Keep in mind only a handful of muslim countries are part of the EZ alliance.
Reasons Ezek 38-39 comes before Tribulation
- Thread starter RandallB
- Start date
JoyJoyJoy
I Shall Not Be Moved
Huh...I thought the majority of Muslims would be killed in the EZ war.
I never thought about the other muslim countries of the world. Good point.
When the 4 horsemen ride, I imagine they will kill off a good number of muslims...I have always *thought* the countries of the world would be affected equally...about the same percentage killed off in each nation. But I am not sure that is Biblical. Something to chew on.
daygo
Well-Known Member
I know but like I said God will make himself known with all people's not some there are other things like for example imo only this could be my thinking 39 v 28 God will bring all his people, not most, all his people and possibly be the feast of Trumpets as prophecy, there is more but too much to go into here.
Indonesia is one of the largest Muslim countries in the world. I don't believe all Muslim's will be killed except for the ones who take part in the Gog-Magog attack. There belief system will most certainly be challenged when they see that the God of the Jews is protecting them and not Allah. That will be a sight won't it?
Look at this list, and see how many muslims will not be involved in EZ 38
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/muslim-population-by-country
daygo
Well-Known Member
Yes I know Andy and thanks, but like I said previously only my opinion and can be 100%wrong but it says fire will come down on those in the coastlands, where the phenomenon of spontaneous combustion may happen and will destroy the Muslim religion.
We may not lose the religion, but I do believe the religion itself will lose it's power over the world and hopefully it's follower's. God is doing a mighty work with Muslims all over the middle east, one can only hope he's doing the same with the rest of the followers of Islam. Making the aftermath of Ezekiel 38 cause those to stubborn to leave Islam wish it's follower's had never got it in their heads to go after Israel in the first place.
usoutpost31
Well-Known Member
I mean, they're not going to enter into this thing just so that he can break it.
What I'm asking is, what is the practical purpose of Israel entering this covenant if every impediment and external threat has already been removed.
I've always looked at the AC's covenant as being necessary. That Israel wouldn't be able to carry out their sacrifices without it. That would be the significant part of him breaking the covenant; causing the sacrifice to cease (Dan 9:27). He has the authority or they gave him some measure of control over it.
I don't see Israel making a covenant with this man, unless they need to.
usoutpost31
Well-Known Member
It may.
I'm not looking to disprove that idea, I just don't find it to be a settled matter.
IMO, still a case to be made for it being a Tribulation hour event.
I'm thinking the AC does this to appease the rest of what's left of the Muslims and of course the rest of the world, if you'll notice Ezekiel 38 is not the only war in Ezekiel, then of course there's Psalm 83, the distruction of Damascus in Isaiah, the fall of the temple mount in Obediah and the prophecy about Elam which is Persia in Jeremiah, all of which Israel wins, add to that, the wins they've had in our lifetime and you have an entire world that is terrified of Israel. By the time the AC brings the treaty to Israel, the world itself is shaking in their boots afraid to look at them cross-eyed. Israel is probably telling the world leaders, we'll do as we please and just try to stop us if you think you can. So, it's just mho and I'm not dogmatic about it, but I believe, since he will break it three and a half years later, that treaty is more to put the minds of the world leaders at ease, than it is to protect Israel.
...also need to consider the Pslam 83 war which I believe is a a precursor to the Gog war. They have different motivations though. I think Psalm 83 --> Gog --> Treaty --> Trib. All very interesting to contemplate!
athenasius
Well-Known Member
I think basically the remaining Muslims are dealing with a shock-- watching both Turkey which is a large Sunni population and the former head of the Muslim world under the Ottoman empire as well as Iran-- the Shia muslim group (there are other Sunnis but they are the bulk) get their comeuppance at the hands of the God of the Jews. Since there are other Muslims going in with that invasion (Sudan, Libya plus the "and others with you") along with the areas of Magog that became historically muslim such as some of the "stans" it may actually take out quite a swathe of the other muslim groups as well.
That has got to be a blow. I remember reading some historical analysis (but I am making an effort to quit saying authors), in which she detailed the way that muslims react to increasing numbers and influence. When they feel weak and threatened, they behave.
I'm of the opinion that after Ez 38 the Muslim world that remains alive won't be feeling all that feisty.
Then there is the consideration held by some good theologians that may see the Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83 happening just in advance of the Ez 38 war and that is a definite possibility-- that would take out a LOT of the local circle of largely muslim enemies. Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Gaza and the West Bank to name a few. Egypt and the Abraham Accords groups are inclined to be friendly to Israel but they could turn on them if they felt it was safe to do so. After Ezek 38 I suspect they wouldn't feel it safe.
That leaves the far eastern muslims such as Indonesia, plus perhaps Pakistan, any other "stans" that stayed home, and the like counting up the losses to the Muslim world (the Ummah as they term it) in general that it leaves them rather disheartened and unlikely to attack -- I'm sure they will feel like fighting the AC and they may well be part of the Kings of the East, at the end.
Whatever it is, there is no mention of any real opposition to Israel rebuilding the Temple by the midpoint of the Trib which argues the point for me, that the muslim world is either so appalled or so terrified by Israel's God knocking out their Allah that they don't interfere.
Tall Timbers
Imperfect but forgiven
Sometimes I wonder if the agreement isn't more for the rest of the world than for an Israel that has become powerful in the eyes of the world.
Len
Well-Known Member
will the church be here when God starts dealing with Israel by saving them from an invasion by Gog or is this a "gap" theory thing?
daygo
Well-Known Member
Well said athanasius some good points there, whatever it is I think the Muslims will be completely gone at the ezekiel war.
Released
Member
The biggest thing about the Gog Magog invasion is to pave the way for the Antichrist to sign the seven year treaty with Israel, so this will be a pre-trib, post rapture deal. Meaning that sometime after the rapture (could take months or a year or longer) the OWG is in formation after the global economic collapse, and Russia is gearing up to attack Israel since their assets are diminished after the Ukraine invasion.
This also destroys Islam's claims of legitimacy. After God destroys the Russia/Middle Eastern coalition, the Antichrist steps in to approve the Third Temple construction along with the seven year deal, all while Israel is burning those weapons into the midpoint. How convenient is that?
This also destroys Islam's claims of legitimacy. After God destroys the Russia/Middle Eastern coalition, the Antichrist steps in to approve the Third Temple construction along with the seven year deal, all while Israel is burning those weapons into the midpoint. How convenient is that?
athenasius
Well-Known Member
I think from the wording of Ezekiel, 38 and 39 that the Christians are already removed. God states in that passage that his primary purposes are to make himself known to Israel, and to make himself known among the Gentile nations.
A lot of theologians also look at the concept that God is either dealing with the Jews, or dealing with the church but not both at the same time.
The gap that you mention may be a gap between the time of the rapture, and the time of the beginning of the tribulation, which is when the covenant is signed. A lot of theologians speculate, that the Gog Magog war occurs during that gap.
But not all of them do, some think it happens during the tribulation.
There is no particular reason why the Gog Magog war has to happen during the tribulation, or at a gap point between the Rapture and the Tribulation but there is that indicator that I mentioned that suggests we are out of here before it gets going.
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Agree, but it would be awesome to be here and watch God defeat Israel’s attackers.
Tall Timbers
Imperfect but forgiven
That's kind of the main reason I've hoped deep down in my heart that it would happen before the Rapture. It would sure be an awesome sign for those of us watching and waiting!