miss this, thinking in ignorance that they are teaching aright.

In conclusion, this passage is a warning against carnal thinking and false beliefs. And certainly those who bring in false doctrine or allow others to do so are setting themselves on a course of corruption and eventual ruin, their faith being shipwrecked, because false doctrine leads us away from the Truth of God and into the error of man and of Satan.
 

TheOvercomers

Well-Known Member
Now the Bible does, elsewhere in the NT, repeatedly and emphatically teach us about holiness. It is to be our desire. It is to be our goal. Imputed holiness is a fact for every Christian. Solely by Christ's sacrifice we receive this perfect holiness as a gift. But personal, experiential holiness, is a progressive work of the Holy Spirit who leads us from glory to glory even, as I quoted before, unto the image of Christ. Not a representation but an exact image (Greek ikon) of our Savior! Think of that! The goal boggles my mind. But that is God's work in us, not our work. We WILL more and more exhibit that personal holiness. It is guaranteed, in two ways. First, by God's Word that tells us that He who began a good work in us will perform it to the end; that He is the author and the finisher of our faith; that He will present us faultless and without blame before the Father. Either we believe He does it; or we believe we have to with His help. the simple fact is that in Christ we can do nothing; He does it all. We have to supply the desire and be willing to obey. Second, by the Holy Spirit living inside us. We who are saved know we are because He indwells us as a result of our believing faith in Jesus Christ; and as we were born into this new life in Christ at the point of salvation we received as part of that the desire to be holy. We may fail many times at that; but God has made provision for that and we get up and keep going, restored by the blood of Christ that continually cleanses us from all sin as we confess it to God.

:nod

:announce: AMEN!!!
 

BroMatt

New Member
1 Corinthians
Chapter 3
17: If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy;
for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1 Peter
Chapter 1
15: But as he which hath called you is holy,
so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16: Because it is written,
Be ye holy; for I am holy.
 

TheOvercomers

Well-Known Member
1 Peter
Chapter 1
15: But as he which hath called you is holy,
so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16: Because it is written,
Be ye holy; for I am holy.

SO BE YE HOLY IN ALL MANNER OF CONVERSATION...

For God knows that the Spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

In this lifetime, one cannot attain Holiness, thus why as Pastor Adrian clearly asserted it is IMPUTED unto the believer. We desire holiness, and that holiness can only come from God.

Aren't you grateful that when we do sin, we may with confidence approach his Throne of Grace?

BTW, welcome to the forums.

God Bless.
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
1 Peter
Chapter 1
15: But as he which hath called you is holy,
so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16: Because it is written,
Be ye holy; for I am holy.
BroMatt, nobody is arguing with that. Holiness is God's intention for us. But it is clear from ALL Scripture on sanctification that it is His work ... not ours.

We can NOT be holy through our own efforts. God makes that absolutely crystal clear in Galatians 3.

The New Testament teaches that we are holy IN Christ—as far as our position goes; and holy THROUGH Christ—as far as our condition goes. Our positional sanctification in Christ is instant. But there is no such thing as instant experiential sanctification. That latter is an outworking of the Holy Spirit of that which was planted in us at salvation. It is progressive. Like a seed it is planted, germinates, and grows until it reaches maturity and produces fruit. That we are not instantly able to walk holy is evident from what the Holy Spirit tells us through Paul's words in Romans 5 through 7. Further in one of his final epistles he says that he has not yet attained to the perfection to be found in Christ but that he presses on, forgetting those things that lie behind. (Philippians 3:9-16) Most tellingly, we discover in his writings that the longer he walked with God, the lower he viewed himself. In one of his earliest epistles (First Corinthians) he describes himself as "the least among the apostles." In one of his later epistles (Ephesians) he describes himself not as least among the apostles but "least among the saints". And by the time he wrote one of his very last epistles (1 Timothy) he describes himself only as the "chief of sinners."

And to properly exegete 1 Peter 1:15-16, let us note that the word hagios translated "holy" means "to be set apart" from that which is common. And the word translated "conversation" means "behavior", the way you live your life. Therefore this passage is instructing us not to be like the world, not to accommodate it in our lives, not be drawn to it, but be set apart from it, distinct and dedicated to God, and to live as He is, apart from it. This we do, more and more, as we grow in grace and knowledge. The ability is placed in us at salvation, the provision for it being fully paid for at Calvary and entirely placed within us at the moment we accept Christ and the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us. If you are suggesting by posting this passage in support of your previous one that it is up to US to walk in some sort of spiritual purity from the get go or we are less than Christ's possession, you are making the error of the holiness people and teaching false doctrine. I trust that is not your intention.
 
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