Will The World See Saints Change and Go Up?

Changeditall

When the roll is called up yonder I'll be there.
That's for certain.
The thing I'm wondering is how long after the twinkle of change before the saint goes up? Paul says we will be changed in a twinkling but he doesn't mention ascending at the same time. It seems there could be a certain amount of time the saints could be seen in their glorified bodies. Maybe long enough to tell the left behinds we weren't taken by aliens.
 

Changeditall

When the roll is called up yonder I'll be there.
I would say generally no as a twinkling is very quick. However, in some situations it would be noticed. If I were at work and directly speaking with an unbeliever and the rapture occurred then they would likely see me vanish.
But perhaps you are changed in a twinkling before their eyes but you didn't ascend at the same time. Or if you do you can be seen going up until you disappear like when the disciples watched Jesus go up and Elisha watched Elijah.
 

Changeditall

When the roll is called up yonder I'll be there.
I expect 3 perspectives, The raptured - they see each other transformed,

the unbelieving world - the raptured just vanish,

And the 2 witnesses who die during the trib and the world sees them get up and soar up into the clouds.
Anything else would be like the 2 witnesses and according to the Lord's purposes as a witness for or against those who see it.

Agree. Absent from the body is to be with the Lord. Here one second, gone the next nano second.

Wether we leave our clothes behind is irrelevant to me because I know I will be clothed in white.
Yes but we won't be absent from the body we will have a new body and Jesus calls us up.
 

Changeditall

When the roll is called up yonder I'll be there.
If God is about to give people over to delusion because they love unrighteousness, maybe they won't see us go up. Maybe not even our clothes will remain. Then they can choose to believe whatever they will.

Maybe they will witness us vanishing but not ascending or being changed. Even seeing a person disappear should cause them to look for the truth, but God still gives them free will to choose.

...makes me think of why we've never completely uncovered Noah's Ark-- then people would *have* to believe, which wouldnt be the same thing as faith.

Interesting to wonder about until we someday know!
Yes it is indeed. Also even if the left behind saw it happen and we could tell them aliens didn't do it the Bible is clear that some people are so hard hearted even if they see someone rise from the dead they won't believe.
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
First Corinthians 15: 50-52
Now this I say , brethern, that flesh and
blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God ;
neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall
not all sleep, but we shall all be changed ,

In a moment , in a twinkling of an eye ,
at the last trump: for the trumpet shall
sound, and the dead shall be raised
incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


WOW!!!
That is pretty exciting and intense!
More importantly , it is 100% true for those
in Christ .

Those who are alive will be "changed" in a
twinkling of an eye.
In Greek the phrase literally means
"an atom of time" referring to the least divisible
period , or instantaneously.
And the word "changed" is the Greek word allasso , which means an exchange of one thing
for another.
In this case , it would be corruptible for incorruptible , so as to inherit the kingdom of God.

Therefore I conclude that no mere human eye
of those left behind will be able to witness/see
the Church/Bride of Christ/ Body of Christ
being instantaneously removed from earth.
 

Changeditall

When the roll is called up yonder I'll be there.
The point I'm trying to make is 1Corinthians 15:50-52 is focused on the saint being changed. It doesn't say taken up in a twinkling. Therefore I believe according to the other scripture references it's reasonable to think the left behinds could witness the rapture.
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
The point I'm trying to make is 1Corinthians 15:50-52 is focused on the saint being changed. It doesn't say taken up in a twinkling. Therefore I believe according to the other scripture references it's reasonable to think the left behinds could witness the rapture.
Those in Christ that are alive during that time
will be changed within that twinkling.
There will be no delay.
The Scriptures do not offer a delay nor do they present this absolutely wonderful event as a
visual oppurtunity to witness to the lost.
That is to say , the Rapture itself will not be a witness. After the fact , that is a different scenario.

Seeing doesn't always equate believing.

This is a good thread you started. Gets one
thinking!
:)
 
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pixelpusher

Well-Known Member
And the word "changed" is the Greek word allasso , which means an exchange of one thing
for another.
Wonder if "changed" there could mean changed from corruptible bodies to incorruptible, but also location or place. It says we will meet the Lord in the air. I'd like that to take a little longer than an atomos of time, when we will also be reunited with those gone before. How many meetings have you ever had that were over almost before they began? I could see us going up visibly. Or not. I don't know.

However it works out, it will be right.
 

PortWen

Member
The point I'm trying to make is 1Corinthians 15:50-52 is focused on the saint being changed. It doesn't say taken up in a twinkling. Therefore I believe according to the other scripture references it's reasonable to think the left behinds could witness the rapture.
I also watched that sermon he gave and it’s the first time I’ve ever heard that viewpoint. It’s certainly made think..and believe me I’ve been thinking about it a lot. Based on the way he explained it, I agree it’s possible ……but as with so much concerning the rapture I don’t believe we can be absolutely certain.

it’s frustrating on one level, to have so many questions, and yet it’s also making me anticipate it even more. :)
 

GotGrace

Well-Known Member
It's hard to say what the Rapture might look like. Paul describes it for believers but for unbelievers who might witness this? There's no indication of their perspective.

I would say that your examples (and I would add Elijah) happened that way because God wants people to bear witness. So if the world does see an ascension, it will also be because God wants them to see it.

The popular conception of it (people vanishing into thin air, leaving their clothes behind, and no one knows what happened); that one I have the hardest time accepting. Yes, it could happen that way, but there is no passage of Scripture that describes a scene like that.
The rapture will be so quick that I don’t think the human eye can capture it. Remember we serve a very powerful God and He can make the twinkling of an eye quicker than anything we know. The folks left behind will wonder what happened to us. I don’t believe at all they will see our ascension. :angel
 

PortWen

Member
The rapture will be so quick that I don’t think the human eye can capture it. Remember we serve a very powerful God and He can make the twinkling of an eye quicker than anything we know. The folks left behind will wonder what happened to us. I don’t believe at all they will see our ascension. :angel
But the whole point he made is that the “twinkling of an eye” refers to the physical change from mortal to immortal, not the actual ascent into the clouds. I mean, they could occur simultaneously in which case it would be too fast for a human to detect. But what if the change happens first, and then the ascent follows?

When I heard that idea, I thought about being with my husband, (who is unsaved) …. say we’re in a conversation, and suddenly he sees me change in front of his eyes, instantaneously, from this aging, greying, middle aged woman to absolute perfection! Wow! And then suddenly I’m gone. Or he sees me rise… I don’t know….
would he see me vanish through the ceiling? or would I just disappear? Poof!

The more I think about it, the more convoluted it becomes!

P.S. I once read an explanation of what the twinkling of an eye means and it’s the speed at which light hits your eye and is reflected…sooooo fast…pretty much unquantifiable.
 

usoutpost31

Well-Known Member
The rapture will be so quick that I don’t think the human eye can capture it. Remember we serve a very powerful God and He can make the twinkling of an eye quicker than anything we know. The folks left behind will wonder what happened to us. I don’t believe at all they will see our ascension. :angel
It is interesting about the Resurrection of the saints / Rapture. Paul seems to present it as a sequence of events, rather than something that occurs instantaneously.

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

First the Lord descends, with the trumpet call, then the dead in Christ rise.

So one can argue this event is already underway, before our feet have left the ground. Only after that, are we caught up with them.

The Rapture is always presented from the believer's point of view. Paul wants us to know what we can expect to see and experience. It makes me wonder if we(as believers) do indeed see the Lord descending, hear the trumpet call and the dead in Christ rising. Even before we ourselves are caught up.

If that is the case, that we actually see 1 Thess 4:13-18 occurring just as Paul describes, then I don't think we just vanish. The issue I have is in that scenario(where believers just disappear); it means that Jesus has descended, the trumpet call has sounded, the dead in Christ have risen, but we're unaware of all this until the very moment we are caught up.

That's the scenario that I have doubts about.
 
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