I see. I am not being clear. I believe these scriptures are addressing "Willful premeditated sin". Not what born again people do. I hope that clarifies it. Do you agree? I do not believe we can ask God to forgive us for something we PLAN to do next month or tomorrow. If we sin He forgives, but this is an act of rebellion. Imho. Whatta ya think?I am not interested in debating with you, I just asked you a simple question about what you believe. If you don't want to answer, that's fine.It's kind of hard for me to "correct you doctrinally" without understanding what it is you believe.
The scriptures you quoted below do not just speak of murders.
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev_22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
So then based on your interpretation of those scriptures, anyone who lies after accepting Jesus Christ as their Savior will not go to Heaven correct?
Suicide and the Christian
- Thread starter Rocky R.
- Start date
annieforjesus
Well-Known Member
I'm confused over what you're saying about will full, premeditated sin..I thought that once we are saved that we cannot do anything to change that.., is there anything that I can do to renounce my salvation...I've been of the opinion that I could not..I have not thought about it differently and am trying to understand...I know the case could be argued that if a person wilfully sins , maybe they were not saved, but knowing human nature, I believe that sometimes people do wilfully sin, even though God says there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.
SonSeeker
Well-Known Member
A couple of thoughts from a fellow Christian who means absolutely no offense or disrespect.
1. "Jesus learned obedience through the things He suffered, so can we." Jesus was born fully God and fully man. He didn't need to suffer to learn obedience, He willingly suffered to save us from our sins.
2."if you come to the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang on, your deliverance is on the way. IMHO."A fellow Christian and good friend finished your premise a little differently. He said, "If you come to the end of your rope, just let go and fall into Jesus' Loving Arms!" No offense, but I like his ending better.
Just my humble 2 cents.
Goodboy
Won't Be Long Now!
Lenreff, thanks for your further explanation!
My short answer is there is nothing we can do to save ourselves other than accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and after salvation nothing we can do to un-save ourselves so to speak.
The longer answer is this. There is a cost to get into Heaven. The cost is you must be sinless. As no person is sinless, no one would get into Heaven on their own merit. So then Jesus paid the cost as a sinless man, so that anyone claiming Jesus as the payment could enter.
Think of it this way. Let's say that Trump states that any of his children adopted or otherwise could utilize any of his buildings for free. Let's say that one of his adopted children try to get a room at Trump Towers. He goes to the front desk and ask for a room and they ask for payment. The room cost is $600 per night and he only has $20 and no credit card. He then says "Well I cannot afford the room, but I am Trump's child". The response is, "Why didn't you say so, we will put you in the best room we have".
So Turmps adopted child did not have the payment, but because he was Trump's child did not need it.
We who have accept Jesus Christ as our Savior don't have the payment of being sinless, but we don't need it because we are God's adopted child and Jesus paid the cost! The verses you listed do not apply to us as God does not see our sin because of what Jesus did. He does however see the sin for those who do not believe and that's whom the verses you listed are referring to.
Here are some verses speaking of our adoption as God's children.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1 Joh 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Hope this helps.
My short answer is there is nothing we can do to save ourselves other than accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and after salvation nothing we can do to un-save ourselves so to speak.
The longer answer is this. There is a cost to get into Heaven. The cost is you must be sinless. As no person is sinless, no one would get into Heaven on their own merit. So then Jesus paid the cost as a sinless man, so that anyone claiming Jesus as the payment could enter.
Think of it this way. Let's say that Trump states that any of his children adopted or otherwise could utilize any of his buildings for free. Let's say that one of his adopted children try to get a room at Trump Towers. He goes to the front desk and ask for a room and they ask for payment. The room cost is $600 per night and he only has $20 and no credit card. He then says "Well I cannot afford the room, but I am Trump's child". The response is, "Why didn't you say so, we will put you in the best room we have".
So Turmps adopted child did not have the payment, but because he was Trump's child did not need it.
We who have accept Jesus Christ as our Savior don't have the payment of being sinless, but we don't need it because we are God's adopted child and Jesus paid the cost! The verses you listed do not apply to us as God does not see our sin because of what Jesus did. He does however see the sin for those who do not believe and that's whom the verses you listed are referring to.
Here are some verses speaking of our adoption as God's children.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1 Joh 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Hope this helps.
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mattfivefour
Well-Known Member
I do not believe we can make blanket statements about suicide. The Pharisees pointed out things in the law of God that were true ... if you look at them on the surface and legalistically. But Jesus pointed out what they missed in their very strict application of God's Word-- God's love and His compassion for the hurting and the poor in spirit. He also advised that we concern ourselves with the log in our own eye rather than the speck in someone else's: the message being that we need to focus His Law on ourselves and not on someone else. Only God knows another person's heart. So, we are to give grace to others, not law; for "the letter killeth, but the Spirit given life." Therefore I believe that when it comes to the strictness of God's Word we should apply it to ourselves (always, of course, through the lens of Christ's fully finished work on the Cross), but we should apply God's grace to others. And that includes to the families and friends of those who unfortunately end their own lives. Respectfully, making blanket statements based on a strict reading of God's Word does not do that.
Goodboy
Won't Be Long Now!
This is somewhat off the main topic, but I do not think that suicide is the same as murder.
Murder breaks God's law and also takes away someone else's right to live.
While both are sins, suicide just breaks God's law.
Let me ask truthfully to those who believe that suicide is the same as murder.
If you were the leader of a country and able to make all the laws and you caught someone trying to commit suicide, would you sentence them to 25 years in jail for attempted murder?
No copping out here and saying you would send them to a mental institution.
Murder breaks God's law and also takes away someone else's right to live.
While both are sins, suicide just breaks God's law.
Let me ask truthfully to those who believe that suicide is the same as murder.
If you were the leader of a country and able to make all the laws and you caught someone trying to commit suicide, would you sentence them to 25 years in jail for attempted murder?
No copping out here and saying you would send them to a mental institution.
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annieforjesus
Well-Known Member
Mattfivefour. That is an excellent post..thank you .and thanks to the others who've made great posts too. I think this thread actually got started because sometimes we get concerned for loved ones who were lost to suicide...I hold fast to the promises that are made to us through Christ., And that will take me all the way home.
mattfivefour
Well-Known Member
Amen.
Goodboy
Won't Be Long Now!
Lenreff,
As it seems you are interested it what others think, not just looking to debate let me share this with you.
A free gift requires no payment and no stipulation as to what you must do afterward.
So for example, suppose I give my son a car when he turns 21. I tell him I am giving this to you as a free gift, but you must change the oil and keep the car clean or I will take it back. Well one of two things is the case if I am to take the car back. Either I never truly gave him the car (still in my name) or I have stolen it when I take it back and he can have me arrested.
The Bible states that salvation is a free gift where the only thing you need to do is accept it (which includes belief), absolutely nothing else.
Here is something I wrote with some Bible reference verses that speaks to the fact that belief is all that is required.
Salvation - It’s not really hard
Salvation is not really hard. It will only seem to be hard if we add to what the Bible says is required or we redefine what words like belief, faith, free gift and Grace mean.
Don’t add to what the Bible says and don’t redefine what the words mean in the verses below. If you don’t do that, then salvation is very easy to understand, which is why even a young child can understand it.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh_3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh_4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
Joh_6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Act_8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Act_15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Rom_3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom_5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom_5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Rom_5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom_5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom_5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom_5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom_11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph_2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
1Th_4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Ti_1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Tit_3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
I am sure that there are many more verses in the Bible that support the fact that belief in Jesus Christ is all that is required for salvation that I have not listed. Why not just tell someone exactly what the Bible says instead of creating your own interpretation of what it takes to be saved. Sure I totally agree that there are a lot of other things you should do, but the only thing God requires for salvation is belief.
As it seems you are interested it what others think, not just looking to debate let me share this with you.
A free gift requires no payment and no stipulation as to what you must do afterward.
So for example, suppose I give my son a car when he turns 21. I tell him I am giving this to you as a free gift, but you must change the oil and keep the car clean or I will take it back. Well one of two things is the case if I am to take the car back. Either I never truly gave him the car (still in my name) or I have stolen it when I take it back and he can have me arrested.
The Bible states that salvation is a free gift where the only thing you need to do is accept it (which includes belief), absolutely nothing else.
Here is something I wrote with some Bible reference verses that speaks to the fact that belief is all that is required.
Salvation - It’s not really hard
Salvation is not really hard. It will only seem to be hard if we add to what the Bible says is required or we redefine what words like belief, faith, free gift and Grace mean.
Don’t add to what the Bible says and don’t redefine what the words mean in the verses below. If you don’t do that, then salvation is very easy to understand, which is why even a young child can understand it.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh_3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh_4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
Joh_6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Act_8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Act_15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Rom_3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom_5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom_5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Rom_5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom_5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom_5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom_5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom_11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph_2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
1Th_4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Ti_1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Tit_3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
I am sure that there are many more verses in the Bible that support the fact that belief in Jesus Christ is all that is required for salvation that I have not listed. Why not just tell someone exactly what the Bible says instead of creating your own interpretation of what it takes to be saved. Sure I totally agree that there are a lot of other things you should do, but the only thing God requires for salvation is belief.
Everlasting Life
Through Faith in Jesus
Some good discussion on this thread and lenraff, I'm glad you chimed in as that produced good discussion.
Lentaff, I'm also so glad, so very glad that you are here today to chat with! No matter what kept you from making that decision, the fact that you are with us today is so valuable. Thank you for sharing and thank you that you trusted God. I mean that very sincerely.
What you've brought out is the the very hard reality that as a christian things can be pretty rough.
. It reminds me of King David and his constant, fatiguing run from Saul who was trying to kill him and drove him from his country, fellowship and any sort of life. Reading the psalms during that time of David's life gives real insight to the emotional battles David was fighting. That tells those battles are real and are tough. . During some tough times myself reading those psalms and seeing David move to trusting God gave me strength and courage to do the same. And I think your example is very much on line with how David handled things.
So, thank you for being an example in this way. I believe this is powerful.
Lentaff, I'm also so glad, so very glad that you are here today to chat with! No matter what kept you from making that decision, the fact that you are with us today is so valuable. Thank you for sharing and thank you that you trusted God. I mean that very sincerely.
What you've brought out is the the very hard reality that as a christian things can be pretty rough.
. It reminds me of King David and his constant, fatiguing run from Saul who was trying to kill him and drove him from his country, fellowship and any sort of life. Reading the psalms during that time of David's life gives real insight to the emotional battles David was fighting. That tells those battles are real and are tough. . During some tough times myself reading those psalms and seeing David move to trusting God gave me strength and courage to do the same. And I think your example is very much on line with how David handled things.So, thank you for being an example in this way. I believe this is powerful.
I am always glad to provoke discussion of God's word and doctrine. And while we may not always agree, it is wonderful to be a part of God's dynamic body. It's good to hear from so many well versed bible believers in one place. Now perhaps, I'll ask if
1.I would be correct in saying that the referenced verses apply to the unsaved?
2.And if so they that commit those things were never truly converted?
And EL, Thank You for the kind words, I'm glad I'm here too, got to see 7 wonderful grandchildren grow up and one even get married!!
Thanks all for the great discussion, like a good workout, LOL.
1.I would be correct in saying that the referenced verses apply to the unsaved?
2.And if so they that commit those things were never truly converted?
And EL, Thank You for the kind words, I'm glad I'm here too, got to see 7 wonderful grandchildren grow up and one even get married!!
Thanks all for the great discussion, like a good workout, LOL.
Goodboy
Won't Be Long Now!
Yes to question 1, but to question 2 not necessarily. I do believe that someone can truly be saved and commit the sins referred to. Now I don't believe they will be happy if they continually give in to the old sin nature, but yes they will still be saved. Actually I believe if the sin is bad enough, God will even take them home (have them killed).
Here is an interesting verse that is rarely if ever talked about.
Matthew 5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Wow, you mean to say that someone that not only breaks the commandments, but teaches others to do so will make it to Heaven?
Brother Albert R.
Jesus loved us and said we should Love our enemies
Very interesting topic and discussion. I just read this today and have much to think about on this topic. I want to think biblically on all topics, with the Holy Spirit guidance. Every post has caused me to think more deeply on this topic.
God bless
Brother ALbert
God bless
Brother ALbert
Another interesting verse to keep this lively discussion going, Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
I'll be traveling for a couple weeks and won't have access to a computer. Pray for me that the Lord opens doors, as I'll be staying with a friend I haven't seen in almost thirty years. We have sent him and his wife Bibles and I'm praying for their conversion from Catholicism. Please ask the Lord to give me wisdom. I've seen some wonderfully born again saints come out of that cult, including my beautiful wife. See you all soon, signing off for now miss ya' already. lenraff
ozaprah
Active Member
Well, there goes Lot, Samson and David's chance of being in the Kingdom of God.
Oh wait... they're all in the Hebrews Hall of Faith..
God's grace is an amazing thing!
(And did Samson, by the way, commit suicide by bringing down the building on top of himself?)
Goodboy
Won't Be Long Now!
Excellent response!!!
Goodboy
Won't Be Long Now!
Good question, and as you said "to keep this lively discussion going". It is interesting that you choose the book of Galatians where Paul is chastising them for mixing works with the free grace salvation message.
So here is my answer to you. Other Bible translations translate the verse to say "practice such things" rather than "do such things" which is closer to correct. The better translation would be "believe such things are right" which is what Paul's point was. Anyone who believes such things are right, has not been converted because of their lack of belief. So in a sense "practice such things" is close, because you tend to only practice things that you believe.
Now you may say I am changing God's Word to make my point. Nope, God's Word is kind of like a jig saw puzzle and you won't get the correct understanding unless all the doctrine fits together, meaning no contradictions. The Bible does not contradict itself. When it seems to, that is only a symptom of misunderstanding what was being stated. I have shown you many verses that state salvation is a free gift and it is only by grace you are saved and there is nothing you can do on your part before or after to gain salvation or lose it. If the verse you gave me makes you think otherwise, it just means you are misunderstanding the verse.
All that said, you may say why is understanding that salvation is a free gift so important? It is so we do not judge anyone. You may say that you do not judge anyone and would share Christ with a horrible murder. That's a good thing and a good start, but we should not judge anyone, including saved Christians. If works has anything to do with salvation we will judge those Christians who we feel are not living right. No, we all are sinners in Gods eyes and would be considered so even after salvation if God judged us by our works. God does not judge us by our works before or after salvation when it comes to eternal life.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Just so there is no misunderstanding I am not at all saying that a Christian can just sin as much as he likes with no consequences. There will be consequences in this life and loss of rewards in eternity. I am just saying that what you do or don't do before or after you accept Jesus Christ as Savior has nothing to do with salvation (your eternal destiny).
Hope all goes well on your trip!
Great to here from you and you have caused a great discussion on this forum!God Bless!!! Goodboy
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WaitingForTheTrumpet
Well-Known Member
God imputes or accredits the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ to the believing sinner while he is still in his sinning state.
God has manifested His righteousness apart from the Law “even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe” (Rom. 3:21-22). The reason for this judicial standing before a righteous God is because we have “all sinned and come short of the glory of God” (v. 23). The foundation upon which God can justify the believing sinner who is still in his sinning state is because this justification is “a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith” (vv. 24-25).
Romans 5:12-21 teaches the imputing or charging of Adam’s sin to the human race. Because Adam sinned as the federal head of the human race, God considers all men as sinners. We are possessed of Adam’s nature (vv. 12-14), and the sentence of death is imposed on us (6:23). The effect of Adam’s fall is universal. We are all fallen sons and daughters of old Adam. We do not become sinful by sinning; we sin because we are sinful by nature. We sin because we are sinners.
The judgment of God rests upon all men outside of a saving relationship with Jesus Christ because of imputed sin, our inherited sin nature and our own personal sins.
We stand guilty before God and deserve the death penalty until we come to Christ alone for a right standing before God (Rom. 6:23).
Moreover, in a similar way, the sin of man is imputed to Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 5:21). Jehovah, the LORD God, laid on His Son, the Lamb of God, the iniquities of us all (Isa. 53:5; Jn. 1:29; 1 Pet. 2:24; 3:18). There was a judicial transfer of the sins of man to Jesus Christ, God’s Sin-Bearer.
The sin of man was imputed to Christ when He became the sin offering for the whole world (2 Cor. 5:14-21; Heb. 2:9; 1 Jn. 2:2).
Christ “was pierced through” for my transgressions. He was crushed for my iniquities. The chastening for my well-being fell upon Jesus Christ. By His scourging I am healed. “All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way, but the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him” (Isa. 53:4-6; cf. 1 Pet. 2:24-25). Isaiah used the strongest words possible to describe a violent and agonizing death in v. 5. It was the divine stroke of judgment when Christ “was pierced through for our transgressions.”
Our sins were imputed to Christ, and He went to the cross and died as our substitute (Rom. 5:6-8).
Furthermore, God imputes the righteousness of Jesus Christ to the believing sinner while he is still in his sinning state. This was true of Abraham (Gen. 15:6). It is true of every believer in Christ (Ps. 32:2; Rom. 3:22; 4:3, 8, 21-25; 2 Cor. 5:21). All of our sins were charged (imputed) to the account of Christ, and His righteous standing with the Father has been imputed (charged) to our account. There is a judicial transfer of the righteousness of God to the believer because there could be no other grounds of acceptance with a righteous God.
The righteousness of God is imputed to all who believe on Christ so that they may stand before Him in all the perfection of Christ.
Every saved sinner has been “made” the righteousness of God (1 Cor. 1:30; 2 Cor. 5:21; Rom. 5:21-23). This imputed righteousness is not something man does or earns.
It is all of God’s grace.
“God sees the believer as a living part of His own Son” by our identification with Him by the baptism of the Holy Spirit. We are members of His body (1 Cor. 12:13; Jn. 15:1, 5). God sees us “in Christ” and justifies us forever. He sees us clothed in the righteous garments of Christ.
Therefore, God loves you and me as much as He loves His own Son (Jn. 17:23). He accepts us as He accepts Jesus Christ (Eph. 1:6; 1 Pet. 2:5). He sees us the same way He sees His own Son (2 Cor. 5:21; Rom. 3:22; 1 Cor. 1:30). Christ is the righteousness of God, and those who believe on Him are made the righteousness of God by being “in Christ.” We are complete in Christ (Col. 2:10); therefore, God the Father sees us perfected forever (Heb. 10:10, 14).
This justification is the believer’s eternal standing before God. In our daily life we are far from the perfect legal standing with God and must “grow in grace and knowledge of Christ.”
How then shall we live our lives? We are now slaves, not of our old Adamic nature, but of the righteousness of God. The Holy Spirit produces through us God’s righteousness. “We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them” (Eph. 2:10). The imputed righteousness becomes the basis for a righteousness imparted through us by the Holy Spirit.
God has manifested His righteousness apart from the Law “even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe” (Rom. 3:21-22). The reason for this judicial standing before a righteous God is because we have “all sinned and come short of the glory of God” (v. 23). The foundation upon which God can justify the believing sinner who is still in his sinning state is because this justification is “a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith” (vv. 24-25).
Romans 5:12-21 teaches the imputing or charging of Adam’s sin to the human race. Because Adam sinned as the federal head of the human race, God considers all men as sinners. We are possessed of Adam’s nature (vv. 12-14), and the sentence of death is imposed on us (6:23). The effect of Adam’s fall is universal. We are all fallen sons and daughters of old Adam. We do not become sinful by sinning; we sin because we are sinful by nature. We sin because we are sinners.
The judgment of God rests upon all men outside of a saving relationship with Jesus Christ because of imputed sin, our inherited sin nature and our own personal sins.
We stand guilty before God and deserve the death penalty until we come to Christ alone for a right standing before God (Rom. 6:23).
Moreover, in a similar way, the sin of man is imputed to Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 5:21). Jehovah, the LORD God, laid on His Son, the Lamb of God, the iniquities of us all (Isa. 53:5; Jn. 1:29; 1 Pet. 2:24; 3:18). There was a judicial transfer of the sins of man to Jesus Christ, God’s Sin-Bearer.
The sin of man was imputed to Christ when He became the sin offering for the whole world (2 Cor. 5:14-21; Heb. 2:9; 1 Jn. 2:2).
Christ “was pierced through” for my transgressions. He was crushed for my iniquities. The chastening for my well-being fell upon Jesus Christ. By His scourging I am healed. “All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way, but the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him” (Isa. 53:4-6; cf. 1 Pet. 2:24-25). Isaiah used the strongest words possible to describe a violent and agonizing death in v. 5. It was the divine stroke of judgment when Christ “was pierced through for our transgressions.”
Our sins were imputed to Christ, and He went to the cross and died as our substitute (Rom. 5:6-8).
Furthermore, God imputes the righteousness of Jesus Christ to the believing sinner while he is still in his sinning state. This was true of Abraham (Gen. 15:6). It is true of every believer in Christ (Ps. 32:2; Rom. 3:22; 4:3, 8, 21-25; 2 Cor. 5:21). All of our sins were charged (imputed) to the account of Christ, and His righteous standing with the Father has been imputed (charged) to our account. There is a judicial transfer of the righteousness of God to the believer because there could be no other grounds of acceptance with a righteous God.
The righteousness of God is imputed to all who believe on Christ so that they may stand before Him in all the perfection of Christ.
Every saved sinner has been “made” the righteousness of God (1 Cor. 1:30; 2 Cor. 5:21; Rom. 5:21-23). This imputed righteousness is not something man does or earns.
It is all of God’s grace.
“God sees the believer as a living part of His own Son” by our identification with Him by the baptism of the Holy Spirit. We are members of His body (1 Cor. 12:13; Jn. 15:1, 5). God sees us “in Christ” and justifies us forever. He sees us clothed in the righteous garments of Christ.
Therefore, God loves you and me as much as He loves His own Son (Jn. 17:23). He accepts us as He accepts Jesus Christ (Eph. 1:6; 1 Pet. 2:5). He sees us the same way He sees His own Son (2 Cor. 5:21; Rom. 3:22; 1 Cor. 1:30). Christ is the righteousness of God, and those who believe on Him are made the righteousness of God by being “in Christ.” We are complete in Christ (Col. 2:10); therefore, God the Father sees us perfected forever (Heb. 10:10, 14).
This justification is the believer’s eternal standing before God. In our daily life we are far from the perfect legal standing with God and must “grow in grace and knowledge of Christ.”
How then shall we live our lives? We are now slaves, not of our old Adamic nature, but of the righteousness of God. The Holy Spirit produces through us God’s righteousness. “We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them” (Eph. 2:10). The imputed righteousness becomes the basis for a righteousness imparted through us by the Holy Spirit.
mattfivefour
Well-Known Member
Well put, Mary. Thank you.
Great to be back, and wonderful discussions going on in my absence. So nice to have a place to fellowship with others who are too heavenly minded, HAHAHA! We have some good talks here, like being in the fellowship hall after supper, LOL. Thank You all for your prayers. As always, Love in Christ, Lenraff